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Day 6 Of Witness Testimony In Ex-Cop's Murder Trial; Defense Cross-Examine ER Doctor Who Tried To Save George Floyd; Prosecutions Questions Doctor Who Tried To Save George Floyd; Prosecution Questions Minneapolis Police Chief. Aired 12p-12:30p ET
Aired April 05, 2021 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And that points to a possible respiratory problem, right?
DR. BRADFORD WANKHEDE LANGENFELD, ER PHYSICIAN WHO ATTENDED TO GOERGE FLOYD: It can, yes.
NELSON: And that increase in a carbon dioxide from a 35 to 45 to over 100 that takes some period of time in order to climb that high.
LANGENFELD: Yes, it can happen relatively quickly depending on how severe the ventilation problem is. But--
NELSON: But generally it could take 30, 40 even an hour to climb that high.
LANGENFELD: It could take that long, it could take much less time. Yes sir.
NELSON: The use of Fentanyl, do you know that to attribute to high carbon dioxide levels?
LANGENFELD: It can cause high carbon dioxide levels because it depresses the ventilation or the breathing.
NELSON: So when someone ingests Fentanyl, it can cause them to feel very sleepy because of an increased carbon dioxide level. Agree?
LANGENFELD: Correct.
NELSON: And that's one of the reasons ultimately that Fentanyl is so dangerous because it suppresses the respiratory system. Agree?
LANGENFELD: The primary reason it is so dangerous. Yes.
NELSON: Now, you testified that when the paramedics gave their report to you, they did not give you any reference as to potential drug use. Correct?
LANGENFELD: Correct.
NELSON: They did not tell you that they had - administered Narcan or Naloxone during their care. Correct?
LANGENFELD: Correct.
NELSON: And during the course of your care of Mr. Floyd, you did not administer Narcan or Naloxone. Did you?
LANGENFELD: No.
NELSON: And when you talk about those drugs that are immediately able to reverse the effects, that's what that does. Narcan reverses the effects of Fentanyl toxicity. Agreed?
LANGENFELD: Correct.
NELSON: When someone has a high carbon dioxide level that causes that person to have a sensation of shortness of breath, agreed.
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: And that can happen to a person even without stress complicating their body. Right, that respiratory, that feeling of an inability to breathe?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: Are you familiar with the impact of taking certain narcotics interacting early rectally?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: And that ultimately can provide a more powerful or rapid onset of an impact, right?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: Simply because a person has a history of chronic opiate abuse. Does that mean that Fentanyl can't kill them?
LANGENFELD: No.
NELSON: When someone is hyperventilating, anxious and hyperventilating, they're actually decreasing their co2 by doing that, correct?
LANGENFELD: Correct.
NELSON: Some of the considerations that you have to take also would be the potential occlusion of a coronary artery, right?
LANGENFELD: Yes, in cases of cardiac arrest, yes.
NELSON: And someone who has greater than a 75 percent occlusion of the right coronary artery that poses a particular risk of fatal ventricular cardiac arrhythmia does it not?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Sidebar conversation here in the trial of officer, former officer Derek Chauvin, a medical testimony from the emergency room doctor who treated George Floyd when the paramedics brought him to the hospital in Hennepin County that's Minneapolis back in May.
The doctor Dr. Langford on the stand is the doctor who pronounced him dead. Our legal analyst Laura Coates is with us as we watch this play out. The cross examination Laura, just beginning. Cedric Alexander is also with us. I'm sorry, sir. I didn't know you were there.
Laura Coates as we go through this cross examination now that defense attorney has tried to raise some doubts about why George Floyd died, could have been fed on his system. I wanted you take away from the questioning just there.
LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this is actually - they're actually trying to mount a better defense and we've seen them be able to do so in the last week. They're trying to suggest that Fentanyl can also mimic the same things that George Floyd was experiencing shortness of breath, the failure of the respiratory system.
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In fact, the ER doctor has been able to beat to say that Fentanyl can also lead to asphyxia. Drug use can also lead to asphyxia because it can also mimic that feeling of not being able to breathe. It's why it's so dangerous.
They also got him to talk about and he's very matter of fact in his presentation, you don't get the idea that he has to be better in the teeth poll to get the information. Now he's being very forthright about that and being very objective in his presentation of evidence, which buttress this credibility for a jury.
But you have very powerful testimony now from somebody again. No agenda was the person to declare George Floyd dead saying that, yes, Fentanyl could be one of the things that mimic the same sort of shortness of breath.
Now whether that's going to be able to blow out of the water, what Minnesota law requires which it is doesn't have to be the sole cause of death. It must be a substantial causal factor of death, there can be many.
KING: And so that Cedric Alexander is what we're watching play out. That's the drama of the trial, the prosecution trying to make the case through this medical testimony and the testimony may be about to resume. I'm just going to watch for one second, here we go. Let's go back into the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NELSON: Only a physician can declare a person death, correct?
LANGENFELD: Depends where you're practicing.
NELSON: In the state of Minnesota?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: A paramedic can't declare a person dead.
LANGENFELD: No, not without consultation with a physician.
NELSON: So just - based on your treatment again of Mr. Floyd. Mr. Floyd, based on these tests that you did have an elevated co2 level, correct?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: And that co2 level was exceptional, considered to be exceptionally high, correct?
LANGENFELD: Correct.
NELSON: And you did not in the course of your consideration provide not Naloxone or Narcan?
LANGENFELD: No.
NELSON: And it would be, is it fair to say that the administration of Narcan if you do not have opiates in your system is a safe procedure?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
NELSON: And if you do have opiates in your system, the administration of Narcan could be life changing. Life saving?
LANGENFELD: Yes. Not in this case.
NELSON: Prior to the - but again the paramedics also based on your information did not administer Narcan.
LANGENFELD: Correct. Can I make a clarification?
NELSON: There's no question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wish--
NELSON: Basic. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't a sneaky plan on - if they wish.
NELSON: And you would agree that Mr. Floyd arrived at HCMC at approximately 8:53 if we have seen evidence previously.
LANGENFELD: That sounds correct.
NELSON: I have no further questions, John.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Blackwell.
JERRY BLACKWELL, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Thank you, your honor. For starters, Dr. Langenfeld, there was an answer you wanted to clarify. Please do so.
LANGENFELD: Only to state that Narcan administering Narcan to someone who potentially suffered a Fentanyl overdose. Once that individual is in cardiac arrest, the administration of Narcan would provide no benefit.
BLACKWELL: And Mr. Floyd was obviously in cardiac arrest. Correct. You were asked questions just now about whether Fentanyl works by causing someone to feel very sleepy. Remember that discussion?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Did the paramedics tell you that Mr. Floyd was ever asleep or sleepy or anything that sounds like sleep?
LANGENFELD: The report that I received that was that the patient Mr. Floyd was unresponsive on their arrival and did not have a pulse. And so there was no report that he had been sleepy or difficult to arouse per se.
BLACKWELL: You asked quite a bit of - quite a number of questions about the carbon dioxide content in the blood gases. First off, if a person is suffering from hypoxia, that is oxygen deficiency, is that an explanation for heightened carbon dioxide content in the blood?
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LANGENFELD: It can be in severe cases.
BLACKWELL: In this case, do you find that the carbon dioxide reading from Mr. Floyd is really all that significant?
LANGENFELD: I felt that it was weak evidence in support of what I was thinking at the time. What's difficult in cases of cardiac arrest is once someone has been in cardiac arrest for an extended period of time. The - essentially the blood gas that I obtained could be consistent with cardiac arrest from any number of causes you, you expect the PH to be low.
During cardiac - I'll provide a little bit of explanation on that during cardiac arrest, there's no blood flow to the tissues. Therefore there's no oxygen getting into the tissues. Therefore the cells will die.
They'll release hydrogen ions which lower the PH creating an acidic environment that released lactate which complicates that further. Because the person's heart has stopped from whatever cause they'll no longer be breathing either and so you would expect that their co2 to be high. Again it can vary a little bit depending on the cause. But in my estimation, the blood gas in this case wasn't very strong evidence for one cause over another as far as the etiology of the rest.
BLACKWELL: And it was simply consistent with the fact of cardiac arrest.
LANGENFELD: Correct.
BLACKWELL: The fact that the heart has stopped.
LANGENFELD: Correct. And I felt that the high co2 may have suggested a respiratory cause.
BLACKWELL: That you were asked questions about somebody administering narcotics enter rectally. Remember that those questions?
LANGENFELD: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Did you get any indication that Mr. Floyd had administered narcotics interactively?
LANGENFELD: I had no information to suggest that.
BLACKWELL: Dr. Langenfeld, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, doctor, you may step down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, your honor. Your honor, the state calls Chief Medaria Arradondo.
CHIEF MEDARIA ARRADONDO, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony about to give me the truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And before we begin if you give us your full name, spelling each of your names.
ARRADONDO: Yes, your honor. Madaria Arradondo, first name is spelled M-E-D-A-R-I-A last name is A-R-R-A-D-O-N-D-O.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Schleicher?
STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Thank you, your honor. Sir, what is your current role?
ARRADONDO: My current role is Chief of the Minneapolis Police Department.
SCHLEICHER: How long have you held that position?
ARRADONDO: For approximately three years.
SCHLEICHER: And as Chief of the Minneapolis Police Department, are you responsible for overseeing the operations of the entire Minneapolis Police Department? ARRADONDO: Yes, I am.
SCHLEICHER: And that's the highest ranking role at the Minneapolis Police Department. Is that correct?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: Now, sir, I'd like you to first share a little bit about yourself with us. How old are you?
ARRADONDO: 54 years old.
SCHLEICHER: In what city do you live?
ARRADONDO: And--
SCHLEICHER: Where are you from originally?
ARRADONDO: Minneapolis.
SCHLEICHER: Where did you go to high school?
ARRADONDO: Pre-Minneapolis Rosewood High School.
SCHLEICHER: Right. And have you ever lived outside of the twin cities Minneapolis area?
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ARRADONDO: I went away for college for a couple of years in Michigan. Yes.
SCHLEICHER: Where in Michigan did you go?
ARRADONDO: Hancock Michigan.
SCHLEICHER: Which school?
ARRADONDO: Which is now called Finlandia University. I am sorry, your honor Finlandia University.
SCHLEICHER: And what is the highest level of education you've attained?
ARRADONDO: I received my master's degree.
SCHLEICHER: What degree did you receive in Hancock, Michigan?
ARRADONDO: That degree was a criminal justice degree.
SCHLEICHER: After you completed your college studies, you returned to the twin cities area.
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: And is that when you first joined the Minneapolis police department?
ARRADONDO: Prior to that, I had worked as a community service officer at the Minneapolis St. Paul Airport Police Department.
SCHLEICHER: What years did you do that?
ARRADONDO: I believe that was from 1987 to 1989.
SCHLEICHER: And then in 1989, did you join the Minneapolis police department?
ARRADONDO: I did.
SCHLEICHER: In what capacity?
ARRADONDO: I started my career as a Minneapolis police cadet and then was hired as a Minneapolis police officer that year.
SCHLEICHER: And chief why did you decide to become a police officer?
ARRADONDO: I've been very fortunate to come from a city of very resilient, very welcoming, proud, proud people here in the city of Minneapolis. And my dear parents taught all of my siblings and me about the service of love.
And so I've been very fortunate to eventually join the Minneapolis police department and give back to the very community, the very city that embraced me and has been so good to me.
SCHLEICHER: You familiar with the motto of the Minneapolis police department?
ARRADONDO: Yes, I am.
SCHLEICHER: What is it?
ARRADONDO: And that is to protect with courage and to serve with compassion.
SCHLEICHER: And what does that motto mean?
ARRADONDO: We are often times the first face of government that our communities will see. And we will oftentimes meet them at their worst moments and so the badge that I wear in that members of the Minneapolis police department where it means a lot.
Because the first time that we interact with our community members may be the only time that they have an interaction. And so that has to count for something.
And so it's very important for us to make sure that we're meeting our community in that space, treating them with dignity, being their guardians and in representing - and all of the men and women that came before us who served so proudly on this department.
SCHLEICHER: And sometimes you have to protect with courage and you have to use force, is that correct?
ARRADONDO: At times, yes. As a police officer, you will have to use force.
SCHLEICHER: And sometimes serving with compassion means to understand when force is not required.
ARRADONDO: Then rephrase.
SCHLEICHER: What does it mean to then serve with compassion?
ARRADONDO: To serve with compassion to me means to understand and authentically accept that we see our neighbor as ourselves. We value one another, we see our community as necessary for our existence. And so that's with serving with compassion means to me.
SCHLEICHER: Then you've told us a little bit about your educational background, I'd like you to share with all of us a little bit more about your specific law enforcement training. You mentioned the academy. Is that where you received your law enforcement specific training?
ARRADONDO: Yes, it is.
SCHLEICHER: Please describe how that training occurred?
ARRADONDO: I was a member of the first Minneapolis police cadet program. And along with many other candidates, we received training both academic training on the laws of the State of Minnesota.
We received training as it relates to everything from driving and defensive tactics, community relations. And so we also there's post requirements of Minnesota post officer standards and training to receive our license.
There was a test that we had to take then. There was also scenario based training as well to grade and assess how we perform during that training in the academy.
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ARRADONDO: And so that was - that was part of that important training that I received along with my candidates at the academy.
SCHLEICHER: And that was the - that was the very first Minneapolis police academy.
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: And a trainee at the academy is that trainee referred to as a cadet?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: In your employment, you've been continuously employed as a Minneapolis in the Minneapolis police department since was at 1989. ARRADONDO: That is crimson.
SCHLEICHER: Has the academy changed since you first were a cadet back in 1989?
ARRADONDO: It has. And while I certainly believe that at the time back in 1989, that training was important. Like any police department, we should not be monolithic. Our communities are not monolithic, our training should evolve. We should be focused on what are national best practices.
And so the training that our recruits and cadets get today and rightfully so is far better than the training that I received those years ago.
SCHLEICHER: We'll circle back to that a little bit later. You also mentioned that you take post credits, is that right?
ARRADONDO: Yes, that is correct.
SCHLEICHER: And post stands for Peace Officer Standards and Training?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: What is the requirement for post training? How many courses are you required to take in a given period?
ARRADONDO: Yes, every sworn peace officer in the State of Minnesota received their license through the post peace officer standards and training board. And so post will change up what some of those requirements are from time to time.
But some of the ones that I think of right now would be crisis intervention training. They're certainly defensive tactics training, there's now a form of procedural justice training that is required.
And so Minneapolis police officers receive that mandated training. But we're also very fortunate that we're able to receive additional training above and beyond what is required of the post board.
SCHLEICHER: And you personally participate in this training in order to maintain your post license.
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: Chief, you began your career in 1989. You're now the chief of the police department fair to say you've had many roles within that department. Is that correct?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: At this time, I'd like to publish exhibit 209, if I may? And we'll leave that up. If we may, while you testify. What was the first position you held within the department after you completed your academy training?
ARRADONDO: I was sworn in as a Minneapolis police officer.
SCHLEICHER: We've heard that term sworn officer before can you please explain to the jury what that what that means?
ARRADONDO: Sworn officer after you complete the required educational requirements. And certainly after you complete your performance measures at the academy, then you are eventually sworn in at a location and traditionally our city clerk has been there and you take an oath.
And you're sworn in as an official member of the Minneapolis police department but also as a city of Minneapolis employee. And you search for employment with the city then.
SCHLEICHER: And what were your duties as a sworn police officer that ran for the city of Minneapolis?
ARRADONDO: Our primary duties were to be a 911 responder to work in a geographical area of the City of Minneapolis and a district at a precinct and respond to 911 calls on a given shift.
SCHLEICHER: Are those also called calls for service?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: And as a - as a patrol officer at that time well, how long did you remain a patrol officer?
ARRADONDO: Approximately five years or so.
SCHLEICHER: And can you tell the jury what geographic district you served as a patrol officer?
ARRADONDO: Yes, I served for a short time in the third precinct. And then I think the bulk of that time in the Minneapolis fourth precinct, which is located in north Minneapolis.
SCHLEICHER: During that time period those five years as a patrol officer, did you ever have occasion to arrest a suspect?
ARRADONDO: Yes, I did.
SCHLEICHER: I bought a non compliance suspect.
ARRADONDO: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: You've had to place handcuffs on someone who is not compliant.
ARRADONDO: That is correct. Yes.
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SCHLEICHER: Approximately, would you care to guess how many times?
ARRADONDO: I'm sure several. Sure, sir. SCHLEICHER: This is something that's fairly regularly - a fairly regular occurrence as a police officer as a patrol officer, is that right?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: You've had to be in situations where you've had to use force. Is that right?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: Have you also been in situations where you've had to de escalate or talk someone into compliance?
ARRADONDO: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: And is that a regular part of your job as a patrol officer?
ARRADONDO: Yes, it is.
SCHLEICHER: Even in from 1989 to approximately 19 or I'm sorry, 1994?
ARRADONDO: Yes.
SCHLEICHER: Then after serving this period of time as a patrol officer, what was your next position at MPD?
ARRADONDO: And approximately-- I believe in 1997 I was then promoted to the rank of sergeant in the Minneapolis police department.
SCHLEICHER: And what do you have to do to be promoted to the rank of sergeant? What are the requirements?
ARRADONDO: It is a civil service test that you take. And you have to successfully pass that and receive a grade for that. And I'm trying to recall if there was an assessment center that was also part of that testing process.
But there are a number of years that you have to at least have served as a police officer before you can take the sergeant's test in promotion.
SCHLEICHER: What is the role of a sergeant in the Minneapolis police department?
ARRADONDO: Sergeants role and I've often said it is the most influential role in the police department.
SCHLEICHER: How so?
ARRADONDO: It's most influential because you have the most proximity to the men and women who are out there serving in the community. You're there for them at the roll calls, you are a mentor, and you give them guidance. They are going to see you far off and then they would ever see that chief of police, for example. And you set the tone in the attitude. And so that's really a very significant role within the Minneapolis police department.
SCHLEICHER: That's a first line supervisory position, correct?
ARRADONDO: Yes, it is.
SCHLEICHER: And sergeants are people that rank within MPD would serve in a variety of jobs are functions. Is that correct?
ARRADONDO: That is correct.
SCHLEICHER: And how did you serve as a sergeant when you were first promoted?
ARRADONDO: I served as an investigator with the property crimes unit at that time.
SCHLEICHER: How many people approximately did you supervise?
ARRADONDO: At that time I did not supervise any - I worked as a detective or investigator alongside other detectives.
SCHLEICHER: OK. How long did you hold that position?
ARRADONDO: Approximately two years.
SCHLEICHER: And after that?
ARRADONDO: Then I served as a sergeant in our Minneapolis police department internal affairs unit.
SCHLEICHER: Describe what a sergeant in internal affairs does?
ARRADONDO: Sergeant internal affairs is responsible for investigating cases of misconduct involving Minneapolis police department employees, and fact finding, preparing reports and ultimately submitting those to their supervisor.
SCHLEICHER: Can those investigations include inappropriate uses of force or excessive force?
ARRADONDO: Yes, they can.
SCHLEICHER: And have you ever evaluated an excessive force case in internal affairs context?
ARRADONDO: I believe I have yes.
SCHLEICHER: How long did you serve as a sergeant in internal affairs?
ARRADONDO: I served in that position of about two years as well.
SCHLEICHER: And then what did you do? ARRADONDO: Then I was promoted to the rank of lieutenant.
SCHLEICHER: Now what was required of you to promote to lieutenant?
ARRADONDO: That also required taking a civil service exam. And I believe certainly at that time an assessment going through an assessment center, which comprised of scenarios and different type of performance measures for that position.
SCHLEICHER: Is it true that a lieutenant is to a higher level of management above the first line sergeants?
ARRADONDO: Yes, lieutenants are considered managers within the organization.
SCHLEICHER: And what were your duties as lieutenant?
ARRADONDO: I served for a time as overseeing the - at that time--
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