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Inside Politics

Trump Adviser: "We Have A Playbook Now"; Trump Smears Biden, Special Counsel After Court; Trump Fundraises Off Indictment And Looming Trial; Sources: Trump To Keep Traveling With Co-Defendant; Soon: Garland Speaks For First Time After Trump In Court; Judge Outlines Strict Guidelines For Trump; Trump Classified Docs Case Moves Into Next Phase; Former Trump Attorney Talks Indictment, Trial; Pence: "I Cannot Defend" Trump. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 14, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on Inside Politics, Donald Trump defies legal advice 101. The former president followed his arraignment with a lie filled speech. He also made a big admission about the classified documents at the center of the special counsel indictment.

Plus, Mike Pence now says he cannot defend Trump's conduct, while Nikki Haley is trying to get her answer just right. She brands Trump's conduct as reckless, but then dangles a potential party. And the House speaker breaks a floor freeze by conceding more to hardliners, establishment Republicans say he'll soon run out of things to give away.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

Up first, Donald Trump celebrates his 77th birthday today back at his New Jersey golf club. But whether he considers this a gift depends on whom you ask and what you believe. Look at the front pages of today's major papers, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, every headline splashes the former president's arraignment on a one in big bold face type.

The indictment is the political story of the moment. Trump followed his federal court appearance with a defiant speech to his team, the politics are clear and winning. What is also clear, Mr. Trump is not helping his lawyers every time he talks about the facts. Like this one, that might not be admissible in the potential courtroom with a fight with the special counsel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I hadn't had a chance to go through all the boxes. It's a long tedious job, it takes a long time, which I was prepared to do, but I have a very busy life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Let's get straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes, who is in New Jersey. Kristen, you've been working your sources like you always do. And you've got some new information this morning. What are you learning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. So, I spoke to a number of advisers last night and today about what exactly this indictment means. How are they going to move forward with their campaigning. And I am told that they feel like they have a Trump indictment playbook now that they believe that they can navigate this.

Now, I do want to say one thing. They do not believe this is a good situation. We know the former president has complained about it. He does not want to be indicted. But they do feel like they understand better now after that last indictment, after Manhattan arraignment. How exactly to handle this and this impart is by taking control of the public narrative by playing this out in the court of public opinion.

You saw that in part last night with Donald Trump when he took to the stage. Take a listen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Today, we witnessed the most evil and heinous abuse of power in the history of our country. This is called election interference. This day will go down in infamy and Joe Biden will forever be remembered as not only the most corrupt president in the history of our country, but perhaps even more importantly, the president who together with a band of his closest thugs, misfits and Marxists tried to destroy American democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And it's no surprise at all that they are trying to take control the narrative that they're trying to paint this as political. They pointed me to that stop at the Riverside Cafe as part of this strategy. They knew that there was not going to be any cameras, any real images other than those sketches of Trump from the courthouse. So, they wanted to take control of the narrative by putting out these positive images on a day that is not a positive day, its federally charged.

The other part of this that I am told, is just continuing to campaign for president. Last night, he had a fundraiser. I'm holding his hobnobbing with donors. He was asking them what they thought about the arrangement. At one point, he was asking how he looked on the television. He wants to continue to work with, continue to go to speeches.

But Dana, I was with him in Georgia over the weekend. As these legal problems mount up, it is clear that it is consuming, and he spent a majority of his speeches talking about this. And there are questions, real questions about whether or not this is going to lead to some sort of Trump fatigue that if you can really carry on this kind of legal burden and run for president.

BASH: It is one of the questions that not only his team is asking, but his opponents are asking in the Republican nomination fight. Kristen, thank you so much for that new reporting. Here to share their reporting at the table is CNN's Jeff Zeleny, Seung Min Kim, forgive me, of the Associated Press, and Leigh Ann Caldwell of The Washington Post. Nice to see you all.

[12:05:00]

So, Jeff, I want to start with you. And I actually want to probably say that I have had the experience that I'm guessing all of you had with the inbox infiltrated by the Trump campaigns fundraising appeals. I mean, it just kept coming last night, when you arrest your leading political opponent, we no longer have a democracy. 400 years in prison. My thought this is from his son, my father has been arraigned at the Miami federal courthouse. I mean, these were just coming nonstop.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They are and that's obviously part of the strategy to flood the zone. I thought it was interesting. One thing that Kristin said, and I've been hearing that as well, it's consuming him, but it's also consuming and flooding into this race. And that contributes to the Trump exhaustion.

So, we know one thing in the short term, the arraignment was certainly better than an arraignment should be. He made the best, he made lemonade out of an arraignment day, let's (crosstalk) that. But reality is, we know that there's Trump fatigue out there. We know that many Republicans want to turn the page. So, this contributes to it. But clearly, he is trying to blend the courtroom to the campaign trail to make this all about him.

But you wonder if that's what Republicans want to talk about. Many Republicans want to make this race about Joe Biden. They want to make this race about inflation, they want to win back the White House. So, nothing that has happened in the last a few days since we've learned about this arraignment. It's maybe helped Donald Trump, but it has not helped the effort of winning back the White House. So that is what is sort of an odds here.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, EARLY 202 CO-AUTHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes. Building off what you just said. I just talked to a Republican donor this morning, who is helping to recruit people in down ballot races and Senate in the House. And this person said that there's widespread concern that these candidates are not going to talk, be able to talk about the economy, about the border, about inflation. Instead, there's a lot of concern that Donald Trump is just going to suck up all the oxygen in a 2024 election and leave little room for what they actually want to campaign on.

BASH: And let's be clear, obviously, we are talking about it today, extensively, because it happened yesterday. But we're also talking about it because he keeps talking about it. He didn't just kind of ignore it and then move on to taking Joe Biden to task on the economy. He talked about himself. And as much as he has that sort of public provider as much as the campaign is saying that they believe that this at least in the short term is a political win.

Something that his former chief of staff, John Kelly said in The Washington Post, really drew our attention. I just want to read it. Here's what he said. He's scared s-less, figure it that out. This is the way he compensates for that. He gives people the appearance, he doesn't care by doing this. For the first time in his life, it looks like he's going to be held accountable. Up until this point in his life, it's like, I'm not going to pay you. Take me to court. He's never been held accountable before.

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Right. And I think that's sort of, if you look at some of the reporting out there that says, publicly he is projecting this air of confidence. He's really trying to seize this as an opportunity to bolster his campaign profile. But internally, I mean, these are very serious charges. And it is not just these charges in federal court. It is not just the hush money payment accusations, New York. He has two more potential indictments coming in other criminal matters. I mean, these are very serious charges.

And again, he can try to make some, you know, lemons out of lemonade, but the lemons are initially sour in the first place. He's not dealing with a very good situation at all. And just as a contrast, as he tries to talk about Biden and as Republicans want to try to focus more on Biden and the economy, this -- the White House, the president is kind of burying their heads in the sand, deliberately staying quiet about it. And I think for them, this creates a contrast that they actually like that they are doing their jobs, they aren't doing normalcy, and this is the chaos in the Republican Party.

BASH: Yes. No, that's a good point. We're actually going to talk about that later in the show, as well. I want you guys to stand by because I want to go back to Kristen Holmes. Kristen, I understand you have some new reporting about the former president codefendant Walt Nauta. What are you hearing?

HOLMES: That's right, Dana. So, I talked to a number of advisors again last night and today, who say that nothing is going to change with his body man and codefendant Walt Nauta. Meaning that he will continue to travel with him. Walt will continue to travel with the former president. He will be at campaign stops and he will be in Bedminster with him. He was there last night.

Now a couple of things to note on this. One, is that there were a lot of questions as to what exactly would happen. As we know, a judge ordered them not to have any communication about this case unless it was through their lawyers. There was also questions as to whether or not, Walt would find another attorney or seek to separate himself with -- from the former president. And right now, that does not appear to be happening in any way.

[12:10:00]

I'm also told that not only did Walt fly back to New Jersey with the former president and several of their advisors, but so did Walt's attorney and former President Trump's attorney. There had been a lot of conversation about how the two of them get on a plane after a day like yesterday and don't fully talk about the case.

Well, both of their attorneys were there, likely to make sure that that didn't happen. So, one thing to note there again, we're watching to see how this plays out. We still don't know the other witnesses that the prosecutors are going to say cannot communicate with the former president about this case.

BASH: So interesting, Kristen. Thank you so much. And everybody here standby because we want to take that new reporting that Kristen just gave us and talk more about the legal strategy and the fact that Donald Trump seems to be making his lawyers lives a whole lot harder. I'm going to talk to somebody who just had that job, no longer though. Stay with us. You'll hear from him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: In minutes, we'll see the attorney general of the United States Merrick Garland. He talks at the top of the hour. And it's the first, we're going to hear from him since the arraignment of Donald Trump, whether he's going to discuss the indictment is TBD, also TBD how Mr. Trump plans to put on his legal defense. And if the former president can stick to some tricky legal guidelines laid down by a federal judge yesterday.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is in Miami. She was in the courtroom. She heard with their own ears. She saw with their own eyes exactly what went down. Katelyn, what are you hearing?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Dana, there was many moment yesterday, where Donald Trump is being told by the judge and signing documents that he acknowledges what he has to do now that he's been arrested and as a criminal defendant, in the system awaiting trial.

And one of the things that is going to be so interesting in watching this coming forward, Dana, is that Donald Trump now has the structure of the justice system around him. And that if he doesn't follow the rules that the judge is setting, he could face consequences. And some of those rules are about what he can say to other people.

So, one of the things that Trump agreed to acknowledged as part of his release conditions yesterday, is that he is not allowed to discuss this case with any other witnesses that the Justice Department provides him on the list. So, they don't have that list yet. We don't know who exactly it is. It will include his co-defendant, Walt Nauta, this man who is traveling and working with him still.

But there's a lot of people that are potential witnesses, in this case, who are around Trump on a daily basis. They are Secret Service protectees, there are people who work for his political operation, who are his aides traveling with him.

And so, if he talks with them about the details of this case, before it goes to trial, where they might be called to testify, he could run into some real problems. The judge could have to deal with this. And one of the things that happens if you violate your bond in the system is the Justice Department can ask to detain you. Dana? BASH: OK, Katelyn, thank you so much for that. And joining me now is former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore. He's here with me at the table. Let's just start with what you just heard from Katelyn, knowing your former client, the former president, is he going to be able to restrain himself refrain from discussing this with other witnesses, which happens to be a guy who's with him all the time?

TIM PARLATORE, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: I think he can, because really, it does permit him to discuss the case with them as long as the lawyers are present. And I think that the going forward, the lawyers are probably going to be present a lot more, more often.

You know, I had experience with this, you know, back in the beginning of the January 6 committee investigation, where one of my clients Bernie Kerik went down to meet with them, we instruct them both not talking about the case. And when Bernie walked in, the first thing the president said to him was, the lawyers told me not to talk about January 6, so we're not going to do it.

BASH: Yes. But it's one thing for somebody who comes and pays a visit, and other thing for the guy who gets you a diet cokes all day.

PARLATORE: Correct, correct. But I think that with the -- with the constant presence of the attorneys, which I would expect to be more often going forward, that that's going to be something that they can handle.

BASH: I want to play for you what the former president said in his speech last night about specifics, about the case and what he says he did and why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hadn't had a chance to go through all the boxes. It's a long tedious job. It's takes a long time, which I was prepared to do, but I have a very busy life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Is that helpful to his case?

PARLATORE: Yes. It's -- whether it's helpful or not, it's going to be up to the trial attorney.

BASH: What do you think? You were his attorney on this for a while.

PARLATORE: I know that the first 15 boxes that we will return to NARA. And my understanding is that he ordered them brought up by Walt, that he could go through them before returning them. And then because he was too busy, he didn't go through them.

When I went through them at the National Archives, it was clear that they hadn't been gone through because there was a lot of other extraneous stuff in there that could have been removed. Things even post presidency. BASH: Right. But, OK, so that's the content. I'm just talking about the notion of him discussing this in public at all. Should he stop doing that?

PARLATORE: My general preference with any client is don't talk about the case in public, let your lawyer do all the talking for you. But having a client who's also a presidential candidate is a unique experience, to say the least.

BASH: That was a very diplomatic. One of the key questions, as you well know, is about intent.

PARLATORE: Sure.

BASH: And so, what I have been wondering, what everybody has been wondering, and you might be able to shed light on this. Why? Why was he so determined to keep these documents even in the face of not just regular conversation as so many previous presidents and even vice presidents have had to do with the National Archives, but in the face and a defiance of a criminal subpoena.

[12:20:00]

PARLATORE: Well, I think that when it comes to that, you have to kind of separate this into two phases. You know, there's the narrow phase, and then there's the DOJ phase. OK. And so, during that phase, where he's negotiating with NARA, you know, that's nobody's talking about classified documents at that time. They're just talking about presidential records, what's personal was presidential.

And then it's only when the Justice Department gets involved that they start talking about classified documents, and the Justice Department begins that with a criminal grand jury subpoena. And you know, whether you agree with it or not, whenever you come at somebody with that type of a process, you're essentially telling him, we're going to try and put you in jail.

You hire criminal defense attorneys to get involved. And in his mind, I can picture there being an element of, you know, he had the Russia investigation, he had the two impeachments. And he's just looking at this, as you know, another witch hunt. And so that may inform why he would be more combative about it. But it also informs, you know, from my perspective, as an attorney, the manner in which DOJ approaches, the case is also how the attorneys handle it.

So, in retrospect, I think it could have been handled differently from both sides. I think it had been a Office of the Director of National Intelligence, administrative investigator who made the approach and there was no threat of jail from the very first communication that might have changed things.

BASH: It wasn't the first communication? Or you mean the first communication from DOJ?

PARLATORE: The first communication from DOJ, the first communication that involved the allegation of classified documents included within it the risk of jail.

BASH: I want to ask about Walt Nauta, because you were still around when his testimony and all this became an issue. But the first question I want to ask is, why on earth was he brought down to Miami without a bit, without a local council. Like, he was brought down, and he didn't -- he wasn't even given that little bit of help. So that he didn't have to return with local council. How does that happen?

PARLATORE: You know, I can't speak to that. Obviously, that's something that happened after I left.

BASH: Are you surprised?

PARLATORE: I was because, you know, certainly he has a highly competent counsel in D.C., which is where this case has been, you know, throughout. So, for all of a sudden change to Miami, is certainly they should have been able to add a Miami based attorney. It sounds like perhaps they were more focused on trying to find Miami based attorneys for the president, and perhaps getting Walt, somebody who was not the priority.

BASH: Any chance he flips?

PARLATORE: I don't know. You know if that comes down to, it's a very individualized decision. And I don't know Walt, you know, I can't speak to his individual appetite for risk, which is how I describe this. Every criminal defendant has to make their own decision as to what they're willing to do, how much they're willing to risk, because at the end of the day, the consequences of that decision is not something that affects the lawyer. You know, we go home at the end of the day regardless, it's the client that has to live with the rest of their life.

BASH: Are you were all concerned that you might be called as a witness in this case?

PARLATORE: Me now. I used to serve solely as a lawyer. I oversaw the searches, the subsequent searches of the various properties. And, you know, which is something that I explained to a grand jury in reading the indictment. It's clearly not a part of this case, because everything we did was appropriate, legal and ethical. So, I'm not concerned about that at all.

BASH: Are you still in contact with your former client, the former president?

PARLATORE: I have spoken to him once or twice since leaving the team. You know, we left on good terms.

BASH: You've been spoken to him since he was in court yesterday?

PARLATORE: No, I have not.

BASH: Thank you so much for coming in. Appreciate it.

PARLATORE: Thank you. BASH: And coming up, flailing for a message. Trump's top 2024 rivals struggle with how to respond to his indictment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Today a new fiery condemnation, Mike Pence slammed Donald Trump over the former president's alleged handling of classified documents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had a chance to review the indictment over the weekend. And this indictment contains its serious charges. And I cannot defend what is alleged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And for Pence whose son is a marine, it's personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: Highly sensitive classified material could have fallen into the wrong hands even inadvertently that that jeopardizes our national security. It puts at risk the men and women of our armed forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Our great reporters are back here around the table. What do you make of the Mike Pence sort of ramping up, slowly but very much surely?

ZELENY: Look, I think it's significant, particularly saying that his son is a marine and he's following in the footsteps of what Nikki Haley said, also drying the national security point to it. Look, for all the drama that surrounds this and the Trump going to resign, going to Bedminster, we should remember this is about the case at hand.

[12:30:00]