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Inside Politics

FAA Cracking Down on Disruptive Passengers; Oversight Board: Facebook Must Apply Same Rules to Trumps As "Everyone Else"; Trump On Facebook Ruling: "A Total Disgrace"; Poll: 52 Percent of Parents Say They Will Get Their Kids Vaccinated; No 2 House Republican Publicly Pledges Support From Cheney Replacement. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 05, 2021 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The FAA is at zero - policy will stay in place as long as the transportation mask mandate stays in place where it's just been extended into September. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: People are out of control. Pete, thank you so much. And thank you all so much for joining us. I am Kate Bolduan. John King picks up our coverage right now.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing what is turning out to be a very busy news day with us. The White House shaking up its COVID plan as the pace of vaccinations takes a concerning drops.

The numbers down in 44 states and the number of shots in arms yesterday, drop below 1 million. Use it or lose it is the White House message now to states about their week to week vaccine supplies.

And a new White House pitch aims to get 160 million Americans fully vaccinated by the July 4 holiday. Much more in the COVID challenge just ahead including a debate among team Biden members about summer camp restrictions. We'll get to that in a moment.

But first, there is a lot, a lot a lot of Trump turmoil today the former president just minutes ago endorsing a candidate to replace Congresswoman Liz Cheney in the House Republican leadership. And we know the former president is working directly with the House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy.

In a new attack on Congresswoman Cheney earlier today, Trump also takes gratuitous new potshots at his Vice President Mike Pence. And at the Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell for not doing more to support Trump's election lies that angry.

And we must note full of false hood statement from the former president issued just moments after he learned he is banned from Facebook for at least six more months. Trump just last hour sending another statement a direct response to that Facebook decision, accusing the social media giant of stealing his right to free speech.

Facebook oversight board rule today yes, the social media company can keep Trump off its platform and off Facebook owned Instagram for now. But the panel said the company has no rules in place to justify a permanent ban.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MCCONNELL, CO-CHAIR, FACEBOOK OVERSIGHT BOARD: Our decision this morning is relatively simple and straightforward. First, we agree that Facebook had sufficient justification to remove Mr. Trump's January 6th posts for violation of the policy against praising or encouraging violent actors.

But we hold that it was improper, that is to say in violation of Facebook's own rules as well as generally accepted principles of freedom of expression for Facebook to make that suspension indefinite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The first amendment issues here are giant along with equally giant questions about the power of the tech giants. In the here and now that ruling keeps Mr. Trump from directly reconnecting with nearly 60 million Facebook and Instagram followers.

Let's discuss this now with me to share their reporting and their insights our CNN Correspondent Donie O'Sullivan, National Politics Reporter for the Washington Post Toluse Olorunnipa and Republican Strategist Alice Stewart. Donie, I want to start with you.

Grateful to have you here on the set, it's good to see you in person. The first amendment issues here the political collision here, Trump and the tech giants. I want to listen to more of Mr. McConnell from the Facebook oversight board.

He's essentially saying yes, Trump crossed the line; Facebook had every right to do this. But Mr. Zuckerberg and your team, you need to go back and rewrite your rules so that you're consistent down the road. Let's listen to a little bit more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: In indefinite penalties of this sort, do not pass the international or American smell test for clarity, consistency, and transparency. Facebook's treatment of Mr. Trump's future posting privileges did not meet these standards and cannot continue without a sober and comprehensive review. Applying the same rules to Mr. Trump, neither better nor worse as applied to everyone else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This is not a hug of the Facebook management it says OK, you did this. You had good reason. You got to figure this out, though.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, this board which was set up really to help Facebook make these very, very difficult decisions punted it right back to Facebook today and to Zuckerberg. And said you guys are going to have to come up decide for yourselves within the next six months if Trump should be allowed back on your platform.

What it comes down to John is, many people have right - rightfully so have concerns about the power of Facebook about the power of Mark Zuckerberg and how you can essentially d platform a den sitting president of the United States, no matter what he was saying how terrible it was.

On the other side, of course, is what message does it send to other world leaders to dictators? If they allow Trump back on the platform and say, you know, to other world leaders, well, you can use our platform to incite violence, but you won't be permanently banned.

KING: So this gets really hard. Let's focus on that for a second. Alice Stewart and your views on this and then I want to come back to the direct today politics tomorrow politics into 2022 for Mr. Trump and his platforms or lack thereof.

But let's just to remind people this is one of the reasons Donald Trump was banned from Facebook. This goes back to right after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. He's has a long posting he's condemning violence as part of some of the protests out there.

[12:05:00]

KING: When the looting starts, the shooting starts, Donald trump posted on Facebook. That was one of many things the former president did that, frankly offended truth and sensibilities and across the line. He was already banned from Facebook of some of the election lies we continue to hear today.

So Alice, how do you deal with this going forward in the sense that a private company like Facebook, yes, has every right to regulate its space, if you will? At the same time, we have a first amendment, Trump like him or not, is a political figure has to - who has the right to say at least most things.

ALICE STEWART, CNN COMMENTATOR: This is about freedom of speech. This is about our right to say what you feel. And look, I'm a Republican; I do not support the big lie. We have free and fair elections, President Trump last, President Biden won. I have a big problem with the incitement of the insurrection in the post that former President Trump had about that.

But for Facebook to do an arbitrary indefinite ban flies in the face. And it's completely contrary to free speech. We can't have these liberal big tech companies are picking and choosing and making up the rules as they go, and only applying free speech to those that are ideologically aligned with them.

And look, they are built as a platform not publishers, they are platforms for people to be able to speak and say what they want.

And if they're going to continue to have that reign as a platform, they need to be able to allow free speech and not be subject to the restrictions of being a publisher like CNN or other news outlets, because that is what the goal and the beauty of these social media platforms is for people to come out and say exactly what they feel.

And that's the important thing to move forward. But clearly, Donald Trump is trying to find a way around that by creating his own platform to get the message out there. But the bottom line here, John, this is about free speech and applying all the rules across the board the same for everyone.

KING: Toluse do we fully understand what it means in the here and now in the sense that Donald Trump right now, fully engaged, you would say you could say pulling the strings in this House Republican leadership contest. We're going to talk about that more in detail later.

But he issued a statement today attacking Liz Cheney attacking his own Vice President Mike Pence attacking Mitch McConnell. He did that and you can go see it on his website or you can go see it now if you visit cnn.com, or newyorktimes.com, et cetera on news sites.

But if you were able to post it on Facebook, then you also put the contribute here button below the post and you raise a boatload of money and it gets recycled and people repost it and repost it and repost it.

Do we understand the impact fully understand anyway here and now on Donald Trump as we move into the next election cycle?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, it's pretty clear, you know, looking at what happened in 2016, at Facebook was a big part of the fact of the reason why Donald Trump was able to win the presidency.

People in his campaign even talked about their ability to use Facebook to use ads use small dollar fundraising on the social network to propel him into the presidency.

So it's particularly painful to him that he's not able to post on Facebook anymore and that he has been banned essentially permanently from that website. And he's trying to have a way to go around it.

But I think it's also a big issue that he's using that Republicans have used that some Trump supporters have used this issue of canceled culture. And they like having that issue that animates their base. It's something that they can talk about extensively as President, former President Trump is banned from Facebook.

He has this as an issue when he goes to on Fox News or other outlets to do interviews. He can talk about how aggrieved he is that he has been banned and how you know, the big corporate media is trying to, you know, cancel him and keep him off the airwaves.

And that is an issue that really rallies his base; it unifies a large number of Republicans. And that's something that I think he'll continue to hammer home, even as he's attacking some people within his own party.

He has this issue of canceled culture that he's using to try to unify the various wings of the party, even as he's trying to counsel people like Liz Cheney and even Mitch McConnell.

KING: It's a great point because even as again, he loses a fundraising platform, he loses 60 million direct contact like that with more than 60 million people. And obviously, there were more on Twitter. This is what the former president said in his statement, what Facebook, Twitter and Google have done.

It's a total disgrace and an embarrassment to our country. Free speech has been taken away from the President of the United States. He's the former President of the United States, he won't say that. But because the radical left lunatics were afraid of the truth, but the truth will come out anyway.

The statement goes on and on. There are lies in it. I'm not going to read it all. But Donnie, Facebook had to know you say they punted this decision out to the oversight board, essentially creating a court, if you will, to regulate that. Now that board says OK, punting it back.

Are they prepared? Did they just think this oversight board would protect them from this? Or are they prepared at the management level to deal with Trump but also to deal with the myriad issues that come with Trump? This is not just about Trump.

O'SULLIVAN: I think we're about to enter a stage where there's going to be so much discussion and lobbying of Facebook frankly, from both sides here in Washington about this Trump decision. Look, this is a win-win for Trump. If he's left off the platform he can cry censorship fundraise off that?

[12:10:00]

O'SULLIVAN: If he's brought on the platform and you look at this race in Wyoming, he can use that massive network he has to fundraise to target specific ads at voters in that in that state.

And also, of course, if - if he doesn't get back, as I say, he can just say, well, I'm being censored and fundraise off that but definitely, Trump looms large over the Republican Party right now. Facebook would make it a lot easier for him to loom larger.

KING: By every statement he has issued in the past week has lies that it just lies, falsehoods lies call them what you will so they would have to mark those and flag those as well. It's another part of the conversation.

Donie grateful you're here today Alice and Toluse grateful as well for the reporting and important insights. We'll continue the conversation. Up next for us though, the Biden COVID team looks for ways to reinvigorate a lagging vaccine rollout.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

KING: COVID cases, hospitalizations and deaths all trending down. And those are big positives. But fewer than one million vaccine shots were administered across the United States yesterday. That is a big problem.

And one spin off of the mostly improving numbers is a debate about how fast to drop COVID restrictions case in point, open debate today among top members of the Biden COVID team about an issue of giant interest to parents, including this one COVID guidelines for summer camps.

Let's walk through the latest numbers right now. If you look at the state by state map 10 states trending in the wrong direction. That's the orange 10 states more COVID infections, new infections now compared to a week ago, 20 states in the base holding steady 19 states holding down, so 39 holding steady or trending down the map in a reasonably good position.

If you're looking at it from a case new infections perspective and you see the numbers here Tuesday 40,733. You see the steady drop. The question is can you get the average down? Can you keep pushing it down?

It was 70,000, now at 40,000 a little above that on average. So you can you keep pushing that. Here's the vaccine snapshot just shy of a third of Americans 32 percent are fully vaccinated. 45 percent of Americans have at least one dose of the vaccine.

So it's - those are up a little but if you notice in recent days, they've sort of stagnated a little bit. Let's walk through the map right now find your state on this map, the darker 39 percent in New Mexico 38 percent in South Dakota, those are the states with a higher percentage of people fully vaccinated.

You see 24, 24, 26 across Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia, some lower numbers in those states. That's the percentage fully vaccinated. Now, if you look through the pace of it, this is what is troubling right now.

You see these big numbers up here, right above 4 million, around 3 million above 3 million, 988,000 Americans getting vaccine shots yesterday, dipping below a million. It was down the day before but now below a million that is a concern to public health officials about continuing the pace of the vaccine.

Well, let's just look at a few states California, the biggest of all the states you see up here, close to 500,000. Some days it has come down some still 300,000 but down a little bit. Let's just skip over the state of New Hampshire, much smaller number smaller population.

But you see you're up here not that long ago. Now you're way down here. So what is the issue? Let's just take one more North Dakota, again, you were up here. And now you're down here.

This is a concern to the White House that all the people who want to line up, make an appointment, get a shot as soon as possible. They've had their chance.

Listen here, Andy Slavitt, one of the White House COVID coordinator saying, if you've had a vaccine and you are through it and you feel better and you feel more free, you're getting out and doing more, please talk to your friends and family members who are reluctant to get a shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY SLAVITT, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER FOR COVID RESPONSE: If you look at this slide, you'll see a visual representation of our approach. That's right, we're going to make it as easy as possible for every American to get a vaccine if you're one of the nearly 150 million Americans has been vaccinated. This is your call to action.

People want to know what your experience was like. So please talk with your friends, family, neighbors and community, share why you chose get vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us now to share her expertise Dr. Celine Gounder, CNN Medical Analyst, Infectious Disease Specialist and Epidemiologist. Dr. Gounder it's great to see you. So the Biden team, they got credit, they accelerated the vaccine rollout quite considerably at the beginning.

And they've sort of hit the wall right now. And so they're recalibrating, telling states use it or lose it. If you don't use your weekly allocation, we're going to find another states that maybe will. You heard Andy Slavitt there saying number one, we're going to try to make it easier, which means vans going through some underserved areas.

But also appealing to people who've had the vaccine, please talk to your friends, your family members who are reluctant. What do they need to do to reboot this?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST AND EPIDEMIOLOGIST: John, this is exactly what we see with all sorts of mass vaccination campaigns around the world. So if you'd look at, for example, polio eradication, this is exactly the model where you have these big vaccination, mass vaccination events.

And then you go into phase two, which we call mop up phase where you're really targeting those harder to reach people, the people who are perhaps a bit more hesitant, reluctant. And so we've known for months that this is what this was going to look like.

And for sure, now, each and every one of us who has been vaccinated, we all have a role to play in explaining what the process was like how to get it done, what the side effects of any of the vaccines were and how it has changed our lives in terms of being able to do some of the things we weren't able to do before.

KING: And so then help me with this number we do know and as someone who's had both these shots, if I feel less stressed that's just a fact of life. I feel less stress in my life. I feel safer doing everything. The next question is children. And we know within days, the Pfizer vaccine should be authorized for

those in the 12 to 15 age group. And by September the company says it hopes to have the data to make the case that it's safer for children as young as two to get it vaccine.

Look at this poll and Axios/IPSOS poll just out, are you likely to get your child vaccinated as soon as they're eligible? Only 52 percent of parents say yes. Does that number surprise you?

[12:20:00]

KING: And again, if your team Biden or if you're in the public health sphere, like yourself, what needs to be said and done to boost that number?

GOUNDER: Well, I think that number reflects the kids of the parents who've already been vaccinated. I think that number actually makes a lot of sense when you look at what proportion of Americans who've gotten vaccinated or are really seeking out vaccination.

But I really would urge people, you know, if you want to be able to have that relatively normal summer vacation to be able to go out and do things with your kids, the sooner you can get your kids vaccinated, the sooner you can do things as a family, the way we used to pre pandemic.

KING: And I would say ask your safety questions to Dr. Gounder, that Dr. Gounder - the world, not the internet. But let's move on to another issue. You are part of the Biden team during the transition and look smart people are going to disagree about some things and they're going to have you know, gradations of disagreement sometimes.

Another big question for parents, summer camps, most kids couldn't go to summer camp last summer. A lot of summer camps are open this summer. The question is what level of restrictions? Listen here to Dr. Walensky and Dr. Fauci to people, you know, well, they seem to be not exactly on the same page.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: It looks a bit strict, a bit stringent. But that's the reason why they keep looking at that and trying to, you know, reevaluate on literally in real time, whether or not that's the practical way to go.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We saw last summer that there were outbreaks in summer camps and the kids had to go home, they had to, to not attend these summer camps. We're trying to make it possible for these kids to be able to have as normal of a summer as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Is there CDC recommendations about summer camps? She went on to say, if kids are out swimming kids are out a big open field, we don't need a mask. If kids are crowded playing soccer, they're going to be bumping into each other. They should wear a mask. This is hard. I get that it's hard. But how important is it that team Biden speaks consistently in one voice on these questions of great importance?

GOUNDER: John, I don't think they're actually that inconsistent. I think Dr. Fauci is looking at it from the perspective of we will soon have a vaccine approved for use in that 12 to 15 year old age group.

But Dr. Walensky is the Head of the CDC cannot get ahead of another agency, in this case, the FDA and coming through with that authorization for that teenage age group. So she - you know, the recommendations that come out of the CDC are for the here and now.

And once the FDA does come through, we all anticipate they will next week with the authorization for our adolescence, then the CDC will again update its guidance. And so I think what Dr. Fauci is really reflecting is where we'll be probably in two weeks time with respect to our guidance.

KING: Dr. Gounder, as always grateful for your time and especially your important insights. Thank you. Up next back to the big Republican Party drama Donald Trump calls for Liz Cheney to go and the rest of the Republican Party says sure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --give any comments on Liz Cheney from House Republicans -

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't understand the Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Not the President of the United States just moments ago picks up looks like some beggar tacos. They're on Cinco de Mayo, saying I don't understand the Republicans that talking about a big drama that proves above - among many things that Washington right now is a lonely place for Liz Cheney.

The Wyoming congresswoman telling ally, she is well aware of the math and understand she is all but certain to be removed from her third ranking position in the House Republican leadership next week.

Congressman Cheney is being removed because she will not go quiet about Donald Trump's election lies calling them among other things, a poison on our democracy. And the push to replace her is making all the more clear. It is Trump calling the shots here.

Trump last hour endorsing New York Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to take Cheney's position in the house leadership. Plus, we know Trump has been coordinating with the top House Republican Kevin McCarthy to engineer Cheney's ouster and this morning the number two House Republican also publicly pledged his support for Stefanik. Joining our conversation, CNN's Lauren Fox, so this is done right,

there's no question about that. Did the House Republican leaders have any concern at all that this looks like - pulling the strings on Pinocchio?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't think so. And here's why I think part of this is that Kevin McCarthy was with Liz Cheney when they took this vote in February.

Obviously, the tide has turned on that McCarthy clearly signaling both in his conversations with Trump and private conversations with his lawmakers that he backs Elise Stefanik to take on Cheney in this role.

Now, I think one thing to keep in mind in all of this is the fact that Republican leadership feels like people supporting Liz Cheney. They're in the minority in the Republican conference. There are very few lawmakers who voted to impeach Trump.

Of course, you know, those numbers. There are very few Republicans who think that Liz Cheney is on message right now with the Republican Party. And even though there are some Republicans who may not like Trump or want to move on from Trump, they're sick of talking about this.

And the fact that Liz Cheney had continued to do interviews to talk about the election to talk about what happened on January 6. That is something that Republican lawmakers were getting frustrated about.

KING: Let me argue though, that maybe the conversation should be flipped he keeps talking about it. If Trump would say, I'm sorry, I'm done, I won't even - have to say sorry.

[12:30:00]