Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Trump Welcomes Japanese Prime Minister To White House; World Leaders Watching Trump's Early Moves Closely; Panama Says State Department Claim About Canal Fees Are "Based on A Falsehood"; Project 2025 Co-Author Starts Job As Trump's Budget Chief; New Time Cover Depicts Musk Sitting Behind President's Desk. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 07, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today, on "Inside Politics," global shock and awe. Donald Trump is hosting the second foreign leader this week at the White House as the world carefully watches his frenetic moves that could have serious implications far beyond the U.S.

Plus, a tidal wave of lawsuits crash into the Trump-Musk plans to shrink the federal government. But can the scales of justice keep up with the onslaught of actions from the White House?

And Charlie Chaplin once said, a day without laughter is a day wasted. I know, I could use a giggle, so Hollywood and Broadway Star Josh Gad will join us for our Friday pallet cleanser.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics."

Donald Trump loves pomp and circumstance, and we've seen a lot of it at the White House this week. We have some pictures from moments ago of the president welcoming the Prime Minister of Japan, and it's coming on the heels of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's visit earlier this week.

And we are learning more about global leaders and who might be headed to the White House next week. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is at the White House with that information. Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Dana, there has been a scramble of foreign leaders, trying to get on the president's schedule, which is true for any new administration, but it is more acute in this moment.

Why these foreign leaders are trying to get face to face with the president? Because they know he values that personal relationship. You see the pictures right there of President Trump and Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba.

This is something that two leaders that, do not have a relationship. Obviously, when President Trump was in power the first time around, he developed a very close friendship with the Shinzo Abe -- the late Shinzo Abe. So that is, also hanging over this meeting. Of course, he was assassinated after leaving office.

But there is a rush of leaders coming here. Of course, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister, was here on Tuesday, and we, recall the shocking statement that the president made during his press conference. We will see if President Trump, has something equally shocking later today when they're having an afternoon press conference here. But then next week, the Jordanian King, the Indian Prime Minister, and other world leaders are also rushing to get on the president's schedule.

You know, there's no doubt that these foreign leaders are also paying careful attention to what the president is doing here in terms of reshaping government and things and, threatening, global, trade wars and whatnot.

But, more than anything else, it is just a relationship that these leaders are trying to establish with the president as he returns to power. And right now, they're in the Oval Office having that first conversation in front of the crackling fireplace. So we'll let you know what they say, Dana.

BASH: OK. We're here for it. Thank you so much, Jeff. Appreciate that reporting. Here with me at the table, CNN's David Chalian, Tia Mitchell of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution; and Zolan Kanno-Youngs of The New York Times. Happy Friday.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Happy Friday.

BASH: We made it through another week. David Chalian, the notion of -- I mean, we know that, every president, no matter who they are, being the head of state and welcoming leaders from all over the world is a big part of the job and the diplomacy and maybe even soft power that goes along with it.

For Trump, and more importantly for the leaders who are coming and are preparing to come, it's as with everything, a very, sort of, tenuous dynamic.

CHALIAN: Yeah. I mean, it is true. Right? Foreign leaders are always going to size up a new American president, even one who isn't new to the job, and some of them may have worked with him before. Obviously, not the Prime Minister of Japan, who's new to his job.

But it -- you know, what is so intriguing to me is that the world leaders are clearly trying to size up what Donald Trump 2.0 is. And, but, you know, much like, members of Congress are trying to do that domestically, voters are trying to do that, but so too are world leaders.

And what is so intriguing here about the visit with the prime minister of Japan, clearly, they want to make sure they stay on Trump's good side, when it comes to trade and tariffs. They are not looking to join his list of countries that he sort of declares a trade war on or all of a sudden is trying. So they want to make sure that they are still seen as a very reliable partner to The United States in the Asia Pacific region, and they want to understand if Donald Trump sees them that way or not. And one way to do that is to do it in-person, make the relationship. I don't think this prime minister is quite the golfer the way Shinzo Abe was, which was part of the relationship with, Trump and Abe. But, but clearly wanted early on FaceTime to sort of see where Japan stands in Donald Trump's mind.

[12:05:00]

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: Yeah. I think some of it just has to do with -- for Donald Trump, it's not so much about what he says, what the prime minister says, what policies he's coming to bear. It's how he makes Donald Trump feel, and it's about vibes with Donald Trump.

So a lot of these world leaders want to come and get that FaceTime that you mentioned, but they know it's more personal for Donald Trump. It's more relational with Donald Trump. It's more transactional, quite frankly, with Donald Trump.

CHALIAN: Which makes it clear.

MITCHELL: Yes. Absolutely.

BASH: And there's no secret about that. And so one of the questions, Japan, in fairness, has some issues like, the steel merger, which they're going to obviously be talking about. But beyond that in the almost three weeks that we've seen the new Trump administration, you talked about it being transactional.

And, one of the ways that we've seen that is with the threat of tariffs and then the backing down, when they had a "deal" in air quotes. Let's just listen to -- and never mind what we've seen with the big pronouncement earlier this week on Gaza. Let's just see some of what Donald Trump has said vis-a-vis the world stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd like to see Canada become our 51st state.

The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too. We'll own it.

We're trying to take back the Panama Canal, little things like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS: I mean, those comments back up what you were saying about the transactional nature of this. I -- it's hard to put Donald Trump in the typical political categories that we talk about in terms of foreign policy.

Isolationist, the -- what he said about Gaza, it doesn't really fall into that core category at all. Imperialist, well, we're seeing a cutting and a gutting of USAID right now, which, helps, you know, on, on the global stage.

It really is what have you done for me lately? And in our relationship, what can I do to declare a win? Even if it's not necessarily that you're gaining all that much. And some of these tariff disputes, particularly with Mexico and Canada, we saw a situation where he issued a threat of tariffs, got a statement from Mexico and Canada in which they said they would do things that, in many cases they had already agreed to do.

So you actually didn't gain that much that was new, but it allowed you to declare a win. It allowed you to say to your base, I have secured a deal even if the juice and the substance wasn't really there. Even if there was a division from that. But that's what he's looking for, to declare a deal in that.

BASH: Absolutely. So that was performative. One, misstep, I think, that we did see was with Panama. Look at what we saw from the state department on Wednesday. The following. U.S. government vessels can now transit the Panama Canal without charge fees, saving the U.S. government millions of dollars a year.

Well, you know who didn't agree with that? The president of Panama who took a different tack than we've seen most other world leaders so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT JOSE RAUL MULINO, PANAMA (VIA TRANSLATOR): I am very surprised by the statement from the State Department yesterday because they are making an important and institutional statement from the entity that governs the foreign policy of The United States under the President of The United States based on a falsehood, and that is intolerable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: Trying to drive a wedge between Marco Rubio and Donald Trump. Perhaps, I'd like trying to show, that, he doesn't want to blame President Trump. Right? So he's going, after the State Department for a policy stated.

I think Trump alluded earlier this week in the Oval Office that he was going to speak to the President of Panama soon. And, you know, clearly, Rubio just came back from his inaugural trip. This was the start of it. Right? Rubio was not being nearly as, strident as Trump has been on this issue of the canal.

You can see how the Secretary of State is trying to sort of navigate a way through, something that Donald Trump, is using as just a, yeah, to your point, just a transactional talking point right now. And how the relationship proceeds from here. I'll be curious if they get together in Florida this weekend, before the President goes to Super Bowl or not. I think it'll be crucial to watch.

Because I think you maybe it's a misstep, but I'm just saying, I think it'll there is a performative aspect of this as well. And so Donald Trump loves to go and put the maximum that he wants to see and then call a win if it comes back a little less than that.

BASH: Yeah. No. I mean, that's fair. Maybe calling it a misstep was a little bit, far.

CHALIAN: -- you know?

BASH: No. No. But too far. But I guess the point that I was making was, that all of these other leaders have been falling all over themselves to figure out a way around, the performance of it, whatever it is that they think he's doing, and the President of Panama is like, no, no, no, maybe he's doing it, by going after Rubio instead.

[12:10:00]

I don't want to lose sight of soft power. And you talked about Trump's foreign policy kind of being all over the map when it comes to the typical philosophy of a president. And the fact that he is dismantling USAID, and doing it in a way that is trying to convince his supporters through his social media, through his statements, through what Elon Musk is doing on his platform that USAID is totally corrupt and is totally inept and is just an arm of the left wing propaganda machine, is definitely a different tactic that we've seen from presidents on both sides of the aisle.

Listen to what Samantha Power who used to run the USAID programs, said to Anderson Cooper last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA POWER, FROMER USAID ADMINISTRATOR: These are people who are making sure that kids who are on the brink of starvation get access to food that is currently now stuck in ports, in Kenya, in The United States itself, food that American farmers have grown, food that families are desperate to get their hands on.

It is seeding the field as well to the People's Republic Of China, to the Russian Federation, and other malign actors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So that's why I came into it by using the term soft power. We're hearing a lot of very, hard to listen to and watch stories about the humanitarian effects of just freezing all of these programs globally. But I don't think we're talking enough about who's filling that vacuum and who could fill that vacuum.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Something we've heard in recent years is about this global competition between The United States and China. And often where that actually plays out are in country -- are in areas like Latin America or Africa where it's not just issuing -- it's not just rhetoric by diplomats in different meetings, it's also investment in these areas. Economic investment, but also programs funded by USAID, that fund things like screening for HIV in these regions, screening for malaria in these regions. I mean, programs with real human consequences now that they're frozen. And it's, yes, it's not just a matter of these are human lives here, but also these programs can be a reminder in these regions of U.S. influence and U.S. support. And when that gets pulled back, somebody's filling that void.

MITCHELL: And it's not just the U.S. support, the soft power, the diplomacy with foreign nations. I think we also need to think about the widening effects, the unintended consequences possibly from discontinuing these programs. For example, curing aids in Africa helps reduce aids elsewhere where cures can be used.

If you don't control public health crisis internationally, people who are traveling, because we're in a, you know, a global economy, people are moving, could bring, disease to America. That's just a couple of examples. So it's not like just ending these programs, America can say, Well, we're just saving money, and that's that, and let them deal with those problems. Those problems, if they exacerbate in other nations, can still have effect in The United States.

CHALIAN: And the strategic opening to China and Russia that you're describing --

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right.

CHALIAN: -- that they can step into that vacuum if The United States leaves.

BASH: OK. Stand by because we're going to talk up next about what Donald Trump thinks, perhaps, about his favorite Time Magazine putting Elon Musk not only on the cover but behind the resolute desk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

BASH: It's the first full day on the job for Russell Vought, the new head of the Office of Management and Budget, and more infamously, the architect of the Project 2025 Agenda. Now if you don't know him yet, you should and you certainly will. His office is in charge of and will have its hands in everything in the federal government.

Now never in his wildest dreams could he have imagined that 37 days into 2025, so much of that Project 2025 Agenda would already be in progress. That's thanks to the help of the richest man in the world. Just to name a few of these to do-list, things checked off that you're going to see there: dismantling the administrative state, ending the Department of Education, reviewing the overhauling of federal spending, disregarding congressional spending laws, ending DEI programs, axing initiatives to help the environment. And the list goes on and on and on.

I just wanted to turn back to Project 2025, David, and we're going to -- I think probably going to continue to see this, because it was one of the things that broke through for Democrats. I feel like I know when my 13 year old asked me what something is in politics that is breaking through, and he asked me what it was during the campaign.

And, you know, obviously, we saw Donald Trump dismiss it by saying, I'm not -- I never read it, which could be true. But it's also true that this is the sort of MAGA manifesto, and it's playing out real time. And the fact that they have Elon Musk doing it in such an aggressive way, is head spinning.

[12:20:00]

CHALIAN: Yeah. I mean, during the campaign, the Trump team was really trying to make it seem like Democrats are inventing this, like, boogeyman about, Project 2025. Pay no attention to it. We have no association with it, and it's not real. They wouldn't necessarily disagree with the actual proposals being, but they would just say this is being made too much of.

That ended up not being the case. I mean, as you said, as a branding exercise, it was one of the more successful branding exercises Democrats had, as you watched the sort of approval ratings of Project 2025 with the public go down as they learn more about it.

But the reality was the Democrats weren't necessarily being all that histrionic about it. It is very much a design platform. Russell Vought had a key part in this. And, it is being implemented in many ways. Now a lot of this right now is being implemented, of course, through administrative channels. I think they have desires to really try to get some permanence to some of these agenda items through legislation which hasn't begun yet.

But there's no doubt that part of the DOGE thing that Elon Musk is running is to be uniquely aligned with a lot of the reductions in -- and the dismantling of the bureaucracy, that was at the heart and sole of Project 20252.

BASH: Yeah, no question. And moving on to the broader question of DOGE and who is doing all of this work, going in with these teams of people to various agencies on a daily basis.

Lots of interesting headlines learning more about it. "The Wall Street Journal," 25 year old DOGE staffer resigns -- that happened overnight -- over racial posts. Employee has links to deleted social media account that advocated for racism and eugenics. I should say, just as a side note, Elon Musk is now taking an online poll to try to get him back.

Our own reporting, Trump Energy Secretary allowed 23 year old DOGE rep to access IT systems over objections from general counsel. DOGE staffers scorching the earth as they reshape the federal government.

We don't know what we don't know here.

MITCHELL: Yeah. And that's, you know, for years we've heard from conservatives about the Deep State, dismantling the Deep State. Well, they've ushered in, unelected folks. I wouldn't even call them bureaucrats. People literally off the street, for all intents and purposes, are now coming in and putting authority over federal workers, accessing sensitive federal systems. And they're not accountable because they're not federal employees who, you know, have a say in the system formally. So all of this is done in a way that doesn't allow American voters -- regular Americans, to really understand and be able to hold people accountable.

Now, yes, of course, Elon Musk is the figurehead. Trump is the president, but there's a lot that we don't know exactly what is being done on a day to day basis. Elon Musk is not accountable to Congress. He's not ultimately accountable to American voters. And I think that's very troubling, and that's why the courts are holding up some of these things.

But the question is, under what authority is this happening, and therefore, why is it allowed to to happen?

BASH: I want to read what Peggy Noonan said about this in "The Wall Street Journal." "My fear is Mr. Musk and his young staffers and acolytes are mad doctors who will put 30 chemo ports in the sick body. They'll not only kill the cancer, they'll kill the patient."

And that kind of dovetails with something that I was, told this morning by somebody who's covered Elon Musk for a very long time is that, this isn't just about Project 2025, redoing the federal government, cutting spending, waste, fraud, and abuse.

This is about him getting his systems and his tentacles into the -- way under the hood of the federal government with regard to everything that he's always wanted to do, with AI and with all kinds of systems that he knows about, but -- and may not be relevant to everyday voters, but could be if he gets, really invested and knowledgeable or even in control of them.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Sensitive systems as well too. Right? I mean, my colleagues have reported that, you know, when it comes to the Treasury Department, after obtaining emails, there was an effort to also get Elon to access some of the sensitive payment systems in the Treasury Department as well, which is obviously a big deal. Big cabinet agency with a lot of sensitive data throughout the federal government.

I do think it's always worth reminding too that when Elon came in also with business interests, when it comes to the federal government, his companies also have business partnerships with the federal government. They're on contract as well.

[12:25:00]

Just to take a step back to, you know, DOGE, the DEI executive order as well, rooting out employees there, putting people on administrative leave, USAID. Looking back at the Project 2025 blueprint, it was clear that there was also an intent by Trump and his team coming into the government to root out dissent.

And, yes, the statement might be coming in that this is about cost cutting, this is about government efficiency, but we also know through talking to those close to Trump that they want to install his new administration with loyalists and root out those that they perceive to be roadblocks to his agenda. And all of this should be thought of as a piece of that effort as well.

BASH: Such a good point. Do you want to talk about the "Time Magazine" cover?

KANNO-YOUNGS: So good.

BASH: It's, it's so good. I'd love the detail. Well, all of it. But the detail of Elon Musk holding the paper coffee cup. But, you know, why are we making a thing of this? Because we know Donald Trump loves "Time Magazine" so much, loved being on the cover, loved being the person of the year again. And the idea that this person is getting this kind of attention, you know, you would think on its face, he would be upset about.

I was told by somebody close to him this morning that we're all getting it wrong and that he loves the fact that he can be the sort of the superhero in the eyes of Trump world and that Elon Musk can be the ultimate villain.

CHALIAN: Right. I get that as a shield for a lot of the criticism perhaps. It now goes to Elon Musk and so it's not coming to the president. I would say, that is true until it's not. So we'll see -- you know, Donald Trump's took multiple occasions in front of the press today to say, Elon's only doing the things we agree with.

You know, where we disagree, Elon's not going to be allowed to do those things, is basically what his message was, on a couple of occasions this week, which indicates to me that, like, this is still a marriage figuring itself out. And, if indeed there are too many "Time" covers, I don't know if that'll still be Donald Trump's, perception that it's really ultimately a good thing.

BASH: In Walter Isaacson's biography, when he was having his first dance with his first wife, Elon Musk, whispered in her ear, don't forget, I'm the alpha in this relationship. So that's something that we should keep in mind.

With Democrats out of power in Washington, the Trump resistance is focused on the courts over Congress, but can the judiciary handle the sheer scale of plans coming out of the White House? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)