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Source: Trump's "Not Going To Back Off" Gaetz Nomination; Grassley: Releasing Gaetz Ethics Report Would Speed Up Process; Lawyer: Client Testified She Saw Gaetz Having Sex With 17-Year-Old; Bannon: "The American People Rendered A Verdict"; Trump's Share Of Popular Vote Falls To 49.9 Percent As Counting Continues; Democrats Prepare For Total GOP Control Of Washington; Democrats Look To Hakeem Jeffries To Plot Path Back To Power. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired November 19, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on Inside Politics, priority number one. We're following new pressure on the House Ethics Committee to release its report on Matt Gaetz, says Donald Trump makes it clear, he's prioritizing his attorney general pick over everything else.

Plus, it's on him. Democrats are now looking to Congressman Hakeem Jeffries to navigate its party through situation right now, not being in the White House and being in the minority in Congress. And we have new reporting on how he now may be the most important Democrat in Washington.

And it was just six months ago that Donald Trump was convicted of 34 felonies in the Stormy Daniel hush money case. A lot has happened since then, to say the least. And today, we are waiting for the judge in that case to tell us what Trump's election win means for that sentencing.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

First up, Donald Trump made another cabinet choice. CNN has learned that the president-elect is expected to nominate Howard Lutnick as secretary of commerce. Lutnick is a Wall Street veteran, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, a long time Trump ally, and he is currently the transition chief for Donald Trump. It is well known that Lutnick wanted to be treasury secretary, so commerce seems to be a bit of a consolation prize.

But the real drama inside the Trump transition right now remains his pick for attorney general. We're told, confirming Matt Gaetz is the president-elect's number one priority, even as he is personally calling Republican senators to get them on board.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, working her sources. What are you hearing, Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Dana. Donald Trump has told everyone around him that number one choice he needs to get Matt Gaetz confirmed. That that is the absolute end of the line here for Donald Trump. And he's doing everything he can to make that happen. We reported last night that he was personally calling up senators, trying to get them on board to support Gaetz, or at least ask them what they thought.

Now, Donald Trump, privately in conversations has admitted that it is possible that he does not have the votes right now to Gaetz confirm, but that goes to show you why exactly he is taking this personally and may taking these extra steps to try and work the process. Now this also comes as Republican senators themselves, they are asking to see that ethics report. They think that it is crucial for a confirmation process.

I've talked to a number of people close to Donald Trump about what happens if this ethics report is released? What happens if we get details? Are there any world in which Donald Trump backs away from Matt Gaetz? And I'm told overall, likely, no. And the reasoning being that Donald Trump feels personally invested in Matt Gaetz, that he feels that he made that choice himself, and it's one he wants to see through.

Remember, Dana, one of the things we've reported. He believes that attorney general is likely the most important position in his cabinet, and clearly, he is working that angle to get Gaetz confirmed.

BASH: Yeah. Such great reporting. Kristen, I really appreciate it. And I'm surrounded here by other terrific reporters to get into all of this, Laura Barron-Lopez of the PBS NewsHour, Leigh Ann Caldwell of The Washington Post, and CNN's Jeff Zeleny.

I want to continue on the Gaetz of it all and go right to Chuck Grassley. He is veteran senator from Iowa. He is also the incoming Senate judiciary chair. And he just talked to our colleague, Manu Raju, about this ethics report in the House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): I would suggest, if they want a speedy consideration of this, because you've heard my colleagues, especially on the Republican side, say that they have some questions, not only considering what you're asking me about, but it goes beyond that, to the FBI. And I think it would help faster consideration, the extent to which they wouldn't make as much available as they can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Jeff Zeleny, you have covered Chuck Grassley for a long time inside Iowa and here in Washington. What do you make of that? Because it is news that somebody this senior wants that report released inside the GOP. What do you think he's getting at here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, one thing that has been a hallmark of Senator Grassley's long career at 91 years old, is transparency. And he has been often the thorn in the side of presidents and administrations in both parties. We've seen it.

[12:05:00]

You know, with the whistleblower reports and things, we will see how much fight he has in him. I think that is an open question in the Trump era. Is he able to sort of be as firm and, you know, demand transparency as he once did. We remember that from the Bush era, certainly the Obama era, and even before that, he's been at this a long time.

But look, he could a, be steamrolled or not. He has a very professional staff, obviously, around him, so we will see. But what he's saying there is. I think, the translation of that is, they should give up the report and sort of put this all out there. Otherwise, Matt Gaetz will have a long-drawn-out process. But it's unclear if he -- how much juice I guess he has in this current Trump era?

BASH: Yeah. No, that's a good point. So, there's transparency, which is definitely the hallmark of Grassley's entire tenure in politics. And then there's something a bit more political, but I will note, which is political cover.

I mean, if you are a Republican, not sure if you want to vote for Matt Gaetz or sure that you don't want to vote for Matt Gaetz and are worried about the sort of retribution from Trump world. If this ethics report is damning, if, and if it comes out, it might give Republican senators cover to vote, no.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CO-AUTHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST "EARLY BRIEF": It could. We'll see bad behavior has never been -- this has recent not been a disqualifier for Republicans in office. So, look at the president, president-elect. I will say though, that there is this interesting campaign that's happening behind the scenes. Matt Gaetz, individually, is calling people himself, especially Republican members of the Judiciary Committee, asking members to give him a fair shot in this confirmation process.

I'm told that Donald Trump and people close to Donald Trump are calling individual senators. And at this point, he's gaging if Matt Gaetz and actually other nominees as well would have the votes to pass. He's doing kind of an inquiry on this, but Donald Trump has shown no signs that he is going to back down.

And once Donald Trump is all in. He usually is all in. And we have not yet seen the wrath of Trump and his allies and his grassroots and online supporters that could be unleashed if anyone -- if they are determined to get Gaetz over the finish line.

BASH: As I bring you in, I want to pick up on the sort of reporting that you have and we have as well about Gaetz himself, not just Trump, but Gaetz himself making calls to his fellow Republicans in the U.S. Senate. Manu also spoke with Josh Hawley about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Did you find me with gates?

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I've already talked about.

RAJU: You did. What was that like?

HAWLEY: Well, good. He just -- I mean, he just said, listen, he wants a shot to be able to lay out his vision for the department and also to respond to these various allegations, and you know, (inaudible). The confirmation hearing is the place and chance to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWS HOUR: Yeah. Matt Gaetz knows that in order to get through -- if he has any shot, he has to win over people. And so, he's like talking to people, as well as people around Trump are trying to talk to senators to win over these votes. But Matt Gaetz has spent his time in Washington as Jeff and Leigh Ann know, not necessarily making friends.

The years that he's been here, he's been a thorn in any kind of mainstream Republican side. He has, you know, not really built that many relationships other than other -- with other hardline Republicans. And so, there aren't that many Republican senators that necessarily start off wanting to vote for him.

But of course, to your earlier question, Dana, about political cover. I don't think it necessarily a report like that getting released. I don't think it provides the senators political cover in the eyes of Donald Trump.

BASH: no, definitely not. So, with their constituents.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Right. So, he will -- with their constituents potentially, but if their constituents are so won over by Donald Trump and voted wholeheartedly for him, then they will likely believe whatever Donald Trump tells.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: If the ethics reports are 50-50, the ethics committee is one place on both sides where it's largely viewed as nonpartisan. That could change dramatically. In Trump's eyes, obviously Democrats could be blamed for a leak or other things. So, I'm not sure we know the fallout of the politics of this, never mind the substance of the report.

BASH: Our colleague Erin Burnett spoke with an attorney to a woman who was involved in this case with Matt Gaetz. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL LEPPARD, LAWYER FOR WOMEN WHO TESTIFIED AGAINST GAETZ: She testified to the House that as she was walking out to the pool area, she turned to a right and she witnessed her client -- I'm sorry, her friend having sex with Representative Gaetz, and her friend at that time was 17.

[12:10:00]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR, ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT: And so, just to be clear, she knew this -- that this young -- this girl that then representative Congressman Matt Gaetz was having sex with on the table was underage because it was a friend.

LEPPARD: That's right.

BURNETT: Does your client have any idea as to whether Matt Gaetz knew about the age?

LEPPARD: She testified -- yes. So, she testified to the House that Representative Gaetz did not know her friend's age at the time.

BURNETT: But your clients knew -- he had paid -- also your clients for sex. He was paying for sex.

LEPPARD: The testimony before the House was yes, that Representative Gaetz paid my client -- both of my clients for sexual favors throughout the summer of 2017, all the way to the beginning of 2019.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I want to ask, after listening to that, going -- go back to what I believe it was you said, Leigh Ann, which is that we have to remember that this is a nominee for Donald Trump. For Donald Trump, who has been accused of things, not been accused of having sex with a minor, which I should say, and I'm going to repeat again, Matt Gaetz denies.

But obviously, has -- he was found liable for some -- for a different version of this in New York. And so, combination of that, plus the way that we are told this whole thing unfolded, which is Trump making a gut decision on a plane with Matt Gaetz saying, you're my guy.

That makes it so much more intense and important for Donald Trump, even though, if there was any other time, any other nominee, any other president-elect, that kind of interview, this kind of allegation would be -- it would be lights out.

CALDWELL: Yeah. Tom Daschle didn't get confirmed because he didn't pay taxes on his nanny. Things have changed in the last 20 years.

ZELENY: I think, his driver.

CALDWELL: With his driver. Thank you.

ZELENY: There have been other nannies --

CALDWELL: Other nannies, yes.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Who are many documented immigrants. The answer is yes.

CALDWELL: Yeah. And so, things have changed in the past 20 years. And specifically, things have changed in the party of Donald Trump. That seems to be OK with any sort of scandal as long as Donald Trump denies it or turns it into the victim.

But also think about the role that Matt Gaetz is have been nominated for to lead the Department of Justice, which is also supposed to prosecute federal, you know, sexual sex crimes, illicit drug use, trafficking, all sorts of things.

BASH: And just department that was investigating him on some of those issues, which they ended up dropping.

CALDWELL: Exactly. So, yeah, this -- you know, we'll see it is going to be up to Republican senators. Republicans are trying to say, oh, Democrats can't -- you know, we'll see what they do, if they could block this or slow this. It's important to note that Democrats have absolutely no role here. Now takes a simple Republican majority. So, this is 100 percent up to Republican senators.

BASH: Well, on that, let's broaden it out beyond Matt Gaetz. And just remind people that that Sean Duffy, who was a reality TV star. He was a contributor here at CNN. He was an anchor at Fox Business to be the transportation secretary. And that -- and he is somebody who is totally in --

ZELENY: And a member of Congress.

BASH: And a member of Congress. Thank you. Thank you. That's an important credential. Totally in on all things Trump and all things "MAGA." And that leads to something that Steve Bannon said on his podcast yesterday about the way that he hopes. And the people who are kind of the longtime diehards hope that the broader Republican Party sees his picks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: The elite globalists, they put democracy on the ballot. They force it. It was even higher than abortion. They put democracy in the ballot and the American people rendered a verdict. They said, we want Donald Trump's version of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARRON-LOPEZ: I mean, I think that maybe over -- overestimating what voters actually voted for.

BASH: Are you sure? We're not sure about that.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, I mean, polling shows that, like EP vote cast, which is surveys. A number of voters after the election, found that 55 percent of voters were really scared about Donald Trump's potential authoritarian leanings. That they said that.

Now I believe it was one in six of them voted for him anyways, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily endorse some of his the actions that he may take to overhaul the government because at the end of the day, where a lot of voters said that they voted for Donald Trump to do was to lower the price of goods, was to address the economy.

[12:15:00]

So, when voters start to see Donald Trump make a lot of other dramatic changes, whether it's an Attorney General Matt Gaetz, going after political enemies. If he is confirmed, or whether it's gutting massive parts of the federal government that end up impacting their lives. There could be a backlash. So, the mandate that Steve Bannon is talking about. I'm not sure that we know that that is exactly what voters wanted from Trump.

CALDWELL: Except that voters dismissed all of his, you know, indictments, felony convictions, and January 6 as well.

BASH: We're going to take a quick break and talk more about that mandate in a second. Coming up. It has been two weeks since election day. Votes are still being counted. And to Laura's point, what once seemed like a massive Trump margin of victory is smaller. Does it matter? We'll talk about that after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Two weeks since election day, votes are still being counted. And as they are, Donald Trump's share of the popular vote is shrinking to 49.9 percent as of this morning. Now, to be clear, Trump won all seven swing states, and he did win the popular vote. The first Republican to do so in 20 years. But it was tight. He's leading by 1.7 percentage points, one of the smallest popular vote margins in decades. It's not the kind of historic victory that some have suggested.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL- ELECT: We won the popular vote. Oh, I love that. We won the popular vote by records.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): President Trump had a huge mandate from the American people, not only the popular vote, the electoral vote, they were historic.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): That's reflected in the mandate that he was giving. Given, winning the popular vote and the electoral college decisively.

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): President Trump won a resounding election November 5, and the American people won a different direction. That's why he won the popular vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, Jeff, we bring this up. We'll talk about kind of what Trump does with this in a second. But we want to start by approaching it from the Democrats point of view. And, you know, in a world where perception is reality, because of what we just heard from all of these Republicans, including Trump himself, because the votes were not yet counted. It did seem like it was a bigger margin than before.

And so, the question for Democrats is, how -- whether they even bother to sort of change that perception or just move on. Listen to Chris Coons, Senator from -- Democratic Senator from Delaware, who was Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as national co-chair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): President-elect Trump's victory nationally was not an overwhelming one. It was 1 percent of the American people. In fact, if about 240,000 people across Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania had voted for Vice President Harris instead of former President Trump. Today, we'd be talking about plans for the inaugural balls and Vice President Harris's cabinet picks. This was a close loss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Look, I mean, Republicans want a trifecta. We have to start there. They won the House and the Senate and the White House. For Democrats, as they sort of decide what their next steps are, they can't hide behind the luxury of winning by such a narrow margin or losing by such a narrow margin, because they lost.

However, as we look at all the information coming across, the senator is correct. I just did the back of the envelope math here. 232,561 votes separated Trump and Harris in those blue wall states, we talk about so often, which are now red wall states. So had Harris flipped that and of course, she won the Omaha District, which we talked so much about, that blue dot, she would be president. That is true.

BASH: But she didn't --

ZELENY: She didn't.

BASH: Right.

ZELENY: And it doesn't matter in terms of legislating. How it does matter, I think it is in terms of the mandate. I think the Democrats certainly have the right and the and it's accurate to say that this is not a massive mandate. What's probably more problematic for Democrats, which Senator Coons didn't mention is, the gains that that Trump and Republicans made in blue states like New York, like New Jersey, like Illinois. There definitely was something going on in these states that were not as competitive.

So, they have work to do. There's no doubt. But in terms of the size of a mandate, also sending a message to some of those Republican House members who will be up in two years, who you know, have to own everything that is about to come down the pipe for them. So no, it was not a landslide election, by the original intent that I think Obama won, what 7.2 percent in terms of the popular vote. BASH: It wasn't that landslide. It was clean sweep.

ZELENY: Yeah, it was.

BARRON-LOPEZ: I mean, to Jeff's point about Democrats needing to address their losses in those blue states like New Jersey. One answer that they give is, this is more of a Trump phenomenon. So do those gains actually hold for any kind of Republicans -- any kind of Republican presidential candidate, when Trump is no longer running, especially in those blue states.

[12:25:00]

And then Leigh Ann to your point before the break, when you mentioned, yes, voters totally dismissed January 6. They dismissed the insurrection and all of Trump's legal issues. But one thing that I think voters may not realize, or they seem to also dismiss, was that they didn't necessarily believe that Donald Trump would carry through on mass deportations.

Despite the fact that already now, I mean, everyone, including his appointee to be border czar, is talking about that aggressively. They thought, oh, Donald Trump is not going to attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act. We don't know. They very well still could. Republicans have tried that multiple times. They failed.

Also, I don't think voters will necessarily be happy if Medicaid ends up taking a hit, because Donald Trump doesn't want to touch Social Security and other issues but wants to make massive budget cuts. So, there's a lot of fronts -- policy fronts where voters across the board, at least in polling and in the way some of them voted, appear more in line with Democratic priorities than Republicans.

BASH: It's such good points. And so, the question for Democrats is, where do they go from here? They just this morning, not surprisingly, elected Hakeem Jeffries as their leader again. Our colleagues, Sarah Ferris and Annie Grayer, have a terrific story on cnn.com. It's on him. Democrats look to Hakeem Jeffries as the person that they hope will plot their revival.

Emanuel Cleaver, Congressman -- Democratic Congressman from Missouri, the guy for the entire country right now. Greg Meeks, he is the next generation. He can talk hip-hop and he can talk civil rights. That's one side of this. And then the other side is how to deal with Trump.

Rosa DeLauro said in that piece. We have to take a long, hard look at what our leverage is. Others talked about concern, about avoiding a repeat of 2016 where they trace -- chase Donald Trump every hour, instead of providing their own message and priority.

CALDWELL: Yeah. That's a huge conversation that's happening at the Democratic Party right now. They look at the first four years of Donald Trump and think and know that they can't do that again. They can't -- there cannot be outrage for every tweet, every social media post, everything that Donald Trump says. They are trying now to figure out how to be more strategic, how to have more impact, and where to oppose and to push back against Donald Trump, also with the understanding that some of the things that Trump ran on are popular.

And so, this is a really interesting and important time for Democrats, especially as under Trump, the coalition -- the Democratic coalition seems to have softened, and so Democrats are also exploring the numbers, what the issues are, and what the response rate, and what it will be is going to be.

BASH: So often shifted. It's shifting.

CALDWELL: Yeah.

BASH: Once it is fully shifted, but shifting.

ZELENY: It's absolutely shifting. And I think all of this, which is why what we're about to embark on is not going to be the Trump 2.0 is not the same as Trump 1.0 in every respect. It is also -- there's a wide-open fight that will be sort of brewing on both sides about who the next party leaders are, et cetera. Is J. D. Vance part of that conversation? Some people say, where is J. D. Vance in this conversation?

So, so many things are yet to be worked out, I guess in the next session of Congress. So, it's all the -- you know, when the dust settles from the transition, the part of governing -- we don't know what next year will look like.

BASH: Also, where is J. D. Vance period?

ZELENY: Some people are saying he's been -- you know, eclipsed by Elon Musk, but he's still the one who's sworn in as vice president and will be living at Naval Observatory.

BASH: Yes.

ZELENY: He has a constitutional office. Elon Musk does not.

CALDWELL: I mean, he's expected to be on Capitol Hill tomorrow to help move these nominees. There you go.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Up next. We are standing by for what could be a big ruling in the Trump hush money case. It could come at any moment. Don't go anywhere.