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Trump Returns Home To New Blowback After Whirlwind Trip; Tonight: Trump Agenda Faces Key Vote Amid GOP Infighting; Interview With Sen. John Curtis (R-UT). Interview with Sen. John Curtis (R-UT); Top Biden Backers Distance Themselves from Past Comments. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired May 18, 2025 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[08:00:22]
MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): Culture shock. Trump returns home from a week of fanfare and promises to face legal setbacks and infighting.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): Something needs to change or you're not going to get my support.
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): They can say whatever they want, it takes 218 votes to pass the bill.
RAJU: And the president deliver a long promised deal and get his own house in order.
And fallout. Shaky new audio as Democrats face questions. Should they have done more?
Are you straight with the public?
Plus, new reporting, Kamala Harris starts making her move.
And wild card.
SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): We're not being honest.
RAJU: The senator who took Mitt Romney's place. How John Curtis is forging his own path in Trump's Washington.
INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now.
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RAJU (on camera): Good morning, and welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju. President Trump now back at the White House after a whirlwind trip to
the Arabian Peninsula, but facing new problems on his domestic agenda from the courts and from within his own party. After a trip filled with pledges of investments, that plane from Qatar and praise really at every turn, as well as a whole lot of pomp and circumstance, but no major progress on ending the conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza.
Trump now set to speak with Vladimir Putin tomorrow in a bid for a ceasefire. And this morning, his vice president, J.D. Vance, met the pope at the Vatican, also working to end that war.
Meanwhile, at home, Trump is facing slipping consumer confidence over his trade war and courts reining in his most aggressive actions on deportations.
And then there's the GOP versus GOP infighting over his, quote, big, beautiful bill that has become a bitter battle. Theres a lot to unpack this morning with my terrific panel of reporters. CNN's Jeff Zeleny, just back from the Middle East, Seung Min Kim from the "Associated Press" and Paul Kane of "The Washington Post".
Good morning to you all.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
RAJU: Jeff, do you know what time zone were in? I mean, you literally just got off the plane.
ZELENY: We're in Manu's time zone.
RAJU: Yeah, exactly, exactly, Eastern time zone. Just for the record. That was a whirlwind trip. Now, he. There was a lot that happened there. And now he's dealing with the realities at home, including a really significant phone call tomorrow with Vladimir Putin. Really, the second of this term where he's actually talking with Putin. What are you hearing?
ZELENY: Look, that was definitely the reality probably started setting in hour by hour as the president was flying back to the U.S. on Friday. But it is that phone call with Putin on Monday morning. We're told around 10:00 a.m. perhaps that could always change, but it was really hanging over this whole trip, even though the president was in the Middle East, Russia and Ukraine certainly was the at the forefront of the conversation, largely because President Trump has been teasing the idea that he alone can fix this, that he could personally mediate some type of a ceasefire.
We will see about that, because its been a frustration for the White House, almost bordering on an embarrassment for the White House, because Putin has clearly been moving the goalposts all along the way here. But I think if you sort of take a step back, the whole idea of this trip, we did get a better look at the Trump doctrine I think the second time around, and it's transactional, which is not necessarily come as a surprise.
It certainly does not come with an apology from the White House. If country after country after country, a transaction and deal making was at the center of it, but also some risk taking.
Very interesting about Syria, for example, the president meeting with the Syrian leader for the first time in 25 years, a U.S. president has met with the leader of Syria, somewhat --
RAJU: Some sanctions on Syria.
ZELENY: Easing sanctions on Syria. Congress will have something to say about that in a permanent way, but we shall see how much follow through any of this sort of has for the president, because his attention span is not always high, but domestic issues, obviously, now are going to be the lead challenge for the White House.
But this phone call on Monday will certainly lead to a meeting between Trump and Putin at some point. And that is something that the White House definitely wants to happen. He wants to try and solve Russia and Ukraine.
RAJU: Yeah, he said he was going to do it in 24 hours and obviously has not been. Its been a little bit longer than 24 hours in this presidency. What are you hearing about the significance of tomorrow's phone call?
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, clearly, I mean, president Trump has said that this is this is a conflict that only he can solve. And he had the -- to the extent that the crisis in Ukraine, certainly the crisis in Gaza had come up during his trip overseas, it was in the context of that he was basically blaming his predecessor, Joe Biden, for what had happened.
[08:05:02]
So, there's a lot of high stakes in this call. You know, Putin did not show up for those critical meetings in Turkey over the weekend, which, you know, when which led to the president kind of flirting with whether he would take a little detour on his way back to Washington. Yet --
RAJU: And Jeff would still be stuck overseas.
KIM: Exactly. I know, I know, you'd have to change your flight plans a little bit had it happen, but I want to go back to the trip a little bit and talking about just the contrast of what he did versus what other U.S. presidents have done. Obviously, when U.S. presidents go to that region, there's almost always a statement of values, a focus on human rights. And you just did not. We didn't expect that from Trump. But it is striking to see how much we didn't get that.
And I was really -- this one line from his remarks caught my eye where he told the crowd that I am not going to lecture you on how to live. I'm not going to tell you on how to govern your own affairs. It really shows this more of the hands-off approach that Trump is taking and looking at relationships in the region more, as Jeff said, as a transactional approach, this could benefit the United States economically and not so much in terms of value. RAJU: That is so interesting. There was really not much discussion
about human rights and all the rest that's happening in the Middle East. Just some of the highlights from Trump's trip overseas, you mentioned.
You're right. It was a very transactional, very economics focused about investments that were going to be made, a pledges of investments that would be made in the United States, but perhaps overshadowing all of this, of course, was that offer of that jet from the government of Qatar to the president to use as Air Force One, something that he had gotten criticism from Democrats and some Republicans as well. But he was still defending that as late as Friday night.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to say, it was a radical left story that a lot of people, including you, but you know what --
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: I asked the prime minister about, specifically, and he said, you know, he didn't understand the reaction back home. And, you know, he made that clear.
TRUMP: I think he was insulted, actually. He made -- he made a gift to help somebody that has helped them.
It's a criminal enterprise, Saudi Arabia giving $25 million. Qatar, all of these countries. You talk about women and women's rights. These are people that kill women and treat women horribly. And yet you take their money.
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RAJU: All right. There's a little flashback of what Trump said about a decade ago about Qatar and taking money from Qatar, but now very much defending it. But regardless of the perhaps inconsistency with the president's approach to the Qataris, there was criticism on both sides that he was hearing. He's calling this a radical left story. But there's real concern about the national security implications.
PAUL KANE, WASHINGTON POST SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is. There are still a lot of Republicans up on the Hill who come from a traditional -- traditional sort of Reagan, Bush conservatism who aren't very comfortable with it.
There are others who are just really uncomfortable with the idea that this -- this could be Air Force One, this plane, and therefore a foreign government with like friendly-ish ties with Hamas would be giving the U.S. president a plane for him to fly on. This is like a -- this is a movie plot, you know? This is something they come up with in Hollywood.
But ultimately, you know, the top people, the top Republicans on the Hill, Mike Johnson was being asked about all the deals that the Trump Organization is doing over there, including the plane. And his response was, whatever President Trump is doing is out in the open. They are not trying to conceal anything. So, Mike Johnson --
ZELENY: So, that makes it just fine.
KIM: Right, yeah, exactly.
ZELENY: Got it.
KANE: One of our colleagues in the in the press corps said its like a shoplifter who waves at the camera.
(LAUGHTER)
KANE: So, therefore, you're not -- it's not a crime. You did it out in the open.
And one of the bottom lines also, the president said this is a free plane. We know that that simply is not true because it has to be stripped down, basically and rewired. And it was going to cost hundreds and hundreds of million dollars, perhaps even --
RAJU: Like $400 million at least, right?
ZELENY: Exactly. I was also struck by the Qatari response. The Qatari prime minister told our Becky Anderson in an interview. He said it's an act of love to the United States. He said, were not doing anything illegal here. Well, of course the laws are sort of viewed differently in Qatar versus here.
But the president really wants this. He's told his aides he really wants this. He doesn't care about the criticism because he wants the plane after he leaves office. They say for the library. We'll see about that. But I don't think he's going to budge on this. We'll see how this --
RAJU: It could cost a lot of money, and he may not be able to use it until afterwards, which is a gift, but perhaps not legal and the like.
ZELENY: But he might need a plane afterwards.
RAJU: He might need a plane.
ZELENY: He said he won't fly on it afterward. But, you know, we may need to fact-check.
RAJU: I do want to quickly get you to weigh in segment about the news from actually from -- from last week about Trump's immigration agenda really stalled by the courts, including the Supreme Court, which ruled on Friday that Trump could not move forward with deportations under the 1798 Alien Enemies Act, for a group of migrants in northern Texas and siding with the Venezuelans who were feared they were poised for imminent removal from this sweeping wartime authority that Trump has used to try to get migrants out.
[08:10:12]
Really, it's not been used only a handful of times in this, in this country, usually during wartime.
Now that he's been blocked by the Supreme Court, what does this mean for Trump's immigration agenda?
KIM: It shows just how much the courts at every level, whether it's the district court, appellate court, and now the Supreme Court has foiled his mass deportation agenda. And there's kind of a consistent through line here. And what the judges have said, they are concerned that these migrants are not getting proper due process. That was one of the -- one of the themes that from previous decision, it was something that certainly that the Supreme Court underscored again on Friday.
If you talk to White House officials, they say, well, you know, these migrants aren't necessarily subject to the same rights that U.S. citizens are. They have gotten what they would call due process. But Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision, says certainly, they're not doing that.
RAJU: Yeah, due process seems to be an issue the courts are having with the president's policies so far. We'll see what the White House ultimately decides to do.
All right. Coming up down to the wire, House Republicans now rushing back to the capitol to try to salvage Trump's massive domestic policy bill. What sources are telling me about the state of the talks?
Plus, I chased down some key Democrats as they struggle to answer for their past comments about President Biden's health.
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RAJU: It's been an intense weekend of talks between House GOP leaders and a group of conservative hardliners who blocked President Trump's big, beautiful bill from advancing on Friday. Sources tell me that since then, talks have been moving in the hardliners' direction.
And tonight, in an extraordinarily rare Sunday night session, a key house committee will vote again to try to advance the bill. That includes a massive overhaul of the tax code and spending cuts to domestic programs.
Meantime, Trump is laying on the pressure, writing: We don't need grandstanders in the Republican Party. Stop talking and get it done.
My panel is back.
So, I talked to Ralph Norman, who is one of the Republicans who blocked this from going forward. He thinks that talks are going well right now, meaning -- suggesting that they're perhaps moving closer to what these hardliners want, among what they want, they want move up the work requirements for Medicaid, currently slated to kick in in 2029, under the Republican plan. They want it implemented much sooner. They also want to phase out the clean energy tax credits that are part
of the inflation reduction act. They want to phase that out much sooner as well, he says. They're going to have a meeting today. They're going to discuss that. Paul, what the challenge, though, is that if Speaker Johnson gives in to what these hardliners want, he's going to upset the rest of his conference or some parts of his conference.
KANE: The way they had originally sort of set up the bill. It was like getting dessert before the kids had to eat their vegetables. The tax cuts were going to come right away. People were going to see it in their -- in their withholdings. They're going to be like, wow, all right, I'm getting a bit more money.
But those spending cuts, the cuts to the clean energy, the Biden Democratic clean energy agenda from last term, some of those things were not really going to hit until 2029, after Trump had left office. Some of the cuts to Medicaid were coming later.
And the Freedom Caucus wants that to happen. At the same time, they want to force people to eat vegetables at the same time they're eating dessert. Basically, to make this as simple as possible. And that is going to that upsets the more moderate swing district Republicans who are trying to not run into this gantlet of a midterm election in which they have a right now unpopular president at the top of their ticket.
RAJU: Yeah, and some of these things have job implications in their districts. You said there are 12 more moderate Republicans calling to keep those so-called clean energy tax credits in place. They are urging them not to do what the Freedom Caucus is demanding, that the speaker and the Republican leadership should do.
And then there's also this issue about state and local tax deductions. There are these group of mostly New York Republicans demanding to increase the cap about the amount that people can deduct from their taxes on the so-called SALT issue. But if you do that, that could increase the deficit even further under this massive bill. And that's sparking major blowback on the right.
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REP. ERIC BURLISON (R-MO): I've made it very clear that I'm not going to grow the deficit. I came up here to fix the deficit.
ROY: I am a no on this bill unless serious reforms are made.
REP. NICK LALOTA (R-NY): I'm a hell no right now. That hasn't changed. We're far from a fix on SALT. So still nowhere close to a yes on this thing.
LAWLER: They all understood going into this that SALT needed to be addressed. And the fact of the matter is, whether they like it or not, we have a five-seat majority, and the seats that gave us the majority are seats in California and New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KIM: Yeah, I find that last point so fascinating because so much of the way that House Republicans operate when things are so when policy debates are so contentious, they usually do veer a lot towards the hardliners.
And in contrast with Nancy Pelosi, she was always focused on those majority makers, what those moderates wanted, because like we said, they are the majority makers. The same point that Mike Lawler is making there, that we were the ones that made Mike Johnson speaker. We were the ones that gave control of the House. You guys should listen to us.
But right now, it looks like the debate is veering towards the other direction. I mean, I thought there was a comment from Nick LaLota yesterday, one of those New York Republicans, and he said, why don't we raise that top rate for wealthy individuals and couples to get money to raise that deduction on state and local taxes?
[08:20:00]
And he was pilloried by traditional Republicans for daring to raise taxes, even on the rich. So, it's just this really, really thin -- this needle that I just don't -- I don't know how it's going to get resolved.
RAJU: Yeah, it's very unclear yet. I mean, Trump obviously hopes these guys cave at the end of the day, which they have done from for most of his agenda.
ZELENY: I mean, the White House, the legislative affairs office of the White House has been focusing on this. The president really has not until now. I mean, he is focusing on it now.
So, if past is prologue, over the last couple of months, he has brought people in and he, you know, has been a pretty tough on individual members and they have caved. I mean, we have been kind of watching all along at every kind of juncture here. The Trump side has prevailed.
So, this again is the biggest test of his agenda. But obviously, it's only one half of the story. Yeah. Never mind the senate which is a completely different.
RAJU: And this is a perfect segue there. Senators that I spoke to last week that made it very clear they're not happy either. They think it does not cut enough or they're concerned it cuts too much.
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SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I don't think -- I don't think people voted for President. Trump thought that we would continue spending at President Biden's levels.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): My objection is still raising the debt ceiling by either $4 trillion or $5 trillion. I think what that does is basically show that conservatives and Republicans aren't concerned with the deficit.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): That, you know, I've been very wary of cutting Medicaid.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): It is wrong to cut healthcare for the working poor, and that's what we're talking about here with Medicaid. My state is a Medicaid expansion state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So you have Josh Hawley and Susan Collins aligned on the issue of concerns about Medicaid cuts.
And then you have the folks on the right who want deeper cuts.
KANE: Look, there is a game here that's been played in Washington for many, many, many decades. And it's called the Senate jams the House.
They are going to try to placate the Chip Roy faction, the far-right Freedom Caucus types in the House and get them to pass something in the House. They're going to hand it off to the Senate if they can get that far, and the Senate is going to write the bill the way they can write the bill to get at least 50 votes and have J.D. Vance break the tie if they need to, and then they're going to stuff it into the House and say, you have to pass this or else.
And it all becomes this process fight of like, well, we have to pass this now. We have to pass this by July 4th. We have to make sure that we don't default on the debt ceiling.
And so you're going to have this, this process fight that happens all the time in Congress with these trifecta majorities. And it will be ugly.
ZELENY: If this is going to really determine the success or failure of the Trump presidency. For all the times he has signed his name on executive orders, they are meaningless compared to the legislation that he will sign to extend tax cuts or otherwise. So, this is very important for the White House. They realize this.
What happens now in congress is going to set the course for the rest of his term.
RAJU: Yeah, and look, and part of all this too, included in this is to raise the national debt limit. They have to do that by the August recess. Or it could be the first ever default. So, time is ticking and unclear how it ultimately gets sorted out.
All right. Next, my exclusive interview with the man who replaced Mitt Romney in the Senate, Republican John Curtis. What he's saying about Trump and the direction of the GOP.
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RAJU: You talk about speaking candidly to the American public. What of -- what of what he has done has caused you the most concern? (END VIDEO CLIP)
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[08:27:58]
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SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): The way I see it, the odds of Congress delivering real results for the American people go up dramatically when we start telling each other the truth, not just behind closed doors, but out in the open, where the public can see what I believe is their right to know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: That was Utah's newest senator, Republican John Curtis, delivering his first ever speech on the Senate floor this week.
Curtis replaced Mitt Romney, who voted to convict Donald Trump twice.
While the freshman and former House member aligns with Trump on most issues, some are causing him concern, like the GOP's resistance to targeting Medicare and Social Security.
I sat down exclusively with Curtis just after he gave that speech.
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RAJU: One of the big things you talked about was telling the truth, telling the truth to the American public. So, when you look at this place, you look at Republicans and Democrats, what issues are they not telling the truth about to the American public.
CURTIS: When it comes to debt and deficit, we're not being honest. And we're equally not being honest when we weaponize fear. And as if somehow, we're going to take away the benefits from our vulnerable, our seniors -- we're not.
And taking and reforming these programs doesn't mean that we have to take those away. It never has, and it never will. We can make decisions now, or we'll have to enact drastic, draconian cuts later.
And I want to make them now because they'll have less impact on those who are really most vulnerable.
RAJU: We're talking about the big, beautiful bill in the House. You're very concerned about the debt and deficit. It's possible -- some projections suggest this could add trillions and more to the debt, maybe up to $5 trillion or more to the debt.
Could you stomach something like that?
CURTIS: The debt? No, right. And nor do I --
RAJU: Or a bill that does -- that adds that much? CURTIS: Yeah. And I think not only myself, but a number of us in the Senate have been very clear, right? We have to reduce the deficit. And quite frankly, the numbers we're talking about are small fractions of what we really need to be taking a look at as a country.
RAJU: But it's fair to say you want some serious changes to this House bill.
CURTIS: Yes, $2 trillion more per year. Right? We don't do that in Utah. It's not the way we run our government there. It's not the way we run our families. It's not the way we run our businesses.
RAJU: Trump has taken a lot of controversial actions, some of which you may support, some of which maybe you don't support. You talk about speaking candidly to the American public. What if -- what of what he has done has caused you the most concern?
CURTIS: If we're not careful, we'll destroy small businesses with tariffs. And I understand you have to -- you have to play the long game with President Trump and tariffs. And I'm not one to step in and outguess his negotiating style or technique.
But I do think we have to be very, very careful with our small businesses, particularly when it comes to these tariffs.
I think I've been very clear on where I feel about Ukraine and President Zelenskyy and that -- that Putin is not our friend. I've been very clear about that. But I think we should flip the coin and maybe that's where you're going next.
It's remarkable what's happened at the border.
We saw an incredible inflation report a couple of days ago.
We're seeing some stability internationally that -- that I credit President Trump with.
And so there's clearly two sides to this.
RAJU: Given the concerns with small businesses, should he pull back from the tariff policy?
CURTIS: Well, you know we've seen a huge pullback in a number of areas. I think --
(CROSSTALKING)
RAJU: But not you know, there's still across the board.
(CROSSTALKING)
CURTIS: Yes. I think what -- what small businesses would ask for even more is consistency.
RAJU: What about the possibility or the offer of a luxury jet that he may get from Qatar? CURTIS: So I will just tell you my experience. As an elected official,
I have found it is best to avoid even the very appearance of being in a bad place.
And I can't speak for President Trump, but I can speak for me as personal experience. Being here in the Senate is we're judged very harshly when we step out of bounds.
And I just know for me personally, after being here very, very long at all, I'm staying as far away from anything that even looks like it's improper.
RAJU: So given that, do you think he should turn this down?
CURTIS: Well, I'm not sure he's going to call and ask me for my advice.
RAJU: Hey, you can give it to him yourself.
CURTIS: I can tell you how I feel about it.
RAJU: Yes.
Among the things I'm wondering if you have concerns about, there's also talk about potentially suspending habeas corpus. How do you feel about that?
CURTIS: Listen, as I understand it, this is something the administration would bring to Congress, and we would have to accept. So first of all --
RAJU: You don't think he could do this administratively?
(CROSSTALKING)
CURTIS: I think as I understand the Constitution, this comes to Congress, right? So, president, bring me your case. Make a case to me.
But I will tell you, as I judge that case, I'm going to be thinking in my mind, well, what if this is a Democrat president coming after something that I think is important?
RAJU: So if he does not come to Congress, you would have a problem with that.
CURTIS: I'm just going to say, as I understand my role in Congress, he should bring it to us.
RAJU: You talked about how Congress, quote, outsources lawmaking to the executive branch. What about Elon Musk and DOGE, the way that they have shuttered federal agencies like USAID, cut programs without the consent of Congress?
CURTIS: Look, if you and I had an hour, we could talk about how Congress has abdicated our responsibility. And budgeting has opened the door for Elon Musk to come in because we haven't done our job. We should be doing this. We should be making these hard decisions.
RAJU: But do you think that what they've done is ok, the way that DOGE has come in and Musk has come in and dealt with USAID, shuttered USAID in particular?
CURTIS: We need to cut. And I talked about over and over again, like we're spending $2 trillion. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion. That doesn't mean when we're letting a federal employee go that we shouldn't be thoughtful about -- perhaps that's the worst day of their life. And I think that was one of the problems with DOGE is it lacked what people saw as compassion and thoughtfulness.
And I do think we need to make cuts. And I think DOGE has opened the door, opened our eyes to some doors that are very problematic.
But having run a business, having been mayor, I know this goes over a lot better if you have a dose of compassion when you're doing it.
RAJU: In this age of politics in your party, the party very much the party of Trump. You occupy a unique space within that party. I'm wondering, do you -- is it possible to be independent in the GOP in this era of Trump?
CURTIS: Listen, I actually think we serve the president best when we -- when we do act and function more like a board of directors.
And let me tell you what I mean by that.
[08:34:48]
CURTIS: You wouldn't want a board of directors to rubber stamp the president of a company, right? We do our job best when we tell President Trump what we see, what we think, what we feel.
We're another set of eyes for him and a set of hands. And I really think the best way to make President Trump successful is to let him know when we disagree.
(CROSSTALKING)
RAJU: Do you think he can accept that? I mean, people who have spoken out against him have been drummed out of the party.
CURTIS: Yes, I think there's -- I think that's a stereotype. But I think you can also see in President Trump that he does respect people who -- the right way, the right time, the right place. You know, if I -- if I send out a mean, nasty tweet, of course, that's not received well.
But if I have a thoughtful conversation with the administration about how I see something, I hope and trust that he actually values that as somebody who wants to help him.
RAJU: We talked about -- you talk about energy in your speech --
CURTIS: Yes. RAJU: -- the importance of clean energy. You don't hear that a lot from Republicans these days. There are provisions in the big, beautiful bill to phase out these clean energy tax credits that are part of the Inflation Reduction Act.
You wrote a letter -- signed onto a letter raising concerns about going down this route. Could you support a bill that phases out these tax credits?
CURTIS: There are some provisions in the IRA that I feel like are actually Republican priorities. Carbon sequestration, nuclear. And so I've simply urged my fellow Republicans to be thoughtful and to not come in with a sledgehammer, but to come in with a scalpel.
RAJU: Are you an environmentalist?
CURTIS: Well, I care deeply about leaving the earth better than I found it. How's that?
RAJU: You talked about how you visited the African-American museum here on the Mall.
CURTIS: Yes. So touched with that.
MARQUARDT: You said it, quote, "reaffirms something I deeply believe that as long as bigotry, discrimination, unfair treatment still exists, we cannot claim to be united."
But President Trump has signed an order that targets, quote, "improper ideology" at the Smithsonian and this museum specifically was targeted. Do you agree with that approach?
CURTIS: The reality of it is we do need to focus on discrimination. We do need to focus on bigotry. And I think a reset is really important where somebody is not a bad person if they don't know how to talk about this. And I think we really got to the point where you felt uncomfortable if you just didn't even know how to talk about this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU: All right. Coming up for us, how 2028 hopefuls and top Democrats are handling new details about Biden's condition.
Plus, what's next for Vice President Harris new CNN reporting on her imminent decision.
[08:37:23]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What was happening, though once Beau died (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: That was the audio obtained by Axios of President Biden meeting with special counsel Robert Hur, having trouble remembering when his son Beau died.
Now, ahead of the release of the book "Original Sin" by Jake Tapper and Axios' Alex Thompson, some of Biden's strongest surrogates are confronting questions about how they defended the then-president's condition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): I do not. Believe that Joe Biden has a problem leading for the next four years because he's done a great job of leading for the last three and a half years.
RAJU: Was he capable to run again?
CLYBURN: I have no idea. Ok. I don't have a medical degree.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): I have not seen evidence that our president is not up to the task of running for and continuing to serve as president.
The average American thought that the two candidates who ran for president for most of last year were both too old to serve. Clearly, that was a concern on the minds of most Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: All right. My panel is back.
How much fallout is there going to be for Democrats?
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there has to be a reckoning among Democrats, particularly if you are ones who want to run for future office, which is why it's not a coincidence that you've seen the most pointed comments about how the party handled the 2024 election, and how Team Biden handled 2024, from the likes of Ro Khanna and Chris Murphy, who are certainly eyeing national bids.
I do also find it interesting -- I mean, this is a case where the Democrats weren't listening to voters. I went back to my own reporting. Some of the polling that AP had done. Even as back as, you know, Spring 2023, there were voters who were raising concerns that he was too old. And Democrats just didn't think that was a problem until it was too late.
So I think there's going to be a lot of reckoning for future cycles.
RAJU: Yes.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, they were -- the whole idea of Biden being too old was a story line, but it was one that the Biden aides were able to hide behind.
It wasn't his age, it was his condition. KIM: Right.
ZELENY: And we could see it happening in real time. But overall, it was a misreading of the election results in 2022. They thought they won because of Biden, clearly not true. He was ill served by his advisers, we know.
Going forward here. I think Biden is going to be a part -- how you respond to this is going to be part of the early primary for 2028.
RAJU: Yes.
ZELENY: And Pete Buttigieg, for example, has already been out in Iowa sort of answering this fairly bluntly, you know. And he was a member of Biden's cabinet.
But being a member of Biden's cabinet, that does not give you any more of a window into him because Biden didn't have cabinet meetings --
RAJU: Yes.
ZELENY: -- and he didn't talk to senators. It was the most cloistered presidency because of his advisers and Jill Biden.
RAJU: Yes, exactly.
ZELENY: So all of this, you know, as we see from the headlines.
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[08:44:49]
RAJU: Yes. I was just about to say that. Chris Murphy says, quote, "no doubt" Biden suffered cognitive decline while in office. And you're seeing everyone having sort of a different approach. Some more pointed than others, including on the Hill, including Democratic leaders and what they said at the time.
And some actually believe that their party is suffering a backlash because of the way they handled Joe Biden.
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RAJU: Do you think the Democrats -- the White House at the time -- were straightforward to the American public about Joe Biden's condition?
REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): No, they weren't. Ok. And I think that's one of the reasons why we lost. I think that the base of the party and American people out there are upset that we let ourselves get into this situation.
And so, no, they weren't -- or they weren't honest.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): You know, he had good days and bad and -- but like it's yesterday's story. REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: We've seen Special
election after special election after special election. The voters are saying we support the Democratic vision for the United States of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So you have one side. You have Jared Moskowitz saying that the Democrats were not honest and they're suffering backlash. And the other side, you have the Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, saying, we've done better in special elections than you guys thought. We've won races. Voters don't care.
PAUL KANE, WASHINGTON POST SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He might be right. The reality is this was -- this is people are trying to make this into a media scandal, that we somehow ignored this.
We tried covering this. We wrote about this. You were at the White House. I was on the Hill. I spoke extensively to Chris Murphy a little over a year ago about this.
I remember being one of the first reporters to talk to Ro Khanna the morning after that fateful debate on CNN. They were defending him publicly.
And look, I can't go into what was said off the record, but off the record, I wasn't getting much different reaction from the Democrats on Capitol Hill.
And ultimately they have to figure out how they're going to deal with this. We were trying. And look, the only reason were getting all of these details now is because Democrats lost.
RAJU: Yes.
KIM: Right.
RAJU: And look, and there's -- we talk about the views of the Democratic Party. One poll about the optimistic about the future of the Democratic Party -- among Democrats, 35 percent, just 35 percent are optimistic. Those are Democratic voters. That is down 22 points from a year before.
ZELENY: The party will only come out of the wilderness, given some time and the rise of whoever we shall see. Back during this point in the second term of the Bush administration, very similar Democrats were down on their luck after John Kerry just lost. And then suddenly the rise of Barack Obama happened.
And Hillary Clinton there was a very contentious primary. But this will only be fought out during a primary in 2027, 2028.
Until then, if Biden stays engaged, it's going to be the same old story line, backward looking than forward looking. But he bears the blame of this and his party that followed along with him.
RAJU: Yes, and how they answer will be, of course, a question that these contenders will have to answer.
All right. Still ahead, brand new reporting on former Vice President Kamala Harris. Is she prepping for another run?
[08:47:56]
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RAJU: New this morning, former Vice President Kamala Harris moving closer to her next big decision. CNN's Isaac Dovere has a brand-new article out this morning with fresh details about Harris and a possible run for California governor to replace Gavin Newsom, who is term limited.
Lucky for us, Isaac is here with us in studio. Isaac, good morning.
ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Good morning.
RAJU: Thanks for being here. What are you learning from your reporting?
DOVERE: Well, look, this is a crossroads for Kamala Harris. It's also a crossroads for California. There is a lot of speculation she might try to run for president again.
But the governor's race is looming large for her. There is an expectation that she will get to running and that that would come over the summer, probably with an announcement late summer, maybe right after Labor Day.
But we'll see. She may still decide not to do it and -- or not to do anything at all.
RAJU: So late summer, around -- that's probably the time frame that we're thinking about here. But if she does get in, she could face -- could face a primary, a rather crowded primary field. How does that shake out?
DOVERE: Well, look, there are a bunch of candidates who are running, some well-known names, some not as well-known names, but none of them of the stature and profile that Harris has.
And among the candidates who are running, there is this sort of game going on where a little while ago they were saying, if she ran, then I'd probably get out or --
But some of that has now shifted. Antonio Villaraigosa, the former Los Angeles mayor who's running, told me that he feels like it's the quote, "height of arrogance" that Harris is deciding whether to run for governor or for president.
You see that frustration building that if she comes in, she probably would, at least initially, bigfoot a lot of people out of the race.
RAJU: So where does the 2028 decision come for her? Is she considering that at all? And what about the Biden of it all, particularly as we've seen all the reports about Biden and how she's dealt with it? Has she talked to him? What are you hearing about their conversations as well?
DOVERE: They have been speaking somewhat regularly, and as reported in the article, she's got a book that she's got to finish herself. And one of the questions that she is facing is how she talks about Biden and what she says about him and about the race and all these things. This is complicated stuff.
RAJU: She may reveal some details of that interaction.
DOVERE: I mean, I -- we'll see what she does, but this is all, as you said, coming as it's not just her decision about 2028, it's other Democrats thinking about what to do here relates to her.
[08:54:47]
DOVERE: She is leading in those -- a lot of those early polls, a lot of that's name recognition obviously. But that is up against the situation she's looking at in California, which is a really difficult moment for the state.
Huge budget shortfalls that Newsom said this week are coming. Lots of problems still with the rebuilding of those L.A. fires, the film industry, all this stuff.
And she has to think about whether she wants to take on that task and actually whether the enormity of that task makes it the California governor is actually not a step down. But coming back home essentially to help the state get through this huge moment for her.
RAJU: Yes. And if she decides to run in 2028, that's another crowded primary field that she will absolutely face. And people are not bowing out for her potential to run.
Isaac, thanks for sharing your reporting. Great stuff as always.
All right.
That's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju, follow the show @INSIDEPOLITICS and follow me on Instagram @manu_raju. If you ever miss an episode, you could catch up wherever you get your podcasts and search for INSIDE POLITICS.
Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH. Jake's guests include Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, Congressman James Clyburn, as well as David Axelrod and Van Jones.
Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.
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