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Inside Politics

Chauvin Trial Jury Deliberating For A Second Day; Former Pres. Bush Describes GOP As "Isolationist, Protectionist, And, To A Certain Extent, Nativist"; One Dead, Two Injured In Shooting At Long island Grocery Store; Former VP Walter Mondale Dies At 93. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 20, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Faded Derek Chauvin now rests with a 12-person jury. The jury is diverse in both age and race, six wide jurors, four black jurors, two are multiracial. The youngest jurors are in their 20s, the oldest in her 60s.

Joining our conversation now Melissa Gomez, she's the President of MMG Jury Consulting. Melissa, thank you for your time today. First, when you just -- when you look at the composition of the jury, the age breakdown, the racial breakdown, ethnic breakdown, is there anything in that in your history of doing this that gives any clue, any science to it help or hurt?

MELISSA GOMEZ, PRESIDENT, MMG JURY CONSULTING: Well, it absolutely helps in that more diversity on the panel. And we're not just looking at racial diversity or age diversity, or even gender diversity but it's also the diversity of the different perspectives that the jurors come in from. We have people who come from different walks of life, different jobs, there's a chemist and people more in the business end but also someone who has a background in psychology.

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And so, the diverse thinking usually leads to much more robust deliberations, more thorough evaluation of the evidence because you have so many different minds and so many different perspectives who are looking at the evidence.

KING: So if you were involved in this case, let's say you were advising the prosecution, we know the jurors and the pre -- you know, before the trial, prospective jurors are given this questionnaire about police contacts. You want to know, do people have a favorable opinion of police? Do people have a negative opinion of police? Have they had some experience in their life that would sway them one way or another?

We know on this particular jury, one is a niece of a police officer, another juror wrote in the questionnaire, the police do a lot. I would trust the police. So if you're the prosecution, and we did hear the prosecutor say this is not an anti police trial, it's actually a pro- police trial, we're trying to weed out a bad cop here. How do you go about that knowing that some people in the jury do have some positive relationship with police?

GOMEZ: I think the way they did it is the way that it should be done. And essentially what they did was they prosecuted Derek Chauvin using the police, using other people from the police force and testimony from firefighters so that when you take, you know, the tension between Black Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter, the prosecution essentially showed that this is a case that is prosecuted through blue lives, and that these people are rejecting Derek Chauvin as one of them.

KING: And come at this from the defense perspective, when you heard Mr. Nelson making both his presentation of witnesses, but then his closing argument. You have to make a decision as the counsel whether the prosecution or the defense, but in this case, in the defense, are you trying to argue to everybody or are there are one or two jurors that during the trial or based on their questionnaires, you believe are more open to you? What did he do in your mind that was aimed at swaying a jury -- a juror or two?

GOMEZ: Well, what all he needs to do is convince one person because a unanimous decision is required. So for the prosecution to prevail, they need to convince all 12. What the defense needs to do is just raise enough doubt in one person to cause a hung jury and a hung jury is essentially more obviously a win for the defense because that means there's no conviction. So, in being specific in focusing on causation, the defense really hoped to speak to the more technically-minded jurors in that case in order to challenge them as to whether the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Derek Chauvin's actions that caused George Floyd's death, as opposed to other biological processes that were going on.

KING: Help us with your experience in the age we live in, in the sense that the jury was not sequestered during the trial. The defense asked that they be sequestered, the judge said no, he thought that was over the top. They are sequestered now for the deliberations. One of the issues has been because this is such a high profile case, not only in Minnesota, but around the world is, you know, can you truly be in the smartphone age. They're allowed to have these to keep in touch with their families now that they're sequestered, their smartphones. In the smartphone age, can you have true total sequestration, total news blackout or do you have to allow for people are going to hear some things, you just have to trust that they filter it?

GOMEZ: Yes, I mean, this is absolutely a question of trust. So these jurors were told every day that the important thing, it is critical for their decision to solely be based on the evidence they hear in the courtroom and nothing else, nothing that they get from the outside, no conversations. They are not supposed to be -- they're supposed to be avoiding those news reports that are coming through. And so there is a level of trust that the judge gave to the jurors to abide by that.

I know these jurors, obviously, are well aware of the protests. They're well aware that the news is out there. It's whether or not they're choosing to abide by those instructions from the judge, or if they're looking into it. Of course, if it's found later that any juror was looking at the news, was talking to anyone in a way that could affect their decision, that could result in this trial.

KING: Melissa Gomez, grateful for your important insights at this key moment in the trial. Thank you so much.

GOMEZ: Thank you for having me.

KING: No, thank you.

When we come back, two former Republican presidents, a very different view of where the GOP should go in the next election.

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KING: First last night for Donald Trump's post-presidency life. His first, on camera interview since leaving office three months ago, from Mar-a-Lago with friend and ally Sean Hannity. Most of the conversation, very familiar.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You get impeached for doing nothing wrong, then you get a second impeachment for doing nothing wrong. Getting along with President Putin is a great thing. So we have murderers and rapists coming into our country, and they just walk in it. All of the states that we won were properly run. They're going to rip apart your second amendment.

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KING: By coincidence, we also heard from another former Republican president today, one who makes very clear without naming names that he believes Mr. Trump took the GOP on a wrong turn.

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GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a beautiful country we have and yet it's not beautiful when we can damn call people names and scare people about immigration.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BUSH: It's an easy issue to frighten some of the electorate and I'm trying to have a different kind of voice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, if you were to describe the Republican Party, as you see it today --

BUSH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- how would you describe it? BIDEN: I would describe it as isolationist, protectionist, and to a certain extent, nativist.

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KING: Back with us, Toluse Olorunnipa of the Washington Post. Toluse, just listening there, that is night and day when it comes to perspectives on what the Republican Party should be. Am I right in saying the Trump view currently has more strength than the Bush view?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The Trump view definitely has more strength and George Bush is almost sort of someone who cannot even find himself having a place in the Republican Party as it is currently consistent. President Trump has forcefully taken control of the Republican Party. He has pushed to some of the ideology that was very, you know, desired and parts of the base. And that base has taken over and now we see, you know, Trump's endorsement as one of the hottest political tickets on the right.

If you are not endorsed by President Trump, a lot of these Republicans are finding themselves having to retire or find another line of work. So it's very clear that what President Bush described as isolationist, nativist, protectionist view of politics is winning out on the right. And that's in large part due to Donald Trump's presidency and his willingness to continue pushing some of these ideas even after he's lost office, even after he is now a former president.

Mostly, we do not hear from former presidents very regularly. It's only George Bush did speaking out because he has a book coming out. But it's a rare instance to hear from former presidents. I think, former President Trump is going to be very different. We've already heard from him on a number of different issues almost on a daily basis. He's weighing in on what Joe Biden is doing. And I think that's going to continue to be the case and because of that, his view of the Republican ideology is going to continue to win out, and we'll have to see what that means for the electoral politics of the country. But Trumpism is definitely winning out at the moment.

KING: Right. And to that point, Trumpism to Trump means if you don't agree with me, get out. Listen here where he again airs his grievances against those in the Republican Party who disagree with him.

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TRUMP: The Republicans have to unify, the Democrats are always -- they may have bad policy, but they don't -- you don't have a Romney. You don't have a little Ben Sasse. You don't have these people over there.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Or Lisa Murkowski.

TRUMP: Lisa Murkowski is a disaster. I mean, she's a total disaster.

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KING: You notice that it was Sean Hannity who teed up Lisa Murkowski. The president -- and former president did not mention her first, but that will be one of the big tests next year. There is a Trump aligned candidate challenging Lisa Murkowski in the primary in Alaska. That will be one of the 2022 tests, if you will, of the staying power of Trumpism.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes. And the president's willingness to play ball and to be a unifier is going to be the big question about whether or not he continues to have political potency going forward if he continues to divide the party, if he continues to attack other Republicans, and that leads to electoral losses, like we saw in Georgia in January. And that may be very difficult for him to sort of present himself as the future of the party because we did see the House and the Senate and the White House lost under Trump and in some ways lost under Trumpism.

So if he's not able to unify the party around a single ideology, or at least create a big tent where various Republican members that may not agree with everything that has to do with Trumpism are welcomed, then it may be difficult for the president to find himself as a king maker going forward. So these midterm elections are going to be very key if he finds himself endorsing challengers to incumbents and endorsing primary opponents to popular Republican senators, it can be very difficult for him to see himself continuing to lead the party when he is calling for unity, but at the same -- in the same sentence, you know, attacking some of these Republicans by name and denigrating them -- and denigrating their character.

So, he has a big test ahead of him and the party has a big test ahead of it in terms of what it wants to be going forward. And the midterms are going to really determine what kind of party the Republican Party is into the midterms and into 2024.

KING: He has a unique definition of unity, which (ph) put it that way, it's called loyalty to him. Toluse Olorunnipa, grateful for your reporting and insights. Thanks for hanging with us today as we walk through that story.

And update now on the report of active shooting in a Long Island grocery store. Police say one male has been killed, two others wounded, now at area hospitals but both are conscious, police say. And they're still looking for a suspect. Have identified a person of interest, they believe is the shooter.

Let's bring in CNN's Brynn Gingras back with us who's tracking the investigation. Brynn?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course, you know, we're getting this information more and more as this investigation continues. We just got updated by the Nassau County Police Commissioner there Patrick Ryder, who gave us these details about what happened inside this Stop & Shop, what they know now.

[12:50:00]

And what he told us is that essentially this shooting took place in an upstairs manager's office there at the Stop & Shop that this person of interest was or is an employee. It's not quite clear if that person still worked at the Stop & Shop but several shots were fired, according to witnesses inside that Stop & Shop.

As you said, one person, a 49-year-old, according to the commissioner, is dead, two others injured. They are alert and conscious at area hospitals. And I'm told there's actually a hospital nearby. So thank God for that.

You can see the major police presence there on the scene because they are still looking forward this person of interest. I want you to hear more from the police commissioner about that.

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PATRICK RYDER, NASSAU COUNTY POLICE COMMISSIONER: He did have a small handgun. That is what the witnesses have given to us. And again, we're out there looking for him now. This is a person of interest. That person of interest, we believe is the shooter again, but as we wait, he left the scene.

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GINGRAS: So that person left the scene. As a result, the authorities have shut down schools in that area. They are telling everyone to stay inside their homes as they continue that massive search. We were told there are more than 100 authorities, officers on the ground conducting that search. We were also told, John, at the time of this shooting, inside the Stop & Shop grocery store again, this is in the suburb of New York City, there were more than or couple 100 rather shoppers who were doing their grocery shopping here on a Tuesday late morning or early afternoon. So certainly this is very reminiscent.

Of course, your psyche turns to the incident that we saw in Boulder, Colorado. Of course, we're still working to just get more information, but another shooting that we're talking about here in America, John.

KING: Brynn Gingras, grateful for your hustle throughout the hour on the breaking news. We know you stay on top of it. Thank you so much.

Sad, sad, sad. Up next for us, the U.S. Ambassador to Russia returning home for a visit now just as tensions between Washington and Moscow are on the rise.

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[12:56:20]

KING: Topping our political radar today, the U.S. Ambassador to Russia, John Sullivan, temporarily coming back to the United States for discussions on U.S.-Russia relations. This comes, of course, amid international outrage over the Kremlin's treatment of imprisoned critic Alexei Navalny. Navalny now in the third week of a hunger strike and has been moved to a regional hospital for prisoners. The United States says Russia, quote, will be held accountable by the international community for Navalny's treatment in custody.

Senate Judiciary Committee not long ago wrapping up a hearing on restrictive voting bills. And laws, the state legislators are proposing and that many governors across the country are signing. Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock and GOP Congresswoman -- Congressman, excuse me, Burgess Owens, testifying in front of that committee, both speaking specifically about the controversial new Georgia election law.

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SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): This is a full-fledged assault on voting rights, unlike anything we have seen since the era of Jim Crow.

REP. BURGESS OWENS (R-UT): President Biden said in -- of the Georgia law, this is Jim Crow on steroids. With all due respect, Mr. President, you know better. It's disgusting and offensive to compare the actual voter suppression and violence of that era that we grew up in with a state law that only asked the people show their ID.

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KING: In Montana, the Democratic Party filing a lawsuit just hours after the Governor there, Greg Gianforte signed two bills into law, those bills had restrictions to voting. The laws and same day voter registration and revised accepted IDs required for voting, requiring some voters to use two forms of ID. The lawsuit claims the new laws put unconstitutional burdens on the young, low income, disabled and indigenous voters.

And we end the hour on a sad note. Former Vice President Walter Mondale died yesterday at his home in Minneapolis. Mr. Mondale was 93. Throughout his long career, he remained a champion of liberal causes and the proponent of using the government as an instrument for social progress especially for women, the poor, and minorities. Mondale made histories, the Democratic presidential nominee back in 1984 by naming Geraldine Ferraro as a major party's first female vice presidential candidate.

Mondale-Ferraro then went on to lose that election to Ronald Reagan in a landslide, after Mr. Mondale pledged to raise taxes to tackle growing federal deficits. As Jimmy Carter's vice president in the 1970s, Fritz Mondale, as he was known to friends, did transform the vice presidency from a largely ceremonial position to a true partnership with the president, attending daily intelligence briefings and weekly luncheons with the president and influencing policy on many levels. Vice presidents who followed in his footsteps, including Joe Biden, were indebted this from 2015.

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WALTER MONDALE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, CARTER ADMINISTRATION: One of the things that I told President Carter, I said, if I'm going to help you, in these kinds of assignments, they've got to believe that they're talking to you, we're partners, that I'm not just visitor there.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What you did, though --

MONDALE: Yes. BIDEN: -- by the time it got to President Obama, he didn't even -- I didn't have to ask him that. He'd already made that judgment because you really did modernize the president -- the vice presidency.

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KING: Joe Biden likes to speak of reading Mondale's memo that he wrote to Carter, Mondale and wrote an update for him when he was serving Obama. Before he was vice president, Walter Mondale represented his home state of Minnesota for 12 years in the United States Senate, also served as Minnesota's Attorney General. Whatever your politics are fine, and decent man.

Thanks for joining us today in Inside Politics. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

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