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Georgia DA Asks For Special Grand Jury In Trump Investigation; Biden Finishes Year One With 1 Hour, 52 Minute News Conference. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 20, 2022 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Senator Elizabeth Warren says we need to get as much as we can across the finish line. So, a pragmatic approach there from a leading progressive on the Senate side, but Bernie Sanders is still white hot at some of his Democratic colleagues. Last night, the voting rights legislation failed. The effort to change the Senate rules failed.

Bernie Sanders said after that, it's not just this vote. These are people who I think have undermined the President of the United States. They have forced us to go through five months of discussions which got absolutely nowhere. I think they can expect to find a primary challenger. He's talking about two Democratic senators Sinema and Manchin. The anger among Democrats, Sanders is independent, but he works with the Democrats is raw.

JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely raw. And I mean, the immediate thing that precipitated those remarks was, of course, the defeat of the Voting Rights bill, or the blockage of the Voting Rights bill, and then the failure of the Democrats to change the rules to get it through because Sinema and Manchin did side with the Republicans and preventing that from happening.

But what he's talking about as well is the fact that the two of them were holdouts for many, many months on the reconciliation bill, on this big package. They insisted that things be taken out, that things be changed, otherwise, they couldn't support it. And then in the end, Senator Manchin made it very clear at the end of last year that he still wasn't going to be able to support it.

And so, there is a lot of frustration among progressives that, you know, they sat there at the table thinking that they were going to be able to make this work. And now they've come away with nothing. I do think that the President and many Democrats on Capitol Hill are pretty focused on what they can salvage from that picture. One big piece that the President mentioned that I think does have a chance is this large climate change package that was part of the overall bill, that's about $500 billion.

There is a lot of enthusiasm for that among progressives, Senator Manchin has said that he's willing to do that, and that he's interested in doing that, it includes a lot of tax credits that he's supportive of. I don't think it's going to get Republican support, though. So, the question is going to be, are they going to use this process this reconciliation process to get this through over Republican opposition? And then can they get enough progressives to accept that that's all that they're getting? And will they have to tack anything else on in order to make sure that it gets through.

KING: It's just a new set of fascinating questions as we watch how the President says he's going to trim and sell some. But that raises additional as you outline them quite well as we go forward. And I'll ask all of you to stand by for a minute because we have some new additional breaking news that's coming into CNN. The Georgia District Attorney investigating former President Donald Trump has now asked for a special grand jury. This request from the Fulton County district attorney is part of the inquiry into Donald Trump's January 2021 phone call with the Georgia Republican Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger. The President of the United States at that time trying to get Raffensperger's help in reversing the election results in Georgia. Jessica Schneider joins us now with more on this important legal development. Jess?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. John, so a big development here in this criminal investigation out of Atlanta, Georgia by the district attorney there, she is specifically asking the Chief Judge of the Superior Court there to let her impanel a special grand jury. This isn't a normal grand jury that issues indictment. This would be a grand jury that is allowed to issue subpoenas that is also allowed to do other fact finding as it went -- as it goes toward the criminal investigation. And what she says in this letter, the Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, she said that they have made multiple efforts to interview witnesses, gather evidence, but a significant number of those witnesses and prospective witnesses have refused to cooperate with the investigation, absent a subpoena.

She specifically references, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. He had made a comment several months ago that he would cooperate if he got a grand jury summons. But so far, there's the district attorney out of Atlanta doesn't have that special grand jury that has that power to issue the subpoena. So that's what she's asking for in this letter. If she gets that power, this special grand jury could be in paneled for much longer than a normal grand jury. They would see this investigation through. They would issue subpoenas. They would conduct other fact finding.

So John, this is really another indication of another significant step forward in this criminal investigation, it's the only criminal investigation that we're aware of that speaks to the former president's efforts, possible criminality as it relates to the 2020 election, like you said, specifically related to his January, early January 2021 phone call to the Secretary of State asking him to find about 12,000 votes that would put Trump over the top in that state. This has been an ongoing investigation, John, but this is a significant development, because if they got this special grand jury, it would mandate that witnesses come to them and talk about what they know here, including the Secretary of State, John.

KING: Jessica Schneider, appreciate the hustle and the very important breaking news. Let's get some important perspective now. I bring back CNN commentator Elliott Williams, former federal prosecutor and deputy assistant attorney general. All right, so here you have a prosecutor saying I need a special grand jury with these special powers. As a former prosecutor explain why and where you see this going?

[12:35:06]

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: OK. So often prosecutors will try to get people to comply to avoid the legal system altogether. You ask them to come in and work out the terms of their conversation. Sometimes they don't, you got to get a subpoena. And that seems to have happened here where she had pursued a number of witnesses, wasn't getting cooperation from them, and said, fine, we will still get your testimony via a subpoena.

What a special grand jury in Georgia does, and this is quite important, number one, they can issue subpoenas. Number two, compelled documents, so she can make people hand documents over. And number three, inspect and enter offices, which is interesting as well. So this, this gives a lot more investigative heft to the prosecutor's office.

KING: And so let's go back in time, prosecutors put together every piece of evidence they can. This prosecutor starts with the voice of the then president of the United States on the phone with Georgia Secretary of State. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Elliot, that's corrupt.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KING: But what makes it criminal? What do you need to prove to make it criminal?

WILLIAMS: Here's the thing, it's corrupt, but it may not be criminal because I need to find a certain number of votes. If he actually believes that these votes exist, right? And this might defy common sense. But if he actually believes he won the election and believes that they're out there, and that there were irregularities in the election, it's not criminal to go to a government official and ask them to sass out those irregularities.

Now, if he knows that he lost and knows that he's lying and knows that he's urging a government official to violate the law, then it becomes criminal. But that's a statement that on its face, by itself isn't enough to charge the President with a crime I know many, wait, but to use your word, John, corrupt on toward a disgraceful from someone holding high office, absolutely. But just by itself, that is not enough to charge someone with a crime. KING: So then walk me through put yourself in the Fulton County prosecutor shoes, you have those recordings, you have tons of public interviews, where Brad Raffensperger talks about being on the other end of that call and not liking it, thinking the President -- what he's asking Mark Meadows, the former White House Chief of Staff arranged that call. What? Build your list for me, walk me through your list of what you would be asking this special grand jury to say I need a subpoena for this record, this record, this witness, that witness.

WILLIAMS: Everything speaking to the President's intent. So, number one, communications with Mark Meadows. Number two, communications with his attorneys. Number three, communications with his staff. Number four, evidence or information about the laws of Georgia, how much did he know about how election law operated in Georgia? Number five, statements he might have made privately that indicated his knowledge of having actually lost the election, which look, if he's got a bunch of toadies around him telling him Mr. President, you won, you won, you won, based on some reasonable belief. Perhaps, you know, it'd be very hard to charge with a crime. But everything here goes to Donald Trump's intent, the criminal intent to get someone else to break the law.

And we, you know, again, we're not there right now, prosecutors are not there right now. However, you know, they could potentially get there and build it.

KING: We know the January 6th Committee is trying to tread some of the same ground. They're not just looking at the day of the insurrection. They're trying to build it. This was part of a conspiracy that started on Election Day when Trump lost and included these efforts, whether it's Arizona, whether it's Pennsylvania, in this particular case in Georgia, to overturn the election. Are there any jurisdictional conflicts there, excuse me, any issues you see potentially arising? Or can these two investigations coexist at the same time, peacefully?

WILLIAMS: And that happens all the time where investigations coexist peacefully, in general states tend to defer to the federal government. But again, these are two different bodies, you're talking about not even a prosecutor's office in Washington. It is Congress investigating January 6th specifically, and many things that stemmed in flowed from that. This here is a far more targeted and far narrower investigation into the events largely surrounding that one January 2nd phone call but Georgia specifically.

So no, I don't see any potential conflicts. A lot of the evidence, as you touched on, John, is going to be the same. The January 6th commission may actually have sought some of these same records and conversations already.

KING: So again, keep your prosecutor hat on. I don't need to wait for it. I can write it myself. This is another witch hunt Donald Trump will say by another local Democrat, trying to make a name for his or herself, witch hunt, witch hunt, witch hunt. If you're especially a county prosecutor in Fulton County, Georgia, how do you block out the loud, very loud politics in a state where Donald Trump has a lot of supporters and do your job? WILLIAMS: Well, look, here's the thing, in the United States, we elect prosecutors all the time, nationwide. The idea that a prosecutor had run in a partisan election doesn't forever taint them from ever investigating some of them and other political party. And in fact, once elected prosecutors take an oath just to respect the constitution and not a political party.

[12:40:16]

Two things can be true, John, number one, a prosecutor can be a Republican or Democrat, investigating someone of another party, but also that person could have broken the law. And the mere fact that this prosecutor is of another political party doesn't irreparably taint, you know, taint the investigation. Now, of course, she ought to exercise caution and not turn this into an attempt to find everything that Donald Trump has done wrong. And there's many different areas. This is separate from New York, separate from Arizona, separate from the January 6th Committee, and very important that each of these different prosecutors don't blur this all into one, Donald Trump is a bad guy, umbrella.

KING: Elliot Williams, grateful for the very important insights there. Let's bring back our great reporters as well. I'm lucky on a day of breaking news. We have two veteran Trump watchers here. And also, Tia, this is your wheelhouse you write for the "Atlanta Journal- Constitution." Fulton County happens to be Atlanta, Georgia. Explain to our viewers the significance now of this new development of this very important investigation.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: You're right. As you mentioned, you know, the AJC, my colleague, Tamar Hallerman, has been reporting on this development. And she even floated a couple of months ago after talking to the District Attorney Willis that this was something that she was considering doing. It's all about continuity, you know, a special grand jury can be impaneled for longer than a regular grand jury. And they can be raiser focused on this one issue alone, as opposed to a regular grand jury, happen to hear about all different types of cases through the course of their term.

And so this is something that we knew District Attorney Willis was thinking about because she has been very methodical in this investigation. It's of course not your typical criminal investigation. And she's wanting to get it right. She is, as we mentioned, working, you know, simultaneously with all these other pending investigations, but this one is unique. And it's clear with the letter today that she's ready to move it to the next step.

KING: And Jeff Zeleny, if you're looking at this from the perspective of Donald Trump and his legal team, the New York Attorney General in a civil case demanding testimony from Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump, and Donald Trump Jr. about what she says she has evidence of fraud by the Trump Organization over inflating and deflating the value of its assets, the January 6th Committee just getting access to 700 pages of Trump White House records, including handwritten notes by his chief of staff about January 6th, in the days before it, and now the Fulton County prosecutor saying I need special powers to investigate potential criminal behavior in Donald Trump's effort to pressure Georgia Republicans to somehow help him steal the election. Wow.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's a lot. And things are certainly adding up. They're compiling every day, it almost seems every hour, sometimes there's a new development. But important to keep in mind, these are very separate investigations, as Elliot was saying. And this Georgia probe is specifically interesting, because A, there's that audio tape that we have heard again and again from the phone call by the former president and looking into Georgia.

But the question I have, John, is how much is this going to bleed into present day politics because Georgia is at the absolute center of the battle for control of a Senate, a very important governor's race. And it's actually sort of ground zero of where the former President is hoping to launch his new political act, if you will, by the supporters of his there. So this is, you know, a very inflammatory potential investigation. The question is, how long can this go on? Will it go on until November, if this is approved? Will it go on before 2024? So yes, everything is added together. But it's important for us to keep them all separate, because they are very separate and important and distinct investigations.

KING: Right. And so you make an important point. Julie Davis, Brad Raffensperger, who has been quite public that he A, counted the votes, B, Donald Trump lost, he went back and recounted the votes, Donald Trump lost. I believe they went back and did it a third time, Donald Trump lost. And Donald Trump kept trying to get Brad Raffensperger's help in cheating, cheating, frankly, that's what it is to change the results for me, cook the books for me, Donald Trump is supporting a primary challenge for Brad Raffensperger, because he wants to Trump ally in place in Georgia to count the votes next time to be there to take that phone call next time and maybe get a different answer.

DAVIS: Right. And absolutely, and just right, that that is one of the reasons that this particular investigation, although it's only a piece of all of the other investigations that are going on, is going to be particularly fascinating to watch unfold, because it's not happening in a vacuum. There are a lot of political crossmans here. I think it's interesting that you know, Raffensperger basically sort of invited this subpoena or to be compelled to cooperate in this investigation rather than voluntarily going in and talking to her because he is in a fight for his political life. He is -- he does have a primary challenge that's backed by the former president. And so this is a way for them to get at him and get at what all he knows, without him having to look like he's somehow going in and, you know, dishing on what President Trump said.

[12:45:19]

Now, we already know, as Jeff mentioned, quite a bit because we have the audio recording of that phone call about what went on. But as is the case with the January 6th Committee, as it's the case with some of these other investigations we've seen begin, there is a lot more backstory than the little slices that we've gotten to learn and I think what we're going to find from this Georgia investigation is that we are going to find out a lot more of that backstory and see and, you know, see where it leads for the former president, see where it leads for Raffensperger and the wider effort to figure out what actually went on and what caused the storming of the Capitol on the 6th.

KING: Right. Such a critical point, any of these investigations, the more we have transparency, new documents, new testimony new information, new facts, absolutely critical, critical. Appreciate everybody's help with this important breaking news.

Up next for us, the President's reflections on year one, and his lessons for year two, can he improve his standing, and can he help his party avoid a midterm disaster?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:59]

KING: President Biden promises a few important second year changes. One is to scale back his legislative wish list. Two is to travel out the country more. Three is to ask questions about what Republicans stand for and why they remain so afraid of Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did you ever think that one man out of office could intimidate an entire party where they're unwilling to take any vote contrary to what do you think should be taken for fear of being defeated in a primary?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It was the right lessons for Democrats in this difficult midterm election year, let's ask two veteran Democratic strategist, CNN political commentators, Hilary Rosen and Paul Begala. Hilary to you first, if you are a Democrat running in a tough race this year, or if you're advising a Democrat running in a tough race this year, did you hear yesterday from the President, what you want to hear? Or does that make you nervous?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you heard it, but it was buried between a lot of other stuff. You know, in a two hour news conference, so much gets lost. But look, I think that where the White House needs to be is actually where they are right now. He's going to stop being the master of the Senate, right? He's got to stop. It's not just not presidential to be going up and, you know, hightailing it up to the hill every day begging people to do things, let the staff from the government, they're doing a pretty good job of that. And he needs to key into where people are. He needs to deal with parental exhaustion from the pandemic, their fears about the economy, their need for security, when he says, I'm going out into the country, that's what he's talking about.

And I think if he does some of that, he'll be welcomed by a lot of those members. And then finally, the second piece is it's not really a Trump comparison. It's more a GOP comparison. What are they for? We know that what Democrats are for, childcare, taxing rich people and corporations, maintaining health care, reducing student debt, those are real popular, start creating more contrast between what the Republicans are against and what Democrats are for.

KING: And so Paul, to that point, I've known you for a long time, you're a Democrat who likes to draw sharp contrasts. One of the President's answers, though, was not about a contrast with a Republican. It was about a contrast with a -- he's an independent, but he plays with the Democrats. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: You guys have been trying to convince me that I am Bernie Sanders. I'm not. I like him. But I'm not Bernie Sanders. I'm not a socialist. I'm a mainstream Democrat. And I have been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: On the one hand, I get that. The President's trying to get back to find me in the middle of the electorate. The other hand, Bernie Sanders in a tough year for Joe Biden has actually been an incredibly loyal foot soldier, compromising a lot of his own positions to try to help the President get things done on Capitol Hill. Was that the right thing to do?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, you're right. He just said, I'm not a socialist, and not named Bernie. Who would have thought going into this presidency that it would be moderates, his fellow moderates, like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema who would do so much damage to him? And the progressive he defeated for the nomination, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren would be such great allies. And I don't come from that wing of the party. But I have to say, you're right. They are terrific. And he should have left Bernie's name out of it. But it is true that he needs to get back to the sense that he's middle-class Joe and Middle America Joe.

And I don't think it's so much left right, as it is up down. And it was music to my ears that Hilary is exactly right. By the way, the White House should simply take the clip of what Hilary said before me and just make that the playbook for the next year. But it's that up down kind of economic populism where Biden is so strong, and that's where he needs to be.

KING: And the biggest issue in the country, we have a lot of conversations in Washington about process and about internal party friction, because that's what we do. We cover politics. COVID is the dominating issue on the country, Hilary. If you look at right track, wrong track, the right track has barely budged in a year of the Biden presidency, the wrong track has gone up about six points that's because of COVID exhaustion, whether its economic, whether it's about schools, whether it's about health. What can the President do about that?

[12:55:02]

ROSEN: Well first he can talk about it, right? He -- I think he didn't spend nearly enough time yesterday and I think that, you know, they understand that when you're answering press questions, you're responding, you're not being proactive. He's got to really talk about it, understand that people are done with this, and find ways to help people accept that we are going to be living with this pandemic for a long time.

And so how you do that, how you navigate your life, how you navigate your families, how you work differently, all of those things are things that people actually want to hear about. They want some sense of comfort, stability.

KING: I wish we had more time. We do not today because of some breaking news but I want to continue this conversation with both of you as we go forward. And thank you for your time today in Inside Politics. Ana Cabrera picks our coverage on the other side of a quick break. Have a good afternoon.