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Rubio: Time To "Move On" If Russia-Ukraine War Can't Be Ended; Zelenskyy Accuses Witkoff Of "Spreading Russian Narratives"; Judge Pauses Trump's Mass Firings At CFPB; Gov. Shapiro Says He Hasn't Heard From President Since Arson Attack; Trump Takes Questions On Man Mistakenly Deported To El Salvador; Trump On Ukraine Deal: Needs To Get Done "Quickly". Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Shortly after meeting in Paris with European and Ukrainian officials, Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned if Ukraine and Russia don't agree to end the war in the coming days, the United States needs to move on.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We came here yesterday to sort of begin to talk about more specific outlines of what it might take to end the war, to try to figure out very soon, and I'm talking about a matter of days, not a matter of weeks, whether or not this is the war that can be ended.

If it can, we're prepared to do whatever we can to facilitate that and make sure that it happens, that it ends in a durable and just way. If it's not possible, if we're so far apart that this is not going to happen, then I think the President's probably at a point where he's going to say, well, we're done.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins me now. Nic, thank you so much for being here. Have you heard any clarity as to what Rubio means by moving on, and or is it your sense that obviously you could hear the frustration in his voice that this is a negotiating tactic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It certainly does put pressure on all sides, and it's not clear which way he's aiming that pressure. Is it more on Putin, who's been holding out for over a month on an unconditional ceasefire that Ukraine signed up to more than a month ago? There's that.

We know that President Trump has talked about his frustrations with Russia and the possibility of putting secondary sanctions and tariffs on Russia. But President Trump's also been very clear that he's frustrated with Volodymyr Zelenskyy and is frustrated with, you know, the minerals deal has been frustrated as well by Ukraine's position that it's held. And Zelenskyy himself appeared to be reacting last night to what Steve Witkoff has been saying, and Zelenskyy accusing Witkoff of channeling Vladimir Putin and taking his lines, and Zelenskyy saying that he was not ready to commit to giving up territory that Russia has seized. That's a red line.

Is that a pressure that's been happening behind the scenes? Rubio spoke about putting a broad framework to all parties. But, again, we're not clear who is getting the maximum pressure. Certainly, from the Russian perspective, they hope the pressure is going on Ukraine.

Where it goes from here, the next couple of days, as Rubio says, will be critical. There will be, we understand, another round of talks, the same parties getting around the table, getting around the table here in London and perhaps significant to that. Prime Minister Keir Starmer here just a few hours ago spoke with President Trump.

BASH: That is certainly interesting.

Nic, thank you so much for that reporting. Appreciate it.

I want to bring in CNN's Alex Marquardt and Kylie Atwood. First, Alex, Rubio's comments. It is noteworthy that he didn't call out Russia or Ukraine. What does that tell you?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, the question that Nic was asking, whether it's more pressure on Russia or Ukraine, I mean, certainly he could have put pressure on Russia saying, if you don't go along with this in the next few days, we'll impose more sanctions, we'll impose more tariffs.

That is something that Trump has said. I mean, they're -- we don't know what Rubio had said in a conversation yesterday with the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Certainly, there could have been that implication that they would start to use a stick rather than the carrot of concessions that they have made until this point.

And certainly, the U.S. is expecting concessions from both sides. So both sides will be feeling this pressure now. I think we could expect to see something from the Russian side, something incremental, because they have shown a willingness to try to get back into Trump's good graces.

And let's remember, Ukrainians have been playing ball. They did agree to that ceasefire five weeks ago --

BASH: Yes.

MARQUARDT: -- while the Russians have added conditions. They said that sanctions need to be lifted. So they've been going along with this. Trump doesn't just want a ceasefire. He wants a full peace deal.

And as we know, he's getting very impatient. His special envoy, Keith Kellogg, has talked about a 100-day timeframe. That's almost certainly going to run out. But we haven't seen any evidence, at least not today, that the U.S. is ready to flip the script and really put the screws on Russia to try to end this war.

BASH: Yes. And I do want to ask both of you about some new reporting that you have about -- we heard Nic talk about Steve Witkoff. He's the President's special envoy. He was at the meeting with Rubio yesterday.

A longtime U.S. official told you about Witkoff, quote, "Very few people outside the White House inner circle have worked with him. He operates as quite a lone ranger". How are we seeing that play out?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, just look at his expanding portfolios, right? He first started as the guy for the Middle East. But President Trump, according to sources we've talked to in the White House and close to Witkoff, was impressed with those early wins that he had with the ceasefire and hostage release deal.

Of course, many of that teed up by the Biden administration, but he expanded what Witkoff was in charge of. He's now the point person for Russia and the Ukraine war.

[12:35:08]

He's also, of course, the point person for Iran in the last two weeks, sitting down with the Iranian foreign minister. And we've gotten a sense of how Witkoff actually prepares for those meetings. He's not looking for these really thick briefing books that typically diplomats would look for, State Department briefings.

He looks for impromptu meetings, I'm told, sources close to Witkoff. He looks for his intelligence briefings that he has been getting increasingly so. But it's also that connectivity that he has to Trump that he really relies on to prepare for these engagements.

And that is one of the reasons that you talk to people inside the White House, you talk to people outside the White House. They're now comparing Steve Witkoff to the role that Jared Kushner once played during the first Trump administration.

BASH: Very interesting.

ATWOOD: Witkoff is able to text with family members of Trump, I'm told. He has walk-in privileges to the Oval Office. He has all of this access that other members of the Trump administration currently don't necessarily have. There are questions, though, about how effective it's going to be in leading to actual long-lasting deals here.

BASH: And Alex, you talked to several officials who, diplomats included in those, who were supportive of that Lone Ranger MO. One said, "We know he's talking for Trump", which is what you were saying, "so conversations with him are extremely valuable". But you were also reminded that he has a very steep learning curve because he has no diplomatic experience. He's a business person.

One veteran diplomat said, "On the Russia side, he is up against very experienced diplomats and operators. The concern is that you have someone who is outmatched by his counterparts, and that is not a good place to be". MARQUARDT: Yes, I mean, we spoke to people who fall on both sides. I mean, I spoke with one Middle Eastern official who said that Witkoff can be very effective because he has that direct line to Trump, and he is so focused on making these deals. But there are plenty of people who we spoke with before and during this reporting who point to some naivete and a lack of experience when it comes to the technical details.

When you look at these three portfolios, Ukraine, Gaza, and Iran, at the end of the day, if you're going to complete these deals, you have to really wade into the weeds and know the technicalities of this. And we have been told that, you know, he wants to get the ball rolling and eventually hand that off.

But there are certainly people who fear that he is up against some very formidable officials, namely in Iran and Russia, during these very complex negotiations. And there's another concern that I've heard from a number of people, both European and American officials, is that he does tend to err on the side of Putin's talking points and echo some of those when it comes to perhaps handing over these eastern territories of Ukraine to Russia, not letting Ukraine join NATO.

And these talking points, I was told by one U.S. official, it's not just in public where he said that to Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, but he's saying that also behind the scenes in senior high-level meetings with Trump officials. And that does give a lot of people pause, certainly the people who would hope that the U.S. would continue to support Ukraine.

BASH: Yes, fascinating reporting. I encourage everyone to look at it in its entirety on CNN.com.

Thanks, you both, for joining us.

We're going to take a quick break as we do. We want to show you that Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. That is Dr. Oz you're looking at. He was just sworn in. He is going to be in charge of Medicare, Social Security. And you do, of course, see RFK Jr. behind him.

We are going to take a quick break, see if Donald Trump -- President Trump, takes questions. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:43:27]

BASH: Topping our political radar, breaking news on a story, Katelyn Polantz was getting information on at the top of the hour. A federal judge just paused the Trump administration's plan to lay off most employees at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. That happened last night.

1,500 out of 1,700 CFPB workers were let go. Judge Amy Berman Jackson says she needs time to consider whether the mass firings violated an existing order blocking the dismantling of that critical agency. And Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro went back to the governor's mansion. ABC News was there. And the governor told George Stephanopoulos he heard immediately from the FBI Director, Kash Patel, the Attorney General, Pam Bondi. But he hasn't spoken to President Trump yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It needs to be universally condemned, George. I don't care if it's coming from the left, from the right. I don't care if it's coming from someone who you voted for, or someone who you didn't vote for, someone on your team or someone on the other team.

I think every single leader has a responsibility to speak and act with moral clarity and condemn this kind of violence.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ANCHOR OF ABC: Have you heard from President Trump?

SHAPIRO: I haven't.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Not at all?

SHAPIRO: No.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Now, the President did condemn the attack. He did so from the Oval Office on Monday. He said, quote, "A thing like this cannot be allowed to happen".

And 250 years since the most iconic horseback ride in American history, Paul Revere's Midnight Ride.

[12:45:02]

Now, tonight, Revere rides again. You don't have to stay up so late. At 8:00 p.m., a full celebration along the original route, starting with Revere departing his house, two lanterns hoisted at the Old North Church, and finally, the ride out of Charlestown.

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow wrote, quote, "The fate of a nation was riding that night". And just as that midnight message kicked off the American Revolution, tonight's commemoration is just the beginning of America's 250th anniversary.

Right now, President Trump is taking questions after the swearing in of Mehmet Oz to be the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Service. Let's listen in.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- you're horrible people and we're going to just take a pass. But hopefully, we won't have to do that. And Marco is right in saying it. We're getting -- we want to see it end. Think of it. Every day, a lot of people are being killed as we talk about, you know, as they play games. So we're not going to take that. And we will -- we'll see. I think we have a good chance of solving the problem, however.

Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you prepared to walk away completely from these efforts in these talks?

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say that, but we want to see it end. We want to see it end. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Vladimir Putin installing in your view, Mr. President?

TRUMP: I hope not. I'm going to let you know about that soon if he is. But I hope not. He's got a big force out there. Big force. It's a war that should have never happened. It would have never happened if I was President. That's a war -- and it didn't happen for four years.

That's a war that should have never happened. October 7th, Israel would have never happened. Iran was broke. And now we'll see what happens with Iran. We have a lot of them out there.

We have a lot of things that we're working on right now that shouldn't have happened. None of it. Ukraine would have never happened with Russia. October 7th would have never happened. So you wouldn't have had all the problems in the Middle East.

The Afghanistan embarrassment, probably the most embarrassing day in the history of our country, would have never happened. Inflation would have never happened. By the way, prices are down. Groceries are down.

Eggs, which they -- you hit me so hard. I'll never forget the first day, first week in office. They were screaming at me about eggs. I said, what's going on with eggs? They were doubling and tripling. I said, I just got here.

They were up like double, triple, and you couldn't get any. They said you won't have eggs for Easter. Well, you can have all the eggs you want. I'll tell you, Brooke Rollins, Secretary of Agriculture, did a great job.

And the egg prices are down 87 percent. But nobody talks about that. You can have all the eggs you want. We have too many eggs. In fact, if anything, the prices are getting too low. So I just want to let you know prices are down.

Gasoline yesterday in three states hit $1.98 a gallon. And it looks like it's at a level that it hasn't seen since my days, my four years. So it's about two -- I'd say maybe I think we're going to average -- we're going to be averaging $2.25 very soon.

So I just want to let you know, though, because I keep hearing about prices and inflation. Prices are coming down, not going up. Only the fake news as they're going up. The only thing that's even, our interest rates.

And if we had a Fed chairman that understood what he was doing, interest rates would be coming down, too. He should he should bring them down.

Yes, please?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, what do you need to see from both sides in order to keep negotiations going? What do you want to see from Russia and Ukraine?

TRUMP: I have to see -- my whole life has been one big negotiation. And I know when people are playing us and I know when they're not. And I have to see an enthusiasm to want to end it. And I think I see that enthusiasm. I think I see it from both sides.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Russia --

TRUMP: But you're going to know soon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Russia is playing you?

TRUMP: No, nobody's playing me. I'm trying to help. You know, this was Biden's war, by the way. By me getting involved, you know, they'll say, oh, the Trump -- this is not Trump's war. This is Biden's. This is a war that should have never happened. OK?

Think of it. Those cities are crushed and crashed and all those beautiful steeples, the most beautiful in the world, actually considered the most beautiful in the world, most of them are now smashed to smithereens, as they say, and lying on the ground in a million pieces.

Those towns are crushed. The whole place. It's so horrible. And millions of people are dead far more than you think. That's one thing you're going to get out of this war. You're going to find out that your estimates are far lower than it's far worse than people think.

Nobody's playing anybody. We are going to see if we can get it done. I think we have a really good chance of getting it done. And it's coming to a head right now.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Ukraine military?

TRUMP: Say it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you do decided to move on and take a pass, Mr. President, would you then continue to support Ukraine?

[12:50:07]

TRUMP: Well, I'm not going to say that because I think we're going to get it done.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here's a group of Venezuelan down in Texas who have been alerted. That they are soon going to be deported under the Alien Enemies Act. Have you authorized that operation?

TRUMP: I don't know about the group you're talking about. But if they're bad people, I would certainly authorize it. Yes.

You know, I won an election in a landslide. We won all seven swing states. We won by millions of votes. We won 2,750 districts to 505 districts. 2,750 to 505. That's why the map, when you look at it, is all red.

And one of the biggest reasons -- I think the biggest single reason, actually, I'd like to say it's because of this, because I think they're going to come up with things that are incredible. But probably the biggest reason was because of the border and because of illegal immigration. And the people of this country want those people out.

Because what Biden did and his -- I don't know if he did it, I'm not even sure he knows what the hell he was doing. But what his people did, representing him, was allow millions and millions of people from jails, from prisons all over the world, people from mental institutions and insane asylums, gang members, drug dealers pouring into our place.

And you know what? Our people voted for me to get them out. They want them out. They want them out. And we've done a hell of a job. And by the way, Ecuador and various places, but El Salvador, we've been helped by a lot of other states where they're helping us, actually.

Because you couldn't-- look, what this man was thinking, when they allowed open borders and people to come in, if you look at Venezuela, their crime is down by 72 percent. You know why? They took all their criminals off the street. They took all their prisoners from jail. They took murders.

11,088 murderers were released into our country. Bad things are going to happen. Bad things. And we're getting them out. And that's why I was elected. A judge wasn't elected to do that. I was elected to do that.

And we're doing it in record fashion. We have the safest border, the most secure border we've ever had. See the Declaration of Independence? You should all read that before you leave. That's the real deal. You should all read it before you leave.

Yes? Sir, go ahead, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Photos have emerged of Senator Van Hollen sipping what appears to be margaritas --

TRUMP: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- with Abrego Garcia down in El Salvador. Do you encourage other Democrats to fly down to El Salvador to meet with this illegal alien who's been accused (INAUDIBLE)?

TRUMP: I like this guy. See, now, this is the kind of a reporter we like. There aren't enough of them. We got to get some more of them. But, no, I appreciate that question.

No, look, he's a fake. I know him. I know them all. They're all fake. And they have no interest in that prisoner. That prisoner's record is unbelievably bad.

If you would go into the room, you might -- if you would, Caroline (ph), maybe go into the room and see if you can find that little slip. I wrote some things down. I don't know why you'd want to keep them.

But I just -- we got a little biography of him. Not a very innocent guy. Yes, please?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, in the spirit of Easter Sunday --

TRUMP: While we're on the subject, right? So, you're talking about Abrego Garcia. Is that the one? Yes. He's an illegal alien, MS-13 gang member, and foreign terrorist. This comes out of the State Department and very legitimate sources.

I mean, I assume. I'm reading -- I'm just giving you what they handed to me. But this was supposed to be certified stuff. In 2019, Garcia was issued a deportation order. Two separate judges affirmed Garcia was a member of MS-13, which is a gang that may be even worse than Tren de Aragua. It may be worse.

They kill people with knives because it's more painful. Very famous for the knifing and killing of two young 16-year-old girls walking to school one day, and they sliced them up into little pieces and killed them. That's MS-13.

And two separate judges affirmed, affirmed Garcia was a member of MS- 13. When Garcia was originally arrested, he was wearing a sweatshirt with rolls of money pouring out, an MS-13 gang symbol, that he was driving with two other known violent MS-13 gang members, two of the most violent members that we know of in the MS-13 gang of thugs.

In 2022, Garcia was stopped by the Tennessee Highway Patrol and was found to be transporting seven people from Texas to Maryland. And he had no driver's license. He was driving violently.

[12:55:00]

In 2020 and 2021, Garcia's wife filed for a protective order from him and said he was violent and abusive and really scary, including allegations that he punched and scratched her on the eye, left her bleeding after throwing her laptop on the floor at her, ripped her shirt, and ripped off her shorts. He then grabbed her arm, leaving very severe marks.

Garcia's wife also wrote in court, at this point, I am afraid to be close to him. I just don't want to be close. I have multiple photos and videos, how violent he can be, and all of the bruises that he's left on me.

She just didn't want to -- couldn't get anywhere near him. This is the man that the Democrats are wanting us to fly back from El Salvador to be a happily ensconced member of the USA family.

Isn't it a shame? And by the way, I've been hit pretty hard by fake shows, fake news, MSDNC in particular, where they talk about how evil I am that this man would be thrown out of our country. This man is a -- according to certified statements that we get, is a very violent person.

And they want this man to be brought back into our country, where he can be free, and to stay as a happily Maryland -- you know, a happily -- they call him the Maryland man. He's a Maryland father.

No, this is a violent person. Who they don't talk about is that wonderful angel mom who lost her daughter --

BASH: OK. As the President continues to talk, we're going to fact- check some of what he says. I, of course, want to talk about Abrego Garcia, and you're going to help us with that, Priscilla. But I do want to just say one thing. We've heard a couple of times the President talk about gas prices being $1.98 a gallon.

According to AAA, they're $3.16 a gallon right now. OK, let's talk about these statements that he said are verified about Abrego Garcia being a member of MS-13. It's a lot more complicated than that.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So, this is all in the court documents. I have reviewed the same things that I believe the President has reviewed, based off how he described them. So, real quickly, on the judges and MS-13 ties, what he's referring to there is two rulings by immigration judges when he was taken into custody by ICE, and he had been asking for bond.

Now, in that scenario, immigration judges often default to what ICE tells them. In this case, that law enforcement had a brush with Abrego Garcia at a Home Depot parking lot, and that they had made the allegation that he was tied with MS-13. The immigration judges in both of those rulings did not conclusively find that he was part of MS-13.

It did not matter for them to deny him bond. He also mentioned the domestic violence petition by his wife in 2021. I have received a statement from his wife who says that that was a difficult time in their marriage, that no marriage is perfect, and that they went to counseling after the fact.

That is, by the way, a complaint that is typically not provided to the public unless shared by the victim. This was something that was blasted out by the administration. And I will also note that the federal judge more recently here in Maryland had asked the Justice Department to provide any evidence whatsoever to substantiate that he is part of MS-13.

In her order, she says in a footnote, no evidence was provided to that effect, despite her repeated asks to put this in record, in court record, not in the public forum. But as we noted, because we're part of Inside Politics here, he was talking about how he won on immigration, and so it explains a lot as to why --

BASH: Yes.

ALVAREZ: -- he's taking on this case.

BASH: Except, I mean, obviously, he won. Immigration was part of it. But if you look at any exit poll, it was the economy, which he's definitely having trouble with.

Real quick, Alex, he did talk about Rubio's comments with regard to potentially ending negotiations or giving up on negotiations between Ukraine and Russia.

MARQUARDT: We know that the President wants to end this war. He has made that abundantly clear, and he wants to do it very quickly. And what they have certainly learned in the past 87 days, as Rubio said today, is that it's extremely complicated.

We don't know how they intend to end this war. They've talked about compromises. They've talked about territorial concessions. We do have a sense of what they think Ukraine should give up, and that's a lot of their territory.

That's a desire to join NATO. They have ruled out U.S. troops going into Ukraine. But what would Russia give up? We have not heard of anything that --

BASH: And you just heard -- forgive me, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just want, if people couldn't hear, he was asked, is Russia playing you? Which is the toughest question I've heard him ask in a little while, probably since Kaitlan was --

MARQUARDT: There certainly is a sense that Putin is playing for time, that he believes he has the upper hand, that he has the momentum, and that he can wait out the West. And what Europe and Ukrainians would like Trump to do is to convince him otherwise, and that would mean applying more pressure. And we have not yet seen a willingness by the Trump administration to do that.

BASH: OK, everybody, thank you so much. Thanks for sticking around with that breaking news. I hope that you will join me on State of the Union this Sunday. My guest include Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat of Minnesota, and the Republican Majority Whip Tom Emmer. They're both from Minnesota.

I hope to see you Sunday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Thanks for joining Inside Politics Today. CNN News Central starts right now.