Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Retiring Justice Breyer Speaks At White House. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 27, 2022 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And that's actually true. Not all of his colleagues could say the same thing. But Justice Breyer is loved by his fellow colleagues, and he is very generous in spirit to the other ones.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: All right, everybody stand by. Let's bring in our chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, again, this is tribute to Breyer day, so we don't expect to hear a lot from the President of the United States about what comes next. But we do know his history. He was chairman of the Judiciary Committee. He was the chairman in fact, when Justice Breyer was the last of the justices confirmed to the Supreme Court when Biden was chairman of that committee, what do we know about how he approaches this process?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this is going to be fascinating because it is the lawmaker, who was then Senate Judiciary Chairman presiding over Breyer's hearing back in 1994 that is now the President standing next to him as he announces his retirement. And just to look at the past retirements that we've had from Supreme Court justices, you don't always see them appear at the White House. It's not always an event like this one. Sometimes it's the President remarking on the retirement at a separate event entirely. And the justice is not always present for that.

And so this is a small ceremony. You can see there, they are in the Roosevelt Room here at the White House, only a few reporters are in the room right now as the President and Justice Breyer are going to come out. And they've got such a history here just from not only President Biden presiding over that, but also from Justice Breyer himself, who we noted in a story that we wrote this morning, just detailing the history here and who's working in this White House.

Now, it was Biden's Chief of Staff Ron Klain, who actually interviewed Justice Breyer at one point before he was a justice when he was a contender to replace Byron White who had retired from the Supreme Court in the year prior. That is, of course, when President Clinton ultimately picked Ruth Bader Ginsburg to join the court. But he actually interviewed Justice Breyer at the time from his hospital bed where he was recovering from a bicycle accident. He had sustained some injuries there. He came to a meeting, had lunch with President Clinton at the White House back then, but to go from then in the early 1990s, to now to see that President Biden is back in the White House, Ron Klain is now as chief of staff, they're going to come out and talk about this retirement.

And then all eyes are going to turn to who is it that President Biden is going to pick. And we know that we heard from the Senate Judiciary chair earlier, he said that Ron Klain told him yesterday, they had not picked a replacement yet, that is something that they're in the process of right now. And then it will turn to the actual confirmation hearing. Those are the long hearings that stretch out on Capitol Hill after meetings with lawmakers. And of course, this is a big moment for President Biden coming out because he does have a coveted vacancy now on the Supreme Court and his chance to shape history.

KING: Kaitlan is going to stand by. Again, you're looking at a live picture of the Roosevelt Room there. We're waiting for the President and Justice Breyer to come in. Let's continue the conversation with our CNN power panel here. Our senior political correspondent Abby Phillip, our chief congressional correspondent Manu, legal analyst John Biskupic, still with us, Laura Coates and Steve Vladeck. Steve, I want to start with you in the sense that we can show up on the screen. You know, the court break down right now six conservatives, three liberals, the President of the United States with a new pick is not going to change. It's not going to change the picture of the court thing there.

But even if you're replacing a liberal judge with a liberal judge, each justice has a niche on the court. In Justice Breyer's case, he worked with Chief Justice Roberts to save the Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act. He was big on First Amendment cases. What does the court lose if you will, of the expertise of Stephen Breyer?

STEVE VLADECK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, John, it's obviously that this is a big gap. And Justice Breyer wasn't his expertise. It was as you say, he was comfortable crossing the, you know, perceived aisle. He was willing to work with Chief Justice Roberts, Justice Kennedy, before he retired. I think one of the questions of a Biden nominee is, will this person be someone who can forge new alliances with justices on the right? Is this someone who can perhaps team up with Neil Gorsuch, when it comes to the rights of criminal defendants and criminal cases? Is this someone who has the kind of administrative experience that might appeal to someone like Brett Kavanaugh? Or, John, are we going to see just a more focused, concentrated liberal block that, as you say, is not going to have the votes, is not going to move the court? I think that's what hangs in the balance based on who President Biden picks.

KING: Right. And Manu up on Capitol Hill, I talked a bit earlier with Paul Kane about the Democratic calculations. Did the Republicans see a big fight here, they have 50 votes, do they see a big fight here? Or if Biden makes a pick that they think is confirmable, do they just want this to go as quickly as possible?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really depends on who you talk to. There still have not settled on their strategy yet. The majority leader -- Minority Leader Mitch McConnell who wants to be majority leader come the fall has -- was held his cards pretty close when talking about the vacancy yesterday said he wanted to wait to weigh in exactly. They want to see who this person is. But undoubtedly what we could expect is whoever is nominated will be have most Republicans are almost certainly expected to vote against even one of the person who's in the top tier candidate here from Joe Biden's list. Ketanji Brown Jackson only had three Republicans vote in her favor for a lower court position but that's still enough to get confirmed.

[12:35:09]

So do expect a very loud Republican opposition to this, Republicans pushing back, but it's how far they can go is really limited given the fact that they simply do not have the votes if the Democrats take together if they do pick up a handful of their members. And also, John, in a key sign, Joe Manchin today said he's open to supporting a more liberal candidate than perhaps his own ideological philosophy. So a positive sign for the Biden White House going forward.

KING: And Abby Phillip, I may have to interrupt you, I'm sorry. But you see the First Lady and Justice Breyer's wife, they're waiting in the Roosevelt Room, they could walk in any second. Again, this is a day where you have tradition, as you look back, you pay tribute. But this is also an enormous opportunity for a president who begins the midterm, you're in a bit of a slump. This could be a reset moment.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it is an important one for the President. It's an opportunity for him to keep a promise. This was a very clear and specific promise that he made in the campaign to nominate a black woman to this court after 115 years or I'm sorry, 115 other justices.

KING: Abby, I'm sorry to interrupt. Abby Phillip, you see the President of the United States and Justice Stephen Breyer walking into the Roosevelt Room. Let's listen.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good afternoon. I'm going to begin by recognizing both Dr. Breyer and Dr. Biden and -- for being here. And I can't tell you, this is sort of a bittersweet day for me. Justice Breyer and I go back a long way, all the way back to the mid- 70s, when he first came on the Judiciary Committee, but that's another story.

I'm here today to express the nation's gratitude to Justice Stephen Breyer for his remarkable career of public service and his clear-eyed commitment to making our country's laws work for its people.

And our gratitude extends to Justice Breyer's family for being partners in his decades of public service. In particular, I want to thank his wife, Dr. Joanna Breyer, who is here today and who has stood by him for nearly six decades, and with her fierce intellect, good humor, and enormous heart. I want to thank you. The country owes you as well.

And Stephen Breyer's public service started early. He served in the United States Army as a teenager and in all three branches of the federal government before he turned 40. They were the good old days, weren't they? And as he was a law clerk to Supreme Court Justice Goldberg, a prosecutor in the Department of Justice, a member of the Watergate prosecution team. And I first met Stephen Breyer when I was a senator on the Judiciary Committee and he started off as taking care of one of the subcommittees for Teddy, but then became Chief Counsel during the tenure as Ted's chairman-- chairmanship of the Judiciary Committee.

Beyond his intellect and hard work and legal insight, he was famous for biking across Washington virtually every day for a face-to-face meeting with a Republican chief counsel, the ranking Republican counsel. And over breakfast, they'd discuss what would they do for the country together, whereas, in those days, we tried to do things together. They -- that spirit stuck with me when I took over the Judiciary Committee as Chair after Senator Kennedy's tenure.

And it was my honor to vote to confirm Justice Breyer to serve in the United States Supreme Court, the Court of Appeals first, in 1980. And then, 14 years later, in 1994, I got to preside as Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee over his Supreme Court confirmation hearings.

We were joking with one another when he walked in, did we ever think that he would have served decades on the Court and I'd be President of the United States on the day he came in to retire? I -- And he looked at it, anyway, I won't tell you what he said. I'm joking.

But I was proud and grateful to be there at the start of this distinguished career on the Supreme Court, and I'm very proud to be here today on his announcement of his retirement.

You know, during his confirmation hearings, way back in 1994, nominee Stephen Breyer said, quote, the law must work for the people. He explained to us his faith that our complex legal system has a single purpose, to help the people who make up our country. It was a different time, of course. But his brilliance, his values, his scholarship are why Judge Breyer became Justice Breyer by an overwhelming bipartisan vote at the time.

Today, Justice Breyer announces his intention to step down from active service after four decades, four decades on the federal bench and 28 years on the United States Supreme Court. His legacy includes his work as a leading scholar and jurist in administrative law, bringing his brilliance to bear to make the government run more efficiently and effectively.

[12:40:13]

It includes his stature as a beacon of wisdom on our Constitution and what it means. And through it all, Justice Breyer has worked tirelessly to give faith to the notion that the law exists to help the people.

Everyone knows that Stephen Breyer has been an exemplary justice, fair to the parties before him, courteous to his colleagues, careful in his reasoning. He's written landmark opinions on topics ranging from reproductive rights to healthcare, to voting rights, to patent laws, to laws protecting our environment, and the laws that protect our religious practices.

His opinions are practical, sensible, and nuanced. It reflects his belief that a job of a judge is not to lay down a rule, but to get it right, to get it right. Justice Breyer's law clerks and his colleagues, as many of the press here know, describe him and his work ethic, his desire to learn more, his kindness to those around him, and his optimism for the promise of our country. And he has patiently sought common ground and built consensus, seeking to bring the Court together.

I think he's a model public servant in a time of great division in this country. Justice Breyer has been everything his country could have asked of him. And he's appeared before -- when he appeared before the Judiciary Committee almost three decades ago, we all had high hopes for the mark he would leave on history, the law, and the Constitution. And he's exceeded those hopes in every possible way.

Today is his day, our day to commend his life of service and his life on the Court. But let me say a few words about the critically important work of selecting his successor. Choosing someone to sit on the Supreme Court, I believe, is one of the most serious constitutional responsibilities a President has. Our process is going to be rigorous. I will select a nominee worthy of Justice Breyer's legacy of excellence and decency.

While I've been studying candidates' backgrounds and writings, I've made no decisions except one, the person I will nominate will be someone with extraordinary qualifications, character, experience, and integrity, and that person will be the first Black woman ever nominated to the United States Supreme Court.

It's long overdue, in my view. I made that commitment during the campaign for President, and I will keep that commitment. I will fully do what I said I'd do. I will fulfill my duty to select a justice not only with the Senate's consent, but with its advice.

You've heard me say in other nomination processes that the Constitution says seek the advice and consent, but the advice as well of the Senate. I'm going to invite senators from both parties to offer their ideas and points of view. I'll also consult with leading scholars and lawyers. And I am fortunate to have advising me in this selection process, Vice President Kamala Harris. She's an exceptional lawyer, a former Attorney General of the State of California, a former member of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

I will listen carefully to all the advice I'm given, and I will study the records and former cases carefully. I'll meet with the potential nominees. And it is my intention, my intention to announce my decision before the end of February. I have made no choice at this point. Once I select a nominee, I'll ask the Senate to move promptly on my choice.

In the end, I will nominate a historic candidate, someone who is worthy of Justice Breyer's legacy and someone who, like Justice Breyer, will provide incredible service on the United States Supreme Court. Justice Breyer, on behalf of all the American people, I want to thank you and your family, and your family for your tremendous service to our nation. And I'm going to yield the floor to you, Mr. Justice.

JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER, SUPREME COURT: Well, thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. That is terribly nice. And believe me, I hold it right here. It's wonderful.

And I thought about what I might say to you. And I'd like to say something I enjoy is talking to high school students, grammar school students, college students, even law school students. And they'll come around and ask me what is the -- what is it you find particularly meaningful about your job? What, sort of, gives you a thrill?

And that's not such a tough question for me to answer. It's the same thing, day one almost up to day I don't know how many. But the -- what I say to them is, look, I sit there on the bench, and after we hear lots of cases and after a while, the impression, it takes a while, I have to admit. But the impression you get is, you know as you well know, this is a complicated country. There are more than 330 million people. And my mother used to say, it's every race. It's every religion. And she would emphasize this, and it's every point of view possible.

[12:45:24]

And it's a kind of miracle when you sit there and see all of those people in front of you --people that are so different in what they think. And yet, they've decided to help solve their major differences under law. And when the students get too cynical, I say, go look at what happens in countries that don't do that. And that's there. I take this around at my job. People have come to accept this Constitution, and they've come to accept the importance of a rule of law.

And I want to make another point to them. I want to say, look, of course people don't agree, but we have a country that is based on human rights, democracy, and so forth. But I'll tell you what Lincoln thought, what Washington thought, and what people today still think, it's an experiment. It's an experiment. That's what they said.

And Joanna paid each of our grandchildren a certain amount of money to memorize the Gettysburg Address. And the reason, the reason that -- what we want them to pick up there and what I want those students to pick up if I can remember the first two lines, is that, four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought -- created upon this -- here a new country, a country that was dedicated to liberty and the proposition that all men are created equal, conceived in liberty, those are his words and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. He meant women too.

And we are now engaged in a great civil war to determine whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. See, those are the words I want to see, an experiment. And that's what he thought. It's an experiment. And I found some letters that George Washington wrote where he said the same thing, it's an experiment. That experiment existed then because even the liberals in Europe, you know, they're looking over here, and they're saying, it's a great idea in principle, but it'll never work. But we'll show them it does. That's what Washington thought. And that's what Lincoln thought. And that's what people still think today.

And I say, oh, I want you, and I'm talking to the students now. I say, I want you to pick just this up, it's an experiment that's still going on. And I'll tell you something, you know who will see whether that experiment works? It's you, my friend. It's you, Mr. High School Students. It's you, Mr. College Student. It's you, Mr. Law School Students. It's us, but it's you. It's that next generation, and the one after that, my grandchildren and their children. They'll determine whether the experiment still works. And, of course, I am an optimist. And I'm pretty sure it will.

Does it surprise you that that's the thought that comes into my mind today? I don't know. But thank you.

BIDEN: Doctor, I don't know that you've ever been to the White House and the Lincoln Bedroom, but I invite both of you to come and stay. And the Lincoln Bedroom has, against the wall between the windows, looking out, a handwritten copy of the Gettysburg Address written by Lincoln, in that bedroom, allegedly -- the sitting room. And so, you've got to come and see it. And even if you can't come and stay, bring your grandchildren so they can see it as well.

Thank you all so very, very much for being here. And I'm not going to take any questions because I think it's inappropriate to take questions with the Justice here. He's still sitting on the bench, and I'll give you your mask back. And but you'll have plenty of opportunities to get me later today and for the rest of the week, and next week too.

So, thank you very much. Thank you.

KING: We're just listening for a second there. I'm talking in Washington listening. The president said he's going to take questions, reporters tried, just waiting to see if he answered. There you see a remarkable event. The President of the United States leaving the Roosevelt Room with Justice Stephen Breyer, Mrs. Biden, Mrs. Breyer, as well. The president accepting the planned resignation, retirement of Justice Breyer that will be later after his successor is nominated and confirmed. Moving remarks from the president, moving optimistic remarks from Justice Breyer as well. Let's get to two of the big headlines as we bring back our panel.

[12:50:10]

Laura Coates I want to start with you. I'm sorry, Kaitlan Collins, I'll start with you. Since there you are right there for me. The President said something very important about the process. He didn't want to talk much about it. But he said he would consult Republicans, do the vetting, interview the candidates, and he said he would be done in 30 days by the end of February. COLLINS: Yes, he confirmed he has not made a selection yet as -- for a successor for Justice Breyer. They're noting, of course, he is retiring, but not until the end of the term. That's why I said he did not want to take questions there at the end, but the President did say he is standing by that pledge that he made on the campaign trail to nominate the first Black woman to the Supreme Court, to put the first black woman on the Supreme Court and of course, mark a milestone therefore, with that decision.

But he said he has not selected the candidate yet and instead is going to conduct a rigorous process. And he said the qualifications that he is looking for his experienced, integrity, character, and he said he is going to consult Republican senators, Democratic senators, legal scholars, the Vice President of the United States on who his decision is going to be. And he did make some news there, John, setting himself a deadline, saying that he does expect to announce his pick by the end of February.

KING: And Laura Coates among our legal analysts with us today. We talked a little bit about this yesterday when we first learned word of this to her candidate Biden say if I get an opening, I will name a black woman is one thing. To hear the President of the United States standing in the White House next to an esteemed Justice Stephen Breyer, saying he wants a candidate who will be of high caliber, high quality, high character, and a Black woman is something else, that's history from the President of the United States.

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It is and it's profound. The all of those terms should be synonymous with Black women in and of itself and to hear it from the President of the United States to say it really rings true and brings it personal and home. Also to have the Supreme Court Justice say and talk about the value of different perspectives all but saying the value of diversity himself knowing that of course I'm sure on the shortlist is one of his own clerks, who is of course a Black woman, Judge Ketanji Brown.

And you also heard him say that he's also looking for the advice from the Vice President of the United States, Kamala Harris, who as you know, is a well-respected former attorney general, a lawyer, of course, and a prosecutor. And to have her be weighing in, in some facet on the people who will be chosen is really also exemplary. And it's a very, very wonderful day in terms of the qualifications that are being sought are the ones you want of a Supreme Court justice. I'm just very glad that it's finally happening, although it has taken far too long.

KING: And Abby Phillip, interesting to listen to Justice Breyer, a man who has been in Washington for a long time, and some people get cynical when they serve for a long time. Just to hear his optimism, almost childlike optimism. And he was talking to a group of reporters in the White House, but he said he was really talking to high school students and college students and the next generation of law students, he talks about the United States is kind of a miracle, and an experiment, but he held up the Constitution, he talked about how this is a country based on the rule of law. He knows full well, that because of Trump's big lie, because of some forces of the Republican Party that still want to dispute the last election. That actually is a live question in American political discourse right now, the rule of law, respect for law, respect for democracy, respect for voting rights, respect for math.

PHILLIP: Absolutely, I was so struck by his approach to his remarks it was almost like a sermon, a meditation on American democracy and the idea that we are in a moment in which there are some questions about whether this democracy can survive. And he repeatedly said, it's an experiment, it is an experiment. But he's hopeful that it will persist because of perhaps the people who come behind him. But again, it's something that it just reminds me of, he has been someone who, especially in the last year, as he's been under so much pressure to step aside.

He has been saying publicly that he wants a return to norms, not just around the court itself, but also around how this country understands how the rule of law works. He seems like someone who is very concerned about that and very worried about it, and that's what he was trying to convey today.

KING: And Joan Biskupic, you know the departing justice quite well and you know his optimistic spirit there. He talked about, you know, it's a complicated country, 330 million people how his mother told him respect every, every point of view out there. You also know from your many conversations with him. He understands the court, the court itself, the place where he has dedicated 28 years of his life is incredibly complicated right now, too.

BISKUPIC: That's right, John, and these are themes that have been enduring for Justice Breyer. When he was in the Rose Garden back in 1994, when President Bill Clinton first saluted him as his choice for the Supreme Court. He talked about the workings of Washington. He talked about government working. He talked about the rule of law. And he has held fast to that it's just that now it's all the more important.

[12:55:06]

And I have to say that, you know, what everyone saw there was just so quintessential Breyer, you know, he kind of leans forward on the lectern. As you said, John, you know, it could have been a group of high school students. He is -- I'm sure that this is a very bittersweet moment for him to take a word that President Biden used, because he has really loved his job. He is committed to the Constitution and democracy and the rule of law. And I know that he's -- he will have a lot of confidence in whoever President Biden chooses.

As Laura said, one of his former clerks is there. He has a deep affection and respect for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. But I think he also is the kind of man who would respect the process and not want to meddle too much with what President Biden would do and would respect in the end, because that is one thing I have to say about him. Despite, you know, so much, many of us in Washington, you know, are so aware of the cynicism that has gripped the Capitol today. And somehow, Stephen Breyer has been able to escape that, as we all just saw, playing out just a few minutes ago.

KING: He shares with the president of stubborn Irish optimism. I will say that. Manu Raju let's go up to Capitol Hill to talk about that process. Justice Breyer as Joan noted, will respect it. The President gave us pretty good clues of how he expected to play out by saying that, yes, he's going to do a lot of work. Yes, he's going to listen to Republicans and Democrats, but that he will have a nominee. He certainly hopes 30 days, maybe 32, 33 days. But by the end of February, what would that do to the timetable if the president moves that quickly?

RAJU: Well, they still want to move quickly in the Senate, the Democrats do to get to the actual confirmation vote even though Breyer has said in his letter that he's not going to step aside till the end of the term, which is June or July, Democrats believe that they plan -- they can essentially do all the confirmation process beforehand. So if this -- let's just say if Joe Biden nominates someone by end of February, that potentially means according Chuck Schumer's timetable that he has in his mind, potentially a confirmation vote by the end of March or even into early April, April, they want to go on that same clip, as they did, as the Republicans did to get Amy Coney Barrett confirmed back in 2020.

At that time, Democrats were howling in protest, said it was rushed and also criticized for happening so close to the election. Of course, that came after Mitch McConnell will hold up a Supreme Court nominee in the Obama era in 2016 in the election year, because he said it was too close to the election. So this process will undoubtedly become very partisan, even though Joe Biden suggested that this could be a bipartisan process in some way.

Undoubtedly, it'll devolve into partisan sniping. Nevertheless, the process will unfold like this, eventually there will be a nominee made, that nominee will make visits to Capitol Hill will meet with some members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, there'll be a questionnaire that will the nominee will also undergo a background check. And Democrats then will have to move forward in deciding when to set hearings. And Dick Durbin today, John, did not indicate he's a chairman of the Judiciary Committee did not say when he plans to have those hearings.

But undoubtedly, they're going to push this hard, push it fast and try to get their entire 15 member caucus in line and potentially pick off a few Republicans as well.

KING: Will be working with a President who has a lot of experience at that hearing process. We'll see if that's a plus or a minus, as we move forward through the process right there. Steve Vladeck, as we wait for the who, the President promised the historic pick of Black woman for this vacancy. Let's talk a little bit about the what. Again, the just -- the conservatives have six votes. The liberals will have three votes even with Breyer now and then with the replacement.

So the ideological balance does not change. But it's easy to say that that does not mean that the -- what happens on the court, big issues on the court, the inner workings of the personalities and relationships on the court. A lot will change when you replace one justice, especially a long serving justice with relationships with the other side with the new justice, correct?

VLADECK: A lot will change John. And, you know, keep in mind that we're talking about a nominee who's going to be perhaps in her 40s or 50s. So things may not change overnight, but the court as an institution is so conservative in the historical sense, things evolve, typically so slowly. So this is a real opportunity for a long term shift, maybe not in the center of gravity on the court, but at least in some of the perspectives.

And, John, in that respect, I mean, Justice Breyer could have chosen any speech, any remarks to focus on in his remarks from the White House, and he picked the Gettysburg Address right after President Biden and said he's sticking to his pledge to nominate a black woman. Justice Breyer, no dummy, is picking the speech that most closely ties our constitutional idea as a country to racial equality.

[12:59:46]

And I think that's not an accident. I think that is Breyer signaling his support as much as he can for President Biden's commitment. And I think as, you know, as Laura put it, this is a historic opportunity for the first Black woman justice. We've had 115 justices so far, only seven have been not white men whatever the substantive views of the nominee is, John, having that additional diversity on the court certainly moves the court forward as an institution, even if it takes a while for us all to see it.