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Trump's Support Softens After Indictment; Trump Talks Classified Docs Case In New Interview; Judge Sets Mid-August Initial Trial Date For Trump; Iowa Voters Weigh In On Trump Indictment; Ex- Trump Atty. John Eastman May Be Disbarred. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired June 20, 2023 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00]
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: That he has a big vulnerability, several of them actually, among Americans, even those in his own party. I want to get straight to CNN Political Director David Chalian at the magic wall. David, walk us through these fascinating new numbers.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, Dana, we are seeing a bit of softening in Donald Trump's support among Republican and Republican leaning Independents in this 2024 nomination race, even though he is still clearly the big front runner for the nomination. Take a look at that horse race, if you will.
Right now, you see that Donald Trump's at 47 percent support among Republican and Republican leaders. DeSantis at 26 percent. Everyone else single digits. But note here the change. So, back in May, Donald Trump was at 53 percent support. He's down six points. That's one note of caution.
How about favorability about Donald Trump? Take a look here. Now he's down at 67 percent favorable among Republicans and Republican leaders. That's 10 points below the 77 percent he was at just in May. And those that say they will never consider Donald Trump for the Republican Party nomination are on the rise.
You see now it's at 23 percent of Republicans, and Republican leaders won't even consider as an option. That was down at 16 percent in May. So those are all warning signs in the primary context for Donald Trump. Still, clearly a 21-point lead is a place you'd rather be than not.
In terms of the general electorate and the overall broader American audience, there's big, broad sense of approval of the federal indictment. 61 percent of Americans overall in this poll approve of the federal indictment. In the documents case, you see overwhelmingly among Democrats. 67 percent of Independents approve of the indictment, about a quarter of Republicans.
Now, Americans do broadly see politics playing a role in this. 71 percent say so in this federal indictment. Even a slim majority of Democrats say politics is playing a role at this. Clearly, Independents and Republicans believe that as well. A majority of Americans, Dana, 59 percent, nearly six in 10, say Donald Trump should end his campaign now, due to these federal charges in the documents case. 90 percent of Democrats, 62 percent of Independents think he should end the campaign now, only a quarter of Republicans. That all gets at the question inside the Republican Party whether or not Donald Trump is their best foot forward to beat Joe Biden in November of 2024.
And what you see here is a split decision among Republicans. 51 percent of Republican and Republican leaders say their chances are best for victory, with Donald Trump at the top of the ticket. 49 percent say their chances would be better with someone else, Dana.
BASH: Fascinating numbers. David, I know you're going to come over to the table. And while you do, I just want to put back up on the screen. There's a lot of numbers there, and I think it would be good for our viewers and for all of us to kind of keep digesting.
Let's just go to the first one, the horse race. There you go. You do see, I mean, 47 percent is a big percentage of support, particularly when you have all of those other contenders in the race. But you do see slippage there for Donald Trump.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: He definitely still has a grip on the party. But now I think about how DeSantis, in particular, has really tried in this campaign to differentiate between Trumpism, between the values or the policies of the previous administration, saying that he supports those, even galvanizing off those. But then differentiating that between the actual former president, saying, I can actually do Trumpism better than Trump in a way.
And you wonder, when you look at these numbers, if they provide a glimpse that that narrative and that focus that he's had is starting to soften support among Trump supporters, who may say, look, yes, we did support the policies of the previous administration, and we support how Trump galvanized us. But now we have various multiple options of people that can do that.
It's no longer solely Trump as an option for pushing forward that narrative, those culture wars, those policies that galvanized us in the first place.
BASH: And as you discussed this, Leanne, I want to bring back one of the other numbers that David talked about, which is his overall favorability rating. And this is just with Republican or Republican leaning voters, 10 points down, 10 points 77 to 67, and his unfavorable, the other side of that coin up to 27 percent.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, EARLY 202 CO-AUTHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: This actually goes against conventional wisdom, talking to a lot of Republicans immediately after this indictment, when they said that this indictment was going to help Donald Trump in the short term. And so this perhaps proves that maybe it doesn't.
And I remember, Dana, last week when we were sitting around this table talking about how there had been a shift in what Nikki Haley and Tim Scott and others had said about Donald Trump and his indictment. They got much more critical of it. And we talked about how maybe there was something in the polling that we haven't seen yet. I wanted to know what their poll numbers are.
[12:35:02]
Maybe they saw this, and maybe they thought that it might be a good idea to actually attack Donald Trump instead of trying to ignore him.
BASH: Yes.
CALDWELL: But it's early. We'll see.
CHALIAN: And it may be temporary, right?
CALDWELL: It may be.
CHALIAN: This is just a --
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.
CHALIAN: -- snapshot. We don't know yet. I think we have to look for in the future as more polls come out, as the race continues. Is this the beginning of a trend? Or is this just like a moment in time that captured this softening of support for him? But it is noteworthy because for eight years, Dana, nearly eight years, we've been asking this question, it's like, is anything ever going to change Donald Trump's numbers again?
I don't think this is a screaming headline in some way of Donald Trump has lost his grip.
BASH: Right.
CHALIAN: He clearly hasn't. But this is new. We haven't seen this kind of even little bit of diminishment.
BASH: So I want to not lose sight of an interview that Donald Trump did last night with Bret Baier on Fox News. We're going to talk more about it in the next segment. But this particular part is relevant to the conversation, suburban women. He asked Donald Trump about suburban women. Listen to his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: They usually make up all the difference in the election. And so to the female independent voter in the suburbs who struggled with family financing because of inflation, she's now against Biden, disapproves of Biden, but wasn't with you in 2020, and so far is a hard no for you in 2024? But what do you say to that?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're not making at the right poll.
BAIER: What do you say to that female independent suburban voter who feels that way to win her back?
TRUMP: First of all, I won in 2020 by a lot, OK? Let's get that straight. I won in 2020.
BAIER: You know that this --
TRUMP: And if you look at all of the tapes, if you look at --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And then just look at this number again that David brought us before, approve of decision to indict Trump. Look at the purple, 67 percent. Now, that's independence. It's not just women, but it's independents that matter.
CHALIAN: Also, do you just see what just happened --
BASH: In the general election, that's right.
CHALIAN: Right. Or into the Americans overall? But what did Donald Trump do with that answer? He was asked a question -- he's a candidate for president -- he was asked a question about how he's going to appeal to independent women and improve his standing. And he answered it with a repeated lie about the 2020 election.
That is the problem that the Republican Party is trying to wrestle with throughout this campaign cycle, because he can't give that up. And that is what put him out of office, because it sent voters precisely the kind that Bret Baier was asking how you're going to bring in. It keeps them at bay.
BASH: Yes. And by the way, in another part of the interview, he also admitted that he's not president anymore. So we can talk about that later.
Stand by, everybody, because up next, he did break the first rule of being indicted with stunning comments about his case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: So you're not worried (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: Based on the law? Zero. A zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:42:26]
BASH: Today, a federal judge penciled in mid-August for the start of Donald Trump's trial. The date is likely to change, but if it holds, it puts the classified documents case on the fast track. But between now and whenever the trial begins, the former president may need to brush up on his law and order. Because remember, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law, including this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And again --
BAIER: They said, can you give the documents back?
TRUMP: And we would talk.
BAIER: And then they said they went to DOJ to subpoena you to get them back.
TRUMP: Which they've never done before.
BAIER: Right.
TRUMP: And --
BAIER: Then why not just hand them over then?
TRUMP: Because I had boxes. I want to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out. I don't want to hand that over to NARA yet. And I was very busy, as you've sort of seen.
BAIER: Yes. But according to the indictment, you then tell this aide to move to other locations after telling your lawyers to say you'd fully complied with the subpoena when you hadn't.
TRUMP: But before I send boxes over, I have to take all of my things out. These boxes were interspersed with all sorts of things, golf shirts, clothing, pants, shoes. There were many things. I would say much --
BAIER: Around (ph) more of them?
TRUMP: -- more -- not that I know of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Joining our conversation again is Former Federal Prosecutor Elliot Williams and CNN Legal Analyst Carrie Cordero. I have a messy purse, but I can't imagine golf clothes and nuclear secrets being in one box. But that's maybe a different conversation.
Before I talk to you, very good lawyers, let's listen to a former U.S. attorney and now Donald Trump's opponent, Chris Christie, about what it would be like to represent Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It appears to me last night, as a former prosecutor, that he admitted obstruction of justice on the air last night to Bret Baier. I could tell you this his lawyers this. His lawyers this morning are jumping out of whatever window they're near.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Chris Christie is a former prosecutor. He was a U.S. attorney. So when he's looking at it, I think his comments have value there. The fact of the matter is that the former president would not have been charged had he not engaged in the obstructive conduct, in my view. And his public statements can be something that the prosecutors will look at.
However, because -- in my judgment -- because the former president has such a history of false statements, lies, misstatements, contradictory statements in his public messaging, I don't think the prosecutors are really going to rely in any meaningful way on what he says in any particular news interview.
[12:45:01]
A news interview is not under oath. It's not like being in a deposition when you're under oath. It's not like testifying in trial when you're under oath. He can say anything. And so, I think we need to hold out the possibility, because so far we only know of the audio that describes that particular incident he's talking about. It's possible at the time that he wasn't being truthful, and it's possible that in the interview, he wasn't being truthful.
BASH: Let's talk about that because he did discuss the audiotape that we saw in the indictment with Bret Baier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: You were recorded saying that you had a document detailing a plan of attack on another country that was prepared by the U.S. military for you when you were president. The Iran attack plan. You remember that?
TRUMP: Ready?
BAIER: You were recorded.
TRUMP: There wasn't a document.
BAIER: OK.
TRUMP: I had lots of paper. I had copies of newspaper articles. I had copies of magazines. Bret, there was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about Iran and other things. And it may have been held up or may not, but that was not a document. I didn't have a document, per se.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Here's what the federal indictment said. "Trump: Except it's like highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look at this. See, as president, I could have declassified it". "Yes", said the person he was talking to. "Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret."
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: OK. What he's certainly done is admitted to possessing documents. That -- he said that he's on the record about that. What prosecutors will then have to prove is, were the things he possessed relevant to the national defense or could they hurt American defense interests? And he's sort of tiptoeing up to that there. And certainly in the indictment he says that.
Now, is that a confession? And this is picking up on Carrie's point. I think it's a confession, but certainly pretty good evidence.
BASH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: -- that the person knows that he's being investigated, that he knows he is handling defense information, and that he knows that it's in his possession. It is not good. This is why lawyers, defense attorneys tell their clients, shut your mouth, don't talk ever.
BASH: Except -- yes, I get it. But most defense attorneys aren't representing a candidate for president of the United States.
CORDERO: Right.
BASH: Who is desperate to defend himself.
CORDERO: So he is going to continue to speak publicly. I mean, I think there's just no way around that. And I think that's part of the reason why he has such a difficult time obtaining defense attorneys who are best suited to defend him in this case, which, in my view, I'm surprised that he hasn't found somebody who was a former prosecutor in the Southern District of Florida. That would be the best case scenario for him.
But when they see some of their future client doing this type of thing publicly, it's going to really give a lot of lawyers pause.
BASH: Me thinks they're looking hard for that kind of lawyer but hasn't found one yet.
Thanks, guys.
Up next, we go to Iowa to hear what voters are saying about the Trump indictment and the first in the nation caucus state. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:52:32]
BASH: Now, a window into what Iowa voters are thinking. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Sioux City, Iowa. And Jeff, you have been asking Iowa Republicans how they feel about the Trump indictment. What are they telling you?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, there is a mix of Trump fatigue and Trump loyalty. Those are found in pretty equal measure when you talk to the Republicans here, who will open the Republican nominating contest early next year. Now, Trump's indictment and his legal cases have become a central part of this campaign and they are squarely on the minds of the voters we've been speaking to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAOMI CORRIE, COUNCIL BLUFFS, IOWA VOTER: I think it is truthful and it does have merits. A lot of my friends said, well, what about Hunter Biden, or what about Secretary Clinton and her servers, et cetera. And I said, well, yes and no. But this is still real and it is still happening and you can't just go back and do tit for tat.
EILEEN SAILER, DENISON, IOWA VOTER: Did any of the presidents have classified documents when they left the White house? He talked about the justice, equal justice for all, and I don't see that right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: There is no doubt. The cracks clearly are there. The questions clearly are arising, as our new national poll shows. Similar sentiments are reflected here in many conversations we've been having. Some candidates are trying to exploit those sentiments, trying to raise similar doubts.
The former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson has been campaigning here in recent days. He's been squarely addressing this, and voters are responding to it. Some do not agree with this message. But, Dana, I can tell you, I've been fairly surprised by those who privately and even softly say they do believe this is a worry.
And here's why. It's the central question of electability. Republicans want to win back the White House. They want to get President Biden out of office. They want to talk about the Biden policies, not the Trump legal cases. So there definitely has been a shift here, in my view.
The question, though, in a big field, in a large field of candidates, is that enough to make a difference here, or does Trump still have a good share of the base? But Dana, it's my sense, this is an evolving story that we'll be watching, of course, in the next six or seven months before the voting begins here.
BASH: Yes, no question about that.
ZELENY: Yes.
BASH: That's really interesting, Jeff, that you're getting a sense that voters are taking the long view, which tends to not happen when it comes to Donald Trump and his -- what has been his firm grip on the Republican electorate.
Thanks so much, Jeff. Appreciate it, as always.
ZELENY: Sure.
BASH: And up ahead, an ex-Trump attorney in the hot seat and possibly being disbarred.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:59:49]
BASH: Former Trump Attorney John Eastman is facing a disciplinary hearing today in Los Angeles. The counsel for the State Bar in California is asking a court to revoke Eastman's law license. He faces 11 disciplinary charges for allegations that he tried to convince then Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the 2020 election.
Thanks so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts right now.
