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Inside Politics

Special Counsel Tees Off on Judge Cannon in Blistering Filing; Rep. Greene Calls Speaker Johnson a Damn Fool and a Liar; Rep. Boebert Undergoes Surgery to Remove Blood Clot; Democratic Rep. Raul Grijalva Diagnosed With Cancer; Orthodox Union to Deliver 180,000 Signed Letters to the White House. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 03, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:32:05]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Hell hath no fury like a special counsel scorned. Late last night, Jack Smith hit send on a page turner, as far as legal documents go. Smith put all of his frustrations with Judge Aileen Cannon down in a court filing, his annoyance that there is still no firm trial date for the classified documents case, that her jury instructions seem dramatically tilted toward the former president, that she seemingly accepts lies from Trump's defense as fact.

Smith and his team vent openly that the judge "legal premise is wrong, so much so that premise would distort the trial." Yet, she has not scheduled this trial yet. CNN's Paula Reid and Elie Honig join our conversation. Paula, I'm just going to read one more bit of this filing. He said it would be pure fiction to suggest that highly classified documents created by members of the intelligence community and military, and presented to the president of the United States during his term in office were "purely private."

Now, that is about the substance but it seems to me that his biggest frustration is with the process.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And the judge, specifically, I mean, she is an inexperienced judge. She is a Trump appointee. She's only been on the bench for a few years now. She has never handled a case like this and look, Dana, even giving her credit for the fact that this is an unprecedented criminal case, a lot of her decisions have come under considerable scrutiny, like this one, asking both sides to give instructions for a jury for an eventual trial related to an act that he hasn't been charged under highly, highly unusual -- and it is a series of unusual decisions that she has made in and around this case.

BASH: And Elie, the biggest issue -- well, one of the big issues that the special counsel has is the delay and the feeling clearly that the judge is playing into the defense strategy, which is to delay it so that it reaches November. And then we have the election and then maybe, poof, it goes away. Do you have sense that as part of that, he is setting the stage for a motion to get rid of the judge? ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So Jack Smith clearly has had it with Judge Aileen Cannon. I think that oozes out of this briefing. As you said, it is quite a sensational filing from a prosecutor. I do think there is some frustration. That's obvious with the pace of this, as well as the substance of it. Now, one move that Jack Smith could make here and he sort of alludes to it in the briefing is, A, if the judge sticks by this ruling, if the judge says I am going to instruct the jury on this Presidential Records Act offense, then Jack Smith makes clear, I will appeal that and I will appeal it now.

The other thing that Jack Smith might do is ask the appeals court to remove Judge Cannon from the case. Now, that's quite a drastic step. It is very rarely, not never, but very rarely taken by prosecutors. And there is no assurance that they win.

[12:35:00]

HONIG: But the sort of irony of all of this is, if Jack Smith appeals this and if Jack Smith asked the appeals court to remove Judge Cannon, that will delay this more than anything that has happened so far.

BASH: And Paula, you have actually spent time, unlike maybe Elie has. I certainly haven't had a chance to, in a lot of the courtrooms that --

REID: Yeah.

BASH: -- Donald Trump and his legal team have been on in various cases that he is facing right now. When it comes to Aileen Cannon, you mentioned that she is inexperienced.

REID: Yeah.

BASH: Let me give a little bit of her background here. She was appointed by Donald Trump, just in 2020. She's been a federalist society member since 2005. No experience presided over -- presiding over classified cases. What is it like being in the courtroom with her?

REID: So when I was in the courtroom, what struck me is, she is obviously very conscious of the fact that she is under enormous scrutiny. She knows that. She clearly comes prepared with tough questions for both sides, to at least give the appearance, right, of being fair to everyone. But her inexperience shows through. I am just talking about when you are in the courtroom, in the special counsel's office and Trump's lawyers, as they are known to do, sort of get into it and start getting a little petty, keeping the control -- the control of her courtroom is something that she didn't demonstrate, such a contrast to, for example, Judge Tanya Chutkan, who oversees the other special counsel case here in D.C.

She has been on the bench for ten years. She is not having any of it. She is able to keep things moving along very quickly and keep her courtroom under control. And then you see sort of what comes through in the filings or the lack thereof, I mean, Aileen Cannon still has over a dozen very significant motions and issues hanging out there -- BASH: Wow.

REID: -- and based on what I've seen in the courtroom, based on what we've seen in the filings, it appears that in some ways, she is maybe just almost too afraid to make some of these decisions, understanding how much scrutiny she is under.

BASH: Is it afraid or is it deliberate? That is really one of the questions. And Elie, I want to bring you back in here just to remind people, it has been 34 days -- 34 days since Cannon held a hearing on scheduling the Mar-a-Lago documents trial. We thought maybe we would hear very shortly after that announcement 34 days ago on when the trial would be, and here we are.

HONIG: Yeah, Dana. I think the chances of this case being tried before the election are now approaching zero. Even Jack Smith is acknowledging there is no way this case will be tried in May as it was originally scheduled. I agree with Paula. I think the issue here is the judge's inexperience. I actually disagree with a narrative that is out there that Judge Cannon is somehow in the bag or pulling for trump because she could have dismissed these charges. She actually rejected an argument by Donald Trump that these charges should be dismissed outright.

But I do think that as Judge Cannon is realizing now, it is not easy to manage these cases. It takes experience. You have to juggle a lot of different motions. They are complicated. You have to get a lot done and I also agree with Paula that Judge Chutkan in D.C., who is more experienced both as a judge and in the courtroom, is showing much more command of the facts in the case in front of her. So look, inexperience is a real issue here, and I think she is learning on the fly and it is probably not the ideal scenario for that.

BASH: Paula, Elie, two of my favorite lawyers, and that says a lot. I know a lot of lawyers (inaudible) Washington.

Coming up, a liar and a damn fool, that's how a fellow Republican is describing House Speaker Mike Johnson. Manu Raju is going to be here after the break to tell us about that. You got to hear it, next.

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[12:43:02]

BASH: Mike Johnson is not working for Republicans, he is not helping Republicans, he is not even listening to Republicans. That is from a fellow Republican, Marjorie Taylor Greene. She is saying that about the house speaker as she is demanding, again, that he be replaced. CNN's Manu Raju has been following all of this drama on Capitol Hill. So Manu, she filed the potential of taking him out of the speaker's chair before they went away for recess, then it sounded like she was kind of not going to act on that. And now, has she changed your mind again? What is going on?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is unclear exactly the timing of all of this. Remember, just one member could call for the ouster of a sitting speaker if they decided to do that on the floor of the House, the House returns into session next week. We'll see if she decides to take a step then or if she will wait. But this kind of rhetoric would seem unthinkable years ago, (inaudible) one member of the conference attacking publicly the leader of their conference, let alone the speaker of the House.

But that has become commonplace in this bitterly divided House Republican majority in the aftermath of the ouster of Kevin McCarthy last fall. At that time, Marjorie Taylor Greene was aligned with Kevin McCarthy. But this time, much different (ph) with Mike Johnson and over his deal-cutting to keep the government open, his handling of that issue has propelled her to warn him that she actually may push him out of office. And speaking to Steve Bannon yesterday, she made it clear that she may very well go ahead with this push.

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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, (R-GA): He is not working for Republicans. He is not helping Republicans. He is not even listening to Republicans. He is doing the very dirty work of the deep state (ph). For Mike Johnson to actually think that his Republican conference supports sending $60 billion to Ukraine, he is a damn fool, Steve, and he is a liar.

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RAJU: And that last point, so critical, because Mike Johnson right now is weighing how to proceed with funding for Ukraine, emergency aid for Ukraine.

[12:45:00]

RAJU: Of course, this has been stalled in Congress for months. The Senate has already acted on a separate Ukraine package. Now, Johnson is trying to figure out if there is something that could get Republican support. But if you heard right there from Marjorie Taylor Greene warning him not to move ahead on Ukraine aid. But if she does decide to push him out, the question will be to, Dana, what do Democrats do? Do they decide to save him? And some of them say there is a price to saving them, and that's Ukraine aid.

BASH: I am so glad you said that we've almost become numb to rhetoric like this from Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene against their leaders, even their speakers. And it is not -- it is not normal or usual. Manu, I have to also ask about two members of the House who just disclosed that they are battling some serious health issues. What can you tell us?

RAJU: Yeah. Raul Grijalva, he is the Arizonian Democrat, a longtime Democrat, just announced that he has cancer. He is 76 years old. His office has said he is battling this and that he is going to try to make a recovery through this being discovered that he does have cancer. And also Lauren Boebert, she is much younger, 37 years old, but she just had underwent an emergency surgery for a blood clot in her leg. And of course, this underscores the fragility of this narrowly divided House Republican conference. It is unclear when Boebert will return, although her office says she is expected to make a full recovery, Dana.

BASH: Manu, thank you so much for that. Appreciate it. Up next, President Biden confronts demands from families who want to see their loved ones brought home, loved ones who are still being held hostage almost six months later by Hamas in Gaza. Stay with us.

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[12:50:50]

BASH: 180 days, that's how long Israeli hostages have been held captive in Gaza since the October 7 Hamas attack that includes at least six American citizens. Today, in a powerful demonstration of frustration, family members of hostages stormed the public gallery of the Knesset, Israel's parliament. Opposition members can be heard echoing their chant "Now."

Here in the U.S., Jewish groups are demanding more help from the White House. I'm joined now by Rabbi Moshe Hauer of the Orthodox Union. He is leading an effort to deliver 180,000 letters to the White House today, urging the president to continue to stand with Israel and to demand the hostages be released. Thank you so much for joining me. You said when you came to get ready that you believe that those 180,000 letters have been delivered or they are being delivered right now.

RABBI MOSHE HAUER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, ORTHODOX UNION: They are on their way right now. They're being delivered as we speak.

BASH: Now, I want to read part of the letter. It says April 3, 2024, which is today, marks 180 days since that black day, 180 days of the unimaginable torture of those held hostage in Gaza. Please continue to stand strong with Israel. It is the right thing to do today, and it will be long remembered. Talk about your goal here.

HAUER: Our goal is to have the moral voice, the moral clarity of President Biden and the Administration, which has been a critical, critical piece of support for Israel and clarity for the world since October 7. The world has misunderstood, the forums for resolving difficulties amongst nations like the United Nations still doesn't even acknowledge the reality of the rape and brutalization of the women that happened in hands of Hamas. They have still not been able to come together to condemn their action.

Now, the president has been a strong voice, standing up for what is true and what is right, focusing on the true humanitarian, most basic humanitarian issue here, which has the hostages. Today, the amount of time and words that are spent on humanitarian issues are vastly disproportionate around the ambiguous question of, well, how much aid is getting in? Israel is working to get it in. Israel is struggling on that. The story of these hostages is unambiguous. And yet, it is being negotiated. Innocent children for murderers with blood on their hands, we are trying to ask the president to restore moral clarity.

BASH: Let me ask you about that use, the term moral clarity, because 180 -- 18, I don't need to tell you, in Hebrew is Chai, which means life. And in the Jewish faith, every life matters. And there is a contradiction between that belief and some of what we are seeing and we know to be happening with regard to the retaliation and Palestinian civilians, many of whom are children and they are not Hamas terrorists. They are being killed are starving. How do you as a faith leader, as a Jewish leader, square that with the other bit of moral clarity, as you said, which is the need to destroy Hamas and also get those hostages back? When you -- when it comes to a life.

HAUER: Yes. So, we absolutely -- chai is not just a convenient, beautiful word or an emblem for a necklace. Chai, the value of life, cherishing life is a core, core value of our people. And we feel that it is perfectly on display. President Biden expressed yesterday that he was outraged and heartbroken over what happened to the workers of the World Central Kitchen. Every Jew, every Israeli is equally heartbroken over what happened to them and that is why in Israel today, yesterday, there is investigation, there is figuring out how to do it better. There is figuring out how this, which was essentially a friendly fire incident, which doesn't just kill aid workers or innocent Palestinians, but has (ph) --

BASH: And that's the aid workers.

[12:55:00]

HAUER: -- killed many soldiers.

BASH: But how do you -- but what about innocent --

HAUER: And Palestinians.

BASH: Innocent civilians.

HAUER: Absolutely, absolutely. The Israeli army is working with an ethic of trying in creative ways, unprecedented ways in modern warfare and in a situation which Hamas has created the impossibility of being able to separate them out by what they've done to try to preserve life. Recognize that Israel is grieving over the loss of innocent civilians. Hamas is celebrating as part of their strategy. They are not grieving over the death of the aid workers, the death of the aid workers makes their case better because it makes Israel look bad.

They have put themselves to put citizens in harm's way. That is the difference between a culture of chai, a culture that celebrates life, that is trying to preserve life -- of course, there is a primary value, a priority that every society, including Jewish has (ph), we have to preserve our own lives and we have an incredible value on trying to preserve the lives of others.

BASH: Rabbi Moshe Hauer of the Orthodox Union, thank you so much for coming. Appreciate it.

HAUER: Thank you.

BASH: Thank you so much for joining "Inside Politics." "CNN News Central" starts after a quick break.

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