Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Trump Tells House Republicans To End Squabbling, Pass Bill; Gop Rep. Lawler: "I Am Not Buckling" On SALT; Dem Rep. McIver Charged With Assault After ICE Center Clash; Rep. McIver Blames ICE Agent For Causing Confrontation. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 20, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, the pressure play. President Trump went to Capitol Hill to push House Republicans who were fighting amongst themselves about the president's sprawling bill to cut taxes and slash spending, nothing short of the entire Trump legislative agenda hangs in the balance.

Plus, a Democratic congresswoman is facing federal assault charges after a brawl outside an ICE detention center. Is the case purely political, as she claims it was brought by President Trump's former lawyer turned acting U.S. attorney.

And Pete Buttigieg would be a top tier 2028 candidate if he chooses to run for president. Does his husband chasten want him back in the presidential arena? He's my guest this hour.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

And we start on Capitol Hill, where President Trump just delivered a blunt message to Republicans on both wings of his House Republican conference, looking to change the massive domestic policy bill. He says, stop talking and start voting, and that is according to sources in the room. Now, after the meeting, President Trump appeared confident that he would get his way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think we have unbelievable unity. I think we're going to get everything we want, and I think we're going to have a great victory. I think it was a really great -- that was a meeting of love. Let me tell you, that was love in that room. There was no shouting. I think it was a meeting of love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That is not exactly the way people in the room with him, many of them characterized it. I want to get right to CNN's Manu Raju, who has been chasing lawmakers all morning long. What are you hearing, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is still a lot of division. In fact, there are -- is opposition from some of the more conservative members and some of the more moderate members. And at the moment, Donald Trump does not have the votes to get this passed well. So, something will have to change between now and that critical vote that could come as soon as Thursday to get this out of the House. There's a procedural vote before that as well, question about that, but there's also opposition from those hard liners who want deeper cuts to spending.

Warren Davidson is one of them. I just caught up with him just moments ago. He's one of those conservatives who said that he's still a no on this bill. And then there's a group of more moderate members who one are concerned about the cuts and demands of those hardliners are making, whether it's on Medicaid or rolling back those green energy tax credits that they say are important to their district, but also their push to increase the amount that individuals can deduct of this -- from the state and local taxes they pay.

That is particularly important from a -- from a block of New York Republicans who say that that must go up. There must be more relief for their constituents, or they say they plan to vote against it. One of those Republicans is Nick LaLota of New York, who I caught up with immediately afterwards, after the Trump meeting. And I asked him if he is a yes, yet. He made clear, he still, at the moment, plans to vote no, because he says the offer on the table is insufficient.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NICK LALOTA (R-NY): I hope the president's presence here today motivates some folks in the Ways and Means Committee and my leadership to give us a number to which we can actually say yes.

RAJU: You sound pretty frustrated -- you sound pretty frustrated right now.

LALOTA: I'm fired up. Manu.

RAJU: He didn't want to negotiate. He said, we're done negotiating with you guys. Did he not?

LALOTA: What? I took that is, hey, everybody figured it out. Everybody get in a room and figure it out for the country and for your district. That's what I took from it. And I hope that my leadership took that message away as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And the math is the real problem, Dana, because, as you know, on any straight party line vote in the House, representatives, the speaker can only afford to lose three Republican votes, and there are more than three Republicans who probably at the moment, are saying that they plan to vote no.

And the other issue is that if Johnson were to cut a deal with those more moderate members give them more relief on the tax issue that they are demanding, then that could increase the price tag, that could increase the deficit and that could increase more opposition on the right flank of his conference.

So, such a complicated balancing act for the speaker right now, who now is in his office, holed up, trying to get a deal, get this across the finish line, but the president, despite his happy talk, a lot of tension in the ranks in the republican conference. Dana?

[12:05:00]

BASH: I mean, you could feel it through the screen. There's no question about it, where you are in those hallways. Manu, thank you so much. And I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters here at the table today. CNN's John Berman, Abby Livingston of Puck, Shane Goldmacher of the New York Times, and CNN's Brian Stelter.

Abby, I know that you cover Congress for Puck. I'm going to start with you and just pick up where Manu left off on the so-called SALT caucus. These are, tend to be more of the moderate lawmakers. Some of them maybe are more conservative, but they represent blue states, and in many instances swing districts.

I was told that this SALT caucus went to the House speaker during the meeting and said, point blank, we are still a no. And Mike Lawler, who is a leader of that movement, maybe one of the most kind of on the bubble when it comes to his politics in his district, he said to me, I'm not budging.

ABBY LIVINGSTON, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: I mean, we are in a moment, and moderates of this ilk tend to be the ones who cave on these sorts of bills, and we are just seeing their spine possibly grow stronger. But what we often see whether it was the speaker's vote or many of these other difficult whips for the speaker and the president, is we see a lot of brazen comments, and then these members get on the phone with Trump, and then suddenly their mood changes.

So, this is an extremely difficult puzzle. And I think one thing to consider is this is Trump's big legacy bill on the legislative end, but this is also a political project of establishing dominance over the Republican Party on Capitol Hill, and this is the ultimate test because he's making them vote against their political interests.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: If this time is different, though, it's because they need SALT to live. Look, humans need SALT to live. It's true. Look it up. And these vulnerable House Republicans need SALT to live. They've been promising this relief for years. Donald Trump promised --

BASH: -- somebody who wants his television in a blue state

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: No, it sounds like, I'm out myself as a proud New Jersey resident. All of my neighbors they are one issue voters. This is the only issue they care about. They've been promised relief for years. Donald Trump promised relief when he went to Long Island last year. And if they backtrack, if these vulnerable Republicans lose on this issue, if they do give in, if they cave, a lot of voters remember that a year from now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN NEWS CENTRAL: The next time that moderates stand up will be the first time, right? That's the thing here, as everyone has noticed. And I want to disparage moderate -- moderates here, because, you know, I don't want to come after me with representation, but bottom line is, I hear that they tend to buckle in these negotiations when push comes to shove.

The wild card here, though, as Brian was alluding to, is people like Mike Lawler, who is my congressman in New York 17. He wants more than to be a congressman. He wants to expand his power. He may want to run for governor. And one way you do that, if you want to win in a blue state, if you're a Republican, is you buck the president a little bit, and maybe you got garner support among independents.

BASH: Oh, that's an interesting point. Let's actually listen while we're on the topic of SALT. And I love that you need soft SALT to live, Brian.

STELTER: Look it up.

BASH: Let's listen to specifically what the president said after this meeting on this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, SALT is a very interesting thing, because the governors of New York and Illinois, you know, the big J.B. is going nowhere, probably right now, he couldn't be the worst governor in the country, but Illinois and Gavin Newsom, those are the people that want this, and they're Democrat states. They're all Democrat states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was actually before going into the meeting, so he's focused on the blue states and the governors. But the thing that just particularly for the politics of this and the raw math, it's the Republican districts, or Republican held districts within those blue states, particularly in New York --

SHANE GOLDMACHER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: That's what's giving them the majority.

BASH: They gave them the majority. The Mike Lawler, the Nick LaLota, who Manu was talking about, those members are the reason why Mike Johnson holds the gavel and that this is even possible in the first place.

GOLDMACHER: I mean, this is the tension in the Republican conference, which is the vast majority of the party is not aligned with this small block of moderates. But it is that small block in California, in New York, in New Jersey, that have given Republicans this narrow majority. And so, the risk for Trump, who is actually really keenly aware of that this time, unlike his first presidency, is he doesn't want to lose those people, but he also doesn't care about the issue that they care about, right? He created the law that they're trying to pull back --

BASH: And he moved to Florida.

STELTER: He moved to Florida.

GOLDMACHER: And so, he's not subject to it, right? He's been on every side of the SALT issue, right? He signed the initial law. He said he would repeal it, and now he's attacking it as a giveaway to blue state. So, he's been all over this.

BASH: I just want to get back to what you sort of alluded to earlier, which is beyond the specifics. This is about a moment in time and about where the party is right now, because one of the hallmarks of Trump 2.0 so far has been, everybody caving to Trump on pretty much everything within his party.

[12:10:00]

And so, the question is whether this is going to be different. So, it's a legacy issue because this is his legislative agenda. And of course, the policy -- potential policy problem of it doesn't happen, taxes will go up, but it's also a power issue.

LIVINGSTON: So, I mean, what's in the background of this is he's basically implicitly promising to go after these members in the primary before they can even get to the general election, and also just on the SALT issue. Additionally, they may be putting seats in play that weren't even competitive before two weeks ago.

And so, this is -- I think one thing don't think about this long term is if he loses the House over this, whether or not they comply, that means subpoena power for Democrats. So, there's a long-term outlook on this that it seems to me that the Republicans are day trading on this, just trying to get through each day rather than thinking long term.

BERMAN: Look, you're talking about power. Two other piece here. I mean, this was not a policy pitch that the president made behind closed doors. This was personal. And there are Republicans. I was interested in that Monu talked to Warren Davidson, of the way because I talked to Warren Davidson this morning, who told me he was a no, this morning on where things stand because he cares about the policy.

And I said, well, what if Donald Trump leans on you and says, hey, buddy, Warren, I need you with me. And he said, look, if they don't change the policy in here, then I'm still a no. And he's, of course, a conservative who wants there to be more cuts to Medicaid or more trims or reductions in spending, he would say, but look, I'm not sure how he wins them if they stick to their guns in the policy.

BASH: So, we've been talking a lot about the SALT issue, but there are so many other variables, including the people on the policy. Warren Davidson is one of them who doesn't want to add more to the debt and the deficit. And you know, we have these numbers just as a reminder, the last time Donald Trump was president, the debt and deficit got a lot worse. Now, to be fair, at the end of his first term, it was COVID. So, if you can see the numbers there, it wasn't great, and in large part it's because on this issue, his party didn't push back enough when he was focused on issues other than cutting the debt and deficit.

GOLDMACHER: I mean, Donald Trump has not been fiscally conservative, right? He butted heads in that first term with Paul Ryan, whose entire agenda was cutting back entitlements. Trump has taken that off the table as best as he can. He doesn't want to touch the most popular parts of government. If he's going to cut things, he wants it to be unpopular.

STELTER: I would argue, though, that Trump has the best slogans. You know, nobody else has the slogans like he does about tax cuts. Most of the numbers he states are overstated or made up. He even said gas prices are $1.99 again, today. That's still a lie, but the numbers are powerful to people who are not otherwise paying attention. His slogans are winning in many of these arguments.

BASH: Yeah, that's an important point. All right, everybody stand by. When we come back, a Democratic member of Congress is facing federal assault charges after this chaotic scene outside a New Jersey ice facility a couple of weeks ago. We're going to have the details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Democratic Congresswoman LaMonica McIver says, she will fight federal assault charges brought yesterday by New Jersey's top prosecutor, a former personal lawyer for President Trump. Acting U.S. attorney Alina Habba says, McIver, quote, assaulted, impeded and interfered with law enforcement. An issue is a chaotic scene this month at a Newark ICE facility. McIver told CNN this morning that federal agents were responsible for this conflict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LAMONICA MCIVER (D-NJ): I think the charges are absurd. You know, it's ridiculous. I was there to do my job along with my other colleagues. We have done this before. This is our obligation to do. It's in our job description to have oversight over a facility, and the entire situation was escalated by ICE. They caused the confrontation. Homeland came and, you know, caused this chaos that we see was a very tense situation, but it could have been, you know, easily not -- it could have easily not happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN's Omar Jimenez has been digging into the footage of the incident that this is referring to, and you see him there now. Omar, help us understand what exactly happened. OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So, this happened in a few different stages here. As the congresswoman mentioned, it actually started with members of the New Jersey delegation coming to try and inspect this privately operated federal immigration facility in Newark.

Now, what you're seeing on camera right now is the mayor of Newark tried to essentially be a part of that visit. And so that mayor, you see him in the hat there, the black hat. He's being told by law enforcement on the private side of the fence that he needs to leave, or he will be placed under arrest because he's not a member. He's not a Congress member, essentially. Now he eventually did leave, but that is when officers tried to initiate an arrest.

I want to go to the next video here because when he walked back out into is essentially a protest over the existence of this privately operated immigration facility. So, in the circle here, you see Congresswoman McIver, who is next to the mayor there. And as she's next to him, the mayor is then taken into custody by Homeland Security investigation officials there.

[12:20:00]

She is starting to push a little bit to try and get towards the mayor again in pursuit of that mayor. And these are some of the critical moments here, because she's being charged with assault here, but there's a lot of pushing and shoving going back and forth in this moment here, again as she clearly was trying to get toward the mayor himself.

Now the mayor was eventually charged with trespass, but then those charges were dropped, and then now we've learned of these new charges levied against McIver. And I want to go up to the body camera footage here as well, because you get really a close up view here. So, she's still in the red.

You see her sort of the shoving, a little bit of back and forth, sort of using her body a bit. That is what the government is alleging is assault. So, it's clearly a chaotic scene, and I feel a little bit like a referee judging where the contact is and where it isn't, but clearly there is contact back and forth.

The question, though, is, does it actually constitute criminal charge? The government acting U.S. Attorney Alina Habba clearly thinks so, and it's why we've seen two counts levied against this congresswoman. But as we've heard from the congresswoman, she believes that these are nothing, but political charges levied against her that the complaint at least mischaracterizes her actions that day.

But clearly there was -- there were a number of things that sort of led into another, and the congresswoman was there for a tour of that facility. I should mention she and the other two members of the congressional delegation did eventually tour the facility but not until long after this played out, Dana?

BASH: That's right. Omar, thank you so much for breaking that down. It's really important to see the footage. My panel is back. And John Berman, the Congresswoman McIver, was on your program this morning.

A couple of Sundays ago, I interviewed the three of them. It was just after the incident happened, and they have a very lengthy argument, including what Omar just mentioned at the end there, which is that they were just trying to do their job to oversee -- oversight responsibility as members of Congress to oversee this ICE facility and then it got out of hand.

BERMAN: There's a legal reason they keep on referencing that because the Speech and Debate Clause could cover many activities that take place by a member of Congress. Now, I doubt it would cover assault, physically assaulting a police officer, but people are going to need to interpret that video, how they will or in courts, we'll have to look at it also.

But look, for all the talk. Now Donald Trump ran on removing lawfare from the federal -- from the federal courts, stopping political prosecutions. But it's somewhat Orwellian (Ph), right? Because since he's taken office, again and again and again, we have seen prosecutions against really just Democratic politicians, right?

There's none of this. Remember Chris Collins who was a Republican congressman from upstate, who was charged during the first Trump administration. Republicans were targeted, just as Democrats were with some of these federal prosecutions. Right now, you're really only seeing Democrats or people who have opposed the president be targeted.

BASH: And I want to talk about that in one second, because the justice department made a change to potentially make that easier. But on this particular issue, the president was asked about this this morning. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The days of woke are over. That woman, I have no idea who she is. That woman was out of control. She was shoving federal agents. She was out of control. The days of that crap are over in this country, we're going to have law and order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLDMACHER: I mean, I think we should talk about who's doing the prosecuting here, which is not just the acting U.S. Attorney Alina Habba, not just Trump's former lawyer. She was a top campaign surrogate, right? I was at Trump rallies last year where she was welcomed with raucous supplies, delivering political lines. That was her role, to be a political attack dog for Donald Trump. And now she is in a position of law enforcement authority, and she's also the person bringing the charges. I think that is going to color people's views of these cases.

STELTER: And I think these kind of prosecutions were expected. There's a great majority of Americans who have feared Trump's views of democracy and viewed these -- feared this kind of law fair. It's happening. And so, your question is, how does the system respond, right? Well, you know, the Newark mayor obviously is standing up for this congresswoman.

But how does the system respond? How do judges and juries respond? I would be very surprised to see a jury in New Jersey go ahead and find that to be assault. I think a lot of people have been to concerts that get more out of control than that video shows.

BASH: Interesting. Even, I guess, it depends where and who the jury is. You know, the argument that Alina Habba is making is that, that she was too rough with law enforcement. But absolutely, you can look at it the other way. And I think one of the fascinating things about this, even when you look at the video, is it's a bit of a Rorschach test.

LIVINGSTON: Absolutely. And I think one of the things I've covered members under indictment, and when I've spoken to sources in the DOJ, they often agonize over these because when the executive branch goes after the legislative branch, it's just so loaded. And a member of Congress has a lot of protections.

[12:25:00]

We mentioned the Speech and Debate Clause. They can use their campaign money to pay for attorneys, and you can already see the Democratic caucus lining up for her. But at the end of the day, this has to go through a court of law and before a jury of her peers, and this may come off as more hassling than anything.

STELTER: Unless this gets dropped in months, and the goal was just to humiliate and shame and embarrass her, and the goal is just to have us play this video and say, shame on her, shame on her. If the goal is just publicity, it's working.

BASH: Well, it could be, but just remember, her politics are very different, where she comes from --

STELTER: -- and you're saying that she might benefit from this.

LIVINGSTON: I mean, yeah, I'm not saying that she wants to be charged, but unnecessary --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: -- the months we've heard Democratic voters say, we want lawmakers to fight.

LIVINGSTON: Yes, exactly.

STELTER: And you're looking, they love to fight (Ph).

BASH: I want to go back to the point you were making, John, because it's so important. So, this is a quote from a Washington Post story about the Trump justice department considering removing a key check on lawmaker prosecutions. Federal prosecutors across the country may soon be able to indict members of Congress without approval from lawyers in the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section. If adopted, the changes would remove a layer of review intended to ensure that cases against public officials are legally sound and not politically motivated. So, if this happens, the diciness, if that's a word, with which you were discussing, this goes through sort of the wheels in the Justice Department that would be gone. John?

BERMAN: Yeah. I mean, it was to Abby's point there. I mean, you know, this is something traditionally, the bar has been very high. You talk to people who serve at the SDNY or whatnot, and, yeah, sure. They -- you know, public corruption is something they investigate vigorously, but to actually press charges against the sitting members has always been this very, very high bar.

We'll see if that changes. I just -- it's just as hard to imagine, right? Bob Menendez was charged in that, you know, in Joe Biden's administration. Democrats held the White House, and he was charged and ultimately convicted during that time. Would the same thing happen to a Republican supporter of Donald Trump now?

BASH: I'll give you one other, Hunter Biden was tried and convicted during his father's administration. Would that happen now? I would say. Yeah.

Up next, Elon Musk. He has been the Republicans largest and most important donor, certainly was in 2024. Today, the richest man in the world shares his spending plans for the 2026 midterms. You're going to want to hear what he says about that, after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00]