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Today: Judges Hearing Multiple Challenges To Trump Actions; Musk: "We Need To Delete Entire Agencies"; Trump, Musk Amp Up Efforts To Slash Federal Workforce; Senate Confirms RFK Jr. As Health Secretary, 52-48; McConnell Is Sole Republican To Defy Trump On Key Cabinet Votes; Trump On Track To Have All Cabinet Picks Confirmed. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 13, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, the incredible shrinking government. The president and his billionaire benefactor are barreling ahead with their plan to slash the federal workforce, which could include eliminating entire agencies.

Plus, Secretary Kennedy. The Senate just confirmed RFK Jr. as secretary of Health and Human Services. It's a tough pill to swallow for many Democrats, but not those who want to overhaul America's food and pharmaceutical industries.

I have a special report on the Make America Healthy Again movement. And the Musk show. Two people who covered Musk's entire career, will tell you what they think is really behind his deep interest -- deep inside the federal government.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

Right now, Donald Trump's audacious overhaul of the U.S. government is facing some big challenges in courtrooms across the country. CNN's Paula Reid is tracking it all. Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Dana. The administration continues to defend its policies in courtrooms across the country amid dozens of lawsuits. So far, the administration has lost most of these initial hearings as judges have paused or blocked their policies.

But today alone, there will be more cases heard, including in Maryland, there is a hearing challenging President Trump's move to allow ICE to operate in sensitive places like churches or schools. There's also a hearing actually happening right now over Trump's move to dismantle USAID.

Now this judge that is hearing this case today previously blocked that plan until Friday, he is now considering whether to indefinitely block that plan, and that is a Trump appointed judge hearing this challenge underway. Right now, we don't have an answer, but we expect to get one soon. Also, a challenge trying to revoke Trump's effort to eliminate gender affirming medical care to patients who are under 19.

There's also a hearing on a government watchdog, Cathy Harris. She was the chairwoman of the Merit Systems Protection Board. That's a significant agency because that's where federal workers go with complaints about their supervisors or the federal government. She was fired and she's looking to have her job reinstated.

Now we'll note last night, the Trump administration did get its first significant win, when a judge in Boston said the federal buyout program for federal workers could go forward. Now it's interesting, the Trump administration did not wait for any appeals there from federal workers. They said that that offer ended at 7 pm about 75,000 workers have accepted that deal, Dana.

BASH: Wow. And this is a really important point that I want you to make, which is, all of these court cases that you were talking about that's just today and never mind what we've seen over the past few weeks. The Trump administration, those who played this out and planned this out, they expected the challenges in the courts and that's part of their strategy.

REID: Absolutely, Dana. Even before Trump was sworn in, I was told by the lawyers working on a lot of these executive orders that they knew these were going to be challenged in court. They were going to be challenged in jurisdictions where the Trump administration would likely lose.

We know Republicans do the same thing when they challenge Democratic policies. They said we expected to lose. The goal here is to push these questions to the Supreme Court, where they hope that conservative super majority will agree with least some of Trump's uses of executive power.

BASH: And that it would really be the law of the land. Thank you so much, Paula. I appreciate that reporting. And it's not just the buyouts of federal workers, we're also learning about scores of firings at federal agencies, including the Department of Education and the Small Business Administration, just the latest move in this massive effort we've been talking about day in and day out to drastically shrink the federal work force.

Listen to what Elon Musk said overnight to a summit in Dubai.

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ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA MOTORS: We do need to delete entire agencies as opposed to leaving a lot of them behind, because if you leave part of them behind, it's easy. It's kind of like, leaving a weed, if you don't get remove the roots of the weed, then it's easy for the weed to grow back. But if you remove the roots of the weed, it doesn't stop weeds from ever growing back, but it makes it harder.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BASH: I am surrounded now by a terrific group of journalists to talk about all of this, CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, Frank Foer of the Foer -- I know that -- I know better than that, sorry, Frank, of the Atlantic, and Leigh Ann Caldwell of Puck. Thank you so much for being here. It's good to see you all.

I just want to kind of start big picture with where we are, and just to kind of reiterate that none of this is surprising, given what we heard time and time again from Donald Trump. And yet, it's so critical to try to keep following it and reporting on it and give the context around what it is that they're actually trying to do, Frank?

FRANK FOER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Right. So, this is an act of deletion, as Elon Musk just said, it is a purge. And what they're destroying are not just jobs and not just departments. They're destroying an idea. They're destroying an ethos, which has infused American government for more than hundred years, which is this idea is that we have these group of people who execute policies.

They work in the service of the nation. They respond to whoever the president the United States is, and they follow their commands. But when they execute those policies, they're supposed to do it in a neutral way that doesn't favor the president's friends or penalize the president's foes that prevents corruption from emerging. I mean, corruption really is the weed that keeps emerging.

And this these ethical rules, these standards, these procedures, the culture of the government was the thing that prevented corruption from really flourishing in Washington. And I think the danger is with what they're doing is not just we're going to lose competence, not just that we're going to lose expertise, and not just lose things that actually protect the American people, but it will be replaced by a system that is fundamentally corrupt, where the president and people like Elon Musk are the ones who exploit the government for their own gain.

BASH: And the argument that they make, of course, is that what is corrupt is this sprawling federal government with agencies that people haven't heard of, with people who work there, who are not accountable, which, you know, certainly makes sense on its face. They also argue that there's just too much money being spent, and that the deficit and the debt are out of control, also makes sense. But then the question is how they're going about it?

And I want you to listen to what happened this morning on Capitol Hill. One of the picks for his cabinet, Linda McMahon, is getting her hearing. And she is going through the process of getting confirmed to lead a department, the Department of Education, that Donald Trump wants to eliminate.

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SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Do you agree that since the department was created by Congress, it would need an act of Congress to actually close the Department of Education? LINDA MCMAHON, NOMINEE FOR EDUCATION SECRETARY: And certainly, President Trump understands that we'll be working with Congress, but certainly does require congressional action. Long before there was a Department of Education, we fulfilled the programs of our educational system. Are there other areas, other agencies, where parts of the Department of Education could better serve our students and our parents on a local level.

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BASH: I mean, the fact that she said it does require Congress to get involved. I mean, that's heartening. It seems pretty basic, but it's heartening. The question is whether they're actually going to mean it when they're also dismantling USAID, which is budgeted through the United States Congress and named through Congress. They want to dismantle FEMA, which is part of DHS, which is definitely made clear that it is an agency through Congress.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: And they're doing this, by the way, without nominated or people who have been confirmed in the Senate. These actions are happening despite these who is going to lead them. So, whatever Linda McMahon says, isn't necessarily how they administ, how Donald Trump and Elon Musk are going to deal with the Department of Education.

One thing that's interesting about what Elon Musk says is about accountability, these unnamed bureaucrats who are not accountable to the people, you know, who is accountable to the people members of Congress, who are the ones who are supposed to represent also the bureaucracy and spend -- send money to the bureaucracy and how they're supposed to spend that money.

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But the administration is making those decisions in spite and aside from what Congress has already allocated. You know, this has been -- Russell vote has written about this, of course, in Project 2025. This is a theory that conservatives have really been gaining a lot of steam on as this expanded executive power. And to control the entire federal bureaucracy, and that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing.

BASH: As my dear friend on another network said, while Elon Musk was talking about unelected bureaucrats or unelected people running government too much. That was the moment irony really died. I want to get to your terrific reporting, which is the fact -- and this is more about how it's being done, not what is being done, which is, all of these agencies, even though they have been told by federal judges, stop, stop dismantling. They're doing it anyway.

I'm just going to read part of your story. FEMA has clawed back $80 million intended to help New York City house migrants. The EPA has paused more than 30 grant programs, including some providing money for schools to buy electric busses. And USAID contractors say hundreds of millions of dollars of contracts have not been paid. Multiple lawsuits now accuse the administration of violating Congress' powers over government spending, as well as a federal judge's orders to turn funding back on after the White House freeze late last much -- late last month.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has happened so abruptly and that there were lawsuits that followed that people are in a state of panic and confusion. According to all the sources that we spoke with, they don't know what to do with these funds. These are funds that were allocated by Congress because you have a pause from a federal court, followed by guidance within the agencies to stop all funding.

So, what do you do? And a really crystallizing moment for officials was when this week, the Department of Homeland Security fired for FEMA officials, for providing funds to New York City. Funds that were already allocated by Congress that are part of an ongoing and existing program.

And that was a moment that sources say, made it so clear that they could either -- this is the conundrum. You either don't do what legally you're supposed to do, or what a judge, a federal court says you're supposed to do, or you risk losing your job. Which path do you take? And the reality on the ground in our reporting is that the programs, or the states, the cities, the organizations that are receiving these federal funds, they are also at a loss.

I spoke to one organization after this reporting that helps immigrants with their citizenship, so helping them essentially learn, educate them for the test and all that comes with it. They're firing people. They don't have -- they don't know when these funds are going to be turned on. And they said it quite simply. They said, I can't tell my creditors that the government is not giving me money and I don't know when to expect it.

So, the reality is that this all trickles down. And I think to your point about members of Congress, that's where constituents are speaking up and where that bubbles up and how that plays out is still to be seen, I think.

BASH: Urge everybody to check out your story online. Don't go anywhere. Up next, a Kennedy in the cabinet. RFK Jr. is set to bring his MAHA movement to the Department of Health and Human Services.

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BASH: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is now America's health secretary. The Senate voted 52 to 48 to confirm Kennedy to lead HHS. Mitch McConnell was the only Republican to vote against President Trump's pick. The former GOP leader explained in a scathing statement, quote, I'm a survivor of childhood polio. I will not condone the re-litigation of proven cures. Mr. Kennedy failed to prove he is the best person -- possible person to lead America's largest health agency.

My panel is back. Good to get to that McConnell beat in a second. But I just want to show everybody where we are when it comes to filling out Trump's cabinet. He's doing really well. He's got most of the big jobs fill, not all of them. There are some who are unconfirmed.

The Secretary of Agriculture while we were on the air, was also confirmed. It's now largely long-party lines because Democrats are trying to push back against the other things going on, but the McConnell of it all. You've covered Mitch McConnell for a long time, as have I, and you wrote in Puck something I want to read to our viewers.

The 82-year-old has morphed into an ornery rank and file senator with the ability to upend MAGA's legislative agenda and torment his former tormentor, Donald Trump. This enigma amplifies growing questions of how McConnell plans to spend his hard-earned out of, you know, what's to give twilight era. I mean, that's so genius, Leigh Ann.

CALDWELL: So, McConnell is in this twilight era. This is the very last stage of his career. We all know he's 82 years old. We know that his health is -- his body is not necessarily keeping up anymore, and he hasn't decided to run for reelection. And we also know he has a long history of with Donald Trump.

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He has no regard for the former president. He is looking at these confirmations as nominees, as a symptom of Donald Trump as something that where the party has gone wrong. The party is moving in the wrong direction.

But I will say the biggest priority for Mitch McConnell in his last phase is going to be defense funding and making sure that the isolationist movement and the Donald Trump Republican Party does not expand to defense funding. The question I have is, how much influence does he have in his party still, especially when he is the lone soul anti vote against these nominees, to influence on issues that really matter, including like this issue of defense that is absolutely so important to him?

FOER: I mean, really, if we were to go in and we were to deliver truth serum to Republican senators, you would find that there would be -- there would be enough, by probably a little bit of a margin to stop somebody like Kennedy from getting confirmed, or to stop somebody like Tulsi Gabbard from getting confirmed. But it hasn't happened.

And so, you have -- I mean, we're back to like this whole scenario where suddenly, in the first Trump term, the adults in the room were, you know, Mattis and Kelly and these people who were in the White House. Now, like the adults in the room are supposed to be like this block of senators, people like McConnell and Murkowski and the like.

And yet, I think they may be learned some lessons from the first go around. And they're withholding their leverage points and their attempts to influence, waiting for their moments. And you have this sense that their moments will never arrive because they just lack the courage to do it in a meaningful way.

CALDWELL: It also shows how -- as I said in the piece, I won't use the language, but McConnell is impervious to the challenges and the pressure that other senators are going to feel from Trump, from MAGA world. He's likely not running for reelection. He has been, as he has said, the spear catcher for the Republican Party for many years. So those things don't bother him, which is separates him, yeah, from the rest of the --

ALVAREZ: Well, I think --

CALDWELL: I wrote it against three nominees --

BASH: Exactly. I do want to get to the RFK Jr. of it all. You mentioned truth serum. Maybe you're channeling Angus King as you are wanted to do.

FOER: Well, true serum is suddenly unregulated.

BASH: Well done, Frank. Angus King gave a Senate floor speech last night, and here's what he said.

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SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): I haven't heard too many people come up on the floor and support this nominee and tell us why he should be approved. Because you know what, Mr. President, if this were a secret ballot, this man wouldn't get 20 votes. Everybody in this body knows he's not qualified. He's a danger. We have physicians in the Senate. I believe that the Hippocratic Oath do no harm should apply to Senate votes. You should not be voting for somebody who you know is going to do harm to the public health.

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ALVAREZ: Well, we've learned over the course of these confirmations that what Donald Trump wants, Donald Trump gets. But there is a lot that happened behind the scenes here, particularly with RFK Jr., when we were all waiting to see where Bill Cassidy was going to land, and then he gave a speech on the floor where he described sort of what commitments he had received from RFK Jr. to make him comfortable.

There was private calls with the vice president. So, he certainly, -- while he has had a streak now of multiple confirmations, despite the controversy around some of these nominees, there was a lot of work that went into all of them.

I think the next question though, is Donald Trump can be quite unpredictable, and how long will he stay loyal to those that he's picked in the first term? I think I covered five Homeland Security secretaries. So, right now, everyone seems to be getting along. The confirmations are happening. DOGE is doing what DOGE is doing. But I think there's still a lot to the story here that we just don't know yet.

FOER: I mean, I think a lot of these picks have been pre-vetted in a way, and everybody knows what they're getting into this time. Everybody knows that Trump can be capricious and that he can fire them for going off and deviating in any sort of way. And so, you have -- you know, everything is moving in lockstep. BASH: I'm glad that you teed up the question about who's supporting RFK Jr. because, turns out we have a story on it coming up. And I just want you to go back in time, not that long ago, to remember the political power of the soccer mom. Guess what? Now there is another force, the MAHA mom. We're going to take a closer look at the women and men, moms and dads behind the influential Make America Healthy Again movement. Stay tuned.

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BASH: Just this morning, what once seemed like a long shot, a vaccine critic running the nation's public health agencies became a reality. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. owes his new title in large part to a coalition known as the MAHA movement. We spent time learning about how wellness influencers took their mission to Make America Healthy Again, all the way to President Trump's cabinet.

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BASH: October 2024, Battle Creek, Michigan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a monumental moment.

BASH: An army of protesters delivered 400,000 petitions to Kellogg's headquarters, demanding the company make good on a pledge to remove artificial dyes from its food.

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