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Inside Politics

New CNN Poll: 3 Percent Satisfied With Government's Answer On Epstein; Trump Looks To Tamp Down Talk Of Epstein Among MAGA Base; Democrats Push For Vote To Force Release Of Epstein Files; Trump moves forward with education dept. Firings after court ruling; Trump Threatens Any Republican Who Votes Against Cuts Package. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired July 15, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on Inside Politics, we have brand new CNN polling on the Jeffrey Epstein saga. Do Americans think their government is hiding something? We're about to reveal the numbers.

Plus, President Trump's plan to take apart the Department of Education gets a thumbs up from the Supreme Court. It means the department could be virtually eliminated without permission from Congress. And generational divide. Democrats in Arizona will pick a candidate to replace a 77-year-old congressman who died in office. Will it be a Gen Z-er with a big social media presence who just barely meets the age threshold.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

President Trump wants the Jeffrey Epstein story to go away, very badly. Big chunks of his MAGA base, though do not, and they don't understand why the president won't release more information.

Well, CNN included a question in our new poll. Are you satisfied with what the federal government has released on Jeffrey Epstein? And the answer pretty clear, no. Just 3 percent say they're satisfied. 50 percent are dissatisfied. 29 percent say it doesn't matter, and 17 percent haven't heard about it.

By party, notably, look at this. It is Democrats who are most unhappy. 56 percent say they're dissatisfied compared to 52 percent of independents, and just 40 percent of Republicans. That suggests some Republicans may be heeding President Trump's call to move on, even as some of his staunchest allies are not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELI CRANE (R-AZ): I want to see more transparency, like a lot of other members, and a lot of other Americans. I think if they don't, I think it's a messages Washington as usual, right? And a two tier, just justice system.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): A lot of people in MAGA, they really want to know more information about the people that were involved with Jeffrey Epstein. And is there a black male list? And are there foreign countries governments involved? And there's nothing wrong with people continuing to ask that.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How big of a blowback is there right now in MAGA world specifically?

TAYLOR GREENE: It's pretty big. I have to be honest. I'm always honest about what's going on. And yeah, this one -- this one has been pretty big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined now by a terrific group of reporters here at the table, CNN's Kristen Holmes and CNN's Eva McKend, Abby Livingston of Puck, and Ayesha Rascoe of NPR. Hello, ladies. This is nice. OK, so I'm going to start with you, Kristen. I know that you have been doing some excellent reporting on what's really going on behind the scenes, all of the backlash.

And before I bring you in, I just want to play a sound bite from Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk is obviously an influencer in a big way, particularly with young men. He is the person who hosted the Turning Point organization's forum over the weekend where they used so many of these MAGA people and their voices, used that platform to speak out against the president. Now he's singing a different tune. Listen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW: Honestly, I'm done talking about Epstein for the time being. I'm going to trust my friends the administration. I'm going to trust my friends in the government to do what needs to be done, solve it, balls in their hands. I've said plenty this last weekend, so if you guys want to see my commentary on it, that's fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Somebody got a big earful from the president of the United States.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He did. And what we know that happened is that we all saw the clip from Turning Point over the weekend in which Charlie Kirk was sitting down with Megyn Kelly. And it kind of escalated into them polling the audience of who would you rather see go, FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino or Attorney General Pam Bondi? And the crowd resoundingly said they support Bongino over Bondi.

And Charlie Kirl did receive a call from President Trump, which we reported over the weekend, expressing his support for Bondi. But what you're also seeing here is there seems to be an expectation from MAGA world right now that President Trump is going to make this right. You hear Charlie Kirl saying there that he's going to leave it to his friends at the administration.

We also heard Lara Trump yesterday going on Benny Johnson Show. Saying that she believes Donald Trump is going to release more of the Epstein files, more unredacted documents, whatever that means. Now, when you talk to officials at the Department of Justice and at the White House, they are not saying the same thing. They are saying that this case is closed, but you're hearing these MAGA loyalists who really want there to be something else here because --

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BASH: She's not just a MAGA loyalist.

HOLMES: No, she's also family.

BASH: She's also father-in-law who's trying to get a message out.

HOLMES: Right. And so, there is -- there is a lot going on here. And if nothing does happen, I think you're going to see another shift.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: I'm watching now how Democrats respond to this. They have an uneven record of really taking advantage of the internal divisions on the right. 40 percent is not an insignificant number of Republicans that want more answers. And you see Hakeem Jeffries leaning into this. You see Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking member of the oversight committee --

BASH: I'm just going to interrupt you only to play some of what you're talking about from Democrats, and then we'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Pam Bondi said it was on her desk. Take it off of her desk and bring it over to Congress.

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): We need to release the Epstein files, so we can restore government of the people, by the people and for the people.

REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): I want to know what the hell is in these files. And I think we all want to know why Trump is suddenly changing his tune and is so desperate to sweep this under the rug.

REP. HANK JOHNSON (D-GA): Epstein died by suicide. Believe that and you must be blind. You've been telling us you'd release the files but where are they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I mean, who knew that we could do this to music. As you continue what you're saying, I just want to remind our viewers of this brand- new poll, which really speaks to what you're reporting, Eva, about Democrats. Right now, they are the ones who are saying that they want to hear more very likely because -- not because, you know, this is a top issue for them and their lives likely, but because they see a political opening when it comes to division in the GOP.

MCKEND: Absolutely, and Congressman Johnson -- Hank Johnson probably had the absolute best response. But yes, this is an opportunity for them, and they have a track record of not always taking advantage of those political opportunities. Republicans have seized on democratic divisions when it comes to the war in Gaza, when it comes to immigration. Well, now Democrats have their opportunity.

AYESHA RASCOE, NPR HOST, "WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY" AND "UP FIRST": I think part of the thing too, that Republicans have to think about is like, is this going to be bad for Trump? Trump is so in control of the party. That's very clear, right? So, is he going to pay a price? Probably not.

But if, you know, if you look at the base and they want to take their frustration out on someone, they can take it out on that Republican in the Senate or the House and the establishment and this and that. That's part of the issue, is like Trump, yeah, everyone loves him. It's much harder to go against Trump, but you can go against those nameless Republicans any time.

BASH: I agree with that, except in this case. There is so much tape of people not just Trump, which it includes Trump, but the people who are now at the highest levels of the administration that he put them in place, who have been stirring up this controversy, making it something that they want people, MAGA voters to vote on and making promises.

One example, this is maybe the most epic of all of those examples. Kash Patel on with Glenn Beck in December of 2023.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, who has Jeffrey Epstein's --

KASH PATEL, DIRECTOR OF FBI: Black book.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black book.

PATEL: FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But who? That is -- I mean, there --

PATEL: No, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Kash Patel is now the Director of the FBI, which is why, Abby, people who were listening to him and went and voted for Donald Trump and believe that there's something there are saying, OK, Kash Patel, you now have the job, tell us what's there.

ABBY LIVINGSTON, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Absolutely. And I think what's fascinating is Trump has demonstrated just total control of the administration and Congress, and this is going out into another realm. And a figure in this who I find fascinating. Earlier this week, I did some reporting on Elon Musk's third party and whether that's a threat to Republicans.

And most of my sources were like, it's not a problem until it's a problem, but they said, but we are worried about what he's stirring up with Epstein. And he's -- we've got to remember, he's at -- he's got the megaphone of X, and he's the richest man in the world. And so that is a much more pressing concern to Republicans than third party activity.

HOLMES: Can we say one thing that I think we kind of gloss over here when you talk about President Trump having control of the party. This is President Trump's party. He created it, and the idea that he based it on was one that many people in the country were feeling, but no one had really responded to. And the idea was that Washington is controlled, the government is controlled by these elitists, and it's time to take them out of Washington and drain the swamp.

There is nothing more swampy to these people than Jeffrey Epstein. And the idea of Jeffrey Epstein is rooted in these elites doing whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted. And so, you're seeing his base people coming to him, to President Trump. And that was part of what he ran on was this draining of the swamp, Epstein is part of that.

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BASH: But it's even more than that, right? It's the swamp in the deep state.

HOLMES: Right.

BASH: When you hear that, oftentimes, you think of and they mean nameless, faceless bureaucracy --

HOLMES: Exactly.

BASH: -- otherwise known as career civil servants in a lot of these government agencies. This is conspiracy theory stuff, which is even more red meat.

RASCOE: This is the idea that there is a hidden cabal of pedophiles, running things or doing horrible things to children and that we need to get them. And that is very real. And when Republicans like Kash Patel and others found it useful to stir that up, they were stirring it up. But now that it's in their hands, they don't know what to do with it.

MCKEND: That being said, I would say that from my coverage being out in the field, Republican voters tend to be deferential to Trump, so I see them eventually coming around. But for the meantime, Democrats do have an opportunity.

BASH: Yeah. And that's certainly what our brand-new poll suggests. All right, everybody. Don't go away. Up next. The president gets the Supreme Court's green light to dismantle wide swaths of government without congressional approval. He's not wasting any time. We'll explain after a break.

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BASH: Today, President Trump is moving forward with his plan to dismantle the education department after the Supreme Court's conservative majority green lit, the mass firings he's been trying to carry out since he came into office. Hundreds of workers at the Department of Education will be out of a job. And the goal is to virtually shut it down, even without congressional approval.

The question that parents and teachers across the country are asking right now is, what does it mean for their schools and the students? CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is digging into the answers to those questions. What comes next, Serfaty?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, this is essentially a green light, all systems go for the department to start winding down the agency that, of course, is President Trump's stated goal. And it's worth looking at the numbers of 4100 workers at the start of this year at the Department of Education, that is going to be cut in half with this Supreme Court ruling saying that the administration can go forth and do that.

And with such a massive reduction, of course, education experts are caused -- are raising major red flags and really setting off the alarms on how the agency can carry out its duties. So, it's worth going back and looking at what exactly the agency does and what it does now.

Now, the agency does dole out billions of dollars in federal grants and funding to K through 12 schools. It manages federal student loans. It investigates discrimination through the Office of Civil Rights, researches reading and math levels, providing important data points on education systems that are in place and if they're working.

It does not in any way dictate curriculum. It doesn't set it. It doesn't tell teachers in schools, what to teach or certify teachers, and it does not establish graduation requirements. Those are all set in school and local school boards at the state level.

It's also worth remembering here, Dana, as well, that the Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon. She has been very clear that these reductions in staff, they are just one part of the larger changes she wants to see to the department. They will move many of the functions to other departments.

SBA taking over student loans, special ed, HHS, and today, just a few hours ago, Dana, they announced Department of Labor will take over adult education. So, effectively breaking apart, moving the functions to other agency to effectively dismantle their own.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, she was literally nominated, and during her confirmation hearing, admitted that she was coming into this job at the department in order to help get rid of that department that she is now running. Thank you so much for breaking that down, Sunlen. Appreciate it.

And my panel is back now. You know, the Department of Education, we're going to talk broadly about the cuts across the board in a second. But the Department of Education is one of the most interesting because it's relatively new. When you look at our government, it's only been in place since Jimmy Carter.

And really since then, Republicans have been talking about getting rid of it because they say it's unnecessary. Washington bureaucracy, and it can be done, as Sunlen was saying, is probably going to happen now through various other agencies, and because so much of education funding and policy is already done at the state and local level.

RASCOE: Yeah. Well, I mean, this is one of those things. This has been a long-standing Republican goal, but it has not happened, likely because others were afraid of the repercussions of doing it. Because when you start talking about funding, when you start talking about student loans, you're touching a lot of people's lives, right?

And so, the question is, it could be done or it can be done by these other agencies, but will it be done well? And how is that transition going to work? And so, it's another example of, like Republicans, they've caught the car now (Ph), like how is it going to be in practice? And that's the problem.

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When things, when funding doesn't go out the way it should, or when people's loans, something's not right with them. That's going to be in the hands of this administration. You can't point at anyone else. These are your decisions.

BASH: And also, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that the Supreme Court did this. Even the administration, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think they went in thinking that they would be able to do this in any other way except Congress, which passed the statute creating the department, would pass a statute dismantling it.

And now the Supreme Court stepped in and said, never mind, you can do this. I mean, obviously, they didn't say dismantle, but that's effectively what they're allowed to do. They did so the Supreme Court without a majority opinion, but there was a minority opinion, and it was very clear that three liberal justices were not happy.

The dissent was written by Justice Sotomayor, who said, in part, when the executive publicly announces its intent to break the law and then executes on that promise, it is the judiciary's duty to check that lawlessness, not expedite it. The decision hands the executive the power to repeal statutes by firing all those necessary to carry them out. Was the administration surprised, even that their luck or victory here?

HOLMES: I don't know if surprise is the right word. I think that now it's actually kicked them into action in the sense that they were waiting this stuff out and weren't sure when or if it was going to happen. I think, to your larger point, I mean, they have known since he was elected that a lot of what he was going to want to get done in terms of his agenda, which this is part of, was stuff that was going to have to eventually go through the Supreme Court. And they were confident that once it got past the lower courts, that he would be able to get his agenda in place and that the Supreme Court would rule in his favor, largely because he pointed so many conservative justices last tenure in there.

But I do want to say -- I mean, I think to your point, I really couldn't agree with you more, which is that this now has turned into this, especially with the Supreme Court ruling, where they are actually having to act on it. And I think that it's really hard -- Democrats and Republicans think there are problems with the education system in America and with the Department of Education, like that's across the board.

But the question is, do you have enough infrastructure in place to replace the current system? It's obviously what we saw the same thing that happened with Obamacare. I mean, I know those are very different, but when they wanted to actually repeal it, there was nothing that was going to fill that gap. And are they prepared for the gap that this is going to leave? And I don't know the answer to that, yeah.

BASH: And then, OK. So, beyond the Department of Education, which is kind of one bucket of this discussion is the broader question of whether Congress is going to put into statute so make official many of the cuts that Elon Musk just kind of did, and it's -- what's known as a rescissions package.

They have a deadline, not like a fake deadline, but this is what the president wants them to do it by, but like a real deadline with regard to the law and the process. Just some examples of what is in the rescissions package that passed the House. The Senate is now dealing with its own presumably, NPR, PBS, local public stations, cuts there, PEPFAR, other foreign aid, all USAID funding, all funding for the U.S. Institute of Peace. And again, these are just some examples.

MCKEND: Yeah. And I can tell you that there are two schools of thought among Democrats. There are some that are concerned that ultimately, if these cuts hurt Americans, the Democrats will be blamed for not pushing back more and doing all they can to resist this, but also a school of thought centered in well.

Listen, we can run on this. If this ultimately impacts Americans in a negative way. This is our election argument to Democrats, but this is not a done deal. Susan Collins is concerned about the funding for AIDS programs that prevent infected mothers from infecting their infants. And so, you know, he may not necessarily get this.

BASH: Well, and the math is the math, to your point, that we saw on the other big piece of legislation a week ago or so, and that is why the president is really pushing the senators to pass this. The same kind of pressure we saw him put on. Then he wrote, it's very important that all Republicans adhere to my rescissions bill, and in particular defund the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which is worse than keep I'm not even going to read that. Any Republican that votes to allow this monstrosity to continue broadcasting will not have my endorsement. LIVINGSTON: I think one of the most interesting groups of people to watch in this are the rural Republicans in the Senate and the House. And on all of these issues, because so many of them are affecting rural communities and public schools are the center of small towns in America.

And my understanding from Democrats who cover rural areas is they don't think that they can exactly win rural America, but they say they're being heard in a way that they have never been before, and maybe they can lose less badly. And so, I just think tariffs, USAID and SNAP, which the agriculture community funds are sells their product to. These are all putting stress on rural communities.

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BASH: And rural communities rely on public broadcasting still and public education.

LIVINGSTON: Absolutely, yeah.

BASH: Such a good point. All right, everybody standby. Up next. The potential $70 billion investment that has President Trump and Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro attending the same summit. Stay with us.

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BASH: President Trump will head to Pennsylvania this afternoon to attend an energy and AI summit. The Pittsburgh event is being hosted by Republican Pennsylvania Senator Dave McCormick.

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