Return to Transcripts main page
Inside Politics
DeSantis Defends Controversial Video; Iowa Voter Confronts Pence About Jan. 6; Pence Super PAC Hits Trump On Relationship With Dictators; Francis Suarez Super PAC Launches AI Chatbot; Treasury Secretary Yellen In Beijing For High-Stakes Meetings; Gaetz Pushes To End Cannabis Testing For Military. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired July 06, 2023 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[12:30:00]
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: 2024 is make or break. I think I'm the guy that can get all of that done. And I think I have a responsibility to offer myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIPS, CNN HOST: So there is a sense of urgency in his mind there, but he's facing very difficult odds up against a candidate who isn't -- maybe not Teflon, but just has a lot of resiliency in the Republican primary.
MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. This ad is clearly not a general election strategy, but you have to win the primary before you can run in the general election. I think it's actually legit as a primary strategy to point out Donald Trump's clear shift away from gay rights towards a more -- what's now more of a GOP-based position.
I think if the ad had stopped there, you can make that argument, but the ad keeps going with either homophobic or homoerotic images, depending on how you want to analyze it. Lots of muscles, guys and masks, lots of oil. But so the purpose of the ad is to portray Ron DeSantis as a champion against gay rights and sort of LGBTQ plus issues.
And that's a little different than portraying the shift of Donald Trump. It is actually to portray DeSantis as a fighter against these issues as part of the culture wars block. And again, that is a primary election strategy. It would be very problematic in a general election, you'd have to completely walk away from it, because you -- what you need to be a Republican nominee who's elected in a general election is suburban women, kind of centrist voters, old line Republicans who are kind of more like interested in economics and not social issues.
PHILLIPS: And even if you're sympathetic to the message that they're sending in the video, it's the execution also that is actually pretty poor, and it's almost like trying to out meme Trump and not doing it particularly effectively apparently. But coming up next for us, tough questions on the campaign trail for Mike Pence who still finds himself having to explain to voters what he did or did not do on January 6th.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:36:31]
PHILLIPS: Mike Pence is barnstorming Iowa this week, trying to convince voters at pizza ranches and ice cream shops that they should choose him in the first in the nation caucuses. He's pitching a new era of leadership, but still faces questions about the past.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you ever second guess yourself? That was a constitutional right that you had to send those votes back to the states.
MIKE PENCE (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They did exactly what the Constitution of the United States required of me that day. And I kept my oath. I'm sorry, ma'am, but that's actually what the Constitution says. No vice president in American history ever asserted the authority that you have been convinced that I had.
But I want to tell you, with all due respect, I said before, I said when I announced, President Trump was wrong about my authority that day, and he's still wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Fascinating exchange. CNN's Kyung Lah is in Sioux City, Iowa. So, Kyung, you were there for this. How did it play out?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was inside the extra room, the rental room of a pizza ranch. And Abby, when we stepped into that room, you could tell it felt a little different than all of the multiple events we'd seen the former vice president in throughout his Iowa swing here.
It was a bit more confrontational. There was a man wearing a Trump 2024 hat. There were vocal Trump supporters, including that woman who asked that question. And that woman, in her question, was clearly blaming Trump, saying that she believed that he cost Trump the 2024 -- the 2020 election, despite the fact that it isn't true.
And what you heard that snippet that you played, there's much more to that answer. It was four and a half minutes long. He used words like you heard, with all due respect. He very patiently and meticulously walked through and defended why he felt he was doing his constitutional duty. And when he finished with his answer, that small room applauded.
And so we caught up with the woman who asked that question and asked her what her reaction was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAH: What do you think after hearing Mr. Pence's answer?
LUANN BERTRAND, IOWA VOTER: I believe he's a good man. I love the fact that he is strengthened by his faith, but I really do feel like he altered history.
LAH: Would you consider supporting Mr. Pence after listening to him today?
BERTRAND: I would consider it, but he has that one hiccup.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAH: And we talked to several people after that exchange to see where they were in the Pence column. We found one who was unmovable. We found one who was moving, and then another who was moved, who would then support Mr. Pence.
And that, the campaign says, is a good day. It is a victory. This is part of their strategy, Abby, to get into these small rooms of these pizza ranches and to convince these Iowans to go and caucus for them.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
LAH: That's not the last time this campaign plans to speak to that woman, Abby. They plan to go back again and again. Abby?
PHILLIPS: Yes. And this is maybe the charm of Iowa, one, two, three people. And that adds up to quite a lot in the caucus system. So, Kyung Lah, thank you very much for all of that.
My panel is back with us. David, you know what this reminds me of? That John McCain moment where that woman came to the microphone and said, you know, Barack Obama is what have you. And he said, no, ma'am, this is what it is.
[12:40:01]
Mike Pence, I think, was attempting that. It took a long -- much longer because it's more complicated, but this is a critical thing for him to be able to do.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I just think this is the Mike Pence challenge of his candidacy. This is the tension, right, that he's going to get out there, he's a natural fit for the Iowa caucuses, right? Evangelical Christian on paper, he's the kind of candidate and yet, there is a dedicated large swath, I'm not saying it's a majority, but a swath of the Republican caucus going electorate that just believes this falsehood that Donald Trump has spent years peddling.
So when she says it's -- he has that one hiccup that, you know, he altered history, well, no, he would have altered history if he actually sent the electoral votes back to the state. The voters altered history in November of 2020 by electing Joe Biden president and sending Donald Trump packing.
And to hear her conviction --
PHILLIPS: Yes.
CHALIAN: -- in that, I think, is very much Mike Pence's challenge throughout this campaign.
PHILLIPS: It's also very disturbing. There are a lot of people in this Republican Party who are exactly where this woman is.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think it's this moment here in this exchange is almost emblematic of our current times politically. In the past, you may have a candidate go and hear from different voters in Iowa about kitchen table issues, about the economy, what have you.
But instead, now you have a prominent candidate who is really seeing firsthand the ripple effects, the ramifications of more than a year, more than two years of false claims about the election. We were warned about this over and over again, that it wouldn't just be statements that go out into the ether, that people would actually believe these statements and have a lack of faith in the Democratic system and continue to believe it.
And you're seeing sort of those ripple effects and the ramifications now carry over into another presidential election here. That moment, that exchange, I think, is a firsthand example, real example of just of the impact of those false statements in 2020.
TALEV: The words around the exchange -- and the Pence piece of this that we've been talking about all this time revolves around the question of whether Pence had the power to do something. But the real question at the root of it is, who won the 2020 election?
And for these voters, however, small or large a bloc this woman represents, is an enduring false belief that Donald Trump won the election. I mean, like, vice presidents don't have the power to overturn elections. What if Kamala Harris didn't like, you know, the next election results and overturned them?
Like, nobody in that group would want that. It is that there are apparently millions of Americans who still believe that Trump was a winner.
PHILLIPS: Yes.
TALEV: For Pence, Pence's messaging, he keeps trying to wavering between how to draw the lines around this language without completely throwing Trump under the bus and saying, you know, he's dishonest, you shouldn't trust him. He's not fit to be president again.
If you're sticking out the position that he didn't win and is lying about that, then I don't see how you have it both ways. And that's why I found his rhetoric kind of hard of --
PHILLIPS: Yes.
TALEV: -- need to follow.
PHILLIPS: He's trying to make a logical argument, but he's combating a conspiracy theory.
TALEV: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So there's that. But he's also -- and his Super PAC, his supporters are trying to pivot to territory that I think is more solid ground for Pence. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America doesn't stand with thugs and dictators. We confront them, or at least we used to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.
PENCE: There can be no room in the leadership of the Republican Party for apologists, for Putin. There can only be room for champions of freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: On the foreign policy argument, you saw a lot of pictures of Trump there. He also told the Associated Press on Ukraine, with all due respect, I think the former president and the governor of Florida, that's Ron DeSantis, just don't understand Americans interest in supporting the Ukrainian military in repelling the Russian military in Ukraine. Make no mistake, China is watching.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Look, he's absolutely trying to kind of seize on the comments by Trump and DeSantis that have not pledged full support at least or any support of Ukraine. But issue is also some of those images of Trump with, say, Kim Jong-un or with Putin, Pence was also vice president at that time.
PHILLIPS: That's right.
KANNO-YOUNGS: And also tasked at times with a major responsibility over foreign policy, too. So --
PHILLIPS: And was also often asked about it --
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes.
PHILLIPS: -- and declined to condemn many of those moments.
KANNO-YOUNGS: So then the question now becomes, why didn't you say anything then if you now are running an ad about it now?
PHILLIPS: You almost sound like you're about to write some debate questions for the ones that are coming up.
But up next for us, the AI version of another presidential candidate, Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, hits the digital campaign trail, but it doesn't have all the answers. Here's what it does have to say coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:49:30]
PHILLIPS: We know that not everyone gets a chance to speak directly to presidential candidates. But now voters can talk to Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, or at least you can talk to the chatbot version of him. A Super PAC backing the Republican Miami mayor released an artificial intelligence bot featuring his face and his voice.
And so, naturally, we asked him, or it or whatever, a few questions, including why do you want to be president? And what are your policy platforms? And here are his responses to both.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[12:50:00]
FRANCIS SUAREZ, MIAMI MAYOR (through AI Chatbot): Conservative Miami Mayor Francis Suarez's leadership has transformed Miami into a city that's thriving economically. Mayor Suarez's Miami model is a testament to his effective leadership and conservative principles. The Miami model is working, and it's time for Mayor Francis Suarez to bring it to the national stage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: All right, so we had a few more questions for him. We also asked, why are you the best candidate, and what makes you qualify to be president? Also, what will you do to make Americans lives better? His responses?
SUAREZ (through AI Chatbot): The rule of law and order has more than dissolved under Joe Biden's administration. The Biden DOJ's lawless attack on President Donald Trump is another example of this. As president, Conservative Miami Mayor Francis Suarez will use the pardon power of the president to pardon Donald Trump and restore law in order to heal the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: My panel is back. We did a lot of beta testing of this bot, and I think what we are not really showing is that those answers are probably 60 percent of the options available to you on this chatbot.
KANNO-YOUNGS: More than that for Zolan, yes. No, I talked, I tried.
PHILLIPS: So is this the best of AI?
KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, I was just before in the green room, I mean, I was -- I asked about what he thought about Donald Trump. He was forward in saying that criticizing Biden's DOJ, as well as saying that he would offer Trump a pardon. I then followed up and asked about his stance on Ukraine and financial support for Ukraine, and he once again reverted to telling me about a pardon process for Donald Trump once again. I asked about DACA and his stance on immigration. Immediately went to the border, but didn't mention DACA once.
So not exactly getting clarity from answers here. However, I guess that happens at times when you ask actual politicians --
PHILLIPS: This is what happens with AI.
TALEV: This is the worst thing that happens in the 2024 election because of AI. We are all, as a country, going to get off very easy. There are a lot of concerns about misinformation being just flooding the zone, getting mixed up about, did the candidate really say that, or is that, you know, fake?
And so I think this is silly and definitely has shortcomings and shows why AI can't replace people yet, but it's pretty harmless. But it shows real, real limits to what this technology do.
PHILLIPS: OK. Let me play one more before you hop in.
CHALIAN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: This is -- the question here is, why should you be president over Ron DeSantis?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESANTIS (through AI chatbot): Conservative Miami Mayor Francis Suarez is concerned with saving America's economy, supporting our police officers, keeping American communities safe, and standing up to China. But I want to talk about the single greatest threat to American families today. Mickey Mouse, yes, Mickey Mouse, run for your lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: OK, I had a little chuckle on that one. At least they didn't try to make, to Margaret's point, a kind of fake out Ron DeSantis here.
CHALIAN: Just a cartoon version Ron DeSantis.
PHILLIPS: Just a cartoon version of him.
CHALIAN: Yes. It's also interesting, strategically, that the Suarez Super PAC, I guess, sees DeSantis as the candidate they want to take on more than Trump who they're willing to offer a pardon to or what have you --
PHILLIPS: In stronger terms.
(CROSSTALK)
CHALIAN: Even when you don't act. TALEV: By the way, pardon Donald Trump.
CHALIAN: But one thing about the branding that the bot seems to have right is that every single answer is Conservative Mayor Francis Suarez. Like, that's his full name. So, like, constantly trying to signal to Republican primary voters that he is an actual conservative, despite that he comes from -- and has been overseeing the city of Miami.
PHILLIPS: The AI bot also ran a little bit of interference. Remember, Francis Suarez was asked recently about the Uyghurs, you know, a Muslim minority in China. He didn't even know what it was, but here's the bot when asked, what should America do to protect the Uyghurs?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUAREZ (through AI chatbot): Conservative Mayor Francis Suarez recognizes China as one of America's greatest threats. Unlike Joe Biden, Mayor Suarez will standup to China and put America first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: So at least he knows that answer now.
TALEV: Redemption, publicity --
PHILLIPS: But still no mention of the Uyghurs. That's a good point. Yes.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Just -- and, I mean, looking at this right now, I do have to kind of ask, are voters actually going to sign on and ask an AI bot questions here? I mean, how much will if you're trying to compete against a DeSantis here like fanfare (ph), I mean, who -- like, will this actually attract a wide swath of voters?
I know we're in the digital age but --
PHILLIPS: I mean, in this stage in the campaign, isn't the name of the game just getting people talking about you, putting something out there, just like Ron DeSantis learned this past week that's viral and maybe bad, but people are talking about it.
Coming up next for us, drugs in the military. One Republican congressman says, why not? At least to one drug. We'll tell you which one, that is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:59:22]
PHILLIPS: Topping our political radar, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is now in Beijing for a set of high stakes meetings with senior Chinese officials. Her visit is aimed at cooling the tensions between the United States and China, but she will be walking a diplomatic tightrope. The administration is already tempering expectations about the visit, saying that they don't anticipate specific policy breakthroughs. And Congressman Matt Gaetz is pushing to end cannabis testing for members of the military.
The Florida Republican is proposing an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, which would end testing both when enlisting and accepting a commission. According to the New York Times, nearly 33 percent more recruits tested positive in 2022 than in 2020.
And thank you for joining us in "Inside Politics." "CNN News Central" starts right now.
