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Brown Family Attorney: Police Now "Redacting" Parts of Body Cam Footage; Brown Family Attorney: Police Can't "Sweep This Under The Rug"; Brown Family Attorney: North Carolina Police "Hiding" Body Cam Video of Shooting; Biden Set to Give First Joint Address to Congress This Week; GOP: Biden Broke Promise to Govern in Bipartisan Way. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 26, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

BEN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: She was with the family of George Floyd. She was with the family of Michael Brown. She was with the family of Breonna Taylor. She has been a shoulder for them to lean on. She has been a calming force for them. If all of us she's one of their original mothers of the movement, and she did not think it robbery.

Elizabeth City to come down and be with the family of Andrew Brown she is the mother of Eric Garner. The first, I can't breathe case, and stand out in New York before George Floyd said I can't breathe. Yes, let's welcome, the mother of the movement, the mother of Eric Garner, Ms. Gwen Carr.

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: Thank you all. I just want to give honor to God, who is Christ in my life. And I thank you all for standing up for justice. This is what we must do. Everybody has to stand for justice; we have to gather like this. I'm tired. I'm tired of coming to these commemorations for black men being shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why we change.

CARR: But again, I can't to stand in solidarity with this family. But too much is too much. We can't even get over the trial of George Floyd before there were several other murders. And then we come down here to Elizabeth City where they shoot a man in the back.

They won't show the video, what are they trying to hide? If he had shot one of those police officers, or if he had even had a fight with those police officers, the video would be all over the nation by now. But now they're trying to hide the police face, why?

They are the criminals. They say that we are armed and dangerous. No, they are the ones who are armed and dangerous, who are taken out by if they come into our communities, abusing and brutalizing our children. Then they tried to sweep it up under the rug.

We must say no more sweeping it under the rug. We want justice. We want accountability. We can't have this keep on happening. And we can't treat it like it's the norm because there's nothing normal about this. Our children are dying. And we have the media it's another news story to the media. But this is our lives. We have to learn this each and every day.

As they say all police officer isn't bad. All black and brown isn't criminals. We have to treat the situation as it is. And I am so sad. Give my family this - my sympathy, my love. And I stand with you as all of you do. And we have to keep on standing together. We can't go home and just sit on our couch. We have to stay woke people. Thank you so much.

CRUMP: Thank you. You know, yes. George Floyd people wrote and called us from all over the world saying until we get justice for George Floyd, none of us can breathe? I think while we got Ms. Carr here we should remind the powers that be that we can't breathe until we get transparency.

We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We can't breathe! We won't Ms. Carr know that we still remember her saying Eric Garner never got his day in court. We're still fighting for justice for Eric Garner's is well.

CARR: Thank you.

CRUMP: We got another update from the county. I said it getting really close, y'all the -

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I say black lives on my back what you do? You say stand up my back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We go and take the family. We will be back we're getting real close.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm John King in Washington. You're watching attorneys' family members, friends and supporters of Andrew Brown. He was a 42 year old black man killed by police in Elizabeth City, North Carolina five days ago.

The attorneys now going inside with members of the family they are demanding the release of the police body cam footage. They want the body cam footage of the moment Andrew Brown was killed by sheriff's deputies and of course, the circumstances around it.

Attorney for the family speaking at that news conference they had an appointment 35 minutes ago to see that video. They say now the police are telling them they need more time because they are editing portions of that video. The family and the attorneys they're demanding that the entire video be ready.

Few details have been released about the circumstances of the shooting up to this point beyond the fact that happened last Wednesday, as deputies say they were trying to serve Brown, an arrest warrant. Let's bring in for our conversation here Retired LA Police Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey and our CNN Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.

Elie, let me start with you in the case of their legal questions here, this family, the attorneys, they have very large concerns about how this happened? They want the transparency of the tape. They want answers to their many questions about why and how this happened. The immediate concern is they had an appointment and they say the police suddenly said we need more time because we are redacting some of the video. What is the applicable law in this case?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, John. So North Carolina has a fairly unusual state law that really gives law enforcement almost complete discretion about whether and when and how to show this kind of video to a family?

And this is the law that our colleague at CNN Bakari Sellers, we just heard him criticizing. Essentially, the law says that it's up to law enforcement, if they want to show the video to the family. And the family apparently here is not satisfied with what they've been offered. They can then go to court.

The law also says that in order for video like this to be released publicly, there needs to be requests, either from law enforcement, which has not happened so far from North Carolina authorities. And I think as part of the criticism, or from the public, then it goes to a judge and the judge has essentially complete discretion over whether or not to release this.

So I think that some of the frustration we're seeing from the family and its representatives are this feeling of helplessness because the decision about the video was entirely in the hands of law enforcement and then perhaps secondarily a judge.

KING: And Sergeant Dorsey, you hear right there, again, something we hear too often. That's just the total lack of trust, the family and the attorneys, believing they had an appointment believing they would get to finally see this video, and now they believe they're getting the runaround from the sheriff.

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: You know, I mean, this is also cyclical, right? We go through this over and over again. And much like Bakari said, you know, folks need to get involved and get engaged, it's never a problem, until it's a problem for you as a family member.

And that's why it's so important to vote for judges know who's sitting on these benches, and who's going to ultimately have control and dominion over whether or not videos do get released by Police Departments? And so and then eventually, the Police Department will release it, they'll have an opportunity to see it, it may not be timely and when the family wants.

I understand that there's an investigation that's ongoing, and they want to be careful about what they release, and make sure that everything that gets released is germane to that encounter, and that's something else. And so I understand both sides. KING: You understand both sides and walk me through the law

enforcement perspective. The family says we had an appointment, and they're saying essentially, the police had 48 hours. This was scheduled. And if they had to do editing, if they had to do redacting, they should have had plenty of time to do it.

From law enforcement perspective if you are involved here - if you are the sheriff in this case, what should the family and the public get to see? And what might you have a legal right or some investigative reason to say we need to hold that at least for now?

DORSEY: Well, generally, we hear police administrators often say that they won't release something because of an ongoing investigation. And we now know that the law there allows them to do this very thing.

And so if they want it to be transparent, and not perceived as someone who's hiding the ball, so to speak, then they should have given a time that was reasonable for that department to do everything that it needed to do in terms of redacting the video to get it to the family because now they've given them a time certain, and they seem to be putting them off.

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DORSEY: It makes one ask the question, what are you hiding?

KING: And let's - for those who might have just joined us at the top of the hour, let's listen to a little bit of the attorneys making the case here. We want to see this video and we want to see it out.

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CRUMP: And when we think about what we just saw happen in Minneapolis, we have Derek Chauvin being held criminally liable guilty, guilty, and guilty for killing George Floyd. Is that the reason they are trying to hide the video because they don't want accountability?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Several things there Elie when you listen to that. Number one a reminder, as Sergeant Dorsey said, we are here again, sadly, we are here again. And these trust issues they may be different from community to community. The circumstances of the case may be different. But you have another black man who has been shot and killed by police and now a family that wants answers.

The body cam video obviously was part of the overwhelming video evidence against Former Officer Derek Chauvin and this case in North Carolina happening so soon after. You hear Mr. Crump and again, I understand the police force, the sheriff will say no, not the case here. But you can certainly understand from the family perspective, you have this video. Why can't we?

HONIG: Yes, John. I think law enforcement really across the country needs to come to a realization that we're in a new era now. And I've been on the receiving end of these requests, as Sergeant Dorsey lay out, you do have to look at these requests and ask is it going to compromise our investigation?

For example, does the video maybe show some other person of interest who we're trying to identify and don't want them to know we're looking for them. However, law enforcement over uses that excuse, they always say, oh, it would interfere with our investigation.

They need to get with the times, we're at the point where the public expects, and really is entitled to transparency and truth, and much more quickly than I think even a couple months or a couple years ago. So I don't think North Carolina authorities are doing themselves any favor by slow playing this or by hiding the ball.

They have the power to show that video unredacted to the family right now. And they meaning law enforcement in North Carolina under the law can go to the judge. They could have gone to the judge last week and made that request. And that's really the quickest way to get this out if they want to get it out.

KING: And Sergeant Dorsey from your perspective, as someone who was more on the badge and been on both the receiving end of - been on the receiving end of times of criticism, I'm sure from the public. What is the answer here?

You heard the attorney saying the North Carolina legislature should change its policy. You heard Bakari Sellers, an attorney in this case, who also happens to be one of our colleagues here at CNN, a commentator, saying call the United States senators get them to pass the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act. How much of this can be legislated?

And how much of this has to be just a simple fundamental reboot of the trust relationship between Police Departments and the community?

DORSEY: Well, some of it is absolutely going to require legislation, particularly in that state, because we know that the Police Department doesn't have to release anything without a court order. And ultimately, that falls in the lap of a judge to determine whether or not what and when it will be released?

And so part of it is legislation the other part though, is just you know, Police Departments have to do things differently. Listen, we saw in the case of the Derek Chauvin murder trial, how he lied initially to his field supervisor and tried to minimize and downplay the use of force that was exerted on Mr. Floyd?

And we know that officers from time to time will misrepresent will not minimize and mitigate their behavior, understanding, eventually, the truth will come out. And so this is problematic. And this is why the trust runs so deep in our communities, because we know that these atrocities occur.

And it's not until it's seen on video that we even get a modicum of acknowledgement. And even then, they try to say, well, you know, if you had won the badge, if you did that, you know, if you had been on the job, you know, we make split second decisions, and you don't understand and again, just be very dismissive of our community. And so this continues to be problematic, and that's why people need to

know who's representing them at the heads of these Police Departments.

KING: But it sounds likely that at least the family will get to see some of this video in the coming minutes if not the coming hour or so whether it's publicly released is a question we will try to answer throughout the day. Again, the family of Anthony Brown - Andrew Brown and their attorneys are now in they believe any moment now that we'll get to see this body cam video.

Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey and Elie Honig appreciate your time here. We may bring you back if we get any more developments in this in the hour ahead. Up next for us, though a very big week for President Biden. He's approaching the 100 day mark and he has an enormous speech to the United States Congress and the American people.

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KING: This is a big and quite consequential week for President Joe Biden. His administration crosses the 100 day mark and he gives his first address to a joint session of Congress. That's Wednesday night. President arrives at this moment having accomplished some big chunks of his early agenda checks in every Americans mailbox.

A Coronavirus campaign to vaccinate Americans quickly and returned to the world stage by offering a foreign policy reset from the Trump days. All do qualify as big wins and part of Wednesday speech will include a reminder to Americans of these achievements.

But the Biden to do list is as big as the Biden already done list. And the next 100 days bring enormous challenges, Vaccine hesitant Americans could complicate a return to normal. Republicans can jam up many if not most of the president's legislative priorities. And there is some democratic quibbling over which issue to tackle next.

Let's get straight to the White House and CNN's Phil Mattingly. Phil, a big week for the President. How much of this is a bit of a victory lap and how much of it is now we must do this?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it'll be equal parts of each. There's no question about it. The president in his prime time address to the joint session of Congress in primetime for the American public is most certainly going to look back at his first at that point 99 days and some of the crucial accomplishments that the administration laid out.

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MATTINGLY: But they wanted to do his first day in office on January 20th, many of which they feel like they've absolutely checked the box and perhaps, particularly when it comes to vaccines gone even further, but you make the point that what he has lined up for the future is big. And that's by design. Obviously, he's already introduced a $2.25 trillion infrastructure and

jobs package during this speech he will lay out the second prong of that package. In total, it's about $4 trillion in spending. This piece would be what the White House considers human infrastructure, money for childcare, education, health care, as well paid family and medical leave all big priorities for Democrats, all big priorities for the president during his campaign.

But the question now is how do you get those into law? Obviously, you don't have 60 votes in the US Senate you'd need at least 10 Republicans, if you want to go the bipartisan route. Republicans when it comes to the human infrastructure piece, certainly not on board based on Republicans that I've spoken to up to this point.

And so the president's goal, I think you will see is to not just lay out those plans, but to sell them make the pitch for them, knowing that the legislative battles ahead will be anything but easy, John.

KING: Anything but easy. Phil Mattingly live at the White House appreciate that. And let's go to the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue up to Capitol Hill CNN's Lauren Fox. Lauren, to Phil's point, it's an ambitious wish list, I'm not saying what has already been passed was easy. But this is more difficult, is it not?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly right John. Look, I think everyone up here on Capitol Hill on the Democratic side was giving the president the benefit of the doubt when it came to COVID relief that is no longer the case.

They are moving into a massive infrastructure plan. And there are big disagreements right now over whether or not there should be one bill or two bills? Whether or not the price tag is an appropriate price tag? There are some progressives who want this number to be larger than $4 trillion.

You have some moderates who are uncomfortable with the idea of a $4 trillion price tag. So there is a lot of ground to try to calm and bring members together right now. And I think one of the challenges for the president on Wednesday is not just selling his plans to the American people, but really selling them to the Democratic Caucus.

Remember, you have lawmakers who have been working for decades on issues like the child tax credit. They want to see that permanent. Right now the president's plan, we expect will only have a couple year extension of the expansion of that child tax credit. That was part of the COVID Relief Bill. That's just one of the many sticking points that you're going to see moving forward.

And then there's the larger issue of how do you pay for this? And you have the president laying out a tax plan to try to pay for that. That's not necessarily going to be where things end up, though a lot of discussion. This is going to be messy over the next couple of months John.

KING: Messy over the next couple of months. Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, I think that may be an understatement. Appreciate it. That reporting and let's continue the conversation with us to share their reporting and their insights CNN's Chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, and Astead Herndon of the New York Times.

Kaitlan let me start with you. And I want to play a little bit of this is Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia yesterday, here on CNN. His Republican colleague in West Virginia has a smaller infrastructure plan. Republicans want to say President Biden wants to spend too much money. Here's a more targeted, focused approach. The president needs to keep the Democrats together, except Joe Manchin says, I like it, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): That's a good start. It really is. And I'm glad they did it. I do think they should be separated. Because when you start putting so much into one bill, which we call an omnibus bill, makes it very, very difficult for the public to understand.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: It sounds like you're supporting a smaller package with what you deem--

MANCHIN: --we're targeting done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president has to let this atmosphere play out because he likes to say I'm trying to be bipartisan, but only if the Republicans come close enough to make a deal worth it. Will that approach continue? Or does the president now in the second 100 days need to say this is what I want? Sorry, Joe, you got to do it.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I also think part of his approach on Wednesday night is going to be not just talking about his agenda in front of those Republicans who are in the room, but even selling it to his own party.

Because you see comments like that from Senator Manchin, where they are pushing back on some of these ideas rolled up at the White House, at least the size and the scope of these packages. And so I think that is just as much going to be a challenge for the president as he's facing his next 100 days in office.

You know, after he's gotten through these first 100 days passing that Coronavirus relief bill that he said he was going to pass with only Democratic support. I think now you have to keep in mind, he has such a slim majority for his party in the Senate, even in the House.

And so that is something that you're going to have to wrestle with, which is making sure not necessarily that they're reaching out to Republicans, because I think that there are a lot of people in the White House who think that they aren't going to get Republican support for a lot of the efforts that they're trying to undertake.

They'll reach out to them and say they want to hear their proposals, but I don't think at the end of the day, they know if they're going to vote for their bill, but I think it's also about keeping Democrats together as well. And that's going to be a challenge for him going forward.

KING: It's a giant challenge on just about every issue Astead. At the top of the hour we were listening to another family of another black man trying to get the police to show them body camera video in this case in North Carolina.

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Bakari Sellers, one of the family's attorneys, asking people there in North Carolina and anyone watching on television put pressure on the United States Senate to pass the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act. Listen here. Here's a sample. You have a freshman Democratic Congresswoman who says I need very tough provisions. So the police can be sued and a Republican Senator saying not so fast, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Right now we need to end qualified immunity period. If you are just and fair in your work, then disqualified do you need to qualified immunity anyway?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Qualified immunity is a very big deal. If you want to destroy policing in America, make sure that every cop can be sued when they leave the house. So there's a way to find qualified immunity reform. Take the cop out of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You know the issue? Well Astead, you're not going to get a deal on the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act unless you get Republicans in the Senate on that issue of qualified immunity. What Tim Scott, the Republican Senators' point man says he's confident they can get there we shall see. But there's that and this is larger issue.

And you hear are the freshmen Democrat Cori Bush there, whether it's policing, whether it's climate, whether it's health care, we could go through a long list of issues where progressives, they ran on their own agenda, Joe Biden was always more to the middle than them. And they are now saying, you know, eventually, Mr. President, we need some wins for our piece here.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Exactly. I mean, the realities of this slim majority is that you've already seen the kind of moderates flex their muscle, we're used to seeing Joe Manchin, we're used to seeing Senator Sinema from Arizona, those folks be kind of pressure points for the White House.

The question we might see going forward is how much are progressives willing to flex their muscle in this caucus? Also, Joe Biden at minimum needs to kind of complete Democratic unity on these issues and that's not just in the kind of targeted appeal to the mansions of the world. But that's also in making sure that the progressives and the left are feeling like they are getting heard enough.

There's an increasing willingness among progressives to push back against the White House. We saw that with the migrant decision a couple weeks ago, and there is after the Coronavirus relief package, they are growing more confident to say this is what we are demanding of this White House also.

So I think that you're going to be able to see both sides of the kind of Democratic Party really putting pressure on the White House, the question will be how they threat that line of unity? And that's frankly, what Joe Biden has defined his career on being the midpoint for that Democratic Party.

KING: Being the midpoint for the Democratic Party in the rearview mirror for Joe Biden. But Kaitlan, that's the challenge going forward. I want you to listen to just a sample House Republicans right away at a retreat right now, the president keeps saying he wants to reach out to the other side.

But we all know, as we get every day we get closer to the midterm elections, things are going to go, shall we say off into the polar quarters. Here are two leading Republicans saying, you know, Joe Biden says he's bipartisan, but we don't see it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): So if I look at the 100 days, it's more like a bait and switch. The bait was he was going to govern as bipartisan. But the switches he's governed as a socialist.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): You know, just a couple of months ago, we were hearing from President Biden, the newly inaugurated President Biden that he was going to unify the country. And then we were going to work together and have bipartisanship. I'm still waiting, Mr. President, I haven't seen any of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The flip side from the White House would be Joe Biden won the election, Joe Biden flipped Georgia. Joe Biden flipped Arizona. It's incumbent on you to come more toward us. But we don't live in that Washington.

COLLINS: No. And that was pretty clear that I think from day one, given the way Joe Biden was brought into office, and what happened on Capitol Hill with the insurrection and with the storming of it, and how those Republicans that you just saw their acted in response to that including Kevin McCarthy, of course, who has made several comments in recent days?

Really trying to deflect the former president's responsibility and so I think that it brought people to a point where the question of what that bipartisanship was going to look like? And so the White House has invited Republicans over to meet about certain proposals. They brought him over for Coronavirus relief bill, of course, and you saw those Republicans come on to the mic.

And ever since they have had those meetings, we have not seen the Republican lawmakers come out to the mics to speak to reporters after and I think it's because they're trying to carefully navigate this relationship with this White House while appearing like they are putting forth proposals.

But of course, the big question is going to be does Joe Biden get what he wants at the end of the day? And I think you've heard from some of President Biden's top aides saying that their new definition of bipartisanship is actually reaching out to Republicans across the nation about his plans and getting Republican support for these plans not necessarily Republican votes here in Washington.

KING: Not here in Washington. That's the challenge was - you're speaking to a joint session of Congress, but you're really speaking to the audience watching out there at home. Kaitlan Collins and Astead Herndon grateful for the reporting insights you've started a very busy week here in Washington.

Up next for us, a new wrinkle in the vaccine rollout worries now too many people are not showing up for their second shot.

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