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Trump Won't Attend High-Profile Conservative Iowa Summit; GOP Candidates Defend Iowa Gov Amid Trump Attacks; Donors Needed: Burgum Offers Gift Cards; Ramaswamy Offers 10 Percent Cut Of Fundraising; One-On-One With Member Of House Freedom Caucus; Ad Spending Totals Give Window Into GOP Primary Race. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 11, 2023 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:07]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Days from now, Republican presidential hopefuls will gather at a high profile summit to court Iowa's evangelical voters. One candidate who will not be there is Donald Trump. Influential Iowa Conservative Bob Vander Plaats, host of the Family Leadership Summit, says he learned last night that Trump will not attend the major Republican cattle call event this Friday.

My panel is back with me. David Chalian, I was told my reporting is that there was pressure from some of Trump's allies to try to get him to say yes. Bob Vander Plaats was on the show last week. He was leaning into the fact that he thought Trump would come. Not happening.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. Well, one of the big storylines about Trump's candidacy this time around is a concern that there's been some diminishment with evangelical Christians, right? And that this group is a largely evangelical group that's gathering in Iowa.

And so, there's no doubt that Trump and his team have heard from some quarters of that support, saying, hey, you got to make sure you maintain this relationship and keep growing it and keep it in check with what you need. But here's the reality. Bob Vander Plaats, who runs the Family Leader program there in this summit, he has said very publicly he doesn't think Donald Trump should run in 2024.

He has said that after the aftermath of January 6th, that Donald Trump is not likely going to win and would probably be the worst proposition for Republicans to put forth in 2024. So if you're Donald Trump, who is particularly attuned to personal grievances, and that is what this guy is saying, you know, I kind of understand. I wouldn't expect something different from Donald Trump that he wouldn't show up to this event.

BASH: OK, that makes sense on one level. What, honestly, I'm trying to wrap my head around is Donald Trump going after Kim Reynolds, a wildly popular political figure, the governor of Iowa, rather. Here's what Trump said on his social media platform. "I opened up the governor position for Kim Reynolds, and when she fell behind, I endorsed her, did big rallies, and she won. Now she wants to remain neutral. I didn't invite her to events". By the way, a source tells CNN that Reynolds does have a standing invitation to his events.

So I guess maybe it is consistent because you're saying he feels slighted by her because she is staying neutral.

AYESHA RASCOE, NPR HOST, "WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY" AND "UP FIRST": Yes.

BASH: But it's not unusual, at least early in the game, for Iowa's political figures to stay neutral.

RASCOE: Yes, but Trump demands loyalty. And not only -- but -- and even though she's being neutral, she has been with DeSantis, right? She's been at some of his events. She's been with his wife. So that is not going to fly with Trump.

When Trump is in, you know, a deaf battle with DeSantis, it's like you either got to put your cars down and say, you're with me or you're against me. That is the way Trump operates. He's not some subtle operator. That's not him. It's like you get on the bandwagon or you get kicked off.

And so -- and I don't think he's worried about the fact that she's popular. I don't think he --

BASH: No. Speaking of not subtle. Not subtle was like every single one of Donald Trump's opponents tripping over themselves to say how great Reynolds was. I'll just give some examples. Ron DeSantis, "She's a strong leader who knows how to ignore the chirping and get it done". Chirping.

Nikki Haley, "Conservative rock star." Doug Burgum says, the governor, "Everybody loves to campaign with Kim". Asa Hutchinson, I applaud Reynolds for welcoming all GOP candidates into Iowa".

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Who are they talking about? Some of them actually cite former president Trump in their tweets, which I think is kind of, like, the best window into their --

BASH: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- reality at this point. Like, we're going to quickly jump into this moment --

BASH: And not mentioning by name.

MATTINGLY: -- and try to take advantage of it. And maybe Kim Reynolds will see this and decide to endorse it. We're not going to mention Trump because definitely (INAUDIBLE) in public. And it's like this attempt to walk this fine line that has just led to Trump being up by 30 plus points over the course --

BASH: Yes. MATTINGLY: -- of the last several months will forever be fascinating to me. I guess less surprising than the Family Research Council decision with Bob Vander Plaats. I was less surprised about that than I am about this. However, to Ayesha's point, I think it's a good one when you're up 30 and you feel like you're rock solid in Iowa and you demand field to do whatever you want.

And I think, if nothing else, this proves that until there is some clear sign that his support is dropping, that his numbers are dropping, that anyone is making headway, then he's not going to change or feel like he has to.

BASH: OK, I want to switch gears because this is one of my favorite political stories of the day, and that is -- or maybe 48 hours -- and that is what some Republican candidates are doing, the tactics they are --

MATTINGLY: It's the best they're using (ph).

BASH: -- using to try to get on the Republican debate stage, because there are very specific criteria, including getting 40,000 donors, individual donors. So -- to get on the debate stage. Doug Burgum is about to drop hundreds of thousands of dollars of gift cards to qualify for the debate.

[12:35:02]

And Ramaswamy, Vivek Ramaswamy is going to offer commission payments to supporters who fundraise for him. Burgum is to me, one of the most interesting. A $20 gift card. If you donate $1 --

CHALIAN: Yes.

BASH: I will give you $20. So you're making a $19 profit.

CHALIAN: Yes, well, a billionaire has the ability to do that, so ah, it is a clever way. It not only -- we should note -- not only is Doug Burgum making a play here to get the smaller dollar donations to meet the threshold, he's getting a clever play to get media attention --

BASH: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- to him because he hasn't met the polling threshold yet. I mean, the first qualifying national poll was released today and he was at zero. So he doesn't get to that 1 percent threshold that they're going to need across three national polls here. So he still has to really, despite the fact that he's a billionaire and a sitting governor, he still has to fight his way onto that debate stage.

BASH: And I reached out to the Burgum campaign and a spokesman said Doug knows people are hurting because of Bidenflation and giving Biden economic relief cards as a way to help 50,000 people until Doug is elected president and fix this crazy economy for everyone.

RASCOE: Well, the thing is, you can, I guess, buy donations. I had never really heard of that. I guess you pay for them, but you can't buy votes. So he has to try to figure out, like, how he can get some support, right? Like he has to figure out how he can actually. But this -- I think that this is a sign of they're willing to do anything.

The only thing they don't seem to be willing to do is, as you pointed out, Phil, is to attack Trump. Like, that's the thing that they're not. They'll spend a whole lot of money, but they won't attack, Ron.

BASH: We're going to keep talking about this in your office after the show because I love this story. Thanks, guys.

Up next, why exactly did Marjorie Taylor Greene get the boot from the Freedom Caucus, or did she? And could other members also be on the chopping block? Freedom Caucus member Congressman Ken Buck will be here next.

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[12:41:32]

BASH: Reporting this week from CNN's Capitol Hill team says members of the far-right Freedom Caucus group, they're struggling to agree on priorities and tactics. One of the disagreements is a move to oust one of their own, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Joining me now to talk about all of these issues is a member of the House Freedom Caucus, Representative Ken Buck of Colorado. Thank you for joining me. Nice to see you in person. We have a lot to talk about, but I want to start with the vote on Marjorie Taylor Greene. First question is, is it accurate that the Freedom Caucus voted to remove her?

REP. KEN BUCK (R), COLORADO: I think that's accurate. I wasn't at the meeting. My understanding is that they voted to remove her, and the chairman has tried to contact her to let her know, and there haven't been any return phone calls. But this week, she will undoubtedly get notified.

BASH: How did you vote?

BUCK: I did not. I wasn't there.

BASH: If you were there, how would you have vote? Do you want her to be in the Freedom Caucus or out?

BUCK: It's a good question. I don't want her to be in the Freedom Caucus, but I wouldn't vote to kick her out. Once she's in the Freedom Caucus, I think she is what she is.

BASH: Your colleague Ralph Norman noted that it's almost impossible, just more broadly, for the Freedom Caucus to do what it needs to do because there's an 80 percent threshold that you've set for yourselves. Should we expect that this is the way that the caucus is going to go? And is that the way that you believe that it has the most influence?

Meaning it's gotten pretty large. And if 80 percent of you have to agree on anything, how are you going to have the kind of influence on the Republican leadership that you want to?

BUCK: So first, I think the Freedom Caucus was founded to have discussions among conservatives so that people could privately bounce thoughts off of each other and come to some conclusion. To have a positionist, a position which binds all 100 percent of the Freedom Caucus, you have to have an 80 percent -- you have to meet the 80 percent threshold.

So it isn't as if we can't do anything if 15 people in a meeting decide they want to do something. Right now with the majority where it is, 15 people have a lot of power.

BASH: Let me ask about the formation of it and where it is now. Because over the since, what, 2015, when the Freedom Caucus was formed, it has been talked about a lot because it has tried to use its influence. I mean, in part, was the reason John Boehner left, maybe even Paul Ryan because of the way that you stuck together and really tried to force the issues and the main issues that brought you together to form were about the debt and the deficit and reigning in spending.

These days, it's a question of identity. Do you believe the Freedom Caucus still stands first and foremost for those fiscal issues or do you think it is morphed into a group that is about fealty to Donald Trump?

BUCK: Well, I think there's no doubt that the Freedom Caucus grew out of the Tea Party movement and those fiscal issues were the basis for the Tea Party movement. And that's what really started the Freedom Caucus in 2015.

I think since Donald Trump has come on the scene in 2016, we see more of a populist flavor in the Republican Party and that has affected the Freedom Caucus. So there is less --

BASH: Are you comfortable with that?

BUCK: I'm not a populist. I'm a conservative, and so I'm less comfortable with the populace and how they present issues.

BASH: So are you -- does that mean just to follow that comment that you made, does that mean that you're not as comfortable with the direction of the Freedom Caucus right now of which you are a member?

[12:45:10]

BUCK: Well, I don't know if it's the direction, but it is certainly a pressure within the Freedom Caucus or a thread within the Freedom Caucus that has less unity or less unified feeling in meetings.

BASH: You mentioned, and we talked about spending, there was a letter that went out from members of the Freedom Caucus to the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy saying that they will only support spending levels set for fiscal year 2022 below the limit set during a negotiation between Speaker McCarthy and President Biden. You didn't sign that letter. Why not? BUCK: Well, because I don't believe 2022 is enough. I just heard something today that's really disturbing. We will -- our entire discretionary budget. So all the expenditures we have that are not entitled to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, that entire amount, $1.832 trillion, will be debt this year.

That's just staggering. Defense and non-defense spending will all be accounted for as debt. I think we have to reverse that, and I think we have to go beyond just 2022. Remember, the numbers for federal spending went up significantly during COVID and now we're saying we're going to just keep those post-COVID numbers.

I think we've got to reverse that and go before COVID and start looking at those numbers where -- to cap our spending.

BASH: So cuts even more. While I have you here, I want to ask about the 2024 race you have not endorsed, but you did serve with Ron DeSantis. Many thought he would be maybe a more formidable opponent to Donald Trump than he has shown to be so far. How do you think the DeSantis campaign is going so far?

BUCK: Well, I think that Donald Trump is a former president. I think he sucks all the oxygen out of the room when he does something and gets a lot of coverage. I think Ron DeSantis is slowly making progress, not necessarily in polls, but among people.

I think Mike Pence is doing a great job also in reaching out to voters in Iowa, New Hampshire. I think that Tim Scott in the same way. So I think you're going to see a number of Republicans. But I think the key is what happens after Iowa, New Hampshire. And I think you'll start to see some people drop out. And when it gets to be one or two people against Donald Trump, we'll see exactly where Donald Trump is at that point.

BASH: Congressman Ken Buck, thanks for coming in. Appreciate it.

BUCK: Thank you.

BASH: And up next, GOP candidates are already pouring tens of millions of dollars into ad buys. Who is spending the most? The answer might surprise you.

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[12:52:19]

BASH: Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you exposure in the 2024 race. And tens of millions of dollars are already being spent for political ads. CNN's David Chalian is back with me to break down the latest ad spending numbers in the first key GOP primary states for -- our colleague David Wright put some of this together and it's just fascinating.

Let's just look at the overall spending in the race. Iowa, $20.1 million. New Hampshire, $11.7. South Carolina, $5.8. Nevada, $914,000. So you see, makes sense. Maybe the first in the nation caucus state is definitely, the place where the most dollars are being spent.

But then let's look, separate them out and look at Iowa first and look at who's spending there. You have the DeSantis Super PAC, but the key is what you see in highlights. Tim Scott, his campaign, $3.5 million. His Super PAC $3.2 million. So overall, people in Iowa are seeing ads about Tim Scott more than any other ads. And same story in New Hampshire.

Doug Burgum actually has the most money spent on ads there. But if you look -- and then Donald Trump's Super PAC. But again, Tim Scott, you have almost $4 million total in New Hampshire.

CHALIAN: Yes, the total Tim Scott forces campaign and Super PAC combined in both of those early states, they're not just spending a little bit more than everyone else, they're significantly more on the air. A lot of it is biographical spots. A lot of it is just his broader vision for conservatism in America going forward. And it's clearly an introduction, and it's trying to get better known.

I'm sure most of our viewers will be doing exactly what you and I will be doing on Saturday when the FEC deadline hits and go online to check all of the campaign reports. Maybe not.

BASH: They rely on you to do that.

CHALIAN: Maybe we'll going to do that.

BASH: And by the way, so do I.

CHALIAN: But this is precisely why we focus on campaign fundraising, because the money is the fuel of these campaigns, and it is to get their message out and get it out early, to get known in this race, especially, as Ken Buck was just saying, with Donald Trump as a former president, soaking up all the oxygen.

I would just note there's an interesting detail David Wright dug out here, our colleague. If you look, the DeSantis campaign is spending further down the calendar a bit, not just Iowa and New Hampshire, but the DeSantis Super PAC, I should note that's who's spending the money.

If you look here, $3.7 million in South Carolina, the DeSantis Super PAC, along with a Club for Growth affiliated group who's in for $1.7 million on an anti-Trump ad. And in Nevada, the DeSantis Super PAC is up with $631,000. We don't see that from the others yet.

So the others are saying clearly, if you are not named Trump or not named DeSantis, you are betting on Iowa and New Hampshire to jettison your campaign forward.

[12:55:07]

BASH: It's so interesting, and just back to the Tim Scott thing, as we hear more and more from DeSantis allies saying that they want to introduce him in a better way, he's been defined by his opponents, Tim Scott, maybe because he's under the radar more. He's trying to define himself and introduce himself with a lot of money that he moved over from his Senate campaign and what he's raising now.

CHALIAN: Politics 101. You want to be the one defining yourself, not your opponents defining you.

BASH: Fascinating.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BASH: Thank you so much, David.

CHALIAN: Sure. Thank you.

BASH: You know we love this stuff.

CHALIAN: I know.

BASH: Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after a quick break.

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