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Judges Will Decide Fate Of Trump's Most Contentious Moves; Trump, Japanese Prime Minister Meeting At White House; Trump Expects To Talk To Zelenskyy Next Week, Says He Wants To Discuss Security Of Ukraine's Assets Like Rare Earths. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 07, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:32:38]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Today, two major hearings on controversial Trump policies. A federal judge in Boston is hearing a challenge to Trump's effort to end birthright citizenship, and a judge in Washington is hearing a case about what government records Elon Musk and DOGE can have access to.

Now, those two are a small fraction of the dozens of cases that Democrats and activists are already bringing against Trump's early executive actions. Their hope is that the courts will act as a guardrail to the new president.

My exceptional reporters are back here. I just want to look at what has happened so far with regard to the courts and what is still hanging out there, and it's a lot. But I mentioned ending birthright citizenship. Two judges have already issued nationwide injunctions.

Of course, right at the beginning of his administration, the federal funding freeze, there was a temporary injunction on that. Buyouts for federal employees, there was a pause on that this week. The order establishing DOGEs, its access to federal agencies, multiple partial restrictions on that.

Actions against DOJ, FBI employees. There is a stay in some of that. And actions on transgender women inmates, there are some stoppages on that by the courts. But there's a whole lot more already working its way through the judicial system.

Questions or challenges, I should say, to shuttering of foreign aid, ban on transgender people serving in the military, ban on DEI initiatives, DEIA, A, standing for accessibility, order that expands expedited removal of noncitizens, and order barring new asylum applications.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: Yes, I think one of the things that a lot of what Trump is doing is sweeping as what he's attempted to do has been. The courts have stopped a lot of it, which means the pain has not yet trickled down. And I think that, a, is helping Trump get a little bit of the benefit of the doubt among, like, regular folks.

But I think also it's created so much uncertainty not just among the federal workforce, but among users of federal programs, recipients of federal programs, that they literally have no idea what is coming next. And these things could take, you know, months, maybe years to settle. And so it creates a lot of uncertainty.

[12:35:06]

I also am so curious about what are going to be some of the budget implications for what's happening. Again, especially when you talk about the federal workers, so many of them on leave, paid leave, though, but that productivity is no longer there. So there's just so many question marks.

But I think the most egregious things, like trying to end birthright citizenship, those things kind of have been on hold and don't look good. But other things, it could go either way.

BASH: And we cannot -- I think I say this every day, but I need to say it every day -- we cannot emphasize enough that the velocity and the volume of things that he is doing is so intentional, knowing that the courts don't usually work that fast. And knowing that Congress is not going to do much, at least in the short term, about it. It is probably number one lesson learned from Trump 1.0.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: 100 percent. I mean, that was a long list on that graphic, but it doesn't encapsulate all the --

BASH: Exactly.

KANNO-YOUNGS -- executive actions that they put out in week one, let alone week two. This was part of the plan. You know, Stephen Miller during the campaign was honest about this. He said there is an intention to overwhelm the courts here.

BASH: Yes.

KANNO-YOUNGS: -- to overwhelm these traditional guardrails on government. And you are seeing that. They came this time and they had executive orders ready to go with the intention of not only getting it implemented as fast as they could, but to overwhelm some of the courts here.

And I would talk to, you know, lawyers like that would sue in the first term against some of his immigration policies who were saying, we're getting prepared for this moment. You didn't see all of the immigration actions, for example, blocked there in court or even challenged. They're catching up at this point because it was part of the plan.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: And perhaps one of the perhaps friendliest courts in the land to this administration may end up being the Supreme Court. And so as this works its way through the court system --

BASH: David --

CHALIAN: -- at the end of the day. BASH: -- I'm sorry to interrupt you.

CHALIAN: Oh, sorry, go ahead.

BASH: We're going to have to go to the White House moments ago. The President of the United States, the Japanese prime minister spoke to reporters in the Oval Office. Let's watch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

BASH: We're going to wait until we hear from the President --

CHALIAN: Or a translator.

BASH: -- or a translator as to what is happening there. David?

CHALIAN: No, well, I'm just observing the body language here as we're watching --

BASH: I'll get you when they get in. Go ahead.

CHALIAN: So I was just saying that I think that the Supreme Court, as we're talking about the legal challenges, I think we have to hold out. Some of these pauses are happening. I don't know that they will stay in place ultimately when it reaches a court that Donald Trump, he himself appointed three members to and obviously has a clear conservative advantage.

BASH: OK. How -- should we go -- OK, let's go back now.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- always be a topic, especially with Japan. We will be discussing North Korea and many other things. We'll be spending pretty much the day. But that's always a topic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, have you changed your mind about the sale of U.S. steel?

TRUMP: No, I think we're going to be discussing that today. No, I haven't. And I hear we'll have some pretty good information on that. You might want to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A tariff is an option --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes (ph).

TRUMP: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President, tariff is an option if the deficit doesn't get to equilibrium or to equality?

TRUMP: Yes, they are. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, can you discuss what your plan is for reciprocal trade? Are you signing an EO on that today?

TRUMP: I'll be announcing that next week, reciprocal trade so that we're treated evenly with other countries. We don't want any more, any less. So I'll be announcing that next week and many other things having to do not even with trade, but other things.

But I'll be talking about reciprocal trade sometime next week. We'll have a news conference, and we'll lay it out. Pretty simple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) every single country?

TRUMP: It affects everybody, yes. Reciprocal, yes. We'll be talking about that next week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

SHIGERU ISHIBA, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

[12:40:20]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): I understand that the key point in this regard is to make that for mutually beneficial. That means that would benefit the development of the United States as well as the development of Japan. And I do hope that whatever measures and actions should meet this criteria, meaning that serving the interest of both countries. But as to specifics, I understand that we are going to have further discussion.

TRUMP: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, are there any specific concessions that you will be asking for from Japan that you can share?

TRUMP: We'll be having that. I think it'll be very easy for Japan. We have a fantastic relationship. I don't think we'll have any problem whatsoever. They want fairness also.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, do you have a reaction to the new Time magazine cover that has Elon Musk sitting behind your resolute desk?

TRUMP: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

TRUMP: Is Time magazine still in business? I didn't even know that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

(LAUGHTER) TRUMP: Elon is doing a great job. He's finding tremendous fraud and corruption and waste. You see it with the USAID, but you're going to see it even more so with other agencies and other parts of government. He's got a staff that's fantastic.

He's wanted to be able to do this for a long time. Everybody else knew it was existent, but I think never so much. When you look at USAID, that's a fraud. The whole thing is a fraud. Very little being put to good use. Every single line that I look at in terms of events and transactions is either corrupt or ridiculous.

And we're going to be doing that throughout government. And I think we're going to be very close to balancing budgets for the first time in many years. I think we're going to be very close to, in addition to, monies coming in from tariffs, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, he's doing a very good job. I'm very happy with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you put Elon Musk up on the podium for us to ask him some questions, Mr. President, at any point on that topic? Will you put Elon Musk up on the podium for us to ask him some questions?

TRUMP: Oh, sure. He'll be -- he is -- he's not shy. Elon is not shy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any further deliberations on Gaza, sir? A timetable for a takeover?

TRUMP: No, no deliberations. It's been very well received, where basically the United States would view it as a real estate transaction where we'll be an investor in that part of the world and no rush to do anything. We wouldn't need anybody there. It would be supplied and given to us by Israel. They'll watch it in terms of security.

We're not talking about boots on the ground or anything, but I think we'll -- the fact that we're there, that we have an investment there, I think would go a long way to creating peace. We don't want to see everybody move back and then move out in 10 years.

This has been going on for 50 years, much more than that. We just want to see stability. That would be having us have that particular piece in that particular location. I think we'd show great stability and would lead to great stability in the area for very little money, very little price.

And we wouldn't need soldiers at all. That would be taken care of by others. And the investments are taken care of by others also. So for no investment -- I mean, virtually no investment whatsoever, it would bring stability to the area.

And others can invest in it later on. But we're in no rush on it. There's absolutely no rush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump, do you believe DeepSeek is a national security threat? And how do you plan to collaborate on AI initiatives?

TRUMP: On where?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DeepSeek. Do you believe it's a national security threat?

TRUMP: No, I think it's happening. I mean, it's a technology that's happening. It's very -- it's actually -- I think it's -- I think we're going to benefit if it's correct what's going on now, that it'll be a lot less expensive -- the AI we're talking about will be a lot less expensive than people originally thought. That's a good thing. I view that as a very good development, not a bad development.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, on autos specifically, in your first term, you tried to tariff autos. Is that on the table still? Are you trying to do that in your second administration?

TRUMP: Auto tariff?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Auto tariff.

TRUMP: Oh, yes, sure. That's on the table. That's always on the table. It's a very big deal.

[12:45:03]

Because we are -- you know, we have cases where we don't supply autos, and other countries do. And, you know, we have to equalize it. We have to stabilize it and equalize it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you have Vice President Vance meet with President Zelenskyy next week, while he's in Europe?

TRUMP: I will probably be meeting with President Zelenskyy next week, and I will probably be talking to President Putin. I'd like to see that war end. For one primary reason, they're killing so many people, yet losing millions of people on a battlefield -- in this case, mostly the battlefield.

You have 800,000 or 900,000 Russian soldiers are dead or -- and very badly wounded. And the same thing with Ukraine. You have probably 700,000 with Ukraine. The numbers they gave are a little bit lower than that, but I believe those numbers aren't correct.

I'd like to see it end. And just on a human basis, it's terrible what's going on. They have open fields with no protection. The only thing a bullet can hit is a human body, and the human body dies as soon as it gets hit.

No, I'd like to see that end. It's a ridiculous war. It would have never started if I were president. That war would have never started. Putin would not have started that war if I were president. And, by the way, you wouldn't have had October 7th if I was president either. That mess would not have started.

But, no, I would very much like to help out. One of the things we're looking at with President Zelenskyy is having the security of their assets. They have assets underground -- rare earth and other things, but primarily rare earth. And we want to have secure -- really, we want security. Because as you know, Europe is putting up much less money than us, much.

NATO, Europe, call it whatever you want. And we're at probably $300 billion-plus, and they're at probably -- the real number is $100 billion. That's a lot of money, but it's $200 billion less than us, and there's an ocean in between. They need it more than us.

So we're asking them to equalize and get even. But we're also asking President Zelenskyy for the security of -- you know, we're putting all this money up, and we're saying, where does it stop? And yet, we want to see it out to an end. We want to see it end. But we are going to be asking for the security -- and we've already told him -- of an equal amount of something where our money -- I mean, the American taxpayers in for $300 billion.

Biden never negotiated. He never told Europe to put in more money, and it got out of hand. Just like NATO. NATO, we were in -- we were paying almost 100 percent of NATO when I first came in. Everybody was taking advantage of the good old United States, but not anymore.

So what -- and now, if you speak to the Secretary General of NATO, who was very nice when he was here two weeks ago, he said what Trump did was amazing. He got everybody to pay. And to do that, you have to ask. And Biden never asked.

So we're in for probably close to $200 billion more than Europe. And yet, obviously, it affects Europe much more than us. So we would like them to stay -- to equalize, to have to go more. And from our standpoint, we do want security in all this money that we're putting up. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible question)

TRUMP: He may meet next week. Yes. Whenever he'd like. I may --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I may. I could be -- we'll I'm not going there. It's --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you planning to meet with President Putin or are you just planning a phone calls?

TRUMP: It could be. It could be. We've always had a good relationship. President Putin and I have always had a good relationship. That's what's so sad and it happened. This would have never happened if I were president.

It's so sad to see it happen. ?So many dead people. By the way, so many cities are demolished. They're like, you talk about Gaza? Well, take a look at Ukraine. So many of those cities are demolition sites, demolished.

So sad. Should have never happened. All those beautiful golden domes, but much more importantly, all those beautiful people are dead. And it should have never happened.

Thank you very much everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bye, guys. Thank you, guys. Let's go, guys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, guys. Let's go. Thank you, guys. Let's exit. Thank you, guys. Let's go, guys.

BASH: We've been watching President Trump take questions alongside the Japanese Prime Minister in the Oval Office. Heard a lot of different topics discussed, including and especially the President and Elon Musk's continued crusade to dismantle the USAID program, America's soft power program, which he says is full of corruption and says that there's nothing good in USAID.

And Jeff Zeleny at the White House, I'm going to bring you in because it's important to do a fact check here.

[12:50:01]

I don't think even the biggest supporters of USAID would argue that it's not worth looking into and making sure that if there is money that is being misspent or on fraudulent programs, that is worth looking into and doing away with, but totally wholesale gutting the program, which does a lot, not only a lot of good around the globe, but also helps some American industries, like for example, $1.5 billion in agriculture products from the United States goes around the world as part of USAID. What else did you take away from that?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And Dana, that is just one of the many reality checks here of these vast and very quick changes that the President is making really across the government. They all have real life fallout and effects as he is hosting a parade of world leaders here.

There are deep questions about not only soft power, but power and assistance in general. But just a few of the many headlines there as the President was in the Oval Office noted this is before a press conference he's going to have this afternoon.

He was talking specifically about Gaza. He said there's no rush on Gaza. Of course, that was something that really shook the world when he said just a few nights ago here that the U.S. would own Gaza.

He said there's no rush on Gaza. That underscores the fact that there really is no plan in place here. His administration has been scrambling to sort of catch up with his comments from earlier. He also talked about the trade imbalance with Japan. He threatened the idea of tariffs with Japan if the trade balance is not equalized.

He talked about reciprocal tariffs for next week. But, Dana, he also talked about that Elon Musk cover on Time magazine. He said, is Time magazine still in business? I think we both know that he, among many, know it is. Of course, he was Time's man of the year and was very proud of that fact. Dana?

BASH: And gave an extensive interview to Time magazine.

ZELENY: Indeed.

BASH: I don't know, maybe a month, two months ago.

Thank you so much, Jeff.

Just -- there are a lot of important things, including the fact that he suggested that he might be welcoming the Ukrainian leader, Zelenskyy, perhaps next week. But I just quickly do want to talk about that reaction to the Elon Musk cover. His body language changed.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Not only the question about the cover, but also putting Elon Musk at the podium as well to potentially answer questions, which would move the spotlight as well to Elon Musk. It did seem like his body language changed a little bit, you know, after that question.

I'm looking forward to see if the White House actually follows through on that comment that he made to, saying that he would be OK with Elon Musk going to the podium to take questions.

BASH: Right. Because it's not just about a spotlight, it's about us having an ability to ask the man who has so much power questions.

CHALIAN: Yes. But on the cover itself that you're looking at there, you know, the question was so pointed, right? Your resolute desk. What did you think of that? And you just saw, like, he first was like, no. And you could see the wheel still turning that he perhaps thought he was being too defensive and then comes up with the quip of like, oh, is Time magazine still in business?

But that is what we call a pregnant pause between those two things that happened. He -- obviously, you know, I know aides will tell us, oh, you guys got this all wrong. He doesn't care. He told us right there how much he cares the business (ph).

MITCHELL: Yes. I had given him a lot of credit for staying disciplined and not appearing to get trolled into, you know, making comments that shows when his feelings are hurt. He was pulled in this time. And I think that quip about is Time magazine still in business showed that it did nick him a little bit. And he wasn't able to hide it as well as perhaps he might want to.

BASH: I do want to, before we have to go, just kind of broaden it out a little bit and talk about the fact that we cannot overlook that while a lot of people in this country are scared, confused, not happy with the intentional chaos, the people who -- a lot of people who voted for him are applauding. That this is the disruption that they have been hoping for and begging for.

I'm not saying it's a big majority. I mean, different people voted for Donald Trump for different reasons. But I just think that that needs to be represented. CHALIAN: Without a doubt. I mean, I don't even think that's in question. Obviously, the American people have told us loud and clear, they don't think their government is all that functional and serving them all that well.

And when a candidate like him came along and said he is going to bust things up, that was part of the appeal. And he's delivering on that. What we will learn to see is when it all hits reality, when the actual impact of the disruption is felt in people's lives, if they still support the notion.

BASH: OK. Thanks, everybody.

[12:55:01]

Before we go, a tribute to my friend Andrea Mitchell. At this hour, every day for 17 years, she has hosted Andrea Mitchell Reports on MSNBC. Today is her last show. She will still be reporting for NBC News as she has for 47 years.

She's an incredible journalist. She is the epitome of grace and class and is simply a legend. Congratulations, Andrea.

Please be sure to tune into State of the Union this Sunday. My guests include Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and Democratic Senator Cory Booker. That's at 9:00 a.m. and 12 noon Eastern this Sunday.

Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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