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NYT: McConnell & Allies Try To Curb Trump Ahead Of Midterms; 1/6 Cmte Expects Giuliani To "Cooperate Fully" With Subpoena; Timeline For Authorizing Vaccine For Kids Under 5 Pushed Back. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 14, 2022 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: But, but so this is what J Mart writes in his piece in "The Times" in conversations with senators and would be senators, Mr. McConnell is blunt about the damage he believes Mr. Trump has done to the GOP. Privately, he has declared he won't let unelectable goofballs win Republican primaries. This is one of the reasons Phil he wants Governor Ducey to run in Arizona. Arizona could be in 2022. What you mentioned the Tea Party what Missouri was back in 2014, where you get a candidate in a 50-50 state. Missouri is no longer 50-50. It wasn't even 5050 then really. It was starting to trend away. But you get a candidate in a state where there are enough Democrats, especially if the independents break. That's McConnell's worry as he pursues power, but Ducey is one of the guys Trump has gone after hard. The question is, do you want to -- do personally want to deal with that?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I think to some degree, perhaps he might not say it publicly. But I think Republicans might want to see that actually play out, right? They want to test that case, they want to see because and Jim actually hits at this a couple times a piece in a very smart manner of that will determine if Ducey runs and wins, that is a huge shot across the bow for Trumpism to where more Republicans might be willing to stand up and say some of the things that so many of them tell us behind the scenes but are terrified to say publicly.

I think Dana hits at the most critical point here. You cannot overstate the lessons learned from Sharron Angle and Todd Akin and that witch lady from Delaware, whatever.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine O'Donnell.

MATTINGLY: Christine O'Donnell, because for McConnell that informs everything he does. And you look at it, he's not going after all Trump back candidates, right, his willingness to accept, accommodate, and endorse Herschel Walker, I think surprised some of us, but it's also reality. He looked at the numbers. He has the numbers and realizes that's the best shot they believe they have in the state of Georgia to win, to knock off Raphael Warnock. When he looks around and sees other potential candidates, particularly the roster in Arizona. He says I can't win that race, or I very likely may not win that race with that candidate. I need to figure out a way to get it out. This is the one I'm going to do try to make that.

KING: Right. And so you look at this map, the Senate race is up in 2022, 34 seats up 14 Democrat held seats, 20 GOP seats, the Democrats are lucky they're not defending any states that Trump won. So that helps you in this campaign here. So if you're McConnell, you're worried maybe we're going to lose Pennsylvania, and maybe it's possible we lose somewhere else. So can we get a pick up? That's why he wanted Hogan to run, right? So you have a state like Maryland, where have a popular Republican governor, you want him to run to see if you can pick one up. Listen to Governor Hogan when he says nope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): I think they're, you know, sometimes focused on the wrong things, not just being a roadblock, roadblock to Biden, we want to make sure that we do stand up and speak out. But I'm concerned that they're focusing too much on looking at the past and, you know, trying to re-litigate the last election and arguing about things instead of having a positive hopeful vision for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So his point, why do I -- why run now, when so many Republicans are talking about Trump's big lies, bring Trump's big lie. Now, he also perhaps has presidential ambitions. He made the call, I'm not getting on the ballot this year having Trump beat me up. And then, you know, and then could, which could if you're going to be Republican, hurt your future.

FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, MCCLATCHY: And this could be a good year for Republicans. I mean, certainly Even Democrats are acknowledging that. But when you look at the map, take states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, there's also a really important argument that's being made here by both political parties about 2024 and states that are essentially could be in play in 2024 and why you need to have strong candidates run strong ground games in those states heading into that next presidential election. So you have those resources build up in order to have 2024 and be able to challenge Joe Biden.

KING: Be a great 2022 to do Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, Arizona, just keep rotating. Just keep you learn a lot. You'll learn a lot about this year and what's to come.

[12:33:35]

Up next, Rudy Giuliani we all know was Donald Trump's right hand man and trying to overturn the 2020 election results. Is he really ready to cooperate with the January 6th Committee?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: The January 6th Committee is negotiating with a star witness Rudy Giuliani and members of the panel are voicing hope he cooperates. Giuliani was scheduled to appear before the committee last week. But that was postponed because of these ongoing discussions. Remember, we all know he was a key lieutenant, a Trump lieutenant in spreading the big lie and recruiting allies in key states and here in Washington to try to block certification of the election. So Giuliani could be, could be a breakthrough witness. Our panel, our reporters back with us to discuss. I say could be because I'm sorry, I'm skeptical. I just want to read from "The New York Times." This is "The New York Times," Mr. Giuliani through his lawyer has signaled to the committee that he plans to take a less confrontational stance toward the request, than some other members of Mr. Trump's inner circle, that would be a breakthrough witness if you could get it, but really?

BASH: And also what is less confrontational major means. It I'm not going to force you to subpoena me. But I'll come in and I won't answer any of your questions. I mean can you imagine a scenario where he doesn't claim attorney-client privilege or, you know, you could even see a scenario where he would claim, you know, executive privilege even though there would be absolutely no basis for it since he didn't actually work in the White House. The point being that it would be very surprising if he gave up anything to them unless there was some larger case that he's thinking about where he's looking out for his own immunity, but it just I don't see him making that deal with Congress. That's not where you make it because he's got bigger fish to fry.

KING: And he's involved with everybody, including the former president, but then also all of the I'm going to call them group of lawyers. They don't really -- their own version of law but ish, from election night through inauguration day including just last week "The Washington Post" headline Giuliani asked Michigan prosecutor to give voting machines to hey, hey, can you just turn on your voting machines to us, yes, we are we're trying to Jedi up some. But he knows everything about everything essentially. He was involved anyway, he knows a lot from Election Day through Inauguration Day, if he would cooperate, wow, for the committee, but I'm just skeptical.

[12:40:24]

CHAMBERS: Well, and to your point, when you start talking, it's a lot harder to stop talking during some of those committees. But at the same time, you also have to look at the way Republicans are looking at this. And even those Republicans who are allies of Trump have long said that they want to distance themselves from Rudy Giuliani on this, right. They think that he did a real disservice to the former president on this, and certainly don't want to hear him or anyone else tying this back to the Senate races we were talking about before out there talking about how the election was stolen. And all of these things, they don't find that particularly helpful to their argument about why the GOP should retake control of this.

KING: Right, right, which I get people say that, but we should also be clear, there's no evidence that he didn't have the former president's support the entire time throughout what he was doing. So yes, he did him a disservice because he should have said, no. So let's listen to Adam Kinzinger. He's one of the two Republicans on the Committee. He says yes, would be a good witness. But listen to the back half of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL), JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE: We fully expect that in accordance with the law, we'll hear from Rudy. But look, regardless of when we hear from Rudy, or how long that interview is, we're getting a lot of information. And we're looking forward to wrapping this up at some point when that is right, showing it to the American people, but not rushing it not hurrying this. We want everybody to have the full story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Number one, we're looking forward to wrapping this up. He understands mostly Democrats, the committee, but two Republicans, there's an election this year. And so, if the Democrats lose the House, then this committee goes away, or the Republicans turn it into something very different. He seems to be indicating there, we'll negotiate with Giuliani, we'll negotiate maybe fight some court battles with a couple other people, but there's a date, they have a date in the back of their mind somewhere that we're done because we got to start building a rapport and having public hearings,

MATTINGLY: I think that they very clearly have a timeline. They haven't explicitly laid it out. I think Adam Kinzinger is not going to be in Congress next year. Liz Cheney may not be in Congress after the midterms, which is obviously still up in the air. I think one thing that that he hinted at, which we've all heard a lot we don't have the full sense of right now is, you know, they've had interviews with roughly 500 people, right? They've gotten millions of documents, every once in a while, every couple of weeks, something kind of leaks out that they've gotten or that lawyers have handed over to them. It gives you a sense, we learned more about something that we thought we knew everything about almost every other week right now.

So if that's what we're seeing in the public domain, imagine what they have in the private domain. I think that the interviews themselves are helpful. It's certainly in Rudy's case, given how central he was to all these things. It would be a critical witness no question about it. I think they know a lot about a lot that we don't even know about at this point in time and I think Kinzinger, he kind of hinted at that there. If he wants to come in, that's great. If it doesn't, well, pretty good right now.

KING: They're doing what you do every day as a reporter, sure, you'd like to talk to the chief of staff but you talked to the Chief of Staff's assistant or deputy they know things too. The people who see the documents, hold the documents, move the schedule along, that's where they've had great success.

[12:43:03]

And up next for us, why the FDA hit the brakes on green lighting a COVID vaccine for children under five and what we know about the timeline now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: The big delay now for parents hoping to get a COVID vaccine approved for very young children. FDA experts were supposed to meet tomorrow to discuss Pfizer's proposal to vaccinate children ages six months through five years. But that meeting now postponed for about two months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: There was additional data that was submitted to the FDA late last week on Thursday and Friday. That changed the FDA's perception of the absolute efficacy of the vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get some insights now from Dr. Edith Bracho-Sanchez. She's a pediatrician at Columbia University's Irving Medical Center, Doctor, grateful for your time today. I'm just putting up for our viewers to see what happened here. They're waiting for three dose data now. They want three dose data from the clinical study to be available in early April. Obviously, the Omicron surge has contributed to these efficacy worries. There are about 18 million children ages six months through four years old, whose parents many of whom were hoping for a vaccine. What happened here? And what are your big questions at this moment?

DR. EDITH BRACHO-SANCHEZ, PRIMARY CARE PEDIATRICIAN, COLUMBIA UNIV. IRVING MEDICAL CENTER: Yes, John, thanks for having me. I think first I'll say that I'm one of those parents. My own little guy is going to be six months in March. And as a pediatrician, you know, this is of course, frustrating. But I think warranted. I think the best we know that happened here and everything we know, we know from press releases, none of us have seen the data. But what we know is that two doses may not have been enough to induce the immune response that we're hoping to get in this age group.

I think the efficacy is really what's at stake here. And what we're hoping to gather more data on with this potential third dose. The safety however, John, and this is important to remember, the safety data is there, it is sound, this vaccine is safe. What we're waiting for is a potential third dose that will get the immune response that we want in this age group.

KING: And so let me dwell on that point a little bit in the sense that people will say, you know, the skeptics out there, especially the anti-vaxxers, who spread misinformation all the time, will say, aha, aha, there's no question about the safety of these vaccines. I've had four shots. I'm immunocompromised so I've been boosted. There's no issue with the safety. The question here is more, is it two doses or three doses? What's the right formula? Because these are young children who are growing so fast, et cetera, right?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: That's right, John, and I actually hope that this move will boost people confidence in vaccines. I think it's important to remember that vaccines are not guaranteed. We don't automatically give green lights to every vaccine that is proposed to present it to the FDA and I think it's important to know that science takes as long as it takes that we're not cutting corners. So I'm actually hoping as frustrating as it is, and I get it, I absolutely get it. I'm hoping that this move is actually going to make people feel better about the process that goes on behind the scenes, John.

[12:50:24]

KING: Well, let's talk a little more broadly about as we wait and see what happens next with the youngest children and where we are at the moment. And I just want to bring up this is encouraging, if you look at it this way, cases are down on average 42 percent, from a week ago, hospitalizations down 23 percent, from a week ago, even deaths finally have plateaued too high of a level but finally have plateaued and start to drop 7 percent since just a week ago.

You're in New York City, I just want to show New York City, the orange line here is all ages, the red line is children zero to four, you just see the Omicron peak, and we are way down here now. So do you feel in a sense, especially for your young child, you're frustrated, you have to wait. But you're waiting now in a much better situation, right? How do things look to you in the big picture right now?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: I think in the big picture, this is very hopeful data, I think this is good news, we'll take the good news where we can get them. I personally have been keeping my child home from daycare hoping that Omicron numbers will go down. It is impossible. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to lose my mind, John. And it's really, really hard. My concern is though, that as we look at this, and we say look, the numbers are coming down, we're starting to sort of feel like this is the new normal.

And I worry, John, that this is just going to be the price of doing business in America that we're going to come to terms and get used to over 2,000 people dying in our country every day from this illness. So as hopeful as we are I just hope that we take the value of human life seriously and that we don't just get used to these numbers.

KING: Well, in that point you're talking about there is, one of the conversations I keep having with the experts trying to find it is, where's the sweet spot? This is vaccinations, right, fully vaccinated United States ages 18 and over around 75 percent, if you look at the gold line 12 to 17 about 57 percent, younger children, those who are available five to 11, we can get a vaccine about 24 percent. So you still have this population. Yes, cases are coming down. Where are we in the context, the D.C. mayor, for example, just today says he's going to stop requiring businesses to check for vaccine cards and the mask mandate will expire at the end of the month. Good, too soon?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Way too soon, John, way too soon. For people like me who have young children at home for kids who need to go to school, it is way, way, way too soon. And I get it we have to give people hope. I get it. The politicians are making these decisions and that they're trying to give people a sense of normalcy to feel a little bit better. So they get reelected and whatever else agenda they have going on. But it is way too soon. We have to ground this on data, John, and we're just not there yet. KING: Dr. Bracho-Sanchez, grateful for your time today. We'll continue this conversation as we walk through I think the next several weeks. It's going to be fascinating to test all of these theories. Appreciate it very much.

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Of course.

KING: Up, next four years after the mass shooting in Florida's Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, a father's dramatic act to urge President Biden to help, to act on gun reform.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:57:42]

KING: Topping our Political Radar today, at least three people are in custody after a Parkland father climbed a crane near the White House to hang a banner calling for gun control, this of course, four years after his son was killed in that Florida high school shooting. Video shows Manuel Oliver being led away by police in handcuffs. It's unclear if he will face any charges.

President Biden marked his shooting anniversary in a statement this morning and pointed to his plan to curb gun violence and reduce violent crime. The busiest land border crossing in North America is now finally reopened. The Ambassador Bridge which links Detroit with Windsor, Ontario was the site of a nearly week long blockade that stemmed from truckers opposing Canada's new vaccine mandate. The bridge standoff ended overnight after Canadian police made several arrests and towed away vehicles but protests still continuing in Canada's capital, Ottawa.

For the first time, in this video, we're hearing directly from Senator Ben Ray Lujan, that after he suffered a stroke. The New Mexico Democrat says he's doing well and he's strong and will be back in the Senate, listen, just weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BEN RAY LUJAN (D-NM): I'm going to walk you out here. I'm going to beat this and I'm going to be stronger once I come out. I'll be back on the floor of the United States Senate in just a few short weeks to vote on important legislation and to consider a Supreme Court nominee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Scary moment today in Louisville, Kentucky. The police department says mayoral candidate Craig Greenberg was the target of a shooting this morning. There are no injuries but the police chief says around did appear to strike Greenberg's clothing. The department also says one person is in custody. Greenberg tweeting this, my team and I fortunately all safe. We are with the LMPD now. I will provide an update as soon as possible. Thank you for the outpouring of support

Cut outs of the Biden's new puppy, Commander, and their new cat, Will, take a look among the Valentine's Day decorations installed by the First Lady Jill Biden outside the White House today. Inside this artwork designed by a D.C. second grade class. Those second graders arrived at the White House this hour, the First Lady to give them a tour.

This quick programming note Presidents Day weekend CNN is premiering a new original series focused on the life of the presidency of Lyndon Baines Johnson. President Johnson passed major legislation like the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. But his decision to escalate the war in Vietnam, of course, overshadowed his legacy. See how his presidency was as complicated as the times he served, when LBJ triumph and tragedy premiere February 20th, 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here only on CNN.

[12:59:58]

Thanks for joining us in Inside Politics today. Don't forget you can also listen to our podcast, download Inside Politics wherever you get your podcasts. I hope to see you back here tomorrow. Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.