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Jennifer Crumbley Speaks At Her Sentencing Hearing; Parents Of Michigan School Shooter About To Be Sentenced; James Crumbley Speaks At Her Sentencing Hearing; Father Of School Shooter: I Grieve For Everyone Affected; Judge Hears Appeal On Trump Gag Order In Hush Money Case; Jury Selection Set To Start Monday In NY Hush Money Case. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 09, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

SHANNON SMITH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR JENNIFER CRUMBLEY: And this court knows that there is other information that was not a part of this case. And I believe this court knows the defense was hugely hamstrung and I think that court is pains at times -- what to do.

JUDGE CHERYL MATHEWS, OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN CIRCUIT COURT: I guess (inaudible)

SMITH: I'm talking about not being able to call her medical professionals not being able to the shooters to stands, not able to cross examine juries (inaudible)

MATHEWS: (inaudible)

SMITH: I do believe the shooter would have helped and I do believe the forensic records would have helped. And I understand the court has already ruled on that. I understand that. I think the tendency though, after hearing narrative that has been a public has to make Jennifer Crumbley sound like a monster to build by her, to make her sound in a horrible mother and evil person.

And the truth is, if you were to put her in a category of other to say, this is not something that could happen to any of us and it is. It is something that could happen to any of us. And people fail to realize what this (inaudible) shows the court through numerous letters of support, that this is humbly does have a kind heart. She does have compassion. She has spent night after night, crying not for only herself and her son, but also for the victims and for what her son did and what she will live with, knowing he did and what she missed all the years forward.

At the end of the day, we asked the court to look at Ms. Crumbley's role in the offenses. We asked the court to consider that while she did not oppose having a gun in her home, she was not the person who was responsible for storing the gun and believed it was being stored properly and that it was locked. Ms. Crumbley obviously testified and all of the evidence at trial, so she believes there was a stream live (inaudible). MATHEWS: (inaudible) because you spend a lot of time talking about the fact that she didn't tell anybody about the gun. She didn't lie. She wasn't responsible for it. But at one time she was texting her husband to see whether or not he got the gun and how much it was. She posted pictures of it as her son's Christmas present. She was shocked. And I don't know if you're aware of this.

(inaudible) the first jury determine that there was a claim that the gun was the responsibility solely of defendant James Crumbley and was subsequently testified that when she returned to the (inaudible) 27th, it was fellow James Crumbley, who is responsible for (inaudible).

The first three recognize that the GPS of the case shows that even (inaudible) James Crumbley returning to the house. The shooter was videotaping the unlock sixth hour in the kitchen of the home. So that's not true. That's not true. She also testified that the (inaudible)

SMITH: Your Honor, first of all, the jury's finding about the timing of the GPS and when they got the video was made is not correct. The other end of the trial does not (Ph) support that we know that's not correct. And somebody locked the gun in the car so that James probably could put the gun in the house and store it correctly.

This is probably -- there were multiple cable lock in their house because there were -- there was more than one cable lock. There was not just the cable lock that was on the tower. There was more than one, right.

MATHEWS: (inaudible)

SMITH: There were not more than one found but whatever -- you can probably did with the cable lock from the six hour, we don't know.

MATHEWS: The door was unlocked.

SMITH: OK. Actually -- during this Crumbley's trial, it was not proven that the gun was not locked. I don't know what happened to James' trial -- James from this trial.

MATHEWS: You know about this statement (inaudible)

SMITH: Whose statements?

MATHEWS: Mr. Crumbley's statement.

[12:05:00]

SMITH: Mr. Crumbley and Ms. Crumbley talked about how the gun need to lock. In all of the other ones, I thought well, obviously --

MATHEWS: Go ahead. I don't think they have to show that she has no problem with the gun.

SMITH: And I'm not saying -- I said, you supported the gun, she didn't object to the gun. But when it came down to it, permission right from your narrative that she taught her son how to use the gun and it's very obvious watching the evidence in the trial, but she was not the one teaching how to use the gun.

MATHEWS: There's no (inaudible)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: You have been listening to a very emotional testimony earlier from the parents of students -- teenagers who were murdered by Ethan Crumbley back in 2021. And what they are discussing is the sentencing for his parents who were already convicted earlier this year of involuntary manslaughter. Now, the question is, how long will they be in prison?

I want to go straight to Jean Casarez, who has been following this trial since the beginning. And Jean, these four students killed at Oxford High School, not just four students, but also there was a teacher who was wounded, and six others also were wounded. Just before a fortnight -- just four students were murdered.

And listening, Jean, to their parents, talk in such vivid and yet kind of mundane terms about what it was like, not only the day that they were killed, regular days for their teenage kids, but also hold the things that the kids will miss in their lives because Ethan Crumbley 15 at the time, murdering them in cold blood. And the question is the culpability today of their parents.

We know that they've already been found culpable, but how much they will serve to pay their whatever debt that can be paid?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Dana, those victim impact statements were so carefully -- carefully crafted and planned out to show the emotion, to show the repercussions of what happened, to show a timeline of when they were wanting to know where the gun was. They're wondering where their child is. And the judge has to take this into consideration and fashioning the sentences is an important piece for her as she does all of this.

Now, the defense right now is arguing mitigating factors. That Jennifer Crumbley was not that involved with the gun. It wasn't her thing. The judge is not buying it. The judge is saying, she asked where -- if you bought it, she asked how much it was, and she started posting pictures on it.

But also, moments ago, we heard an allocution Jennifer Crumbley spoke to the court. And this is where she is begging for mercy. This is her last chance really, her only chance before that judge pronounces the sentence. And the prosecution is asking for 15 years, 10 to 15, but 15 years, that is the maximum here.

Defense Shannon Smith, who's speaking right now has offered the court. This is very novel that she has a guest house behind her home, and she will allow for Jennifer to get out of prison, be in home confinement with a GPS monitor in that guest house for the duration of any sentence. That is something I think we've never heard of before. But that is what they are proposing for Jennifer's punishment to be at this point. BASH: Yeah. And Jean, the idea that you said it is a very novel question about whether or not this is a way for her client, the mother Jennifer Crumbley to avoid being imprisoned. I also just want to -- just quickly ask you Jean, about the argument that she made that I am his mother. And it wasn't necessarily -- I'm obviously paraphrasing something that I did wrong, but this could happen to any of you.

I can't imagine given -- forgive me, I'm going to go right now back to the courtroom. Jennifer Crumbley, the father of Ethan Crumbley who was sentenced to life in prison for murder is now going to plead his case on his sentencing.

[12:10:00]

JAMES CRUMBLEY, FATHER OF OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTER: Before I address this court directly, I want to do something that I had never been able to do throughout this time until now. I want to say I can't imagine the pain and agony that the families -- for the families that have lost their children and what they're experiencing and what they're going through.

As a parent, our biggest fear is losing our child or our children. And to lose a child is unimaginable. My heart is really broken for everybody involved. I understand my words are not going to bring any comfort. I understand that they're not going to relieve any pain.

Quite frankly, they probably just don't believe me. However, I really want the families of Madisyn Baldwin, Hana St. Juliana, Tate Myre and Justin Shilling to know how truly -- how truly sorry I am and how devastated I was when I heard what happened to them. I've cried for you and the loss of your children more times than I can count. I know your pain and loss will never go away.

Part of you will be missing forever. But please know that I am truly very sorry. I am sorry for your loss as a result of what my son did. I cannot express how much I wish that I had done what was going on with him or what was going to happen because I absolutely would have done a lot of things differently.

Again, my heart pours out to every single one of you, it really does. Judge Mathews, I'm not going to -- I'm not going to overdo a lot of things that were already said. But I know the full amount of pressure that that you have on you and the responsibility that has been placed on you throughout this case.

I have the utmost respect for you. And I'm simply going to ask that you sentence me in a fair and just why. You presided over my trial and heard the evidence that was presented against me. You know that what my son did. I was not aware or that he was planning or that he obtained access to firearms in my house. There was absolutely no evidence that suggested that.

As my attorneys told you, I've been on lockdown for 23 hours a day. I have not been able to speak to my son since November 30th. And I'm not able to speak with my wife since December 3rd. I know that I have experienced pales in compassion to what those families who lost their children and countless other victims experienced every day because of what my son did.

But I want you to know, I to grieving for everyone, as I've explained. For everyone that's been affected by what my son pled guilty to doing. And I'll continue to feel this pain for the rest of my life as well. If I could go back and change things, if I could go back and do things differently, and maybe none of us would be I'm here today. So again, I asked your honor to impose a just and fair sentence based on the truth about what you heard during my trial.

[12:15:00]

I'm asking the court to sentence me to time served and placed me on probation for the maximum time allowed with the GPS center for as long as the court deems necessary. I also want to address one last thing. And that's to what tape Myre's dad said. It is time that we all know the truth. We have been prohibited from telling the whole truth, the whole truth has not been told. And I'm with you, Mr. Myre. I too want the truth because you have not had it. You have not had the truth at all. The truth has not been presented to you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Honor. I did submit a sentencing memorandum. Your Honor, I'm not going to belabor the points that I made in my memorandum. If I do believe that it was thorough, however, I do want to note for the court that it specially in statements that have been made about James that he lacks remorse that he doesn't feel bad. That he's trying to put out --

BASH: We just heard James Crumbley the father of Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley throw himself at the mercy of the court as the judge decides what his sentencing will be. Just as a reminder, James Crumbley just like his wife Jennifer, were each separately convicted on four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

And one of the reasons at least for James Crumbley is because prosecutors said that the parents showed a quote, chilling lack of remorse. And for him -- for James Crumbley, the prosecuting attorney Karen McDonald, said that Crumbley called threatening. Saying there will be retribution, believe me.

Jean Casarez, I know that you're still here with us. That is a very different approach that you just heard him take now, which to me sounded a lot more contrite than Jennifer Crumbley and her speech just shortly before he spoke. A tearful saying that I know you don't believe me to the family members of the four teenagers whom his son killed. I'm sorry for your loss. I would have done a lot of things differently and I to grieve for your children. Jean?

CASAREZ: You know, Dana, a very interesting point at the end. When he said that to the parents. He said, I want to echo at Tate Myre's father said, we want to know the truth. You do not know the whole truth. You don't know it. And that goes along with I think in a legal issue that may come about on appeal, because both parents wanted their son Ethan Crumbley to come into the courtroom during their trials and to testify.

Because Ethan had texted to his friend in the middle of the night. I have asked my dad to help me. I need mental help. He told me to suck it up and take a pill. Well, once he was arrested, Ethan Crumbley, he had a jail psychiatrists talk with him and assessing him but asking him about different things.

And one of those things was the text that he wrote about his mental health. He told according to testimony in the Miller hearing, which was Ethan Crumbley's precursor to his sentencing hearing. He told the jail psychiatrists that he lied. He said, you know, I never asked my dad for help. That's a lie. I just said that to my friend.

And the parents wanted that testimony to come into the trial to show that they did not know mentally what was happening to him. But the appellate attorneys for Ethan Crumbley said, no. First of all, he is not going to waive his Fifth Amendment right to come in and testify to that. Secondly, these are medical records, we're not waiving those medical records.

[12:20:00]

So, there was no way for the parents to counter that text that he wrote to his friend, unless they took the stand to say we didn't know that. James Crumbley opted to not take the stand. That's his constitutional right. So that came in without anything to counter it.

BASH: Very interesting. And yeah, there's no question that what you said is true. We will probably see and hear a lot of that on appeal. And just to reiterate what the judges deciding is, how much -- if any prison time each of these individuals, the parents of Ethan Crumbley to get and they each face up to 15 years in prison.

And we're going to take a quick break. But before we do, I want to remind people, the individuals, the teenagers that we're talking about who were murdered in the prime of their life -- before they were even getting started really with their lives. Madisyn Baldwin, age 17. Tate Myre, age 16. Hana St. Juliana, age 14. Justin Shilling, age 17. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: More breaking news at this hour. Donald Trump's legal team is about to leave New York City courthouse after a hastily called hearing about the latest gag order placed on the former president in his hush money case.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is following these developments. Katelyn, what happened inside that courtroom?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, our team in New York is following this quite closely and things are moving quite fast here. Dana, there was this appeal that Donald Trump -- his team took to the court today over the gag order that he is under where he can't speak about witnesses, court staff, the D.A.'s office, even the judges' family.

His attorneys in those arguments said, he might be rude, but this isn't incitement. This is something that is causing Donald Trump irreparable harm. And there apparently was a request to delay the case on the table as well from his team. That's not going to happen. According to the reporting we're getting out of our team in New York.

Just after that appeal was heard, we get the decision. Just a few minutes ago, there isn't going to be a delay of the trial because of this gag order issue. The D.A.'s office was clearly successful in arguing to the appellate judge that the witnesses are hesitant that this gag order is within the law.

So, there's going to be a flurry of things that happen as we await the beginning of this trial on Monday. And that flurry right now is Donald Trump's team making these requests to delay, to move the case out of New York to challenge the gag order. And the appeals court in New York Supreme Court, they're looking at these quite quickly and giving same day decisions.

BASH: Yeah. That I was just going to say -- I mean, not only same day, like five minutes after the hearing was over. I want to stand by for one second. Katelyn. I want to bring in former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Elie Honig. Elie, what's your read on what just happened in that courtroom in New York?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Dana, a zero surprise on this one. First of all, even if there was going to be some modification, some change to the gag order made by the appeals court, that would have nothing to do with this trial starting as scheduled on Monday, April 15.

And second of all, this gag order is very narrow. It's actually quite remarkable to hear Donald Trump say it infringes on his rights or it's impeding his ability to defend himself because all that the gag order does is it prohibits Donald Trump from commenting publicly about jurors, about witnesses, and then about court and prosecutor, staff and family members.

He is free and he has taken full advantage of his freedom to attack the case, the judge himself and the D.A. himself. So, it's no surprise Donald Trump lost this one. And as Katelyn said, he's been losing these arguments really quickly. I think collectively the judges in the New York State system are sending a message that this thing is going on Monday and he's not getting out of it.

BASH: Yeah. It's hard to understand the Trump attorney argument that having him not talk about the judges' family or potential jurors is doing the former president irreparable damage. This is going to happen it seems in six days. So, what's going to happen soon is -- or first is jury selection.

I want to read a part of the questionnaire for potential jurors. Have you ever considered yourself a supporter of or belonged to any of the following. The QAnon movement, Proud Boys, OathKeepers, Three Percenters, Boogaloo Boys, Antifa. Elie, can you -- I mean, the question is pretty straightforward. The idea is they're trying to weed out people who are pro Trump, we should also give some context. This is Manhattan. And this is a place where Joe Biden won by 86.7 percent, Donald Trump by 12.3 percent. I guess there certainly could be part of that 12.3 percent in the potential jury pool.

HONIG: Yeah, Dana. This questionnaire is really interesting because it's doing a dance of sorts. What it's trying to do is figure out where do you stand on Donald Trump? Do you have views for or against him that are so strong that you can't possibly rule fairly on that case?

Now they do ask that question straight up. Is there anything about your views of this case or Donald Trump --

BASH: Yeah. We can put that up.

HONIG: Yeah. We give you from answering fairly.

BASH: We can put that up, forgive me. Question number 34, as you continue to talk, then we interrupt you out.