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Ukraine FM: Putin "Already Shot Himself in the Foot"; Biden Puts U.S. Troops on Alert Amid Standoff Over Ukraine; New CNN Interview with Mitch McConnell; McConnell Talks to CNN about Trump, Midterms & Voting Rights; Trump's Legal Jeopardy Intensifies Amid Multiple Probes. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 25, 2022 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Hello, and welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

The Biden White House turns from restraint to readiness 8500 American troops now waiting on orders to deploy to Eastern Europe. Now it is Vladimir Putin's time for choosing invade Ukraine or back down.

Plus the CNN exclusive, Senator Mitch McConnell prefers he and Donald Trump just ignore each other but a new interview highlights a likely McConnell Trump midterm clash. The Senate Republican leader tells CNN it is critical that GOP candidates avoid Trump's big lie.

And spiking crime is in every city challenge the New York Mayor vows to lead the fight and his plan relies on reviving a controversial police unit. We begin the hour though with the Ukraine stand up.

Just today the White House holds two classified briefings up on Capitol Hill to brief lawmakers and bring them up to speed on the security situation in Ukraine. President Biden says he is now ready sent 8500 more American troops to Eastern Europe. NATO has already put more assets in the region.

The intent to add military muscle to the diplomatic pressure and to get Vladimir Putin to back down for potential Ukraine invasion whether the Russian leader takes that off ramp though is an open question.

This morning in an exclusive sit down with CNN Ukraine's Foreign Minister says an American convoy to the region would deliver a clear message to Putin that Putin has "Shot himself in the foot" and the foreign minister warns no one will decide Ukraine's fate, but Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If anyone makes a concession on Ukraine behind Ukraine's back, first, we will not accept that. We will - we will not be in a position of a country that picks up the phone here's the instruction of the big power and follows it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: CNN's Senior International Correspondent Sam Kiley is in Kiev for us. Sam you hear the Ukrainian Foreign Minister there trying to say this is our decision. This is our country. But Ukraine at the moment does very much need its friends.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It doesn't need its friends. Its friends today John has been delivering in the form of U.S. military aid, among other things large amounts of weapons including the Javelin anti-tank weapon a very important tactical weapon here that's on top of similar or rather smaller anti-tank weapons being provided by the British about 10 days ago.

So they are getting material support. There have been a bit rattled here though, John, also by kind of psychological damage they feel that's been done by the announcement the U.S. is increasing its presence of U.S. Marines in the embassy here drawing down the numbers of people getting rid of non-essential stuff and families in the U.S. Embassy.

The Brits have done the same as of the Australians and the Germans. Now three of those five are part of the Five Eyes Community who share intelligence, the Anglo Saxon world, the outliers on that one being Canadians in New Zealand. Who have not announced any drawdown of their diplomats here?

They are sharing intelligence and their intelligence indicates that they believe that there is a reason to do that at the same time President Zelensky here John saying calm trying to spread calm in Facebook addresses and echo by his ministers across the board spending all day to day saying we don't think we're about to get attacked, trying to reassure their population that now is not the time to be worrying excessively John.

KING: A tensed situation and as Sam notes of somewhat confusing situation. Sam Kiley appreciate the live reporting from Kiev. Let's get some insights and expertise now from the President of the Council on Foreign Relations also the Author of "The world: A brief introduction" Richard Haass.

Richard, grateful for your time today I want you to just listen to the President of the United States yesterday part of it is moving some military assets, but part of it is getting all the European leaders on the phone. President Biden says we're all together listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I had a very, very, very good meeting totally unanimity with all the European leaders. We'll talk about it later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But you watch the move yesterday, putting these troops on standby, and you tweeted this not clear why U.S. should send troops equipment to Eastern Europe. Russia has not increased its threat to NATO. The aim is to persuade him not to attack Ukraine unless we fortify NATO. Why? Why do you think what the president's doing right now is not calibrated correctly?

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: I think its fine that we put U.S. forces on alert, shorten the lead time that if they needed to be sent to Europe, they could be. I think that's just fine.

[12:05:00]

HAASS: I think just think it would be premature to send them to Europe, since one of the things we're messaging to Putin is essentially if you go into Ukraine one of the ways you will pay a price is NATO will be reinforced close to your borders and places like Poland or Hungary. He doesn't want it. So it seems to me the threat of doing that is one of the pieces of leverage I wouldn't--

KING: You just heard Sam Kiley, the government in Ukraine is not happy that the United States and a couple other Western countries are drawing down families, other non-essential personnel from the embassies. They say it sends the wrong signal at this time. But as Joe Biden tries to be Ukraine's friend, he also does have to worry about those Americans, doesn't he?

HAASS: Sure, and its tough thing. Look, the U.S./Ukraine relationship is strained. No matter what we do, it's not quite enough. From our point of view, we're taking reasonable steps in this case to reduce the vulnerability of American personnel and citizens from Ukraine's point of view we're signaling that we think war is likely that's the last thing they want to see.

This is a scratchy relationship. I think that's inevitable what the foreign minister just said at the beginning of your program, John, he doesn't want deals made behind his back. He's talking about the United States. And he's basically signaling Washington we don't trust you. We don't want you in the Russians picking up something at our expense.

KING: Bill Clinton was President of the United States when we first tried to figure out what Vladimir Putin want. And there's been a lot of bad behavior in the 25 plus years since. An analyst you know quite well Fiona Hill writes this in "The New York Times" of Putin.

He has the United States right where he wants it right now, all signs indicate that Mr. Putin will lock the United States into an endless tactical game, take more chunks out of Ukraine. And exploit all the fractions and fractions of NATO and the European Union getting out of the current crisis requires acting, not reacting. A, do you agree with that, and then B what would the acting part entail?

HAASS: I don't agree with it wildly. I think Putin miscalculated at the beginning. If he put 100,000 troops on the border, I think he was probably thinking of using all of that. And then the strength of the U.S. led Western response got him to think again.

I think now if he does act, he's more likely to do something smaller. One of the reasons you do something smaller is not the trigger certain response, he doesn't want to see if he does something more, for example, the Germans aren't going to be with us on sanctions.

We may not have the same NATO reactions; I think Putin's calibrating his cost benefit ratios, if you will a various kinds of action. And look the United States I don't quite know what it means to say we should act or react.

We've got a lot of considerations in the world, including China, including Iran, including North Korea, including Damascus; we do not want to have a crisis in Ukraine. We're certainly not prepared to send U.S. forces to Ukraine. So we've got to handle this with a little bit of care. And we still ought to be looking for an acceptable diplomatic outcome.

KING: So let's close on that point. Then you mentioned Putin's cost benefit analysis, President Biden has to make a similar cost benefit analysis. And there's an exchange of papers right now, Russia has questions the United States is sending in some written response. NATO is sending in some written responses.

We know one thing Putin wants; he wants the United States to say Ukraine will never join NATO. He wants President Biden to concede that U.S. troop presence in certain Eastern European countries close to Russia would come down or at least not increase. Is there something Biden cans "Give Putin" that that is not such a major concession that it's embarrassing?

HAASS: Well, the United States has already said, NATO is not going to welcome Ukraine anytime in the visible or foreseeable future. That doesn't seem to be enough to Putin. I think we're very open to various types of arms control agreements where you would have mutual pullbacks on of forces and mutual ceilings on the quality of forces that Russia would have near European countries and vice versa.

Again, it's really up to Putin, whether he's looking for an off ramp, whether he's looking for something that's face saving, and as I keep saying, I don't rule out the civility, that he won't find satisfaction with what you were just talking about some new formula on Ukraine eventually everything has been tried.

Instead, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, he increased Russian presence in the Western Hemisphere perhaps having Russian bombers visit places like Nicaragua or Venezuela or Cuba. Again, he can widen the chessboard here and find an acceptable outcome from his point of view. That way, we then have to decide what we're prepared to live with. KING: It is a tense analogy, but a proper knowledge thinks widening the chessboard. We'll stay in touch as that happens in the days and weeks ahead Richard Haass grateful for your insights today, sir thank you.

HAASS: Thank you, John.

KING: Thank you. Up next, CNN talks to the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, his take on Republican chances in the midterms and on differences with Donald Trump.

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KING: In a new interview with CNN, the Senate Minority Leader excuse me, Mitch McConnell, really trying to thread the needle. He tells CNN's Manu Raju he's mostly on the same page as Donald Trump heading into the 2022 midterms. But there is one giant divide. How McConnell thinks Republican candidates should talk about the 2020 election?

Manu Raju joins us now live with more. This is one of the most fascinating if not the most fascinating relationship in politics right now. Walk us through the conversation including that potential collision.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Because remember, in the aftermath of the January 6 insurrection, Mitch McConnell voted to acquit Donald Trump. But then went on the Senate floor and called him responsible for the attack on this Capitol that has led to a month long barrage of attacks launched by Donald Trump against Mitch McConnell.

And a number of Republicans flatly consider corned about what this would mean for their efforts to take back the Senate Majority keeping their party on the same page.

[12:15:00]

RAJU: Now talking with Senator McConnell through all these dynamics, it's clear he believes that he and Trump are actually on the same page on a number of these key races. They've gotten behind similar candidates in Nevada and in Georgia. He's staying out of a Republican primary in Alabama and a primary that Donald Trump has endorsed.

He has also the notes that they are on a different page on Alaska, the Senate Republican Lisa Murkowski running for re-election there despite her vote to convict Donald Trump, but that is a state that will almost certainly state in Republican hands.

And he also notes John that he is good with Republican candidates in a number of key races in the primaries that are emerging messy primaries in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, in Ohio, though notes that he is watching very closely a potential problem in Missouri Republican candidate there that Republicans are nervous about the former governor Eric Greatens could emerge from that race. McConnell is not ruling out the idea of engaging in that primary if it turns haywire. Now what he is warning about is the talking about what happened in the 2020 elections? Donald Trump has used the lie that the election is stolen is a litmus test of sorts to get Republican candidates to agree with them in order to give him their endorsement.

But when talking about Republican candidates who are embracing that election falsehood, McConnell had this warning. He said it's important for candidates to remember. We need to respect the results of our democratic process, unless the court system demonstrates that some significant fraud occurred that would change the outcome.

Now, he also is discounting the impact of the fight in Congress over in expanding voting rights that we've seen all throughout this past year, as well as in the last couple of weeks here will have any impact at all. I just think on a single impact on a specific Senate race and John, even though he and McConnell and Trump at this moment may be on the same page on the candidates.

He is still trying to court McConnell is to Governor's Larry Hogan, Doug Ducey drawn for those races in the in Arizona and in Maryland. And of course, Trump has gone after particularly Ducey so potentially they could be on the opposite sides in critical races this fall.

KING: Manu, standby because let's bring in some other reporters - so let's talk about it. With me to share the reporting and their insights CNN's Dana Bash, POLITICO's Nicholas Wu and NPR's Ayesha Rascoe.

Dana, let me start with you. You know, Leader McConnell quite well, this is what he told Manu about the Alaska race. We're going to be in Alaska helping Lisa Murkowski and that's the one place where the former president and I have a disagreement.

He calls it the one place but to the point Manu was just making if McConnell is successful, and he can get Governor Ducey in the Arizona race, and if he is successful, and he can get Governor Hogan, Former Governor Hogan in the Maryland race, especially in the case of Doug Ducey that's one of Trumps hand grenade states, if you will.

He thinks Governor Ducey was supposed to help him cheat in Arizona and he didn't. So McConnell wants to be home mostly on the same page with Donald Trump, but that is going to be sorely tested.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And they're very much connected John. My understanding and talking to Republican sources is that a big reason if not the big reason Governor Ducey isn't already in the Senate race is because he understands the incoming he would get.

Undoubtedly, from Former President Donald Trump because, as you said, Ducey deign to stand up for the truth and the rule of law and not bend to his election lies. And that is a very real dynamic. For Larry Hogan it's a bit different because he's a very popular governor and a blue state. And it's more of a question about whether he wants to be a Senator after being a Governor for some time. Just, if I may, very quickly, there's one line in here that Manu got, which is just first of all, this interview was fantastic. I encourage everybody to read it. But when McConnell's talking, it's to this point about having winnable candidates.

He's talking about 2010, where there was a huge wave and Republicans in the House took over in the Senate they didn't make it and he said it took us six years to climb out of that hole because they lost Republican primaries with candidates who the candidates who could win statewide lost in the primaries, and that's what he's trying to avoid here.

KING: That's what he's trying to avoid. He remembers Claire McCaskill out of Missouri that - that one state that one state sticks with him quite well. Ayesha one of the interesting things is what will the issue terrain be?

We understand your COVID fatigue is going to be the number one issue. The economy will be with that along with that in the campaign, but McConnell makes the case that Democrats will get nothing on this big fight over voting rights.

He told Manu this. It's just as likely to be a liability for Democrats as it is for us. I think I can pretty confidently say we won't lose any elections over that issue anywhere in the country. And he goes on to list other issues that people are concerned with the border, Afghanistan COVID and the like. The Biden White House is who disagrees but this will be one of the big tests.

[12:20:00]

AYESHA RASCOE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Well, I mean, I think you're there they're talking about really things in two different ways. No, I don't think Republicans are going to lose because of the voting rights issue.

The argument that Democrats are making is that the actions that are being taken in these states will help Republicans by discouraging Democrats, right? Or by discouraging more people from voting by making it more difficult to vote when you have less people voting that that will - that will benefit Republicans.

I do think that it could be a liability for Democrats absolutely because in many ways, it has become a litmus test for Democratic supporters whether Biden is doing enough to live up to his promises. They said they are thinking about, he hasn't done voting rights.

He said that this is essential for democracy, and it hasn't happened. So I do think that it could be a liability, but it's really in different ways that we're looking at the voting rights issue.

KING: And Nicholas, McConnell is unique in some ways, in that he is a national Republican figure who has survived a constant fight with Donald Trump. And you could make the case he's even stronger now in a position to be reelected as Republican leader. He told Manu this. Well, I'm going to be running again in November and we'll see what happens later, not even ruling out, perhaps seeking another term as leader down the road. That is remarkable. If you talk to Senate Republicans, Trump has several times tried to get somebody to make a run on McConnell and Trump has failed.

NICHOLAS WU, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: Absolutely, I mean, McConnell seems to have only strengthened his position here. He's really tamp down some issues within this caucus he's helped ward off the right flank here and despite talk about what some folks on the Hill called it "The Battle of Three John's" by John Barrasso, Thune and Cornyn.

McConnell's lieutenants who, you know, at some point thought might be folks who could succeed him, McConnell looks like he wants to stay there and to have been able to not only try to bury the hatchet with Trump here, but also stand behind an incumbent who Trump has repeatedly targeted. Lisa Murkowski and Alaska really shows the skill at which McConnell has handled this situation.

KING: And Manu let me circle back to you to close. He's also very skilled at interviews. He's a very tough guy to crack. He's only going to say what he wants to say. So part of the challenge with Mitch McConnell is trying to translate based on your experience.

A, what he wouldn't say and B, how he chose his words on this idea that he can keep this detente with Trump throughout 2022? Does he really believe it? Or does even Mitch McConnell kind of his fingers crossed?

RAJU: I think he's got his fingers crossed on here. He doesn't exactly know ultimately what Donald Trump will do. Of course, he has not spoken to Donald Trump in more than a year. And they're simply on the same page just by happenstance in some ways.

In Pennsylvania, for instance, one candidate dropped out there, Sean Parnell, who had Donald Trump's endorsement at the time in Georgia, for instance, Herschel Walker. McConnell was concerned about him initially, Donald Trump got behind him now Mitch McConnell is behind them.

So he's uncertain how this will play out? But John Make no mistake about it he has commented these Republican candidates to embrace the election results. That was by no mistake, he want to make that very clear that that is an issue that Republicans get behind trustee elections.

KING: And we will watch to see if the former president decides to raise his hand? On that point fascinating interview fascinating months ahead of us as we go through primary season and then beyond. All right, the panel will be back. Manu thanks so much for the interview. Next, a big win for the January 6th Committee and a new grand jury in Georgia that only adds to Donald Trump's legal vows.

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[12:25:00]

KING: This news just into CNN, 10 members of the far right group the Oath Keepers pleaded not guilty to charges connected to the January 6 Capitol attack that includes seditious conspiracy, the most serious charges yet leveled by the Justice Department against any insurrection defendants.

The Group Leader Stuart Rhoades, you see him there was among the 10 who pleaded not guilty today that just one of several big legal developments related to Donald Trump and his big lie. One is a new grand jury in Georgia. We'll get to that in a moment.

Another is a big win for the January 6 Committee federal judge now ordering Former Trump Attorney John Eastman to sort through nearly 19,000 emails. Eastman was a leading big lie architect including pushing a plan to get then Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the 2020 election.

Eastman taught law at Chapman University at the time and he was fighting the January 6 Committee's efforts to see his university emails. But Judge David Carter ruling Eastman must go through those emails. And then if he wants to he can offer case by case objections if he wants to assert some privilege over some of the documents Judge Carter writing this.

The court expects the parties will work together with the urgency that this case requires. Our reporters are back with us and Dana Bash our Katelyn Polantz excellent reporter points out the significance here of the committee getting more documents from Mr. Eastman.

He says the admission from Eastman's Lawyer Charles Burnham are the clearest statements yet on how much Eastman was doing on Trump's behalf rather than on his own initiative in the days leading up to January 6?

The Committee is trying to piece together a timeline. How involved was the former president in trying to A, object to the election, then block the election then overturn the election? And then January 6 and this is part of the puzzle?

BASH: Absolutely, and I agree Katelyn is one of our best reporters and the fact that Donald Trump did not and does not text, he does not email. It doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be a paper trail on what he wanted which is the whole goal in getting these emails from John Eastman.