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Inside Politics

Biden Announces Clemency For Nearly 1,500 People; Longtime Biden Adviser Slams President For Pardoning Son; FBI Director Wray To Resign, Clearing Way For Trump Replacement; Connolly Calls Himself "Committee Workhorse" In Pitch To Colleagues For Top Committee Post; North Carolina's GOP-Dominated Legislature Strips Power From Incoming Dem Governor. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 12, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:31:50]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: America was built on the promise of possibility and second chances. That's Joe Biden's message today as he commutes sentences for nearly 1,500 people and pardons 39 others convicted of nonviolent crimes.

My panel is back. Priscilla, you cover the Biden White House. What more can you tell us?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the President had been under increasing pressure to exercise his clemency power and that is exactly what he did today. In fact, this is the biggest single day act of clemency in modern history. So this is a large number of people.

You mentioned there are 1,500 individuals who he commuted their sentences. What we know about them is that they were in home confinement during the pandemic. And in those 39 individuals who were pardoned, they have shown, according to the President, a commitment to rehabilitating and to also for giving back to their community.

So that is how they have described these. We are getting some names and some details as to who they are. That includes a military veteran, a nurse, an addiction counselor. But -- and he also previewed that there will be more actions to come.

But of course, this comes on the heels of his own pardon for his son, Hunter, a full and unconditional pardon that of course sparked uproar. We've also been reporting about some preemptive pardons that may be in the works, given concerns among some officials about being prosecuted or gone after when Donald Trump takes office.

So it's all happening within that context. But certainly there are a lot of groups who have been calling for the president to do more on this. And they did get a big act on that front today. VIVIAN SALAMA, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: One of the interesting things is that Joe Biden was one of the supporters of a very controversial 1994 crime bill that is seen as having fueled mass incarceration. He himself has conceded that he felt, you know, some regret about that.

And so a lot of this, this historic number of pardons definitely kind of comes from a lot of that regret that he has expressed over his presidency.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: But can we talk about the Hunter Biden thing? Because, of course, the news this week was that Anita Dunn had a former top staffer of his, very loyal, came out and said, well, she didn't oppose the pardon itself. She opposed the way it was -- in which it was done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The timing.

BASH: Can we listen to part of what she said?

BORGER: Oh sure.

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ANITA DUNN, FORMER WH BIDEN SENIOR ADVISER: As we were in the midst of the president-elect rolling out his nominees, and in particular in the middle of a Kash Patel weekend, kind of throwing this into the middle of it, was exceptionally poor timing.

And that the argument is one that I think many observers are concerned about a president who ran to restore the rule of law, who has upheld the rule of law, who has really defended the rule of law. Kind of saying, well, maybe not right now.

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BASH: Let me just also give context that I know you're all aware of, but for our viewers to know, Anita Dunn and her husband, mostly Anita Dunn, has sparred with Hunter Biden and his attorneys --

BORGER: Right.

BASH: -- over a lot of things, but particularly, communication around all of the troubles that Hunter Biden and the attacks that he has been the subject.

[12:35:05]

BORGER: Well, and she made it clear when she was speaking that this wasn't done from inside the White House folks.

BASH: Yes.

BORGER: This was done by the family and the personal lawyers, you know, not the official White House counsel, et cetera. So she clearly distanced the White House from all of that. And, you know, she made the point, which I think is well taken, which is who was thinking about the timing of all of this?

You know, when you sit inside that White House, you have to think about when you do certain things. And as she pointed out, it was in the middle of this rocky rollout of Cabinet appointees. And she was sort of saying, well, why step on that? Why step on that when Trump is getting some bad press?

BASH: Yes.

BORGER: Leave it alone.

BASH: Yes. Although perhaps Kash Patel, the fact that he was picked, accelerated the announcement because --

BORGER: Could have been.

BASH: Could have been. We don't know for sure, but we're going to do more reporting on that.

Up next, the old guard versus the new. There is a big generational fight brewing over who should be the top Democrat of a pivotal House committee. I'm going to ask baby boomer Congressman Gerry Connolly why he's a better choice than millennial Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez.

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[12:40:50]

BASH: A perilous new era. That's how the number two Senate Democrat, Dick Durbin, described what's next for the FBI. Director Christopher Wray announced that he will step down from the bureau rather than wait for President-elect Trump to fire him.

Most of Durbin's Republican colleagues, on the other hand, are happy to see Wray go.

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SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I'm glad he did it before he got fired. He would have obviously had to be fired.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: President Trump had lost confidence in him. And I think we know how that would end.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R), MISSOURI: I mean, he's the worst FBI director in American history. He should go. He could be fired for cause, too. I mean, that's what he's -- he's resigned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the cause?

HAWLEY: Well, he violated the Constitution.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I think it's pretty obvious he wants a new FBI director.

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: I think it's good for the country.

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BASH: Virginia Democratic Congressman Gerry Connolly joins me now from Capitol Hill. Congressman, I want you to listen to the reason Director Wray gave for resigning.

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D), VIRGINIA: Sure.

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CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: My goal is to keep the focus on our mission, on the indispensable work each of you is doing every single day. And in my view, this is the best way to avoid dragging the bureau deeper into the fray while reinforcing the values and principles that are so important in how we do our work.

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BASH: So he is suggesting that resigning helps to take the politics out of the FBI. I was told by some sources at DOJ that there is concern that by resigning, he's doing the opposite. He's setting precedent that the FBI director is political, meaning the term of a president ends, they get a new director, which is not the case. It's a 10-year term. What's your view?

CONNOLLY: I tend toward that view. I -- maybe, you know, Director Wray is right that by removing himself, he removes a target, but he's going to be replaced with a partisan hack who has no real experience with the FBI or, for that matter, law enforcement writ large.

And I think for the rank-and-file FBI, I think his decision to resign prematurely under pressure is tantamount to abandonment, abandonment of the FBI and abandonment of them and their protections, exposing them to a political purge.

BASH: Wow, that's a big statement.

CONNOLLY: Yes.

BASH: Why do you feel that way?

CONNOLLY: I think Trump has made it very clear that he sees the FBI as the enemy, which is an absurd proposition, but nonetheless, he has propounded it and Kash Patel has echoed it. Even though the FBI is hardly a deep state agency, my goodness, it's one of the most conservative bastions in U.S. government and has been since it was founded back in the 1920s.

BASH: And I've heard from FBI officials, they argue that despite what we heard from Republicans coming into this segment, that Wray has a lot of support in the rank-and-file.

CONNOLLY: Yes.

BASH: Do you think that that support -- I mean, I know the ship has sailed at this point, but do you think that that support, that there will be a backlash, if you will, because you think that they believe what you do, that it's abandonment?

CONNOLLY: I don't know what kind of backlash there'd be, Dana, but I think there will be a backlash. And I think it will probably lead to a lot of early retirements and maybe people deciding not to make a career at the FBI. I think that kind of talent loss is a loss for the country.

We need a functional, professional FBI as one of the chief law enforcement agencies in the United States government.

BASH: So as a member of Congress, as a senior member of Congress, which constitutionally has the necessity to perform oversight on the entire executive, what can Congress do, particularly on this issue, to ensure that the top law enforcement agency remains apolitical, especially given, you referenced Kash Patel, given the fact that he wrote in his book, quote, "Government Gangsters", that's the name of the book, a list of people he considers part of a deep state and corrupt actors?

[12:45:06]

CONNOLLY: Yes, that's the kind of rhetoric and that's the kind of explicit targeting and threatening that I think can undermine effective government for the American people. So we've got to have a really robust role in throwing the flag down when they, in fact, violate the law, violate norms, violate individual rights of federal employees to protect the American public.

BASH: How are you going to do that in the minority?

CONNOLLY: We have lots of platforms in the minority. Remember, this is going to be a very closely, closely held majority, and they might even lose the majority from time to time here in the House. So we're going to have a lot of leverage --

BASH: Yes.

CONNOLLY: -- and we're going to use all the leverage we've got.

BASH: Speaking of leverage, you're running to be the top Democrat on the powerful House Oversight Committee. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is also running for the role. Besides the obvious, including a 40-year age gap, where do you see the differences between the two of you and how you would handle this key role?

CONNOLLY: Yes, I don't think this election is about generational change or an age gap. I think it's about capability and seasoning and experience. And that's what I'm running on. I think I've shown my ability over 16 years in the committee to take the fight to the other side and to propound and defend and advocate for Democratic values.

I'm good with the media. I'm good with the public. I know how to interrogate witnesses and I know how to manage a committee. So, those are the credentials I'm putting forward to my colleagues and I'm feeling pretty good about it.

BASH: AOC is just one in a -- I know you say it's not about age, but that is -- that does seem to be a bit of a trend going on inside the Democratic caucus on these committees. She's just one of a series of younger, less senior, you would say less experienced members challenging older, more experienced members of the party.

Jared Huffman is one of those, quote unquote, "new guard challengers" going for ranking member of the Natural Resources Committee. He told the -- Politico that he's pushing for new blood in leadership. And he said that you have to approach it like a team sport. It's better if we can help other members of the team lift up their games and succeed. And we need to put the A-team on the field.

CONNOLLY: I think I'm part of the A-team. And I think I've demonstrated that in my 16 years here in Congress. Again, I think it's about capability. And I think the caucus will show that in its vote come Tuesday.

BASH: Congressman, thank you so much for being here.

CONNOLLY: My pleasure.

BASH: Thinking about you. Hope that you are doing well and hope to talk to you soon.

CONNOLLY: Thank you, Dana. Thank you very much.

BASH: Up next, a Republican power grab in the Tar Heel state. How the GOP's supermajority in the legislature is trying to kneecap the incoming Democratic governor.

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[12:52:21]

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ALL: Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame!

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BASH: Chants of shame from North Carolina Democrats after the Republican-dominated legislature overrode a veto of a bill stripping power from the incoming governor, lieutenant governor, state attorney general and superintendent, all of whom just happen to be Democrats. The North Carolina Republican Party is defending the move as just a way that we can continue to have a balanced government in North Carolina.

My panel is back here. So they want to have a balanced government. But look what the voters said. If you look at broadly the way that they elected the legislature, 60 percent in proportion to the state legislative seats, they're 60 percent Republican. With regard to the presidential, Trump won by 51 percent. So he won, but it wasn't a big, huge, overwhelming win. BORGER: Well, this is called trying to hang on to power, however you can get it. You lost. You had a resounding loss in the state at all levels. And it puts the state election board in the hands of the state auditor, who happens to be a Republican.

So the Republican would be appointing people on the state election board. And it does things like that, which is essentially, you know, Roy Cooper tried to veto it. His veto got overridden. And it's just a power grab at trying to kneecap the Democrats.

SALAMA: North Carolina's state elections were seen as basically the one glimmer of hope out of this election in an otherwise red wave that took over the country. And so Democrats were going in really hopeful that they could make an impact and kind of use the state as an example so that when we come to midterms, maybe other states would be able to follow.

But, obviously, you know, the outgoing legislature taking advanced action, which will be very controversial. And Democrats there are extremely worried that this is going to cripple their ability to really make a mark.

BASH: Yes.

ALVAREZ: Well, and it's an egregious example, but it's also part of a trend. There has been similar tussles in Ohio and in Tennessee. So it is certainly a space to watch because of what you just mentioned, the ways in which they'll try to hold on to power.

BASH: Yes. And I think that it's the reason why we're talking about this is, a, it's because it's part of a trend, as you said. But, b, because of what we have focused on really since 2016 and more importantly, 2020, which is the way that Republicans and Democrats recognize the importance of having power over the way that they hold elections.

[12:55:02]

BORGER: That's right. And so when you want to be able to appoint the state election board, that's incredibly important, as we've learned over these last years. And so, people at that level are saying, wait a minute, I don't have to give that up. And that is exactly what happened in this state.

BASH: Yes. Thank you all. Appreciate your insight and reporting always.

Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central will start after a quick break.