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Today: Grand Jury Selection In GA 2020 Election Probe; Trump's Lawyers Ask To Delay Classified Docs Trail; Trump's Lawyers: Docs Trail Would Impact 2024 Bid; U.S. Tries To Reassure Ukraine Ahead Of NATO Summit; Zelenskyy Sends Not-So-Diplomatic Message To The West; WH: We're Trying To Resupply Ukraine's Ammunition; NATO Holds Critical Summit As War Rages In Ukraine. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 11, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, a jury of the former president's peers, it is jury selection day in Georgia. Soon whoever is picked will make a historic decision whether to charge Donald Trump with trying to sabotage the 2020 election results in Georgia.

And a deal for one ally, a disk from another. Turkey relents and says yes to letting Sweden into the NATO alliance, but Ukraine upstages the big Biden win with the demand for respect and entry into NATO now and not later. Plus, bad blood. Donald Trump says, he has problems with Iowa's governor and another deep cut. We just learned that the front runner says, he'll skip a headline event for Iowa GOP voters.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

And we start with grand jury selection in Georgia. That panel is expected to consider charges against Donald Trump and his Republican allies for trying to overturn the state's 2020 election. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis launched the investigation in 2021. Shortly after the former president suggested Georgia's top election officials could help him "fined 11,780 votes just enough to beat President elect Joe Biden."

CNN's Nick Valencia is live outside the courthouse. Nick, what are we seeing and hearing at this point as they're doing the selection inside behind you?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, there is so much at stake here for the former president and some of the biggest names in his orbit. One of the two grand jury selected today will ultimately be tasked with hearing evidence against the former president and some of his closest allies in their efforts to overturn the 2020 election results here in Georgia. And that grand jury will ultimately decide whether or not to bring an indictment against the former president and some of his Republican allies.

So, let's take you inside right now and what's happening in there. We have a reporter inside, Marshall Cohen, who tells us that this jury pool is 96 potential jurors all drawn here from Fulton County, which as many of you know, is heavily Democratic. 73 percent of the voters here voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 election.

I mentioned two grand juries will be selected today. They will consist of 26 jurors each. They will be needed 16 for quorum, 12 of them will have to be in agreement in order for an indictment to be leveled. And right now, judge McBurney, who was presiding over the special purpose grand jury will also preside over this selection of the grand jurors. He is going over hardships with these jurors, who're seeing if they have any scheduling conflicts.

We understand that he's meeting privately with some of those who've expressed that they have some hardships and some of those valid excuses that he says, we'll be allowing. You know, some of these jurors to not serve include things like them being 70 or above 70 years old or above if they're not a U.S. citizen, if they're a full- time resident.

The bottom line here though, is by the end of the day, we will have the grand jury that is ultimately going to hear evidence against the former president in his effort to overturn the 2020 elections' results. And Dana, the anticipation is that we will hear one way or another about the potential of an indictment or indictments as early as August. Dana?

BASH: Nick, thank you so much for that reporting. And now that the federal charges already filed against Donald Trump and an 11th hour plea from the former president's legal team, literally an 11th hour plead filed just 30 minutes before midnight deadline.

Late last night, the former president's attorneys asked a federal judge to indefinitely delay his classified documents trial. Special Counsel Jack Smith had requested the trial start on December 11. Now Judge Aileen Cannon, a Trump appointee must decide whether to grant Trump's request his attorneys right.

The court now presides over a prosecution advanced by the administration of a sitting president against his chief political rival. Therefore, a measured consideration and timeline that allows for a careful and complete review of the procedures that led to this indictment best serves the interests of the defendants and the public.

Let's get some insights and reporting from CNN's Evan Perez, CNN's David Chalian, and a former federal prosecutor Shan Wu. There's a lot to unpack in that court filing that we saw last night. And Evan, as I come to you, I just want to read a little bit more. And, well actually, let me just ask you before I get to the politics because I want to talk to you about that, David. What does in total this filing tell you?

[12:05:00]

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it tells us what we've all suspected, which is that the Donald Trump playbook, right, which is the delay, delay, delay is very much alive. And well, that's exactly what he and his team want to do. We've kind of gotten hints of it. And now they've just said it plainly. They want an indefinite delay. They're looking for perhaps a trial that goes beyond election day in 2024.

But one of the extraordinary things that, you know, that happens in Donald Trump words and in his team's filing, is this line. It says, the extraordinary case presents a serious challenge to both the fat and the perception of our American democracy. I think those words actually could also extend to the conduct that the former president exhibited on January 6, before January 6, after he lost the election in 2020. And also, just his conduct since, right.

And I think it's one of those words, that one of those things that if you look at the words that they write in there, you could extrapolate it to a lot of different things that the former president has been doing. And so, we don't know whether this judge is going to agree with this, whether she's going to look to try to speed this up. The Justice Department says, they can go to trial in December. So, we'll see.

BASH: So, OK, let me get to that, quote, I want you to react to David. Here, this is again, part of the Trump lawyers filing last night. Here, there is simply no question any trial of this action during the pendency of a presidential election will impact both the outcome of that election and importantly, the ability of the defendants to obtain a fair trial.

I know you think that a point that you make over and over again, David, is that sort of it's almost a chicken or an egg thing, like which came first. The fact that he's running for president, or the fact that he was potentially going to be indicted and how they're connected?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Precisely. So, you remember the reporting in the conversation back in November around the time he was getting ready to launch his third bid for the presidency here. What was he going to do it before the midterm elections? Was he going to do it after?

One of the pieces of that calculus was all of these legal clouds, this storm brewing over his head. And it was quite clear at the time that he saw a third bid for the presidency, not just as a pursuit for the presidency again, and a political operation, but also as a legal strategy against all of these clouds forming here because your shield.

Yes, exactly. These two things are you cannot separate them. They're inseparable, and his trials, his legal woes are part and parcel of his campaign for the presidency. And he sees it as a protection in many ways because he knows if he gets elected president in 2024, all of this goes away. It goes away instantly. And so, part of his desire to be president is to solve his legal problem.

BASH: It's so important that what you just said is the most important connection to make, as you said, it's inextricably linked. Shan, I want to read another part of this filing from the former president's lawyers, and this is about Walt Nauta.

Mr. Nauta's job requires him to accompany President Trump during most campaign trips around the country. This schedule makes trial preparation with both of the defendants challenging. I mean, I know there are lots of diet cokes that he needs to get the former president. But when it comes to his legal strategy, this is just part of the delay tactic.

SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes. Now there's been a small but significant part of the delay. I mean, the fact that Jack Smith now is calling it out and saying, this is delay. Trump is now over. His team saying, we just want to put the whole thing off. All of this, even up to this point, every little bit helps every day. That's a delay. Nauta couldn't find a lawyer, sort of hard to find that credible. That all adds up here.

And even in the best of circumstances, this would have been a very difficult case to get the trial before the presidential season. This makes it almost impossible. And the thing -- the great thing for Cannon -- Judge Cannon is she doesn't have to weigh in on one side of the other. She can say, well, we're not going to put off inevitably, but each step of the way. There's going to be delays and she can help with that delay too.

PEREZ: To be fair, I think, you know, it is clear that there are a lot of really complicated issues that are going to have to be litigated, right? The question of, you know, where does the presidents, you know, does his authority to declassify things? Does it end when he is no longer president or as Trump is saying that he did it with his mind, right? There's a lot of things that he has like (crosstalk)

WU: Even their point about how everything nothing should be secret. What's just -- what the public see all the classified information and that's (crosstalk)

PEREZ: So, I think the Justice Department is ready to call him on. But you know, so I think there is some -- there are a lot of things that probably are going to go all the way to the Supreme Court in this case.

[12:10:00]

BASH: And that could even if they don't actually get a formal delay that could kick the can?

PEREZ: It could kick the can.

BASH: To post election. OK. there's something else that I want you all to look at because it really struck us. And that is this quote, again from the former president's late-night filing. The government cannot point to any exigency or urgency requiring a rapid adjudication. "There is no ongoing threat to national security interests, nor any concern regarding continued criminal activity. I just want to say that again. There is no ongoing threat to national security interest, no any concern regarding continued criminal activity."

CHALIAN: Does that mean now that he's no longer sharing the documents.

BASH: Exactly. I mean, I'm not a lawyer. Is that something you would write?

WU: I mean, that standard really goes to whether Trump should be detained pretrial or not. It's not a question of only in exigent circumstances, do we hurry up and do the prosecution? So that's really kind of a red herring. It's usually defendant who may want to push for a speedy trial, of course, here's the opposite situation.

BASH: OK. A red herring, but also, it seems as though that the word continued is doing a lot of work there.

PEREZ: Right. There's a lot of, I mean, the goal, right, that the president -- the former president has in presenting this as part of his defense. As part of his legal reasoning for why we don't really need to do this trial anytime soon, guys, because, you know, now the FBI is, you know, brought this case, and so everything is hunky-dory until I become president again, perhaps.

BASH: Evan, thanks for your great reporting. Shan, thank you so much for your insights. David, stay with us. Up next. Put respect on Ukraine's name. Volodymyr Zelenskyy sends a crystal-clear message to the west.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: Rumors surprises uncertainty and a not so diplomatic message from Ukraine's president to the west. Today the White House went full Mark Twain, bragging that rumors of the death of NATO's unity were greatly exaggerated. But that was before Ukraine's president arrived in Lithuania this morning after sending a tweet openly venting frustrations at the alliance, saying "uncertainty is weakness." Zelenskyy says of the NATO's hesitancy to open its doors to the country. So, consider this an attempt from the Biden administration to calm down a very annoyed Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NSC STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS COORDINATOR: NATO is in Ukraine's future. It's pretty hard to work on some of those reforms when you're at war. So, NATO membership in the immediate future isn't likely because that would put NATO at war with Russia. Yes, their frustration, their desire for more capabilities, their desire to end this war quickly, all of that we understand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Let's go straight to Vilnius and to CNN's Arlette Saenz. Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Dana. Strength and unity is what President Biden is hoping to project from this NATO Summit. But there's already that major flashpoint with someone who is not in the alliance and that is Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy arrived here just a few hours ago, seeking security guarantees and also a clear pathway to membership in NATO.

But the communique that was released just hours after Zelenskyy's touchdown here does not offer that. It simply says that there will be conditions that need to be met before the NATO alliance would invite Ukraine into the group.

Now, Zelenskyy really put allies on blast as he headed into these meetings, tweeting, quote, it's unprecedented and absurd when timeframe is not set, neither for the invitation, nor for Ukraine's membership. While at the same time, vague wording about conditions is added even for inviting Ukraine.

You'll remember President Biden came into this summit, saying that now is not the time for Ukraine to join NATO due to the fact that that war is still ongoing against Russia. And also stressing that there are still reforms that need to be made before Ukraine can join the alliance.

Now, the communique does say that they will remove the Membership Action Plan once they do move closer to that membership application. Now President Biden and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy are set to meet face to face tomorrow. This certainly will be an issue of discussion.

I think one thing to watch more closely is whether Biden is able to offer any long-term security commitments to Ukraine, as they're trying to show that the U.S. and their allies still have the resolve and support behind Ukraine, as they face this war against Russia.

BASH: OK. Arlette, thank you so much. And of course, we should say that this, as at least so far today overshadowed a big win for the Biden administration that is getting Turkey to support Sweden going into NATO. Thank you so much for that report, Arlette.

Joining me here is CNN's Phil Mattingly, NPR's Ayesha Rascoe, and former Deputy Director of National Intelligence Beth Sanner, David Chalian is still with us. Beth, please translate this into plain English, (Inaudible).

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this is the best laid plans of mice and men to quote another famous piece of literature. So yes, Zelenskyy is both genuinely frustrated because it is almost impossible for NATO members to thread this needle between granting NATO membership like Zelenskyy wants, and setting and train what the people against this kind of timetable think would lead us to be risking Article 5 with Ukraine, which means going to war with Russia, right? And so, I think -- -

BASH: Is it a risk? Or is it a guarantee?

SANNER: It depends on when you do it. And so, this idea of setting a timeline, I think is particularly problematic because last time we set a timeline, let's say U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. And we said what date that was going to happen, we saw how the Taliban reacted.

[12:20:00] So, when you set a deadline in a timeline, you can have Russia really manipulating that. So, it is incredibly difficult, but I think in the end Zelenskyy is also just trying to pressure them to be more concrete on a roadmap that comes out of the second day. I hope that's it. Because otherwise, I think there's a big risk of ending this summit with what feels like a missed opportunity.

BASH: I want to play a little bit more of your interview with John Kirby, the spokesperson for the National Security Council.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIRBY: The prime driver right now, is the inventory issue. It's difficult for the west to keep up with the artillery shell production that they need as a bridge, so that they don't run out of shells so that they can continue to fight in this gunfight. We're going to provide them with a bridging solution of some cluster munitions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So that's sort of one of the other huge conversations going on in Vilnius. So, we'll go on. One is the overall question of NATO and admitting Ukraine to NATO. And then the second is the divide among allies about how much to supply Ukraine with would you got to with John Kirby?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, specifically on the issue of cluster munitions, United States given a green light to supplying Ukraine with cluster munitions. These are defense capability that is banned by more than 120 nations signatories, many of which -- -

BASH: Hang on one second, I think there's an issue with your mic. I want to get your fabulously smart take. But David, you also have a smart take on the politic (Ph). The politics of this because this is Inside Politics. And this is a very important stage for the candidate, President Biden.

CHALIAN: There's no doubt about that. In fact, when he his meeting with everyone today, everyone referenced the upcoming election, talking about a five-year plan and saying, well, I know you have an upcoming election and Joe Biden is still like, well, I'll be here in five years is his hope.

Dana, you just mentioned at the top that the Zelenskyy frustration overshadows this huge victory for Biden and the team to get Turkey on board and get Sweden added to this. I don't know that it should because the Zelenskyy frustration, it seems to me that the Zelenskyy frustration everyone's playing their part. frustration has to be.

Well, as you were saying, genuinely frustrated, no doubt, but also has to like -- that frustration (crosstalk) pressure and Biden is playing his part, which is of course, dealing with the reality that there is not a current path in right now. While the war is ongoing for Ukraine to enter NATO. For triggering the Article 5 solutions you did so, it seems to me they're kind of playing their parts here. I don't think that should diminish, nor do I think it does diminish Biden's legitimate victory here about getting Turkey on board with the wood sweetened (Ph) essential.

BASH: Before I so rudely interrupted you.

MATTINGLY: Am I back?

BASH: You're back. You're back. (crosstalk)

MATTINGLY: Nobody is seeing it. One I think David's point is extremely important. And to be cognizant of one because I think Zelenskyy has played this game. And I don't mean that in a pejorative sense over the course of the last 18 to 24 months, better than anybody could ever imagine.

You always have to view things through that prism. I think President Biden is also cognizant of the fact that there's 30 other members of NATO. And an additional one that's about to join here that he has to try and balance and to some degree run cover for.

When it comes to the cluster munitions, I think the most fascinating element here is, yes, there are a number of NATO members who are not -- who are signatories to a ban. And they have put out statements saying that they are signatories to a ban, and they oppose it. That's why they're signatories. You have not seen really, really sharp blowback, particularly behind the scenes.

And I think to some degree, that's a recognition of one Ukraine needs this because there's an inventory issue with non-cluster munitions that can be used for artillery. But two and this is a point I was getting at with John Kirby, which is in the fight that they are now in, in this very dug in trench driven fight that they are on the front lines. These are helpful.

They're extraordinarily dangerous to the civilian population, given the lack of exploited ordnance sometimes, but they are something that can help in this particular stage of the war, and to some degree allies, even those who are opposed to them recognize that.

AYESHA RASCOE, NPR HOST, "WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY" AND "UP FIRST": And this decision by Biden to make to send the cluster munitions, it is a difficult decision. It is a decision that I don't think it's going to have a big political ramification, but I do think for those on the left, who are concerned about Biden, who are concerned about this war, I think that it is a another argument that maybe he is going too far.

Why is he using these munitions that could harm civilians? That's a fact what the administration is saying is that look, if we give these to Ukraine, they are going to be using it on their land, and that they are going to be careful because they know it is their civilians that will be injured iIf these things are not, you know, if they don't get them cleaned up the way they should.

[12:25:00]

BASH: Such an important point. You know, I read The Wall Street Journal editorial was criticizing the president for talking about it, but you make the point about his left flank, which is not insignificant when he was thinking about his reelection and getting people to vote. OK everybody, thank you so much.

Up next, a new sign that former President Trump thinks, he doesn't need the Iowa caucuses on his pathway to the GOP nomination. Stay with us.

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BASH: Days from now Republican presidential hopefuls will gather at a high-profile summit to court Iowa's evangelical voters. One candidate who will not be there is Donald Trump.

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