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Hunter Biden Found Guilty On All Counts In Gun Case; Hunter Biden Jurors Speaks To CNN. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: But there is no --

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: I want you to --

LISA LERER, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: And I think --

RAJU: Yes, go ahead, Lisa.

LERER: -- that striking shows you even though it's been formally retracted, I guess, is that these are complicated politics for them. First of all, it's tapping into an issue that a lot of families in America have dealt with, which is addiction.

GANGEL: Including Trump's family.

LERER: -- including Trump's family.

GANGEL: Right.

LERER: The testimony was really emotional and, you know, you had Hunter Biden's daughter up there tearing up and crying and this shows a family that was in a lot of pain and for the reasons you're pointing out, that they can't get crosswise with the gun rights community. That's a big part of the president -- former President Trump's base.

So this is not a clean political hit for them. And I think what that sort of -- with the little machinations over that line, that's what that's telling, saying, yes.

RAJU: I want you to listen to what Trump actually said last week when he was asked by Sean Hannity about Hunter Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel very badly for them in terms of the addiction part of what they have right now, because I understand the addiction world and I've also, not only a brother, I've lost a lot of friends to addiction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But then they come out and say Biden crime family. ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right. You see that inconsistency with the messaging there. But I do think what we're all touching on is something important here. I mean those testimonies in this trial, you know, you're talking about an issue that many Americans are dealing with or know somebody, you know, dealing with.

I mean, this is one of the, you know, top deadly epidemics in the country right now as well. When you talk about addiction, particularly with opioid epidemic, some of the jurors, you know, in this trial also said that they knew -- at least knew somebody dealing with this, too. I would think that that thinking is going into some of the hesitation here when you're talking about the messaging from Republicans.

But again, you know, you already have some Trump allies already seizing on this case to attack the president. So I'm interested to see whether or not they develop a (INAUDIBLE) message.

RAJU: Kayla, how much thinking discussion is there among Democrats to try to make sure that the public sees the Trump guilty verdict as different than the Hunter Biden guilty verdict? Of course, Hunter Biden is a private citizen. He's not the president of the United States. We have a former president who has been convicted on 34 counts.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

RAJU: But is there a concern that this could all get conflated? Oh, they all are a bunch of dirty politicians.

TAUSCHE: Well, the problem is the second that the Biden campaign or the Biden administration starts weighing in on the facts of the Hunter Biden case, then they could be accused of doing what Kate was mentioning earlier. They don't want to be seen as putting their thumb on the scale or saying, well, this is different because of this.

But it is very clear that in the way the Biden campaign is talking about and messaging the Trump conviction, that conviction specifically relates to actions that took place during and immediately following the presidency. And that is why they feel that that is relevant. And they feel that that is ground to say that Donald Trump, therefore, is unfit to serve in that office again.

But it's challenging for them to say the reason why this case is different, because then they have to go into the facts of that case to try to explain that. But where Republicans political attacks are concerned as well, you know, there's no doubt that they're going to try to use this for their advantage politically. But we have a case study from a few years ago where there was a Biden voicemail to his son, Hunter, that was obtained and released where he was very emotional.

And he was saying, buddy, I don't know how to help you.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

TAUSCHE: And when that was released, Republicans were saying, look, this family has so much drama and has so much chaos. But there were a lot of people who were very sympathetic and said, this is just a dad trying to help his son.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

RAJU: Yes, go ahead.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes, absolutely. And I will say, you know, and Zolan mentioned this earlier, but, you know, in the debate in 2020, I will tell you the data inside the Biden campaign, the focus groups, the polling after the debate where Joe Biden defended Hunter and said, I love my son, that was the moment that people remember.

That was the moment that popped from that debate, that and the Proud Boys stand back and stand by moment. You know, that was what people remembered and absorbed. And so, you know, what people see here as the Republicans try to make this or, you know, as the Trump campaign tries to make this a line of attack, you know, they see a father who loves his son.

People can relate to that. Kayla's absolutely right. That voicemail, you know, there was a lot of blowback around that voicemail where people said this is just a father who loves his son. And that's a really powerful message, especially at a time where it feels like the campaign is devoid of humanity across the board.

RAJU: Yes. I do want to get to CNN's Paula Reid, who is outside the courthouse. Paula, what are you hearing from the outside the courthouse?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, Manu, our colleague, Hannah Rabinowitz, one of our producers here on the ground, spoke with several of the jurors on the Hunter Biden case. And we're getting some really interesting information about what happened behind the scenes.

Now, one of the jurors told Hannah that they believed that this case, quote, "seemed like a waste of taxpayer money." But they told her that they believe they had no choice to convict him because of the way the jury instructions were written.

Now, one of these jurors told Hannah that when they went back to begin their deliberations yesterday, they did a vote, which is usually what you do when you go back to the jury room, right? You take a poll, how are people feeling. And at that time, this juror says it was, quote, "6-6." So the jury was divided on whether to convict.

[12:35:06]

Then this juror told Hannah that when they came back this morning, it was 11 to 1. And the other jurors were able to focus on that one holdout and convince them that prosecutors had proven the knowingly element of the crime. Remember, that was the big challenge for prosecutors, to prove that Hunter Biden was aware, that he knowingly lied when he filled out that form, and that he understood that he was either using or addicted to drugs when he owned this firearm. But this is significant, that there was some concern by at least a few jurors about the nature of this case. Now, I want to say the juror who gave us the count, the voting information behind the scenes, he would not reveal anything about his politics. But he did express some support to the Bidens in terms of the larger issue of addiction.

The other jurors did not want to talk about what happened in deliberations. But this is significant because it helps to tell the story of how this jury came to this unanimous verdict to convict the president's son in this case.

RAJU: That is so fascinating. 6-6 initially yesterday about whether to convict. 11-1 this morning, ultimately 12-0. I'm guilty on all counts. That's great reporting for all in our team. Thanks for that.

And we have this statement from Hunter Biden that just came in. He says, "I am more grateful today for the love and support I experienced this week from Melissa, my family, my friends, and my community than I am disappointed by the outcome. Recovery is possible by the grace of God, and I am blessed to experience that gift one day at a time."

All right. We have a lot more to dissect in the next segment, so stay with us. We have more on the breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:25]

RAJU: I want to bring in a juror on the Hunter Biden trial. He served as juror number 10. We are not identifying the juror for his own safety. Juror number 10, this is Manu Raju. Can you hear me?

JUROR 10, JUROR IN HUNTER BIDEN CASE: Yes.

RAJU: OK, great. Thanks for joining us today. Take us inside the room. From what we understand from our reporting, from our colleagues is that the jury was not 100 percent on board behind the idea of conviction yesterday and then ultimately came to the unanimous decision that Hunter Biden was guilty on all three counts. What happened behind the room and what ultimately convinced the jury to convict?

JUROR 10: OK. So, yesterday when the case was handed over to us, we went to the deliberating room. We weren't there that long because it was getting late in the evening. So we just decided, OK, the first thing we're going to do is let's vote now. See how the count was. So we voted and it was six to six.

Now, I don't believe that any of them were trying to change their minds or we weren't trying to change anybody's mind. It's just the fact that I think they said no because they wanted more information, they wanted to talk more about the case. So they don't want to jump to conclusions right away and say, yes, he was guilty. So --

RAJU: So and then --

JUROR 10: -- I believe that's why.

RAJU: And then this morning you guys came back in and it was no longer six to six. Is that right?

JUROR 10: That's correct. Yes.

RAJU: And talk to me about how that played out.

JUROR 10: Just -- OK. So we took each count and we went over the evidence for each count. And once our foreman had the last whiteboard and we decided, OK, let's go through each count. So and then we went around the table. And on the first count, we all said we agreed for number one. We agreed for number two and we agreed for number three. But number four was a holdout, OK?

So then we talked about a little bit longer about the question on the first indictment. So then we talked a little bit about it and then we said, OK, let's go back to that. Now let's go to the second.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Motion.

JUROR 10: Motion, yes, or the second conviction, what he was going to be convicted for. So we went to the second one and that came back anonymous. We all -- everybody agreed.

RAJU: Was there any indication why that juror changed to convict? What was the reason?

JUROR 10: No, no, no. We never got -- we're getting ahead. We skipped that one. There's three charges against him. So now we're working on the second charge. So we skipped the first charge because somebody was not totally convinced on the fourth question. So we moved on to the second indictment.

[12:45:01]

Once we went over the second indictment, it was unanimous and we all agreed. Then we moved on to the third. And once we started going over the third, there was also four questions on that. So we had to be unanimous on all four questions. And that was unanimous, the result. Everybody voted to agree to guilty.

RAJU: I wonder, this is obviously a case that involved addiction. There were a lot of stories, sad stories, frankly, about the issue of addiction, Hunter Biden's drug use. How much did that impact the jury? As you guys were processing the evidence and we hear -- we learned about his addiction use of crack cocaine. How did that play in the jury room?

JUROR 10: I'll tell you, it was -- I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself like -- it was very sad that he was being convicted of these crimes, but that his life had turned out the way it did. So --

RAJU: So did -- was there a lot of discussion about that? Or did the -- was it really just looking at what the prosecution and the defense laid out?

JUROR 10: There wasn't a lot of discussion about his lifestyle. It was just the evidence that we were listening to. We didn't discuss a lot about Hunter's lifestyle. And like I said, it was very sad. And when Hallie testified, I mean, that was, for me, that was a very sad time because I did not know that Hallie also got addicted to crack. So --

RAJU: And it sounds --

JUROR 10: -- I really felt sorry for that.

RAJU: Yes, and it sounds like from what you're saying is that you were in the belief that he was guilty all along. You were not in the camp initially who did not think he was. You know, thought he should be acquitted. You thought he was guilty. And correct me if I'm wrong, but what convinced you as you were assessing the evidence that he was guilty?

JUROR 10: The majority of the questions was he -- when he filled out that form at the gun shop, OK, and he listed, no, he was not an addict. When it said, are you an unlawful addiction to drugs or are you addicted to drugs? When I first read the first one and hearing all the evidence, I believed that he was and he did knowingly buy the gun, knowing that he was a drug addict --

RAJU: I do want to --

JUROR 10: -- and knowing that he was addicted.

RAJU: I do want to ask you just one quick question. Was there -- there's a lot of talk about the jurors knowing, everybody knowing a Biden in Delaware. There's a lot of discussion about that going in. Did anybody have a personal connection to Joe Biden and the Biden family? Did that play into the discussion at all?

JUROR 10: Not at all. The family was not at all.

RAJU: OK.

JUROR 10: We didn't discuss, we didn't use Jill, we didn't use President Biden. Like, I was telling someone earlier, like, President Biden never really even came in to play for me because his name was only brought up once during the trial. And that's when it kind of sunk in a little bit, oh, wow, this is the sitting president's son who's on trial.

And so that was, you know, that was kind of hard to know, OK, what the trial is about now. But you kind of put that out of your mind. And after that -- after it was brought up again, I did put it out of my mind. I never really --

RAJU: Yes.

JUROR 10: -- put the two together.

RAJU: Juror 10, stand by for a second. I want to bring in my colleague, Paula Reid, who has been covering this trial from start to finish. Paula, I know you have a question for Juror 10.

[12:50:03]

REID: Yes, thank you so much for joining us. This is so important to hear exactly how you guys reached this verdict. But I want to get your take on Naomi Biden's testimony. What is your assessment of the defense's decision to put her on the stand? How did that impact your decision?

JUROR 10: It did not impact our decision that much. I felt bad that they put Naomi on trial as witness. I think that was probably a strategy that should not have been done. No daughter should ever have to testify against her dad. So --

REID: Do you think that Hunter Biden should go to jail after this verdict?

JUROR 10: Well, I was talking earlier and I'm deliberating, we were not thinking of the sentencing. And I really don't think that Hunter belongs in jail. If you look at this case, and you realize that when Hallie dumped that, the gun in the trash can, and it was retrieved, and Hunter Biden did not want to press charges because he was the victim of a theft of the firearm. He did not want to press any charges against Hallie.

And another thing that I also thought was they asked him, did you want your gun back? And he said, no, he did not want the gun back. When he said he did not want that gun back, and that gun sat in evidence for almost five years, I think that may have been what led to his downfall.

Had he taken possession of that gun, I don't know if we would even have a trial. Because, you know, he may have sold the gun, got rid of the gun, sold it back to a gun shop or whatever. And, you know, it wasn't -- like it was sitting in evidence. I just think that -- I believe that that means it was sitting in evidence and somebody got ahold of it and say, hey, let's check this out a little bit more and see exactly how he obtained that gun.

RAJU: Juror 10, it's Manu Raju again. Would you have wanted to hear from Hunter Biden himself? Do you wish he testified or did that make any difference as you're weighing conviction?

JUROR 10: No, I didn't want to hear from Hunter. And I think sitting through the whole trial, I was thinking he's better off not testifying because I don't know what his state of mind was. So, yes, I didn't think it would be a good idea for him to testify in his own defense.

RAJU: Just to take us back into the room, when I went from 6-6 yesterday to unanimous today, what was the mood like among the jurors? Did it get contentious at all? Were people pretty amicable at all? You said that politics did not play a role in your assessment. Did you sense that it played a role in any of the other jurors' assessments?

JUROR 10: No, absolutely. And I think that was unanimous, too. There was nothing. Nobody -- no politics came into play and politics was not even spoken about. The first family was not even spoken about. It was all about Hunter. It was.

There was more talk about Hunter, Naomi. Everybody felt really bad for Naomi. I think that's one of the one things that most of the jurors felt sorry for, was Naomi testifying against her father. Or, you know, the defense putting her on the stand. I think that was a bad mistake for them to put her on the stand.

RAJU: Wow. It sounds -- and Paula, I think you have a question also for Juror 10.

[12:55:03]

REID: Yes. Juror, what do you think of this case overall? I mean, do you think that this was a legitimate use of taxpayer resources to bring this case?

JUROR 10: Yes, I do believe it. Once they found out that, you know, Hunter bought a gun and did he buy it legally? Was he an addict? Was he addicted to crack when he purchased it? And that was the biggest factor in this whole case. And that's what the whole case was about. And so, all 12 jurors did agree that, yes, he knowingly bought a gun when he was an addict or he was addicted to drugs.

RAJU: Well, Juror 10, we thank you for your service. Thank you for sharing the insights about what was happening behind closed doors. We really, really appreciate your time today and joining us.

JUROR 10: No problem.

RAJU: I want to bring Paula Reed back into this discussion. Paula, that was a really fascinating take behind the scenes about how they got to a conviction, what was happening as they assessed. He said politics didn't play a role in this and that you believe that the defense made some mistakes in their strategy.

REID: Yes, and it sounds like one of the biggest mistakes that they made was potentially calling Hunter Biden's daughter, Naomi. Well, that juror said that it didn't really factor into his decision or the deliberations. It obviously was a very difficult thing for her, but it gave prosecutors an opportunity to seize on something that she said specifically when she returned her father's car to him on October 19th.

She testified that she didn't see any evidence of drugs. Surely something that's on its face on direct examination will seem to help her father. But prosecutors connected that to Hallie Biden's testimony about how she found the gun alongside drugs and drug paraphernalia on October 23rd. And that wound up being something that they really used to their advantage.

But having this juror, Manu, a credit to our entire team here on the ground in Wilmington, Delaware, for finding this person and getting them to share with the American people exactly how they came to this historic decision.

RAJU: Yes. Really, really interesting. Fascinating. Paul Reid, thanks for that and for joining me in that interview with the juror.

We're back here in the room. Jamie, I know you had some observations about that.

GANGEL: I think that's one of the most fascinating interviews that we've heard because we're finally hearing from a juror about one of these cases. You see just how thoughtful the jury was, how they had the discussion, how they started out six to six then it changed. So you see them at work.

I think one of the most interesting things that juror number 10 said was that when Hunter filled out the form, I believe he did knowing when he bought the gun that he was addicted. That's a paraphrase. I didn't get it. But it goes to common sense. They heard all of this and that goes to common sense.

The other thing is, this was a federal case, but it was in Delaware. And everyone in Delaware knows the Bidens. And you even heard him refer to the first lady at one point as Jill. And while he said that it -- the Bidens, that politics didn't -- he said no politics came into play, but everyone felt really bad about Naomi.

And he also said, I didn't know that Hallie got addicted to crack. You do see, I think, the Delaware impact --

RAJU: Yes.

GANGEL: -- of this jury.

RAJU: But he --

GANGEL: They know this family. They know these people.

RAJU: But I'm glad you brought that up because he said that the president didn't kind of went out of his mind. He thought about him once when he was mentioned and didn't think about Joe Biden again.

LERER: Yes, it's really interesting. If a juror is saying that, you have to wonder if voters will connect this case to the president or they will see these things as separate. I mean, certainly, Republicans were hoping to be able to make that tie. This is a lot harder for them.

You know, most jurors or -- most voters are concerned with sort of everyday life, right? They're not like super engaged in the news and following every sort of twist and turn of this trial. They have to pay their bills and get their kids to school. So if that link is not super clear coming out of this case, you wonder if they will infer that on their own.

RAJU: Do you think this is going to become an issue in the campaign?

KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, we really have to see. Like we've been mentioning, I mean, I think there will be some Trump allies that continue to sort of seize on this. But I thought it was interesting that juror also reflected some of the empathy that we've been describing here. He was saying that it was something to watch the testimony of Naomi as well and the other testimonies in this case as well.

So that's the question. I think will voters sort of follow the actual legal, you know, proceedings of this or will they be empathizing on the overall issue that sort of clouds this case, one of addiction?

RAJU: Yes, and I suspect this is not the last we'll be hearing about this. In fact, we do expect the special counsel, David Weiss, to actually making a statement about this case in a matter of moments. So stick with CNN. There's so much more breaking news begin too in the hour ahead. Thanks for joining INSIDE POLITICS.

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