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Biden, Netanyahu Hold Call As Outrage Grows Over Aid Workers Deaths; Trump On Gaza War: "Get It Over With Fast"; Trump: "We'll Be Making A Statement Next Week On Abortion"; Trump Allies Urge Him To Take A Position On Abortion; Trump Teases Abortion Announcement, Puts Campaign On The Clock. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 04, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on INSIDE POLITICS, President Biden is speaking right now with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. It may not be the friendliest of chats. Biden is said to be furious at how Netanyahu is prosecuting the war in Gaza. The question is, will there be any U.S. policy change?

Plus, the electoral battle in Nebraska. Donald Trump is demanding the state change how it awards its electoral votes. Nothing short of the outcome of the entire presidential election could hang in the balance. And thank you for being a friend. You will not want to miss how the DNC is using the Golden Girls guests. The Golden Girls to troll RFK Jr.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at INSIDE POLITICS.

We start up course with that phone call that we believe is still going on between Joe Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu. It's the first day they've had since seven aid workers were killed in Gaza in an Israeli airstrike.

CNN senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche joins us now. Obviously, if this call is going on, there's not a whole lot we know. But we do know what U.S. officials at the White House were saying about his -- the president's feelings going into this exchange.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Dana. The two leaders are on the phone as we speak right now that call happening and getting put together in recent days following the attack on the convoy of world central kitchen workers. It's unclear exactly how long the two leaders have blocked out for this call.

But earlier this week in response to that attack, President Biden mincing no words, saying he was outraged and heartbroken. And I'm told that it's that anger, frustration and demand for accountability that are going to be the themes of the call that's taking place today. There are some concrete issues that the president plans to raise with Prime Minister Netanyahu among those the need for improved safety and security for humanitarian workers. The U.S. has demanded behind the scenes in conversations with the Israeli defense forces as well as working level conversations between the two governments, the need to improve the deconfliction situation and the communication between leadership about where they know about humanitarian aid workers and what's happening on the ground. We also know that the two leaders are going to be discussing hostage and ceasefire deal talks, as well as the need to get more humanitarian assistance into Gaza.

And finally, the situation in Rafah. A senior administration official telling me that it is still unclear to the U.S. exactly what Israel's intentions are with regard to a major military operation there, despite the fact that the two sides held a long virtual meeting this week to try to discuss some alternatives there, Dana?

BASH: OK. I'm sure we'll be speaking to you as soon as we hear that this phone call is over. Thank you so much for that reporting. And some of President Biden's fellow Democrats are demanding that he do more than express outrage. They want him to demand Netanyahu change course, or risk losing American military support.

Here's Senator Elizabeth Warren today with my colleague Kate Bolduan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): We cannot continue down a path where Prime Minister Netanyahu's policy is to try to starve hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. We cannot approve the sale of arms to a country that is in violation of our own laws on this. And that includes access to humanitarian relief. Congress has responsibility here and I'm willing to take that responsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: We want to talk about all of this with our panel, CNN analyst Gloria Borger, Yasmeen Abutaleb of The Washington Post, and Jackie Kucinich of The Boston Globe. Let me just start with -- this is INSIDE POLITICS. So, let's just cut through what the politics are going on here.

Then you have President Biden saying through aides anonymously, even some on the record that he's outraged about what happened to these seven, eight workers. You have Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also saying, we don't care what you say U.S., we're going to do what we need to do. So much of each of what those men are doing is for their domestic political consumption and that is really important for people to understand.

[12:05:00]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is because they're both risking their political futures here, both of them. I mean, there's been a great outcry in this country. We've seen it in votes in states like Wisconsin for example, just the other day where people are voting uncommitted, or because they're upset at Biden's policy as they see what's going on in Gaza. And, you know, there's been a demand for an early election in Israel in September. And so, both of them hadn't -- they've never been close. I think they're less close now. And I think Biden has to find a way to get Netanyahu to listen and not just take the munitions and not just take the aid, but to listen to what he's saying. And that hasn't happened so far.

BASH: Or not to be too cynical or skeptical. I think it's been go ahead a word to at least make clear publicly that he is trying to get, yes, Netanyahu to listen.

BORGER: Yeah.

BASH: Really, I mean, that's also a part of why we know that this call is going on and so forth. But part of your point there is that the U.S. -- that the Biden administration -- this is new reporting from Natasha Bertrand. Did just recently authorized more bombs for Israel? And the reason is because it is the Biden administration's policy that Israel does have the right to defend itself and does support their attempt to dismantle Hamas.

YASMEEN ABUTALEB, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: That's absolutely right. The Biden administration and Biden himself will say their concern, their outrage. They've been saying for months. They want more humanitarian aid to get into Gaza. Now, Gaza is on the brink of famine. It's just a catastrophic humanitarian situation on the ground.

So, on the one hand, they're saying, we disagree with the way Israel's prosecuting this war. The civilian deaths are too high, aid workers need to be protected, the humanitarian situation is disastrous. But on the other hand, they're not conditioning or threat -- or even threatening to condition aid in any way.

At the same time, that they express outrage over, you know, these various incidents that have happened over the last few months. They very quickly will say, no, our policy isn't changing. No, we're not considering suspending our conditioning weapons. So, I talked to many people yesterday who said, as what Netanyahu -- Biden can express all the outrage he wants himself or through aids. But until he's willing to take some sort of punitive action or impose some sort of consequence, Netanyahu is not going to listen to a word of what Biden is saying.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE BOSTON GLOBE: And you're going to hear from -- I mean -- and you're going to hear from the other side that is just not enough until he does that. And he's getting pressure from both sides -- from all sides. But it seems like he's -- as much as he is trying to do his Biden thing where he emotes, and he tries to bring people in and listen -- they make them feel heard. It's not working here.

And I think another really interesting thing that happened I think, today, Chris Coons, who is a very close by an ally. You can usually see the world through -- you don't hear from Biden. You can hear it from Chris Coons. He's someone who just said today that he would support conditions. Should Netanyahu --

BASH: He said that on CNN.

KUCINICH: Yeah, on CNN. So, the deal is going to get --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Yeah. I don't know.

KUCINICH: But he -- but he said, he would be open to supporting conditions. And he said, I've never been here before.

BASH: Yeah.

BORGER: Senator Van Hollen is -- has been saying that for some time.

BASH: Can I just add one more name into the mix that I think is surprising. And I'd like to get your reaction to this, Gloria. I just spoke with Senator Lindsey Graham, who I mean, it's hard to find a more ardent supporter of Israel. It's right to defend itself. It's fight to dismantle Hamas.

Here's what he said to me. He said, the big prize here now is to end the Arab-Israeli conflict. That's a blow to Hamas and Iran. The war with Hamas has to be looked at through the prism of the bigger deal. I know Israel has to destroy Hamas, but operations in Rafah and in general, you have to look at these operations. How these operations affect the overall deal, which is normalization.

So just translation. He's basically saying, Israel needs to have a little bit of restraint here because they need to keep their eye on the prize, which is perhaps a deal with Saudi Arabia, which could actually have a really big effect on Gaza long term, not to mention the fact that it was those normalization talks that many people believe was the reason why Iran, you know, paid Hamas to have this attack to dismantle those talks, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: I always used to say to my kids, actions have consequences. And actions -- is that's what he's saying. He's saying, you know, you got to take the long view here. And I understand what you're doing. I understand the need to defend yourself. And we understand what Hamas did. But we need to take a longer view here about the future. And you know, as you pointed out, he's one of the most ardent supporters of Israel.

[12:10:00]

BASH: Yeah. Do you think this is telling? I don't know. It was -- it felt like to me when he said it.

BORGER: I think it's -- I think it's telling because I think what he's saying to Netanyahu is, you're not looking at the big picture here. You're just looking at the days of destruction, so you can go to people in Israel and say look, what I'm doing to Hamas. But, you know, he's saying there's more to it than that. And there's more to it than Bibi Netanyahu's political future.

BASH: Yeah.

BORGER: So, I do think it's important, Lindsey Graham is saying.

BASH: Yeah. And then you have the other man running for president or the other man running to beat Joe Biden, Donald Trump. And, you know, I think if you have paid attention to Donald Trump and saw what he did in the Mideast when he was president. You would think that he would say, Israel, do whatever you need to do. He's not saying that. Listen to what he told The Hugh Hewitt just this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R) (voiceover): What I said very plainly is get it over with, and let's get back to peace and stop killing people. And that's a very simple statement. Get it over with. They got to finish what they finish. They have to get it done. Get it over with and get it over with fast. They're losing the PR war. They're losing it big. But they've got to finish what they started, and they got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABUTALEB: I mean, I think this is a recognition, both Lindsey Graham's comments about looking to the bigger picture and Arab-Israeli peace. And then Donald Trump's comments are a recognition that this war is -- has been catastrophic for Israel's public image. There's a whole new generation of voters who have been protesting very fiercely since the start of the war.

Polls now show a majority of Americans disapprove of Israel's prosecution of the war. And so, I think there is a recognition by Republicans who are, of course, Israel's most ardent supporters. And of course, Joe Biden, that this war is costing them politically in terms of their support because there are these horrific images and the death toll that it being prolonged is not going to be helpful.

BASH: And Jackie, losing the PR war. That was I think, the key part of what Trump was getting at. And if you talk to a lot of Israelis, they don't care about the PR war. They've care about avenging what happened on October 7, and about destroying Hamas. So, it doesn't happen again.

KUCINICH: I mean, I'm not going to read in too much into that statement because it is so steeped in policy. I'm kidding. But I mean, it -- but what he's saying, get it over with. What does that mean?

BORGER: Yeah, exactly.

KUCINICH: What does that even mean? Does that -- that certainly doesn't point to you, you know, any kind of humanitarian situation. I think what he's saying as he's talking just about how it looks, not -- you know what is at stake here for all stakeholders.

BORGER: And what do you think Netanyahu is trying to do? He's trying to get it over.

BASH: Yeah.

BORGER: I mean, I'm all right. And so, I agree with you. I don't quite understand what Trump's point really is in the real world. What is get it over with me?

BASH: Yeah.

BORGER: We know they're losing the PR war. We got that.

ABUTALEB: Well, I think -- I think there's a growing fear and acceptance by U.S. officials that Netanyahu's prolonging this war for his own political survival as well. So, I think there is a sense that this is being dragged out. There's escalation now with Iran and Hezbollah because Netanyahu and his political interest to prolong the war.

BORGER: We're going to work well.

BASH: Thank you for saying that. But there's also an important conversation that we might have later, which is that a key member of the coalition says that there should be new elections in September. But we'll talk about that later.

Hopefully, we'll hear what happened in that call. Coming up. We're going to turn back to really important politics here in the U.S. After weeks of sidestepping the abortion debate, Donald Trump teases that he will be talking about it soon. We have new reporting on that next.

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BASH: It is a top issue for voters, and it is proving once again to be a political landmine, especially for Republicans, especially the man responsible for stacking the Supreme Court that overturned Roe. Now after months of going back and forth, Donald Trump says he will finally make his stance on abortion known.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, do you support the six-week abortion ban that the Florida Supreme Court just upheld?

TRUMP: We'll be making a statement next week on abortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN's Alayna Treene has been reporting extensively on this issue. She joins me now. This is one of these issues. I know your reporting bears this out that the president says something and then the team scrambles to figure out how to make that happen. ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's exactly what happened on Tuesday with that comment. It actually caught a lot of his advisors, you know, off guard. They were not expecting him to say that especially because this was asked of course in the context of Florida's new law that would essentially allow the six-week abortion ban to go into effect in 30 days.

And his team had put out a statement on that already. They had said that essentially offered some vague language that Donald Trump supports preserving life. But also, that he believes it should be left to the states to decide how to respond to this issue, of course. And then you heard Donald Trump say, we'll be making a statement on this next week, but love to take a step back.

Donald Trump has struggled with this issue, not only throughout the entire campaign, but ever since really, you know, Roe vs. Wade was overturned. And he's been asked about his responsibility for that. He's tried to have it both ways really. And he's -- you know, to some people he's saying look, I'm the one who stacked the Supreme Court with the justices who helped to get this done.

[12:20:00]

But then to others, both in public and in private, he saying this issue is a political loser for Republicans, especially in a general election. However, in recent weeks, I know that he has been receiving increased pressure from his outside allies. People like Kellyanne Conway, his former aide, Senator Lindsey Graham, people from anti- abortion groups. All pressuring him to clarify his position on this.

And it's something that his team who really have been wanting him to remain vague on are starting to acknowledge that. Look, he's going to have to do this at some point. I do want to just read to a quick quote from one of his top advisors who told me, essentially what I'm laying out here.

He said, quote. "The Democrats are making a big point of making abortion what they're going to go after us on. So, it's clear at some point he would need to spell out exactly where he stood on the issue. It's either do it now or later. I think from a PR standpoint, it's probably better to do it now."

And also, I can tell you Dana, that for weeks now, Donald Trump's team -- his policy team, I should say have been preparing some policy language on this. However, it's still unclear exactly what he's going to do. Because again, he's been kind of waffling between, you know, floating a 15 or 16 week ban on abortion, but also saying it should be up to the state. So, we'll see how that plays out behind the scenes over the next few days.

BASH: Such great reporting. Thank you so much for giving us a snippet of it. You can certainly see more on cnn.com. Let's talk about this here. One of the lessons that I heard many Republicans -- I'm sure you all have heard this as well that they got from the 2022 midterms, when they got their clocks cleaned in many, many places because an abortion was that their candidates had their heads in the sand too much. That they need to stand up and say this is what I'm for. Is that going to happen here? Is that what is being debated?

KUCINICH: I mean, that's certainly not what the top of the ticket is doing right now. But I do think he's a little bit on his own there. Because when you go to Congress, I mean, Republicans have -- most Republicans have taken a position on abortion. But there are that not only 2022, there are still warnings there. So, there's evidence that they didn't take it seriously.

Look at Glenn Youngkin. Look what happened to Virginia. He went all in what was on the 15-week ban. And that backfired on him. So, they can't not talk about it. And but they certainly haven't found a way to talk about it. They're trying to make 15 weeks sound like the reasonable solution to this and so far, you have a lot of people who are -- national. Yes. OK.

Alayna sort of mentioned the fact that Trump has been --

BORGER: Everywhere.

BASH: -- everywhere. Thank you for that word. Let's look at some examples of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: For 54 years, they were trying to get Roe v. Wade terminated. And I did. The greatest progress for a pro-life is now being made in the states where everyone wanted to be -- bringing it back to the states is a less important issue. Now I happen to be for the exceptions like Ronald Reagan, with the life of the mother, rape, incest. You have to have the three exceptions because it's just -- you know, there are a few places where you don't. Without the exceptions, it is very difficult to win elections. You have to follow your heart, the same time we have to win elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Feels like that last clip was the most candid and he has to make -- he has to make a decision, but he also has to win an election. He knows that this is going to --

BORGER: Well, that's Donald Trump saying to the Israelis, you have bad PR. This is -- he doesn't want to have bad PR. He wants to win. And he's looking at the elections. He's saying what a potent issue. This is for Democrats.

And on the one hand, it's kind of like the vaccine, you know, he used to take credit for the vaccine, just like he's taking credit for the Supreme Court. But now he doesn't talk about the vaccine because a lot of his supporters were opposed to it. And so now he doesn't know how to talk about abortion because a lot of his supporters are very pro- life and want the most stringent restrictions.

And that is not where he is -- in his heart, in his history. He was pro-choice. So, you know, we're going to have to wait and see what he says. And I'm not going to take any bets about where he comes down. But I bet they're doing some polling on it. BASH: You think?

BORGER: Yeah, yeah.

BASH: Let's look at a map that helps guide where this is going to be a very big issue. Well, first of all, we have -- you see the states that where abortion is totally banned. That's in kind of the orange color, the mustard color. There's a six to 18-week limit. Those are important data points.

[12:25:00]

The other are the states that where you don't see any of the names of the states or the abbreviations of this dates because it's got a very live -- a very liberal laws on it. If the president does decide that he supports a nationwide ban, that could potentially hurt him in some of those states. And some of them Michigan, Wisconsin are the swingiest of swing states.

ABUTALEB: Absolutely. And Democrats have won special election after special election mostly on this issue. So, it is -- it is an issue that's helping them. I know, the Biden campaign sees it as their sort of ace in the hole for all their other liabilities -- political liabilities on the campaign because voters are so energized by this issue.

And I think even though Trump and a lot of Republicans say, we support exceptions in the case of incest, rape and life of the mother. I think what we've seen in the states that have implemented bans or partial bans is that -- it's not that simple because doctors are at risk of being prosecuted or going to jail if they conduct abortions. Even when those cases arise, there's a very high burden of proof.

And we've heard now of just one devastating case after another where a woman is not able to get an abortion, even in one of those cases because of the law. There's just a very murky, legal minefield when you put these bans in place.

KUCINICH: Well, and I think if you're looking at that map, there's one gray state there --

BASH: Let's bring it back --

KUCINICH: -- that I just like to point out. And if you're in the Trump campaign, you're looking at -- and that's Ohio. Why it was -- what do you know about Ohio?

(CROSSTALK)

KUCINICH: But you know what, Ohio is red state for all intents and purposes. Now it used to be purple, now it's pretty darn red. And they had a ballot initiative and that was, you know, codified abortion rights.

BASH: Yeah.

KUCINICH: So, that's what they're looking at. There's one in Florida. There's one in Arizona.

BASH: That's such a good point -- very, very good point. OK. Don't go too far. But coming up the incredibly static presidential election. The national polls have been basically tied for months. So, which issues could tip the balance. And later, here's a potential nightmare scenario for you. 269 to 269 in the electoral college, a tie. It could very well happen if Donald Trump can convince Nebraska lawmakers to change their election laws.

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