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Pro-Palestinian Protests Spread Across College Campuses; Now: Future Of Emergency Abortion Care In Front Of Supreme Court; Major Protests Outside Supreme Court During Abortion Arguments; Supreme Court Hears Case About Emergency Abortion Care; Abortion Rights On The Ballot In Key Swing States; Biden Signs $95B Bill With Critical Aid For Ukraine, Israel; Trump Risks Running Afoul Of Gag Order In New Interview; Trump Hush Money Trial Resumes Tomorrow Morning. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired April 24, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She had set a midnight deadline last night to clear out or reach an agreement to clear out the encampments. Otherwise, they would have to find alternative means to clear out the encampments. They seem to make good progress. And so now that deadline has been pushed back another 48 hours.

But previously, Wolf, she sent in the NYPD to clear out these encampments, drawing a lot of criticism from students and professors. We don't know what those alternative ways to clear out the encampment that she mentioned, could be once we hit that 48-hour mark.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We'll stay in close touch with you Omar Jimenez in New York for us. Omar, thank you very, very much. And to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us. Here in the CNN Newsroom, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. I'll be back later tonight 6 p.m. eastern in the Situation Room. Stay with CNN. Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash. We start at the Supreme Court where the justices appear deeply divided over one of the biggest abortion cases since Roe vs. Wade was overturned. The issue is whether an Idaho abortion ban prevents doctors from performing abortions for women who are having a medical emergency that may not be life threatening but is a threat to her health.

CNN's Paula Reid and Meg Tirrell are here to break it down. Paula, I'm going to start with you. Give us sort of a synopsis of what we have heard of isn't just the arguments, but maybe more importantly the kinds of questions the justices are asking.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So, this case specifically focused on the state of Idaho. There's an abortion ban there and when it comes to emergency medical treatment. For pregnant women, there is an exception. Abortions can be performed if a woman's life is at risk. The Biden administration sued the state of Idaho saying, wait a second, it shouldn't get that far. If you need to perform this procedure to stabilize someone that should be sufficient under federal law, which is how we heard -- well, we found ourselves today at the Supreme Court.

And from what we heard, I think the most interesting takeaway is that the votes of Chief Justice John Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett seem to be up for grabs. And that's a little bit of a surprise. I think a lot of folks might think, well, of course, they're going to side with Idaho. But in fact, based on the question that we heard today, both of them seemed open. And that's critical because they would of course, be key swing votes here.

BASH: Right. And this -- the key here is, as I mentioned at the open, this is the most significant case that is dealing with the ramifications of what this very core did a few years ago, which is the Dobbs' decision overturning Roe vs. Wade.

And the very real issue that many medical providers are having in a lot of these red states where they're very strict abortion bans on where they believe the law is and what they can do, and frankly, not get sued.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Or lose their medical license or an Idaho faced two to five years in prison if they violate the state ban. And so, what we're hearing is that this has a couple different effects. One, Dr. Salas and patients tell us, we've been to Idaho to talk to folks there about this. They tell us they're afraid to be pregnant in the state of Idaho. Because if you have a situation like this, where you have to wait until you're at death's door, oftentimes that means that doctors will be afraid to provide that treatment.

And what we hear is that now they're counseling patients that they need insurance to be flown out of state to be able to get that kind of care rather than the doctors putting themselves at risk by providing it within that state. And we actually heard some numbers about this. They are small numbers, but they show that there's been an increase as a result of this entire situation.

Last year, the largest hospital system in Idaho said that they had to transfer one patient out of state because of this kind of situation. This year, and just the first few months of the year since this EMTALA ban essentially was lifted in the full ban went into effect in Idaho. There's been six patients transferred out of state. They say, you annualized, that that's 20 patients. It's a rare situation that this happens, obviously from these numbers but it obviously affects people.

BASH: And Paula, you made the point about Amy Coney Barrett and the Chief Justice John Roberts, asking a lot of questions that make it clear that they are open to siding, perhaps with the liberals on the bench. And just zeroing in on Amy Coney Barrett, she was asking, what happens if a doctor quote, reached the conclusion in good faith that an abortion was medically necessary, but prosecutors disagreed? Would they be prosecuted under the Idaho law? Asking questions like that which, you know, sort of goes to the very heart of why this is such an issue, obviously, first and foremost policy wise, but also politically across the country. Because these are questions being asked in courts of law in legislatures that have to do mostly with how a doctor and a patient view in this case, a very dire situation that doesn't necessarily just mean, will I save the life of a mother. But will I save the mother's ability to have children again if she wants to?

[12:05:00]

REID: Yeah, exactly. And that specific hypothetical was brought up by another justice. And you really hit one of the key exchanges here about the fact that Idaho is suggesting that really doctors judgment may be subject to the judgment of a prosecutor that's what Amy Coney Barrett was getting out there.

And so often we listen to Supreme Court arguments, and we think about everything, you know, along this liberal conservative framework, but here it was actually the ladies of the court. All the women that three liberal justices joined by Amy Coney Barrett, who dominated the first half and really grilled the lawyer who is representing Idaho, Josh Turner.

This was his first argument before the Supreme Court. And at times, it did show. He got some pretty tough questions, some hypotheticals questions like that. But it does appear that it's possible the government might prevail here. And we know that whatever is decided here could not only have implications for women who need this service, but also potentially for the election.

BASH: That is so interesting. That point you made about all of the women, asking specific questions. I mean, whether or not there are conservatives or liberals talk about representation mattering. Thanks so much for that explanation to both of you.

Right now, at the Supreme Court, there are really big protests happening as all of this is playing out. CNN's Gabe Cohen is there in the thick of it. Gabe, what's going on?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Dana, you can see behind me a speaker talking to this crowd of demonstrators for abortion rights. This has been a large crowd over the past couple of hours that they've been listening to some of these speakers. And we've seen some tense moments because on the other side of those barricades is an anti- abortion, a group of activists who are protesting.

As you probably can't really tell, there's really no crowd outside there. It's only a handful of people. But we -- just a few minutes ago, listen to a group of anti-abortion activists who were really trolling the speakers here. They were yelling back and forth. There was a lot of clashing. We've seen a couple of incidents of that over the past couple of hours here.

But Dana, a lot of emotions as we're hearing from people. I spoke with a doctor from Idaho. When we talked about, she says she used to provide abortion care. But over the past couple of years with this restrictive law, it's really not possible.

And she's concerned with the number of patients who are fleeing the state of Idaho to get care, as well as other states with these restrictive laws, and concerns about those patients who have these medical emergencies and are struggling to get the abortion care they need.

BASH: Gabe, thank you so much for that reporting. If you can still hear me. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. I want to come back into the studio and bring in my great political panel CNN's MJ Lee, CNN's David Chalian and Nia-Malika Henderson of CNN and Bloomberg. Wow, there's a lot going on this morning.

And I just want to start where we began the program, which is obviously the abortion issue what is happening at the court. And David Chalian, talk about how you see that playing. I'm not asking you for a crystal ball because that doesn't exist. But the here and the now how that plays into the existing strategy inside the Biden campaign on this issue.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Just look at the campaign schedule this week alone in the last few days from the vice president and the president. Vice President Harris was in battleground Wisconsin, talking about abortion rights. On Monday, President Biden was in Florida, trying to see if he can make it a battleground by talking about abortion rights, down there in Tampa yesterday.

And the entire strategy here is, this is -- from the Democratic side is, this is an issue they have watched over the last two years, work to their political benefit. In special elections that have happened in very red states like Kansas or in battleground states, or congressional districts. Time and again, when this issue was on the ballot, it draws support to a coalition of abortion rights supporters that the Biden team believes they can put to their effort of success, their hopes -- hope for success this fall.

I would just say, obviously, voters this fall are going to have a whole constellation of issues that they're going to vote on. This is not going to be the only issue. But the Biden team sees this as a critical component to putting their coalition together.

BASH: And MJ, let's listen to a little bit of President Biden on this issue on the trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Millions of women are enduring unbearable pain and cruelty because of Donald Trump. Sadly, is pain and cruelty that millions of women in Florida now face. It's not inevitable. We can stop it. When you vote, we can stop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: If you didn't hear that, Florida. That's what he was talking about because that's where he was yesterday, which is certainly not on the Biden campaigns plan before floor at least not in an earnest way before Florida implemented or is set to implement a very restrictive six-week abortion ban.

[12:10:00]

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And you know, it's key I think that he is using language like cruelty, like pain. You know, we've seen the Biden campaign, the White House too really trying to use sort of these anecdotes and stories from women, their families in a whole number of different states who have had problems getting access to the health care that they need.

And one step further than that is to say, you know, here are the stories, here are the ways in which families are being affected. And by the way this is all because of Donald Trump's first presidency. And what's more. This is more of what we will see if Donald Trump gets a second term. If Republicans have any say in any of these matters.

And I think they are betting on the fact that enough people will sort of understand when they hear these stories, when they see these kinds of pictures that that is not sort of the America that they want for themselves, for their families, their friends. That is sort of the political calculation that they're making.

BASH: Let's look at the national landscape Nia, about what abortion looks like in a lot of the states, including and especially just on the raw politics of this, the expected swing states or battleground states. Alabama (Ph) completely banned with very limited exceptions. You see all of these dates. Arizona is really the key one here, which we've talked a lot about in recent weeks.

And then the six-week to 12-week bands, Florida, Georgia, those are two critical battleground states. And then if you look ahead to North Carolina as well -- and so, you know, let's be real here, the president of the United States is kind of limited in what he can do on putting Roe back in place without Congress and everything else.

But what the Biden campaign and Democrats can do is rally enthusiasm, particularly in the states that matter the most. And on that note, you of course have ballot proposals in a lot of these states. Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Maryland, and it goes on and on. The key ones from a presidential perspective are Arizona, Florida, Nevada.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, POLITICS & POLICY COLUMNIST, BLOOMBERG & CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. Listen, Bloomberg is going to pull out today of swing states and it shows that for half of the voters in the states, abortion is a very, very important issue to their vote. In Arizona, you look at independent voters. According to our poll, they trust Biden on these issues by 12 points over Trump. In suburban women trust Biden over Trump by 25 points.

So that is the sort of constellation of voters that they are looking at energizing. As you said, there's obviously going to be a ballot initiative on the ballot there that Democrats are pushing Republicans or him beating (Ph). I think today to figure out what kind of ballot initiative they can put on the roster in November as well.

BASH: We're going to talk later in the show about the war antisemitism that is not just popping up but exploding on some campuses. But right here, I want to talk about the war politics of what continues to concern the Biden campaign, which is maybe another star in that constellation that you talked about of issues that the -- both campaigns are dealing with and in this case, the Biden campaign.

And that is how the war in the Middle East, particularly Israel prosecuting its retaliation in Gaza, is affecting voters in the Biden coalition. Just look at the Harvard IOP Youth Survey that was came out last month. The economy, obviously, is number one, immigration and so on and so forth. Interestingly, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is only 2 percent. What does that tell you, David?

CHALIAN: Well, the Biden team was very pleased to see what that was not ranking as high as perhaps news coverage --

BASH: And I should say -- forgive me. But I should also add that approval of the way Biden is handling the Israel-Hamas war among young people is only 18 percent.

CHALIAN: Yes. And I was just about to say so. In salience is an important issue among these voters in this poll, you see, it's low down there. But we are seeing his numbers actually getting worse on this issue. I mean, this is now starting to begin immigration territory for him as an issue. It's one of his worst performing issues, his handling of the Israel-Hamas war, and especially within his own coalition.

So again, when you're dealing with such a close presidential race. As this one is supposed to be, every piece of that coalition is as important as the other. And so, as an animating issue for some voters inside that democratic coalition, young voters what have you, this is really important and Biden's not performing well with it.

BASH: And MJ, you have some brand-new reporting on what the Biden campaign is and is not doing with regard to these protests.

[12:15:00]

LEE: Yeah. You know, for starters, the president is going to be in New York City at the end of the week, but he's not going to be making a visit to Colombia, for example, to see for himself. And hear for himself, some of these impassioned voices --

(CROSSTALK)

LEE: I don't -- I don't think that the campaign right now sees an upside. I mean first of all, the logistics of having the president go into such a messy situation. I think from a security standpoint, not to mention the political standpoint, it would just be very, very challenging.

And on the whole, when I've spoken to White House officials and campaign officials about this very issue in recent weeks, they have been incredibly consistent in saying, we plan on staying the course. There are not some big political meetings that are happening inside the White House, or in Wilmington HQ, where advisors are trying to come up with some brand new, different strategy to deal with the Gaza issue.

They're sensitive to it. They knew that it is a challenge, but they don't believe that this is something where they need to have a different tact to deal with it. They don't see this as a politically sort of existential problem right now.

CHALIAN: We don't know where it's going to be.

BASH: Yeah, we don't.

CHALIAN: On the fall on the ground and that will dictate a lot.

HENDERSON: And I mean, you have seen the president move on this, right. He's been much more vocal in terms of his criticism of Netanyahu, for instance, and we'll see how this plays out. He's going to Morehouse to give a commencement address on next month. That coalition of voters important to a state like Georgia, it's sort of, you know, upper educated black voters who could be critical in a state like Georgia.

I am certain that there are going to be protests there. There's already a protest even before he gets there with people wanting them to rescind the invitation, more houses that they don't plan to do that, but I'm sure it will be a scene.

BASH: And he's trying to sort of walk that line. He put out a strong statement over the weekend about antisemitism that is growing. And then the next day, put out a statement supporting the idea of pro- Palestinian protests. And you know, that's a line that is not going to please pretty much anybody which is very, very difficult to do.

Thank you so much. Appreciate. I should also add that the House speaker is going to go to Colombia today, which is going to open up another point of political attack. Coming up next. He just can help himself. Did Donald Trump violate his gag order, at the same time a judge is considering whether to punish him for it. We'll talk about that next.

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[12:20:00]

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BASH: Moments ago, at the White House President Biden signed a long- awaited aid package for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan into law. Two thirds of the $95 billion package is for Ukraine. And it comes at a pivotal moment in that country's fight for its survival. CNN's Kayla Tausche joins me live now from the White House. Kayla?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, this was a moment literally months in the making President Biden saying this morning from the White House that the first tranche of that aid to Ukraine would be available or would be sent from the U.S. within hours. And the Pentagon then detailing exactly what is in that initial tranche that the U.S. is going to be sending. It will include munitions of varying sizes, various rounds of artillery, high mobility artillery rocket systems, commonly known as high Mars as well as tactical vehicles, and other anti-armor systems. But in those remarks, Biden was chiding Congress for how long it took to get this package passed.

The administration first notified Congress of its request for more funding -- for conflicts all across hotspots around the world in late October. So, it took more than six months to get it across the finish line. But Biden did praise some Republican leaders by name, namely House Speaker Mike Johnson, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and said that bipartisan cooperation is sending a strong message to both America's allies around the world and its adversaries. Here's President Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BIDEN: All standing together against this brutal dictator. Putin attacks a NATO ally like he's attacking Ukraine today. We'd have no choice, but to come to their aid. America stands with our friends. We stand up against dictators. We bow to no one, to no one. Certainly not Vladimir Putin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: So, that is President Biden issuing essentially a missive from -- the whole NATO saying that they will not bow down to Vladimir Putin. But Dana, what's interesting is that the administration publicly had said that Ukraine would be running out of weaponry and equipment by the end of December, and it still took nearly five months to get this package passed. And so, there are active questions about when not if, but when Ukraine needs more. How long it will take then. Dana?

BASH: Thank you so much Kayla for that reporting. And now, he simply cannot stop or maybe it's just the strategy. Donald Trump will not relent in how he breaks a gag order imposed on him by the judge overseeing his Manhattan hush money trial.

Just last night, as the judge weighs whether or how to punish the former president for 10 instances. The prosecution claims he flaunted restrictions on what he can say, Trump seems to have just ignored the rules again.

Here's what he said about a witness Michael Cohen, in an interview with CNN affiliate WPDI.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michael Cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no credibility whatsoever. He was a lawyer, and he rely on your lawyers.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [12:25:00]

BASH: Joining me now CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero and CNN correspondent Kara Scannell who has been CNN eyes and ears. And then some inside the courtroom covering this trial. Kara, I do want to start with you on this gag order. What is the expectation? What are you hearing from your sources in the court? Any sense of -- I mean, we don't know how it's going to come down, but even the when?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're waiting for the judge to issue this decision. Yesterday after the hearing, he said he would reserve decision on this. You know, but it came after what was a times contentious hearing with the judge becoming frustrated with Donald Trump's legal teams, trying to not responding to his questions as he put it, because prosecutors have said that Trump has violated this gag order at least 10 times.

They have it -- the interview that you just played a clip of Trump actually gave yesterday morning on his way to court before this hearing took place. But it echoes some of the other statements that prosecutors have said are problematic. So, the judge was pressing Trump's attorneys in court about, you know, what was he responding to?

Because their argument has been that Trump is a candidate. He should be able to respond to political attacks. They were saying statements from Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels were political. And the judge just kept pressing, saying, what was political about this? What is he responding to here?

And at one point, you know, one of the other arguments that they made is that he was -- Trump's lawyers said that he was just reposting what other people were posting, but the judge was challenging that too. And at one point, he was frustrated saying -- you know, Trump's lawyers saying, trying to argue again, you know, but your honor.

And then the judge saying, I was not done. You're not giving me anything to hang my hat on to say, yeah, you're right, the reposts. That was ambiguous. So, judge just becoming frustrated and saying that he -- that Trump's attorney was losing credibility because he was not able to answer the judges' questions.

BASH: And Carrie, there -- the court is not in session today on this particular case. But we are now in the middle of the David Pecker testimony. We heard it most of the day, not all day. Yesterday, we expected to resume tomorrow. The court is releasing the actual transcripts. And part of what I want to read from the testimony that they released last night is David Pecker talking about Trump's involvement specifically.

And he said, I would describe Mr. Trump is very knowledgeable. I would describe him as a very -- as very detail oriented. I would describe him as an almost as a micromanager from what I saw that he looked at every all aspects of whatever the issue was. From a lawyer's perspective, why is that such important testimony?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's important because one of the main things that the prosecutors have to prove in this case is that the former president was knowledgeable about the fraud that is alleged to have taken place. And so, this general characterization of the former president as being a micromanager, being involved in the details of things sort of goes along that path of him having knowledge of the fraud that that the prosecutors say, takes place.

But you know, the other aspect of Mr. Pecker's testimony is that it is not generally, it is not illegal to do sleazy things to influence an election in the way of trying to win it. And I think the big challenge for the prosecutors in this case is distinguishing between the fraud and the actual way to affect the election in an illegal way that is different than just sort of unsavory conduct.

BASH: Yeah. They're clearly -- the prosecution is clearly with Pecker trying to lay the groundwork of Donald Trump being somebody who would never allow for alleged fraudulent documents to be -- you know, to go forward without him knowing about it.

CORDERO: Right.

BASH: And that's the big part of this. Thank you. Sorry, it's short. We're going to have a lot more to talk about in the next few weeks. Thank you so much, Kara, as well. Up next. The Biden White House is staying far away from Trump's legal problems. But what about the Biden reelection campaign? Stay tuned.

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