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Trump & Johnson To Make Joint Appearance At Mar-a-Lago; Biden Cancels Another $7.4 Billion In Student Loan Debt; Experts Warn New Trump Tariffs Could Trigger Recession; Why Swing Voters Are Looking Seriously At RFK Jr.; Trump: RFK Jr. Is "The Most Radical Left Candidate". Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 12, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And just a few hours ago, even before this vote started, you saw Marjorie Taylor Greene, you can see her there on the bottom left of your screen with Speaker Mike Johnson. They had this very lengthy back and forth. It's unclear precisely what they were talking about.

But I asked Johnson about it later and said, you know, was she applying pressure to you? What was she trying to ask for? And he said that they usually agree in terms of conservative priorities, but that they sometimes disagree about the strategy and the best way to implement their policy ideas.

And, obviously, this has been something that's been going on for the last several weeks. And it's just not clear if Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to try to bring in force this effort to oust Speaker Mike Johnson at any anytime she could do so. That is part of the reason that Johnson sort of needs this backup this moment, this photo up of him and Donald Trump, someone who still has a stranglehold on the Conservatives here on Capitol Hill.

So that is what you are going to see playing out -- play out today. He was asked specifically Johnson was whether or not he was going to ask Donald Trump for advice about this question of his ousting. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you planning on speaking with President Trump about the motion to vacate?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I don't ever comment on my private conversations with President Trump, but I'm looking forward to going to Florida and spend some time with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: Interestingly, Mike Johnson also would not say when or how Ukraine aid is going to pass on the floor. That's another issue that Donald Trump has been railing against. And, obviously, something we're going to be keeping a close eye on because it could have a huge impact, Audie, on whether or not he's able to keep his job.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Kristen Holmes, I want to ask you, we know what Mike Johnson wants out of this. But what's in it for Trump?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think, well, Trump is given an opportunity to talk about how the 2020 election was stolen or how election systems are rigged. He's going to take it particularly it gives him gravitas to the situation to have two top Republicans, really the top two Republicans right now to stand side by side in their first press conference and talk about it.

Now, I do want to talk a little bit about what exactly they are saying because one of the big things that they're going to talk about is this idea of non-citizens voting. They say they're going to bring attention to state proposals and lawsuits that might make that an issue.

As you said, there's no indication it is an issue anywhere. And I want to be very clear, there is currently a federal law banning non- citizens from voting in federal elections, which are the only elections that these two men really are focusing on at this time.

However, it has become somewhat of a rallying cry for Republicans, Donald Trump himself has gotten far enough to say that Democrats want undocumented immigrants crossing the border in order to help them in the 2024 elections. Now, there are some nuances here.

There are some cities and some states that are allowing non-citizens to vote in very particular local elections, one of those being school board elections, just sort of idea, but there is no indication that this is a widespread issue.

CORNISH: All right, Kristen, thanks so much.

You know, bringing back my panel here. What I'm interested in is what they're not talking about, Ukraine aid or just about anything else. So Melanie, help us understand what -- how is this helpful to Johnson, other than maybe protective?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes.

CORNISH: Does it help with any of the array of things he's trying to pass?

ZANONA: So, I've actually been told that some allies to Johnson have counseled him to try to keep Trump in the loop on anything he plans to do on Ukraine and that they really want Trump's buy in because I think there is a recognition here that Trump can make or break not only the legislation, but also Mike Johnson's speakership.

Now, it's an open question whether Trump can get behind anything. Johnson has floated the idea of turning the aid into a loan, which is something Trump has previously expressed support for. So we'll see. But Johnson is treading very carefully here on all of these issues that we're talking about.

CORNISH: I feel like there's a timer over Speaker Johnson's office, right, like a countdown timer.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right.

CORNISH: What's your sense of how this can help him again someone like a Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is very well known for sort of having Trump's ear or at least is having -- him having hers?

KIM: Right, right. Well, I mean, having Johnson and Trump stand side by side, I think is the hope is that even with someone like Marjorie Taylor Green, you know, you know, hanging this, you know, the threat of a motion to vacate over Speaker Johnson said that Trump is ultimately the one in charge here. Maybe he can counselor her away from making that decision.

Because I think we know that having another leadership fight in this election year would be absolute chaos for the Republican Party. And most Republicans, especially in election year, do not want that. Donald Trump doesn't want that. They -- he knows this is not going to be helpful to his reelection chances.

So even just that visual of those two men standing side by side projecting that unity, it feel could be helpful to Johnson at the end of the day.

CORNISH: Yes. David, last word to you? Is there any incentive to pass anything, right? Like, does Donald Trump want a productive Congress?

[12:35:04]

DAVID WEIGEL, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: No, the Senate we're seeing that any progress towards some sort of tax deal by the end of the year is being killed because Republicans want Donald Trump to win. They're not getting incentives for anything getting done.

From Johnson's perspective, though, he's going to keep getting embarrassed by something or other. He's lost a lot of conservatives light green over the handling spending bills, but next week, we're going to see the Mayorkas impeachment effort probably die in the Senate. Not 100 percent sure yet.

Marjorie Taylor Greene said she's going to bring it back up in the House if it fails. So his calendar, every time they're in session, there is going to be something that he loses on that irritates maybe the entertainment wing of the party, you can call it. The people on talk radio online who want wins and are angry this guy can't deliver them.

CORNISH: Feels like watching someone step on a rake over and over again.

Next, new reporting on how Trump's economic plan for a second term could send the U.S. into a recession. We're going to break down the numbers for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:29]

CORNISH: The Biden administration announced another round of student loan forgiveness this morning. This time it's $7.4 billion in debt for 277,000 borrowers. Now the Supreme Court blocked a much broader Biden effort on student debt. But as Election Day nears, the administration has ramped up its efforts to white clear the debt of millions of Americans. And the White House says in total, its efforts have now helped 4.3 million people.

Now, we want to take a look today at one of the many ways that this election could impact your life, especially economically. So we're also having new reporting about Donald Trump's economic policies, specifically, tariffs and what they could do to the economy.

Trump has floated a 10 percent across the board tariff on imports from anywhere and an even bigger 60 percent tariff on all goods coming from China. Now that's on top of 100 percent tariff on foreign cars. In a worst case scenario, some economists fear that those plants could trigger a recession.

CNN's Matt Egan is here with his new reporting. OK, Matt, help us square this. What are you seeing?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Well, Audie, remember, Trump loves tariffs so much that he dubbed himself the tariff man. And he's made clear that if he wins in November, the tariff man sequel will be even bigger than the original. Now remember, a tariff is a tax on imported goods. And he's floated this 60 percent tariff on inputs imports from goods from China.

So that means if you were buying, let's say, a Chinese made bicycle or sneakers, you'd be paying a lot more. And these plans are not sitting well with some economists who are warning that this could really do some damage here. Now Moody's have told CNN that Trump's trade policies would kill 675,000 jobs if they were enacted, that they would shrink GDP, they would lift the unemployment rate and they would also make inflation worse.

And that's even if Trump use the new revenue from these tariffs to fund tax cuts. Now, this is not just coming from Moody's. Goldman Sachs warned its clients as well that Trump's tariffs could lift inflation and slow GDP. I talked to an economist from the right leaning Tax Foundation who told me that this is just a bad policy. And it's likely the worst and most damaging part of Trump's economic agenda.

Now, we should note there is a lot of uncertainty here, right? We don't know how much of Trump's trade proposals or just threats, how much of this is bluster or real. We also don't really know how other countries would respond. But there's no reason to think that they would take this line down, especially not China.

And listen, timing is important, right? Tariffs are already high. Inflation is already high. This does seem like a risky time to make them even higher. CORNISH: So how much bigger are these proposals compared to the tariffs that President Biden actually kept on, right, from the Trump era on Chinese goods? Gives us a sense of the scale here.

EGAN: Well, it is telling that those tariffs remain in place. Because, remember, this is a White House that is searching for ways to show that they are attacking inflation. And one way to lower the cost of goods would be to lower some of these tariffs. But that has not happened.

For the large part, these Trump era tariffs, they remain intact, and that's because tariffs have become a bipartisan tool. But Trump does have legitimate gripes here when it comes to China and trade. We hear from Democrats and business leaders who are also concerned about China's alleged intellectual property theft, dumping goods at artificially low prices.

These are very bipartisan concerns. And one expert told me that, listen, trade has become toxic to both parties. And, Audie, there's no reason to think that that's going to change no matter who wins the election November. The question is whether or not tariffs are going to go even higher. And that is certainly what the Trump campaign is signaling.

CORNISH: All right, Matt Egan, thank you.

EGAN: Thanks.

CORNISH: And coming up, RFK, Jr., the most insider outsider seems to be winning over swing voters in key states. We're going to hear from voters in Michigan who say they plan to flip from Biden to Kennedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:49:04]

CORNISH: The presidential election isn't just between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. The threat of an independent candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is actually posed to both candidates and he's in double digits in most national polls.

And I want to hear from you -- I want you to hear directly from a group of swing voters in Pennsylvania because they flipped from Trump in 2016 to Biden in 2020. And so they're very much up for grabs. Four of the six in the group said they'd pick Kennedy over Biden and Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK B., SWING VOTER: Neither of them is a viable candidate. I'd almost just roll the dice with Kennedy and just see what would happen.

JOE C., SWING VOTER: He has a lot of attributes of Robert and John F. Kennedy. So I feel that he would be the best choice out of the five there.

SHARON M., SWING VOTER: I'm kind of really tired of Biden and I'm not going to vote for Trump. So to me, it would be put someone new in there. Let's come up with some new ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:50:03]

CORNISH: Our thanks to Engagious and SAGO for that group.

My panel is back with me. I tend to think of third party candidates as people who have like a movement or policy ideas behind them. Whereas, this is a little bit of like, well, not one of those dudes. So, Seung Min, what have you been learning about what the curiosity is for these guys (ph)?

KIM: Right, right. Well, Friday people story this week, I talked to a lot of voters and a lot of these voters are very disenchanted with both Biden and Trump. So at a minimum, there is a curiosity among voters saying, you know, they don't want to support Trump again, they're unhappy with what President Biden has done in office.

So they at least want to know more about RFK. And I think we're still collecting the data on who this hurts more Biden or Trump, who RFK hurts more in a general election contest. But I do think there is that appeal of the Kennedy name, you know, people don't know a lot of --

CORNISH: We're waiting for the attributes --

KIM: Right, right.

CORNISH: -- of Robert in that.

KIM: Exactly.

CORNISH: That the attribute sounded like the name Kennedy.

KIM: Right, right.

CORNISH: David, I want to ask you, because we know that there was an RFK Jr. campaign staffer who was actually fired because she was caught telling voters that her number one priority was to prevent a Biden victory. Why was this a significant moment?

WEIGEL: Well, it was found by a Democrat, Independent Democrat working on his own, who just doesn't like Kennedy's tried to undermine him and dump the Democratic Party elevated it. Democrats have a playbook. They've used it in a couple of elections, sometimes not successfully, of taking a third party candidate who's not very well defined, and emphasizing all of his right wing views to convince Democrats -- those kinds of voters, really.

People who might -- who voted Biden past --

CORNISH: But they're -- it sounds like --

WEIGEL: -- that come back onboard.

CORNISH: -- they're just did convince that -- WEIGEL: Yes.

CORNISH: -- third party takes from Democrats.

WEIGEL: That not everyone who's voting for Kennedy, or says they would, is going to vote Democratic, but some will. And they convince the soft voter who just doesn't like the way things are going, but it doesn't want Trump back. No, this is actually a way to get Trump back.

That is their entire entire game plan. Everything they're doing this is a list Smith and a couple people with the DNC doing this. All their opposition research at the moment about Kennedy's emphasizing right wing things he has endorsed. Because if you look at -- his paid media so far, including Super Bowl ad, I have totally no content.

CORNISH: Yes.

WEIGEL: They are just that his name is Kennedy. He's Kennedy. He's not Donald Trump and Joe Biden. They want to say, yes and he's very right wing.

CORNISH: And meaning on that third hard (ph) that I think is --

WEIGEL: Yes.

CORNISH: -- the Kennedy family was actually quite upset.

KIM: Very much so.

WEIGEL: And they found their polling that when people hear the Kennedys don't support him, that that alone gets people to move off of him. And that he's very confident that work.

CORNISH: So I want to follow up on something you said though, because Donald Trump has actually I think made some comments on Truth Social about RFK Jr., where he is essentially calling him radical left.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): RFK Jr. is, as you know, the most radical left candidate in the race. He's more so than the Green Party. He's more so than even crooked Joe Biden. If I were a Democrat, I'd vote for RFK Jr. Every single time over Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Melanie, I don't want to turn this into some sort of 3D Chess situation --

ZANONA: yes, right.

CORNISH: -- like Trump is saying this and they're saying that. So when you hear that, what comes to mind?

ZANONA: Well, listen, when you talk to Trump allies and Trump's campaign, they're not so sure that this is a clear cut spoiler for Biden. They're a little skeptical, a little worried.

CORNISH: Yes. Because there's a big anti-vax contention, right?

ZANONA: Right, anti-vax.

CORNISH: That's how we came up.

ZANONA: He said some things that appeal more to them, the MAGA base, he's been sympathetic to January 6 defenders and rioters. And so, they're not entirely sure, and it is a risk to try to elevate him and try to -- for Trump anyway. But you see Trump can't always help himself when he says he would be good. He -- in his Truth Social posts, he said he would be good for the MAGA movement, and that he loves that he's running.

So Trump clearly feels like this is potentially a win for him. But we haven't just seen evidence just yet that Republicans are taking this as serious of a threat as the Democratic Party is.

CORNISH: And we know because they'd spend money, right? I mean, is that how we think about it?

WEIGEL: Yes. And their overall theory is that this -- look, Donald Trump has never gotten more than 50 percent of the vote, that the double haters that we heard a lot about in 2016, we hear more about now that if there is a --

CORNISH: Call them negative partisan. But doubled aiders is catching on.

WEIGEL: That's true. That those voters -- any vote that's not for Biden is great. It's off the board. That is their overall theory. And they're being kind of cautious about this. They're trying to elevate in lower ways, more obvious left wing threats to Biden, like Cornel West, like Jill Stein, emphasizing -- from Jill Stein's perspective, and I talked to her about this, that she wants to talk about how Joe Biden is drilling more than Donald Trump did, or allowing more, I should say, not personally, allowing more drilling.

CORNISH: But climate change the --

WEIGEL: The more -- yes.

CORNISH: -- the Gaza, there's a number of sort of soft spots.

WEIGEL: They're more confident in elevating those voices and saying, hey, if you're a left wing Democrat in Madison, or in Ann Arbor, please pay attention to Cornel West and Jill Stein, because that worked for them in 2016. Kennedy is more of an X factor.

CORNISH: All right. Well, thank you to the group for talking with me today. Had a lot of fun. I appreciate it.

And if you'd like talking about politics, I do too. Thanks for joining INSIDE POLITICS. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts after the break. Before you go, I just want to invite you to listen to my podcast, "The Assignment." We're going to be talking this weekend with a movie director Alex Garland about his new film, "The Civil War" which is about partisanship, the threat of U.S. divisions.

[12:55:05]

You can get new episodes of the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks so much.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)