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CNN: Cheney Has No Intention Of Stepping Aside As Conference Chair; House GOP Leader: Members Doubt Cheney Can Do Her Leadership Job; States Ease Restrictions As U.S. Tops 40 Percent Of Adults Fully Vaccinated; Pfizer Expects To Submit Vaccine For Emergency Use Authorization For Children Ages 2 To 11 In September; House Democrats Strategize How To Defend Narrow Majority. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 04, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello, everybody and welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing another very busy news day. With us there is major COVID news this morning.

Parents will be interested in this. The FDA now plans to authorize Pfizer's vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds, that is a game changer and back to school debates and it makes millions more Americans eligible for COVID shots.

President Biden bows to progressive outrage and changes his mind again, agreeing now to quadruple the number of refugees allowed into the United States over the next six months, more on those stories ahead.

But we start this hour with Donald Trump's new litmus test for Republicans. Are you willing to lie to the country and claim Joe Biden stole the 2020 election? Well, Congresswoman Liz Cheney says hell no. And it's all but daring House Republicans to strip her of her leadership posts for telling the truth.

The top House Republican this morning listens closely here essentially spells it out pretty plainly. Cheney's honesty about 2020 leaves her out of step with Republicans who want power back and who believes success in 2022 requires supporting or ignoring Trump's attacks on democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): There's no concern about how she voted on impeachment that decision has been made. I have heard from members concerned about her ability to carry out the job as conference chair to carry out the message we all need to be working as one if we're able to win the majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: House Republicans could hold a snap leadership election as soon as next week. And sources close to Congresswoman Cheney tells CNN she has zero intention of resigning her number three spot in that leadership meeting.

If her colleagues want to oust her, they will have to have the courage to vote to do so. With us to share their insights on this important story, our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash and the former top aide to Republican Speakers, John Boehner and Paul Ryan, Brendan Buck.

And let me start with you, Liz Cheney is daring them to do this, daring them. She's telling the truth. She's telling the truth. And she's saying fine, kick me out.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Because she's trying to make a larger point, a point that is larger than her own political viability, at least in the short term. And that is this isn't about whether or not I can stay in my job. This isn't necessarily about whether Republicans can win back the majority in 2022.

This is about the intentions and the - of the Republican Party, the long term viability of the GOP because it cannot be based on everybody grabbing on to something that is a flat out full on lie and doing so because the man who is still the head of the party, the Former President Donald Trump and his pals in the conservative media are perpetuating that lie.

So it's a whole self fulfilling prophecy that those Republicans are engaging in while she is standing up and saying no.

Part of the reason why everybody is latching on to the big lie is because of their own politics because they want to keep their seats or perhaps get the majority. And she is doing the opposite.

And it could mean the end of looks like it very well could mean the end of her position as a member of the Republican leadership.

KING: Brendan Buck comes in on that point. You have lived through this at the end of John Boehner's tenure and in Paul Ryan's tenure. The question is, is there any other alternative here? Now, I know you support Congressman Cheney and the truth about if you're Kevin McCarthy, and if you're Steve Scalise and other members of the Republican team, is there any way to coexist? Or do you have to make a decision here?

BRENDAN BUCK, FORMER SPOKESMAN, NRCC: Well, I had always hoped that there would be a way for them to coexist. To grownups, they should be able to come to some type of understanding of you're here, I'm there. But I don't think that Donald Trump will allow Kevin McCarthy to coexist with her.

And I think that's one thing. Liz Cheney's problem at this point is that she is making life harder for her members. And as a job, the job is a leader in the house is to make things easier for members and what she is doing simply by saying the truth is making Republicans squirm. They're having to talk about an issue that they would like to forget

about, not only what Donald Trump's role in what happened on January 6, but their own role in what happened leading up to it talking about that, you know, the false narrative about a stolen election.

They have to confront that every time she brings it up and they just want it to go away. And so she's making it harder, harder for them to do that. And then look, frankly, we have a very dysfunctional leadership team right now.

And it just all feels very tenable. It feels like Liz Cheney realizes it's untenable. Some of this feels awfully intentional. Pushing out some of these comments, it feels like she is, like you said, daring them to push her out and she's not going to make it easy for them on the way.

KING: All right. Not going to make it easy for them on the way. And one of the questions is what are the ramifications that and again, yes, I get when Republicans say well, Liz Cheney keeps talking about this, OK?

She's not talking about a vote. She's not talking about a bad policy decision. She's talking about an attack on the United States Capitol, the building you see behind me.

[12:05:00]

KING: And she's talking about the former president's continued insistence, including in that statement this week. It was just a ridiculous asinine statement from Donald Trump saying from this day forward, the big lie essentially is that Joe Biden still - the 2020 election is the fraudulent.

And Republicans are supposed to say that Joe Biden stole the election, Democrats data, see some advantage here. This is from the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, a word is out house GOP leaders are looking to push representative Liz Cheney from her post his House Republican conference Chair, their most senior woman and GOP leadership for a litany of very Republican reasons, she won't lie. She isn't humble enough.

She's like a girlfriend rooting for the wrong team and more. The speaker understands politics. And she's trying to pull assorted here.

BASH: She does, although there are times when the political role is then when you see the other side at part of a firing squad, you get out of the way and let that happen. So you know it's unclear how successful she's going to be in making things even worse for the Republican Party.

She's frankly, clearly having some political fun at the expense of all of the leaders say for Liz Cheney. But what you and what Brandon was saying were saying about Congresswoman Cheney being intentional, it's very clear.

The only way for her to have coexisted with the other members of the Republican leadership and the former president out there pushing for candidates who support the big lie, is to be quiet, is to just be quiet and tow the party line, which is to toe the line, and she won't do it. She won't do it.

She is asked about these issues. And instead of doing what, what many people would wanted her to do, which is demure saying I'm not talking about President Trump now, I'm going to stick to the issues. I'm going to talk about China.

I'm going to talk about the president's spending so on and so forth. She answers the question that is on purpose. She wants to have this debate because she believes my understanding and talking to people around her she fund and it's obvious from her actions.

She fundamentally believes if this debate is not happening now, within the GOP, the GOP is dead. A two party viable two party system is dead. And therefore democracy itself is in serious peril.

KING: Serious peril. And Brendan to that point, there's a lot of Republicans who just kind of keep hoping Trump just goes away. Right? They think Trump's just going to go away. And then this will all be behind us. Frank Luntz, the veteran Republican Pollster, said this to the Associated Press.

He becomes less relevant with every passing day, but among those who still listen to him, he's more relevant than ever. He still matters. He's going to matter for months and even years, but as time goes on, he'll matter even less.

I think what Frank is trying to say is to the core of the republican party, Trump is still number one, number two, and number three for them, maybe not to the country writ large. But the question is this is a Republican family issue right now. You have no doubt, right? I know you prefer not to be the case. But Trump rules today period.

BUCK: Oh, absolutely. And then the talk of a Republican civil war is nonsense. There is no there are really two sides of it. What makes Liz Cheney so remarkable and exceptional is she is such a lonely voice.

And you know, in Washington, we all were always wondering like, OK, well, what's their angle? What is - you know, what is she doing? What is she up to? I don't think that there is a political strategy here from Liz Cheney. I think she's just saying what she thinks.

And the reality is the politics are not good for her. I mean, she may lose her job. You know, whether I like it or not, Kevin McCarthy is not wrong, that in pure political term, they need Donald Trump on their side. If they want to take back the house.

We've saw it with the Georgia senate elections. The president is very capable of tanking Republican turnout; it'd be turned on them. It would be disastrous for them. So Kevin McCarthy, you know, I understand where it's coming from politically.

Liz Cheney is I don't think has any sort of four dimensional chess going on here. This is bad politics for and I think you should be even commended for it because so rarely do you see somebody doing something that is so clearly not in their political interests?

Because like you said, Republican voters, by and large almost entirely either with Trump or OK with Trump.

KING: With Trump or OK with Trump and the Republican leadership sees it as this is about power, not principle. You're right; they see 2022 we want power back. We got to keep Trump in the fold. That's where we go as we go forward.

Well watch this as it plays out. Brendan Buck, Dana Bash, Dana will be back with us for a later conversation. Brandon, it's good to see you. I appreciate your insights. Up next for us COVID reopenings now gaining steam even in some of the places hardest hit.

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[12:10:00]

KING: President Biden delivers an update on the COVID pandemic response a bit later this afternoon. The pace of vaccinations is down that concerns public health experts even as most pandemic metrics are improving across the United States. Reopenings now accelerating dramatically and vaccine eligibility is about to expand to a critical group.

The FDA now plans to authorize the Pfizer vaccine for those aged 12 to 15. And a top company official says today there should be enough data to make a decision about children as young as two years old by September that would be game changing in the back to school debate.

Let's look at where we are right now. No doubt and improving timeline but that's still a stubborn number 50,000 new COVID infections reported across the United States yesterday. The seven day average right about there, 49,619 so still, at about 50,000 new infections a day that public health experts say let's keep shoving that down.

Remember in the first wave New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, the winter was meaning to those states as well. Well, this is a sign across the country you see Governor's relaxing restrictions and accelerating reopenings including most restrictions, capacity on restaurants, capacity for crowds, et cetera.

Changing dramatically being lifted May 19 in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, a sign of the times why? Because more Americans are getting their vaccine shots. 32 percent of the country is now fully vaccinated.

44 percent of the U.S. population has at least one dose for those getting the two shot vaccines. Now let's break this down. 105 million Americans have been fully vaccinated now 36 percent of them are in the 75 and older age group, you see that they're 28 percent 50 to 64, 25 percent 30 to 49. Then you see the smaller percentages, adults 18 to 29. That's 10 percent of the vaccinated population.

[12:15:00] KING: Now the question is can you expand not only more vaccinations among 18 to 29, but for the approval now. Once the 12 to 15, once Pfizer is approved for those 12 to 15, that means 85 percent of the American population wouldn't be eligible for a shot eligible, then you have to go get them.

One of the concerns we'll hear from this from the president today. We hear from this from Governors we hear from public health experts, some Americans now more hesitancy is that access whatever it is, the pace of vaccinations is down 2.3 million right now.

There was a time it was well above 3 million vaccines. This is a concern to public health officials and a concern to Governor's who are now thinking of all creative ways. Listen here to the Governor of New Jersey, the Governor of West Virginia just two of the Governors thinking, what can we do? What incentives is it a beer? Is it a free meal? Is it money, come get a vaccine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Any New Jersian who gets their first vaccine dose in the month of May and takes their vaccination card to one of the following participating breweries as proof of vaccination will receive a free beer.

GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): We're going to encourage our local businesses to offer discounts if they would, you know, it's a crying shame. If you really think about it, you know that we've got to do any and everything to be able to get our people finally across the top of the mountain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us share her expertise and her insights, Jennifer Nuzzo, an Epidemiologist and Senior Scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security at the Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Jennifer, thank you grateful for your time today. As some an expert in the public health sector, what goes through your mind when you hear Governor say you get a shot and a beer, you'll get a free meal at a restaurant, you know, anything these incentives smart?

JENNIFER NUZZO, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, yes, it's absolutely smart. Because we have to do everything possible to get adults vaccinated. That's going to be the fastest path back to you know, normal that 2019 life that we remember once having. So I'm fully supportive, I think - is you should throw in some pizza with that beer.

But it is sad sort of, you know, on the human level that we have to induce people that the power of the vaccines don't speak for themselves, but I'm all for whatever it takes to get vaccines in the arms of adults.

KING: So walk through with me the significance, let's start with what we know is coming almost immediately, the next few days are the FDA we are told will authorize the Pfizer vaccine for those in the 12 to 15 year age group.

So you know, not all the way down to lower school. But more students more school age students eligible for the vaccine 85 percent of the American population at that point would be eligible. How significant is that? Not just in the back to school debate, but in the getting America immunized conversation?

NUZZO: Sure, well, I think is an important development. I know a number of parents are probably very eager to get their teams vaccinated, probably, you know, at one level to take just another COVID related worry off their plate.

But also we you know, our haven't been able to return kids to normal activities and parents of kids including myself, you know, very much feel the strains of that and feel how our kids have been suffering.

So I completely understand why there's going to be probably some strong parental interest in getting their teens vaccinated. The challenge though, is that kids are really at low risk from serious complications from this virus, you know, compared to adults, serious complications are incredibly rare.

And so well, it may be nice to vaccinate kids, I really much worry, you know, as an epidemiologist about a situation where we have so much of the world uncovered by vaccines where there are high risk adults, including healthcare workers who are putting their lives on the lines around the world caring for COVID patients that haven't yet had access to vaccines.

So it does worry me from sort of an ethical perspective that the U.S. that has more than enough to cover our high risk adults are now thinking about vaccinating lower risk populations, not to say that we shouldn't do it, I understand that the need that parents have.

But it really underscores the need for us to have more vaccines to protect the people who are most likely to die. And that's thankfully not kids.

KING: So it will be interesting to hear the president today because we know this is a debate within the Biden administration, what to do with the U.S. vaccine supply. And you mentioned I just said that the Pfizer vaccine will be authorized for those in the 12 to 15 age group.

Within days, the CEO of the company saying today, they believe children as young as two that they will have the trial data by September, which again is a parent, I'm with you, as a parent, you're thinking OK, back to school September, that would be great.

But your perspective is yes, it would be great as long as supplies allow it. But let's not be selfish is that you're worried that we are so focused as Americans as we should be on getting our own communities, our own children that maybe we need to lift our heads and think about the world.

NUZZO: Yes, absolutely. But also we have to remember that the science doesn't say that we need to wait for vaccines in order to return our kids to schools or return our kids to activities. It's yet another roadblock to having that happened but it is not strictly necessary.

It's really a nice to have rather than a need to have. So you know, what is not going to be good for kids though is if we let this virus continue to spread unchecked around the rest of the world.

And unfortunately we've been too insular and just thinking within our own borders, but we know we remain, you know, at risk as long as this virus is, you know, spreading uncontrolled elsewhere.

[12:20:00]

KING: Yes. We have lived through the cycles of this, things get a little better here, they get worse somewhere else and we go back and around, Jennifer Nuzzo grateful for your important insights on this day. We'll continue the conversation. Thanks so much.

And here's another example. Starting today baseball fans in Seattle can get more than peanuts and cracker jacks. If you go to a mariner's game, Seattle mariners say eligible fans can get a vaccine at t Mobile Park on game days, and you get a choice.

You can have a first dose of the Moderna vaccine or the one shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine. The dose is available on a walk up basis. No appointments needed. Up next for us a complicated map for the Democrats as they look to defy history in the 2022 midterms.

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[12:25:00]

KING: Right now Democratic Congressman Charlie Crist fits on this map. He is a member of the House Democrats that have a very, very narrow majority. But he wants his old job back as Florida Governor Chris this morning announcing a run for Florida Governor next year. That's the job he held a decade ago, when he was a Republican.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHARLIE CRIST (D-FL): I'm running so you will be in charge again. So you will have a Governor who will work for the people with a steady hand and an open heart.

That is a moment built on consensus rather than fueling division to restore civility, instead of demonizing those who have a different point of view. Together, we will build a Florida for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Crist, one of several Democrats - this race for Florida Governor and giving up that House he complicates what is already a very complicated battlefield. As Democrats try to defy history and keep their tiny house majority next year.

Let's walk through some of the dynamics we know now. And let's also be honest, there's a lot we don't quite know about how this is going to play out. But we do know number one, President Biden has picked some House Democrats to bring into the administration.

Three, Cedric Richmond, Marcia Fudge, Deb Haaland, this democratic race has already been held. These are safe democratic seats. Democrats are not worried about the special election in these seats.

But in the short term, they do mean fewer House Democrats right now. As you move closer into the election year, one of the things we keep track on is incumbents who are retiring. They're also incumbents like Congressman Crist; we just showed you who are seeking other political jobs. That's a whole separate list.

But we know so far four Democrats and three Republicans have announced their resignations from the house. That you see the margins, anybody's Johnson, for example, she won by 59 points. So you think oh, that's a safe democratic see?

Yes, it likely is. But also remember, number one, these margins were in a presidential year when voters from both parties tend to turn out. So if you're in a Republican district, you tend to do better in a presidential year more people come out same for the Democrats and redistricting, the lines of these districts could well be very different for the new candidates running in the next year.

Some Democrats, some districts excuse me will be eliminated all together. Now, here's the history. The Democrats and Republicans are looking at. Donald Trump's first term he got shellacked they lost 40 house seats in the first midterm of the Donald Trump and they lost control of the House of Representatives.

That's why Nancy Pelosi, the speaker, Barack Obama, it was even more of a pummeling, 63 seats in 2010. That's when the Republicans took control of the house. Look at the George w. Bush number though.

In the first midterm election of the Bush presidency, it was the first election after 911 Republicans actually gained seats in the house. This is what I'm not making a direct analogy. But the Biden team hopes the first election after a crisis in this case, the pandemic, perhaps history won't play out.

And it will be more of a battlefield election like that. That's what we just don't know. Now, everybody looks at every single clue. At the moment the election most recent was this Texas special election, congressman right died, his wife is among the candidates there.

Two Republicans, Democrats are worried we didn't turn out our voters two Republican candidates in that race, so there's a long way to the 2022 elections. Everybody's looking for clues everywhere.

If you're a progressive in congress, like Bernie Sanders, you say Democrats can't worry about the map just yet, can't worry about any one race. He says be bold and the voters will turn out next year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): You are right about the structural problems that we face. But right now, if we can do those policy initiatives, a lot of people this country could be nodding their heads, say you know what, that's pretty good. Maybe I'm going to vote for the Democrats.

From a historical perspective, you know, it is going to be a really tough fight for Democrats to retain control of the House and the Senate. And even if we lose in either body, then to a significant degree, Biden's agenda is finished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share her reporting and her insights on this important topic, Amy Walter, she's the National Editor of the Cook Political Report. Amy, it is good to see you. There's a lot we don't know about what the midterm climate is going to look like.

What do we know at this early date that both parties are studying and what they see is most significant?

AMY WALTER, NATIONA EDITOR, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Well, I think you've pointed it out really smartly there in the beginning, John that, you know, redistricting is probably the most important thing. We aren't going to have the final numbers at the precinct and block by block numbers that they need to redraw the lines until the end of August or September.

So that puts lined drawers. They're definitely behind schedule where a lot of members would already have a pretty good idea of what the new district lines are going to be like. But in is also clear in this era, John that everybody's drawing their own maps their publicly discussed, members know which seats are going to be more open.