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Inside Politics

GOP Shrugs Off Musk Eliminating Spending Congress Approved; Congress May Struggle To Pay For Additional Trump Tax Cuts; Musk Guts Agency That's A Key Check On His Business Empire; Trump Orders DOJ To Stop Enforcing Foreign Bribery Law; Trump Meeting With Jordan's King Abdullah In Oval Office. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 11, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: My next guest is one of the Republicans in charge of getting President Trump's signature tax cut proposal through Congress. He's the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Representative Jason Smith of Missouri. Thank you so much for being here.

I want to talk about the tax plan in one minute. But I do want to ask about the advocacy that you have had going on for a long time for Congress as the holder of the power of the purse. That is what the Constitution says. But you're also a big cheerleader for Elon Musk, who is unilaterally canceling programs and entire departments that Congress funded. Why are you so comfortable with Congress giving up that constitutionally mandated power?

REP. JASON SMITH (D), WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: It's not about Congress giving up any power, it's strictly about looking at government as a whole, making sure it's efficient, making sure that money is not going in places that illegally it shouldn't have gone to. And it's just making sure that government is working for the people.

It's not about the legislative branch by any means giving up our constitutional authority. It's just putting a trust and verify method in place. And then they'll report back to Congress and let us know what they find. And they're reporting to the American people in real time of what they're finding. That is a violation of current law or just really reckless spending.

BASH: Well, I mean, the spending by and large is something that has been approved by the United States Congress. I'm not saying that you have voted for everything, but that is definitely the way it was set up. And why take a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel, if you just want to make sure that a lot of these funds, which you believe -- and nobody's arguing this.

I'm sure there is a lot of -- we know there's a lot of wasteful spending and maybe even fraud in the United States government. But in reality, some people are getting hurt. I just want to give you one example, Mr. Chairman, the blanket freeze on USDA funds. It's hitting some of the farmers in your state. I want you to listen to Skylar Holden. He's a cattle farmer from southern Missouri, just outside your district. He's a Trump voter. He signed a contract with USA, excuse me, USDA to partially fund improvements on his farm. And now he says he doesn't know if he's going to get the money back.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SKYLAR HOLDEN, MISSOURI CATTLE FARMER: They said it could only last a week or two, could last a day, could last months. So they could not pay out at all. There's really no answers. They're trying to cut out all the wasteful spending in the government, which I'm all for.

But the issue is, is it's a signed contract, it's a legally binding contract they're backing, they're not backing out on it. They're not paying out on it. So it puts me in a bind because I've made business decisions based on that contract.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: What do you say to Skylar Holden and people in that predicament?

SMITH: What I would say is that the government needs to do a better job at working for the American people. Too often it seems like the American people's working for the government. And the whole purpose of freezing and putting a hold on everything right now is to review, to make sure it's working the way that Congress and the executive is supposed to implement.

It's unfortunate that this is the case. I've been talking with several farmers that have been experiencing this and trying to help guide them through this process. But it's all going to work out. Right now, it's a little bit disruptive. But that's what this administration promised whenever they were coming to Washington, D.C.

BASH: So when he --

SMITH: -- that they would be disruptive and look at ways to make the government more efficient and working for the people.

BASH: So when he is in a position where he's worried that if he doesn't get the money that was promised, that was passed by Congress, that he could be in a pretty bad situation financially. It's just -- are you saying that this is going to be temporary? Are you -- I mean, this, again, these have real-world consequences across the board, across parties, across the whole geography of America.

SMITH: You know, it's the same issue that we have constituents contact our office, that they have been waiting for over a year to get a claim reviewed with the Social Security Administration. There's over a million cases backlogged.

Why are they backlogged? Because only 9 percent of the Social Security Administration is showing up to work. These are problems that's affecting real constituents. When you look at taxpayers who have filed their taxes, and they've been waiting for their refund way beyond the timeline that they're supposed to get it, when our office has to jump in to make sure that the IRS is working for those people and providing the refund in a timely manner, we just have to look at government as a whole.

Government has its obligation to the taxpayer, and we need to make sure that we follow through appropriately, efficiently, and to the extent of the law.

BASH: Yes. Well, there are a lot of full agencies that have been told not to come to work today that are causing some havoc around the country and around the globe.

[12:35:02]

I do want to talk about your main job there, which is the Tax Writing Committee. President Trump promised that in addition to extending the 2017 tax cuts to add new tax cuts on things like overtime and tips and home health care work.

Some in your party, I know you well know, like Congressman Chip Roy, they think the price tag to do that is too big. How are you going to convince them and to not only expand the 2017 tax cuts but add additional tax cuts when you have such a narrow majority?

SMITH: You know, it's -- I would like to remind my colleagues that the reason we control the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the White House is because of the policies that President Trump campaigned on. And he campaigned on permanency of the expiring 2017 Trump tax cuts, no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, tax relief for seniors, tax incentives for products manufactured in the United States.

These do add up. They are costly. But this is what 77 million Americans voted for whenever they gave President Trump the mandate when it came to his economic policies. President Trump was crystal clear on the campaign trail what he wanted, and this is in fact what we are trying to push in the House of Representatives. And my colleagues who disagree or have heartburn about it, I hope that they figure out what the American people has asked for.

BASH: And do you believe, even though sometimes tax cut legislation does get some Democrats on board, in this environment Democrats are being very clear that they're not playing ball with Republicans because of Elon Musk and for other reasons, do you believe that you're going to have to pass this along party lines?

SMITH: You know, I sure hope people -- I sure hope politicians put people before politics and that they will deliver for the American people. Back on the campaign trail, you heard Democrats say that there should not be a tax increase on people making less than $400,000 a year.

If we do not make permanent these expiring provisions of Trump's 2017 tax cuts, it will create a tax increase on 207 million taxpayers. And so that's about two-thirds of those taxpayers are people who make less than $400,000 a year. So I think Democrats will come to the table and help deliver for the American people when it means delivering tax relief and preventing a 22 percent tax increase on average to every American.

BASH: Ways and Means Chair Jason Smith, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

SMITH: It's good to be with you.

BASH: And coming up, the days of checks on business ethics may be over. That is if you are a close ally of the President like Elon Musk. We'll explain after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:42:30]

BASH: Removing the regulators. It has been a consistent theme in the Trump-Musk push to take a wrecking ball to the federal government. But for Elon Musk, it's also a self-serving gambit.

My colleague Matt Egan has new reporting on how the plan to gut one agency in particular could benefit the richest man in the world, specifically his new payment platform. Matt joins me now. Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Well, Dana, look, this is a big deal because the CFPB is essentially the cop on the beat fighting financial crime, right? This is the bureau that went after Wells Fargo and Bank of America for allegedly opening fake accounts. It's returned almost $20 billion to consumers that have been harmed by everything from illegal mortgage foreclosures to illegal car repossessions.

And Elon Musk, he's made his views on this matter really clear, right? The other day he tweeted out RIP CFPB with a tombstone emoji. He has previously said that they need to delete the CFPB. And a source told CNN that late last week, DOGE, which is led by Musk, deleted the CFPB's X account and that DOGE was granted access to the CFPB's systems.

We know the acting director at the CFPB has told employees there to essentially stop doing any work at all, including fighting financial crime. And what hasn't gotten enough attention is that Elon Musk bought Twitter back in 2022 with the goal of turning it into an everything app that will eventually allow consumers to send money to each other, sort of like Venmo, but even bigger.

And X has been moving more and more into this space. It has state license for payments from 41 different states. And at the same time, you have Elon Musk essentially presiding over this effort to dismantle what is the primary federal financial regulator that would oversee payments. So consumer ethics, consumer advocates and ethics experts have told me that this is a glaring conflict of interest because Musk stands to gain financially here.

I talked to Richard Painter. He was the top ethics lawyer in the Bush White House. And he told me that Elon Musk must recuse himself from anything to do with the CFPB because he's a special government employee and they are subject to criminal conflict of interest laws. Painter said Elon Musk needs to stay away from the CFPB. That's cut and dry. We've reached out to Musk through X and the White House for comment, they have not weighed in. The President Trump last night, he did reiterate that his goal here is to eliminate the CFPB. Dana?

[12:45:10]

BASH: I mean, wow. I really encourage people to read more of your reporting because just to kind of put a finer point on it, what you are explaining is Elon Musk who wants to gather as much information to expand the X platform and he is accessing information about -- and from and by consumers and Americans across government platforms through his efforts throughout the past three weeks. It's really stunning.

Thank you so much for that, Matt.

EGAN: Thanks, Dana.

BASH: And my great group of reporters is back now. So that's just one thing. Let's just look more broadly at the other guardrails for the sort of ethical parameters that government officials are supposed to stay within.

He removed the top government ethics czar, he, Trump, the top government ethics czar yesterday. He signed an order pausing enforcement of law, banning bribery of foreign officials. I mean, these are huge guardrails that generally do protect voters, consumers, and try to keep politicians on the straight and narrow.

It's not always easy. And that's not even mentioning the fact that the Justice Department got rid of the allegations against Eric Adams in New York and Trump made Rod Blagojevich in Illinois made all of the time that he did go away. He pardoned him.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: On any given day, each one of those would be a story worth discussing in and of itself, but it's all coming so fast and furiously. But on the why should people care about this question, I think, of all of this, is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, it came to life after the financial collapse of 2008. It was to protect consumers.

And yes, it's been controversial, liked more by Democrats than Republicans. But equally in the eyes of the American people, I mean, it has been helpful with the credit card fees and other a variety of things. So, again, once people get the sense of, you know, who do they turn to, you never need your government until you need your government.

And I think this is one more example of potentially unintended consequences. But at this very moment, no one seems to care.

BASH: I just want to say I want you to come in. We're waiting for tape to come back of the President and the Jordanian king.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, one of the other big themes here, obviously, is, again, what we were talking about earlier, which is the potential defiance of the rule of law. So in Mayor Adams' case, they didn't even say when the DOJ decided to drop charges, they didn't say, oh, because of the merits or whether what he did was right or wrong, it was simply we want him to be able to enforce our immigration agenda.

So, again, ignoring whether or not Mayor Adams committed a crime there, just saying we want to be able to have that transactional relationship --

BASH: Forgive me for interrupting. Let's go to the White House.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. It's an honor to have King Abdullah with us. He's been a friend of mine for a long time, actually, long before even my first term. And we've had a great relationship. He's a great gentleman, a great leader, and does a fantastic job in his country.

His son, we're lucky enough to have his handsome son with us today. So it's good to see you again. We've had some quick discussions just now, and we're going to have some longer discussions after this.

And the relationship with Jordan has been very strong, has been with me, and it really has been with the country. But I think I've been closer than other presidents to Jordan and what Jordan represents. And it's an honor to have you and your son with us today.

And if you'd like to say a few words. And thank you very much.

KING ABDULLAH II, JORDAN: Mr. President, thank you very much for having us. And so short after your inauguration, I think just as a testament to what you said, is a special relationship between our two countries and the personal relationship of friendship and trust between the two of us.

Mr. President, I truly believe that with all the challenges that we have in the Middle East, that I finally see somebody that can take us across the finish line to bring stability, peace, and prosperity to all of us in the region. And it is, I think, our collective responsibility in the Middle East to continue to work with you, to support you, to achieve those lofty goals.

So I'm very delighted to be here. And as you said, sir, we've got some very interesting discussions ahead of us.

TRUMP: Very good. Very good. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, many people in the region, especially in Jordan, are worried about the annexation of the West Bank. Will you give His Majesty, the King, guarantee that you won't allow Israel to annex the West Bank? And how are you going to --

[12:50:09]

TRUMP: I think that's going to work out very well. That's not really what we're talking about today. I think that's something that's going to work out automatically. And it's in good shape. And we discuss it. Other people have discussed it with us and with me. That's going to work out. West Bank is going to work out very well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, why should the King take in the Palestinian people? He's made clear he doesn't want to.

TRUMP: Well, I don't know. But he may have just something to say because we discussed just briefly. I think maybe you want to say it now or?

KING ABDULLAH II: Well, Mr. President, I think we have to keep in mind that there is a plan from Egypt and the Arab countries. We're being invited by Mohammed bin Salman to discussions in Riyadh. I think the point is, is how to make this work in a way that is good for everybody.

TRUMP: Right.

KING ABDULLAH II: And, obviously, we have to look at the best interests of the United States, of the people in the region, especially to my people of Jordan. And we're going to have some interesting discussions today.

I think one of the things that we can do right away is take 2,000 children that are either cancer children or in a very ill state to Jordan as quickly as possible. And then wait for, I think, the Egyptians to present their plan on how we can work with the President to work on the Gaza challenges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you --

TRUMP: I wanted to --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Excuse me. Wait. Excuse, please. I didn't know that what you just said, 2,000 children with cancer or other problems. And that's really a beautiful gesture. That's really good. And we appreciate it. And we'll be working on the rest with Egypt.

I think you're going to see some great progress. I think with Jordan, you're going to see some great progress. The three of us will have some others helping, and we're going to have some others at a very high level helping.

And the whole thing will come. It's not a complex thing to do. And with the United States being in control of that piece of land, a fairly large piece of land, you're going to have stability in the Middle East for the first time.

And the Palestinians or the people that live now in Gaza will be living beautifully in another location. They're going to be living safely. They're not going to be killed, murdered, and having to leave every 10 years.

Because I've been watching this for so many years. It's nothing but trouble. Everyone's being killed. They're being robbed. It's like living in hell. And they're going to end up having a great home, great families that don't have to get mugged and killed and beaten up and harassed by Hamas and everybody else.

And I know we'll be able to work something. And you -- what you just said about the 2,000 is fantastic. It's so beautiful. It's music to my ears. But we're going to be able to work something. And I know we'll be able to work something also with, I believe, not 100 percent, but 99 percent we're going to work out something with Egypt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, during your election campaign --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, how is the U.S. going to own Gaza? Your White House has made clear taxpayer dollars won't be used for this. So --

TRUMP: No --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- what money are you going to use to buy Gaza?

TRUMP: We're not going to buy anything. We're going to have it. And we're going to keep it. And we're going to make sure that there's going to be peace. And there's not going to be any problem. And nobody's going to question it.

And we're going to run it very properly. And eventually, we'll have economic development at a very large scale, maybe the largest scale on that site. And we'll have lots of good things built there, including hotels and office buildings and housing and other things. And we'll make that site into what it should be.

And the people from Gaza who wouldn't be able to be there for years because you're talking about just to get it and prepare it. And to take care of all of the problems that currently it has, as, you know, tunnels and people are in those tunnels and you have some good people and some bad people. And you may have hostages right now, you know, you have the hostages possibly there.

They don't know where they are. And, you know, I have a Saturday deadline and I don't think they're going to make the deadline personally. I think they want to play tough guy, but we'll see how tough they are. But it's going to be a wonderful thing. It's going to be wonderful for the Middle East.

I think it'll turn the Middle East. I think you're going to have peace in the Middle East. You're going to eventually have peace in the Middle East.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, couldn't this deadline risk undermining the talks that you're having with the King today, risk the kind of wider peace that you're trying to --

TRUMP: No. Because that's not -- we're not talking about a big situation. We're talking about something that can go very quickly. We're talking about -- it's going to go quickly. It's not going to take a long time, OK? That's not going to take a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where -- when you --

TRUMP: You know bullies? You know what a bully is, right? You know the bully, I've always -- and I've found it throughout my life, a bully is the weakest person. And they're bullies. Hamas is bullies. The weakest people are bullies. You know that, right?

All right, go ahead.

[12:55:07]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, you were saying that Palestinians will live somewhere else safe. Where exactly do you want them to live?

TRUMP: Well, it's not where I want them to live. It's going to be where we ultimately choose as a group. And I believe we'll have a parcel of land in Jordan. I believe we'll have a parcel of land in Egypt. We may have someplace else.

But I think when we finish our talks, we'll have a place where they're going to live very happily and very safely. And, you know, don't forget, they only want to be on the Gaza Strip because they don't know anything else.

They never had an alternative and they don't want to be in the Gaza Strip, but they have no choice. They have to be. And they're being killed there at levels that nobody's ever seen. No place in the world is as dangerous as the Gaza Strip. They don't want to be there. They have no alternative.

When they have no alternative, not one person will want to stay where they are. Nobody wants to stay there. They're living in hell. It's a death trap.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, how do you know that the Palestinians don't want to leave their land? Some people say this is ethnic cleansing. You won't be able to force them to leave their land. This --

TRUMP: We're moving them to a beautiful location where they have new homes, where they can live safely, where they'll have doctors and medical, and all of those things. And I think it's going to be great.

Yes, any questions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: King Abdullah, what do you think about the U.S. taking over the Gaza Strip? Do you want to see the U.S. own the Gaza Strip?

KING ABDULLAH II: Well, I think, as I said earlier, the President is looking at Egypt coming to present their plan. As I said, we will be in Saudi Arabia to discuss how we can work with the President and with the United States. So I think let's wait until the Egyptians can come and present it to the President and let's get ahead of ourselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is there a parcel of land, Jordan, that you're willing to have in Palestine?

KING ABDULLAH II: Well, I think what we said, I have to look at the best interest of my country. I think the President is very happy that we do this thing with 2,000 children as quickly as possible. And again, I believe that the President is looking forward to getting a group of us Arabs up here to discuss the overall plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the 2,000 children, are those from the Gaza Strip?

KING ABDULLAH II: Oh, absolutely from the Gaza Strip.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you willing to change your mind, Mr. President --

TRUMP: That's from the Gaza Strip, the 2,000.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you willing to change your mind if you hear the Egyptian and the Arab plan end of the month? If they present you something different, are you open to the Arab plan?

TRUMP: I think we have gone down the line. We know pretty much what is going to be presented. And I think it's going to be something that's going to be magnificent for the Palestinians. They're going to be in love with it. I did very well with real estate. I can tell you about real estate. They're going to be in love with it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But Mr. President --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, does it concern you that moving 2 million people from there --

TRUMP: It's a very small number of people relative to other things that have taken place over the decades and centuries. It's a very small number of people. And they're living a terrible life. Look at the way they're living now. Nobody's living like that in the entire world.

They're living under buildings that are mostly fallen down and will continue to fall down. And they're living under. People are being killed every day. The conditions are horrible. There are no conditions anywhere in the world that are worse than the Gaza Strip right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But don't you have confidence that you can destabilize Jordan and --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said the hell will break out if all the hostages are not released on Saturday. What did you mean by that? And are you encouraging Netanyahu to walk away from this deal? Have you talked about this with him?

TRUMP: So I've looked at what at the condition of people coming out of the hostage situation, and it's horrible. I looked at the before and after. Yesterday three young men, one is dead now, as the older gentleman who died, which everybody said he was alive and well he's dead, but the three young men, and I looked at them from a short while ago, and I looked at them now, they're emaciated.

They look like Holocaust survivors. They looked --I mean, they'll get better, but they're in rough shape. They were treated really badly, and we've heard things from them since. And I think the reason that Hamas is playing so cute is because they probably -- they saw the reaction to these three people that came out and the other ones.

Look, the one young lady had her hand blown off practically, and they were not in great shape either. But she's missing her fingers and a big part of her hand. You know what she did? She was stopping a bullet that was aimed at her. She went like that, that it blew off her hand.

Now, I think what they're -- I think they want time because I think the people that they have living are in such bad shape because they're sending the most healthy people out because they don't want to send the least healthy people out.

And there was an uproar when they saw the people from yesterday. So these people are -- so I don't want to --