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VP Harris Expected To Call Trump The "Architect" Of Abortion Crisis; VP Harris Heads To Arizona After Near-Total Abortion Ban; Biden Campaign's Message On Abortion Bans: "Trump Did This"; Jury Selection Begins Monday In First Trump Criminal Trial; Trial Begins Next Week After Trump Repeatedly Fails To Delay It; Speaker Johnson Heads To Florida To Meet With Trump. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 12, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, going on offense. Vice President Harris is on her way to Arizona where she'll attack Republicans for the state Civil War era abortion ban that could soon be back in effect. Now it's an issue and a state that the Biden campaign hopes will carry them to reelection.

Plus, it's the final countdown. The people of the state of New York versus Donald Trump that kicks off on Monday. The former and perhaps future president will spend the next two months in court fighting criminal charges. We have new reporting on team Trump's plans for inside that courtroom.

And where does a Republican go when fighting for political survival, Mar-a-Lago, of course. Today Speaker Mike Johnson lands in Florida but will embracing Trump's election denial protect Johnson from the pitchforks in the House Republican caucus.

I'm Audie Cornish in for Dana Bash in Washington. And we're going to head behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

First up, Vice President Harris has a message for the people of Arizona where abortion rights are rolling back to the time before x rays and antibiotics. That message is Donald Trump did this. And CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is there. Give us a little sense about how the vice president will be talking about this today?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, sources telling me that this is going to be an opportunity for the campaign to really hammer home that they say, Donald Trump poses a threat. He poses to personal freedoms and also healthcare in tying these unpopular abortion bans directly to former President Donald Trump.

Now in her prepared remarks that were shared with reporters, the vice president is expected to cast this state court ruling as a quote, one of the biggest aftershocks yet from the overturning of Roe v. Wade. She's also expected to say the following quote, Donald Trump is the architect of this healthcare crisis. And as much harm as he has already caused, a second Trump term would be even worse. If Donald Trump gets the chance, he will sign a national abortion ban. How do we know? Look at his record. Congress tried to pass the national abortion ban before in 2017, and then President Trump endorsed it.

Of course, the Biden campaign sees abortion as a salient political issue that can mobilize voters, especially in the critical battleground state of Arizona. And in fact, the Biden campaign launched an ad buy -- this week a seven-figure ad buy here in the state following that court ruling, claiming again putting the blame squarely on Donald Trump when it comes to the issue of abortion.

And just moments ago, the vice president putting out a fundraising email on this exact issue. So, you can expect that she's going to package this message of the threats that Donald Trump poses particularly on personal freedoms and healthcare all around reproductive rights.

Here in Tucson, Arizona, later this afternoon, of course, Democratic strategist tells me that ultimately this state court ruling serves as another data point in the Democratic argument against Republicans on this very issue. And one that she will be hammering home today.

CORNISH: All right. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much. I want to bring in my panel on this, CNN's Melanie Zanona, Semafor's David Weigel, and Seung Min Kim of the Associated Press. Welcome to all of you.

All right. So, Vice President Harris has tried to make this her issue. I think she's talked about being on a national tour. She has visited with abortion clinic providers. I want to start with you, Seung Min. What does it say that she's the one who is being put forward on this message? Is she more effective than Biden in one way or another?

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: I think Democrats in the White House I believe she has been just by nature, a much more effective messenger than perhaps President Biden himself. This has actually been --

CORNISH: In particular groups or particular issues?

KIM: Just on abortion, especially. I mean, this was essentially put in our portfolio immediately after the Dobbs' decision in June of '22. We know that President Biden, while he has been a supporter of abortion rights. His administration has done. What they say all they could to protect care in the aftermath of the Dobbs' decision.

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President Biden personally has not always been comfortable with the idea of abortion. And he has -- he is a devout Catholic. He doesn't say the word a lot. He has said in private fundraisers. He's indicated in private fundraisers and sort of discomfort with the whole issue. And Kamala Harris being a woman, being a prosecutor who's dealt with a lot of these issues. The Biden administration and the Biden campaign feels she can, you know, prosecute this issue much more effectively than perhaps the president would.

CORNISH: You know, in reaction to what's happened in Arizona. You know, it's very interesting because basically, when they pass this bill, it was always baked in that this law from 1864 could come to the forefront. So, everybody who voted for it, knew this provision was buried in there. And at the same -- so that means there's a ton of tape of them talking about lobbying for it. Here's an example of then gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake back in 2022.

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KARI LAKE, (R) ARIZONA SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. I believe it's ARS 13-3603. So, it will prohibit abortion in Arizona except to save the life of a mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, now she's running for Senate, and of course -- and she wants to repeal this law and Democrats are already pointing out on social media. Sort of her past comments, Ruben Gallego, a Democrat who's running against her for Senate is among those. But specifically, Dave, he says no amount of backpedaling will make us forget. Will this come off as backpedaling to voters?

DAVID WEIGEL, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Well, I think it already has and the politics of this -- within the state are not going her way. Because if you're Republican -- if you're a probably believes in this and wanting to get rid of her or wanted the state to ban abortion. One you knew this is on the books for a long time. I interviewed the current attorney general who was running three years ago, and she said this, this might happen.

And two, why would you vote for a bill the waters this down? They already tried this week. The speaker of the House is running for Congress in a safe conservative district. Is it in his interest to undermine something that this -- that the prolife movement just won a generational multi --

CORNISH: And they have momentum?

WEIGEL: Right. And so, you're starting to see the separation. Kari Lake is part of this. Donald Trump's part is one side. Separation from Republicans who were very transactional and how they handled this and Republicans who believed it. And Donald Trump has stumbled on this multiple ways this week. I think Lake has starting to too.

But Trump even by saying that he endorses referendums states, which Lake is going to have to take a position on. He angered a lot of people in the prolife movement who say, this is a issue of human life. This is not an issue that you can vote on --. CORNISH: Let me jump in there. You're bringing up referendums because the abortion rights activists are already collecting signatures in Arizona to put a ballot referendum, protecting abortion out there for November. But they join a long list of states who are doing this, including Florida, Maryland, Nevada, New York.

Melanie, is this starting to actually shift the conversation about what's possible for let's say, Democrats in November?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yeah, absolutely. In talking to Democratic sources on Capitol Hill, they see these ballot initiatives as a potential to juice turnout, particularly among some of these demographics who might sit out, who might not be enthusiastic to vote for Biden, but they will get out for these ballot initiatives. And Democrats are really expanding their battleground map because of it.

CORNISH: Yeah. I want to add The Cook Political Report actually has -- but we looked at their list of toss up districts. There were a number of states, Arizona and New York included, where lawmakers may have to deal with a ballot vote.

ZANONA: Yeah. And some of those states that you're throwing up there, those are where the past -- the majority really runs. And in talking to Republicans, oftentimes they will say things like, well, we just have a messaging problem, and we just need to message better. But what's happening in Arizona is a perfect example. It's not the message that's unpopular. It's the policy itself. And this policy was because Roe v. Wade was overturned.

CORNISH: But is inadvertently, Seung Min, as a message turning into will support bans of 15 weeks. Do you know what I mean? Like right now in Arizona, they're trying to create a choice that says, we'll repeal this law from 1864. And instead, will have this restriction this abortion ban up to 15 weeks, which to me says you're still somehow allowing for abortion.

KIM: Right.

CORNISH: What is the message that's starting to coalesce?

KIM: I mean, that's a really good question. Because if you look at the -- if you look at the referendum that Arizona is -- are trying to put before voters in November. That looks at protecting abortion until viability, which is much further along than 15 weeks is about 24 weeks when a fetus is considered viable, especially in this context.

So I think, you know, what that says to perhaps voters in Arizona is that the Republican Party is still a party that largely wants to restrict access to the procedure, regardless of whether it's this 1864 law that's on the books or, you know, that will go along -- will be on the books in a matter of days or this 15 week ban, which is why Republican strategist, especially looking at voters in Arizona.

[12:10:00] They're really hoping that if this referendum is on the ballot, that voters can kind of make a dual decision. You know, they might support this referendum, but maybe they support Donald Trump at the top of the ticket because issues like the border and the economy are more important to them.

CORNISH: OK. But David this is about turnout getting people excited and this -- there's no message here right, that they're still fighting. How do you hold on to the energy on the right, those abortion, anti-abortion activists, while still telling them, we'll pump the brakes, we don't want to go that far?

WEIGEL: No, it's a quandary the Trump campaign hasn't figured out yet. And one thing that Democrats have been talking about and we'll talk more about it in Arizona today, next week throughout the election, is this is -- it's not just up to the states.

There are a lot of policies that Trump put in place in office when he had conservative lawyers in the DOJ and HHS that he -- that they expect him to bring back. But they're on record saying he's going to bring back. Biden created after the -- before and after the fall of Roe, a reproductive rights task force conservatives, The Heritage Foundation wants to get rid of that and create a prolife task force.

CORNISH: Yeah. I think the Biden message has become more pointed. Trump did this --

WEIGEL: Right.

CORNISH: Any way your rights and the Republican messages become sort of messier. Melanie, I want to leave it to you. What does this mean for issues like migrants and crime? I mean, all of a sudden, Kamala Harris can march right up to the border right, be in a border state when a few months ago it would not have flown the same way.

ZANONA: Right. It's really interesting, Arizona. Because now abortion immigration will -- it's probably going to be the two biggest issues in November broadly. You're seeing it most impacted in Arizona, so that's really becoming ground zero for both of these issues.

CORNISH: Instead of what they want it.

ZANONA: Right, exactly. So, you're going to see that Republicans are going to try to seize on the border issue. Democrats seasoning on abortion. But just like we're talking about Republicans need to address abortion, Democrats feel like they also need to address the border issue. And say, what they would do on immigration also laying out legal pathway to citizenship as they're talking about trying to secure the border. So, it's an issue that they're definitely have to wrestle with.

CORNISH: All right. Well, stay with us. Because we're going to be talking about Donald Trump who may be out of legal tricks and out of time. Jury selection in his hush money trial begins in just three days. We're going to take a look -- closer look at what we can expect on Monday in New York. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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CORNISH: After trying every legal option out there to delay his New York hush money case, the former president's first criminal trial is just three days away. This is an extraordinary moment in U.S. history. A former president and presumptive presidential nominee is about to sit in court, four days a week as a criminal defendant. All for allegedly covering up hush money payments to an adult film star before the 2016 election.

Now, the judge says that the trial could last for two months. Trump will have to be in court for all of it. And what happens there could define the presidential election and who ultimately ends up in the Oval Office next year.

So, CNN chief legal correspondent Paula Reid is joining us now along -- again with Seung Min and David. Thanks for staying with us. So first remind us, which case this is? I mean, I'm not going to lie. There's so many. So, what about this particular one should we be looking out for?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, it's so funny. Even in this case, it's often referred to as the hush money case. But the district attorney's office doesn't like that. They're trying to rebrand it as the 2016 election interference case. But at the heart of this case is this agreement, this hush money payment that was made to Stormy Daniels to keep quiet about her affair with then candidate Trump.

Now there's nothing wrong with paying someone to keep quiet about a relationship that you had with them.

CORNISH: I mean, a little weird, but yeah.

REID: Look, it's not something that --

CORNISH: Yeah.

REID: But for the grace of God, right? OK. So, moving on from that. The case is focused on how Michael Cohen who was reimbursed for facilitating that hush money payments. So, the charges are about falsifying business records. That's the alleged crime here, but people are actually -- mostly familiar.

CORNISH: The main funds are just a court --

REID: With his own funds.

CORNISH: OK.

REID: Now, to make it even more complicated, the argument is that these business records were falsified in an effort to interfere with the election. In order to charge this as a felony, you have to argue that these were falsified in furtherance of another crime, even though that crime is not charged and does not have to be proven. So, it's a complicated case but at a high level. This is about falsifying business records related to that hush money payment ahead of the 2016 election.

CORNISH: All right. In terms of witnesses, who might we expect to see in court?

REID: A lot of familiar faces, potentially, Michael Cohen, who is at the center of this, though a problematic witness. Given his continued comments about the former president, his disdain for him. Who is at the center of this, Stormy Daniels could potentially be called, David Pecker, the former head of AMI, which was helping to facilitate hush money payments to help Trump's chances in the election to suppress negative stories.

Now, there's also campaign officials who we know also worked in the White House, Kellyanne Conway, Hope Hicks. These are some folks that we could see on the witness stand throughout the course of this trial.

CORNISH: All right. So, I want to bring in the group here because we were just sort of joking about like, oh, oh, which one is this. And it is interesting. Sarah Longwell, who is a Republican pollster, full disclosure, self-described never Trumper. She was saying that when she was talking to voters that they kind of look at this case a little bit differently.

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SARAH LONGWELL, HOST, THE FOCUS GROUP PODCAST: Just the word porn star, which you're going to hear over and over again, it's just the kind of thing that makes people laugh it off as not serious, even though this is about, you know, corporate checks being passed and trying to hide things before an election, so it didn't get out.

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Even though that's what it's about like, it's the voters are going to interpret this one more -- I think, a little bit more through Trump's frame as, this is them trying to get me on something silly than they would something like the January 6 case or the documents case, where when they are taken singularly, see more serious to voters than this one does.

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CORNISH: Dave, I want to put this question to you because -- and get this out of the way because you're -- I think she's got a point. You say porn star and people all of a sudden, it's something different. How are you hearing it as you're out reporting?

WEIGEL: Well, the important thing for Republicans is they've already built over years a superstructure for everything. Trump is accused of everything he's in court for, which is the deep state is trying to take out Donald Trump. And it's true for their base that that is how everything is handled.

Compare this to 2016. You could find Democrats saying, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton, but I had my concerns about how she handled her email. You cannot find that in Republican Party. They will say everything he's accused of is a ruse. And they're doing this because they can't beat him fairly.

Look at the polls. That I think does obscure the poll. So, to say, most people are rotary -- Ipsos last week, Politico, everyone who polls this finds most voters -- most independents don't like the idea of what Trump is accused of and don't like the idea of him being convicted. And this is --

CORNISH: Yes, specifically.

WEIGEL: And that this is the one he might be a victim for the election.

CORNISH: Most voters thinking that Trump charges are serious as well.

WEIGEL: Right.

CORNISH: I want to ask one other thing. Trump has proved that he can wield court appearances, right, and create a kind of spectacle with them. So, Seung Min, what does that mean for what is going to be this kind of daily case? Do you think that there's more spectacle to come? And if so, what does the Biden White House if anything, do about it?

KIM: Right. I mean, we are in a very historic moment here next week. So, it's going to consume a lot of public oxygen, a lot of the political oxygen. This will be asked about basically everywhere you go, whether it's at the con -- whether it's on Capitol Hill or at the White House or on the campaign trail.

But what the Biden campaign is going to do is really kind of steer focus away from that. When they've tried to make the contrast with Donald Trump, they actually haven't talked too much about his specific legal troubles. They like to make the contrast with what he would do in office if he's elected.

CORNISH: As it also plays into the deep state concern, right?

KIM: Very much -- a very much. So next week, they're going to really focus on tax issues. Biden's traveling to Pennsylvania, obviously a key state in November. So, you're going to hear a lot of that and might not get the attention.

(CROSSTALK)

CORNISH: But Paula, I want you to have the last word because more than 500 Manhattanites have gotten notices to appear in the criminal court. They've got a select 12. Trump has always made a lot of hay about who's on juries. Where the jurisdiction is that that means something. But how should we think about what's happening in New York?

REID: It's a daunting process to try to whittle this group down to a group of 12 impartial jurors and then some alternates.

CORNISH: Impartial, but like the world's most famous person.

REID: Exactly. And you're -- it's not -- he can't be argued that he is likely at a disadvantage here in terms of the fact that he is the most famous person in the world. Most people are familiar with this and there is an anti-Trump sentiment, right, within this triplet price skews anti-Trump even though you'll find people who did vote for him and continue to support him. So, they're going to go through all this process.

CORNISH: And it only takes ones (Ph), right, an enquiry to change things.

REID: Exactly. And I think that it's going to take a couple days to go through a hundred people at a time and whittle them down. But the defense -- look, they are at a disadvantage. He side gets 10 preemptive talent challenges. But if you're already dealing with a pool, that is slightly skewed against your client that's -- you know, that's a disadvantage.

But the judge has found that, look, this is not going to prevent you from getting a fair trial here. But I think it is an open question about whether there will definitively be a conviction and that's not based on the feelings or opinions of the jury pool. That's basically the facts that --

CORNISH: Right. But whether they can proof that a felony has been --

REID: -- structure of the case. Yeah.

CORNISH: Well, we're going to be talking about this a lot for days and days and days, over the next few months. Please watch CNN for special live coverage of the Trump hush money trial. You can actually see it Monday at 10 am eastern, right here on CNN and also on streaming on Max.

Now ahead, Donald Trump will host embattled Speaker Mike Johnson in Florida later today, as the GOP led House swirls in turmoil.

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CORNISH: It's the buildup before the kiss up. Later today, House Speaker Mike Johnson will make a joint appearance with Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. There'll be pushing fears of illegal voting by non- citizens, despite little evidence that that's an issue. But it may be Trump's priority.

House Speaker Johnson it's probably his own job security. That's important to him. As fellow Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene continues her campaign to oust him. So, we're going to bring in two great reporters to talk about this. CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, also CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Lauren, I want to start with you. Speaker Johnson travels to Florida. He's going to stand side-by-side with Trump, but it's kind of a delicate time for him to do so, right?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. It's a delicate time perhaps, Audie, but perhaps it's also the best time for him to do this. As there are a lot of questions swirling around whether or not he is going to continue to keep his speaker's gavel as he continues to try to pass several priorities in the next couple of weeks.

What we are seeing today is this fight over FISA, the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act renewal happening on Capitol Hill. And just a few hours ago, even before this vote started, you saw Marjorie Taylor Greene. You can see her there on the bottom left of your screen with Speaker Mike Johnson. They had this very lengthy back and forth. It's unclear precisely what they were talking about.