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House Oversight Committee Subpoenas DOJ For Epstein Files; Epstein Story Won't Go Away Despite Trump's Best Efforts; Sources: DOJ May Release Transcript Of Ghislaine Maxwell Interview; Bondi Orders Grand Jury Probe Of Obama Admin. Over Russia Probe; Sources: California Dems Eye Map That Could Flip 5 GOP-Held Seats; Democrats Declare "War" Over GOP Redistricting Efforts. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 05, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: Today in Inside Politics, the scandal that won't quit. President Trump is desperate to move on from the Jeffrey Epstein saga engulfing his administration, but even his own party is helping to keep it front and center. We have breaking news on the House Republican push for answers.

Plus, battle lines. The political firestorm in Texas is exploding across the country as Democrats declare war on the GOP push to deliver the president more seats in Congress ahead of the midterm elections. But what's their actual plan, and the cherish, and the chastised. Bernie Sanders, Elon Musk, the pope will break down a new poll showing where they land on the popularity charts.

I'm Manu Raju in for Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

The Epstein story. Well, it's a back atop our rundown today, and it's exactly what the president does not want. His fellow Republicans are at least partly to blame, because minutes ago, the GOP led House Oversight Committee announced it is subpoenaing the Justice Department for files related to the Jeffrey Epstein case.

CNN's Lauren Fox is covering all the developments for us. So, Lauren, the reason why this subpoena came about is because Democrats had forced the issue, but then some Republicans joined them.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And Manu, it's notable because it's been almost two weeks since that oversight subcommittee voted to subpoena, several individuals for depositions, as well as the full extent of the Epstein files from the Justice Department. But obviously it took some time to get these subpoenas ready to go to send them out.

And I just want to give you a sense of how broad these requests are going. They are requesting all of the files related to the Jeffrey Epstein case at the Justice Department, but they are also asking for depositions from some high profile folks on both the Democrat and Republican side, including Hillary and Bill Clinton, as well as several attorney generals, including Merrick Garland, as well as William Barr, former FBI Director James Comey, and they're going all the way back to the Bush administration's A.G. Alberto Gonzales.

So that gives you a sense here that this was a long, long fought investigation at the Justice Department into Jeffrey Epstein. It also gives you a sense that in order perhaps to get some Republicans on board, they had to go after some high-profile figures on the Democratic side as well.

Now it's not clear exactly how quickly folks are going to be willing to comply, or if they're going to comply at all. It's also not clear whether the Justice Department is going to be willing to hand over these files in an expedited manner. If they're going to hand them over in the full extent to which the oversight committee is requesting this information, this could go into, you know, protracted court battles with the Justice Department. It also could go into long court battles with some of these individuals who they're requesting depositions from.

So, Manu, it really remains to be seen how quickly any of this gets resolved, but the one thing that is extremely clear is this, if Donald Trump wanted this issue to go away, the fact that this is going to play out for the next several months, that gives you an indication that we are going to be talking about this on Capitol Hill for months, if not years, to come.

RAJU: Yeah. And look, it's the three Republicans who joined the Democrats on that key subcommittee that forced the issue, forced a subpoena to go forward. And Lauren Fox, thank you so much for that reporting. And here in the room, I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters, CNN's Alayna Treene, CNN's Aaron Blake, Seung Min Kim of the Associated Press, and CNN's Paula Reid. Nice to see you all.

All right, this is back in the news, and as Lauren nicely laid out there because of the GOP led community issuing the subpoena. The question now that I have is, how does the Justice Department respond to this subpoena for documents? We saw them during the -- when the Democrats were in charge, when during the first Trump term, they pushed back at subpoena after subpoena. This is a subpoena they don't want, will they comply?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear. Historically, the Justice Department doesn't like to hand sensitive material over to folks on the Hill because they leak, and this is something they're uncomfortable with releasing on their own terms. So, it would surprise me if they were willing to comply with this, this very extensive, a very broad subpoena. But there's something else that's happening here, and Lauren touched on it.

I mean, this also has the purpose of trying to spread responsibility for the current political firestorm they are facing, right? I mean, this is the result of Attorney General Pam Bondi promising more transparency and then backtracking.

It is the second in a series of major PR blunders she has made related to the Epstein files. The last one was promising new material, and binders that didn't have new material. So, it gives them an opportunity to maybe comply a little bit, make it look like they're playing ball.

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But when I look at this list of people, these are all folks that in addition to the Justice Department subpoena, when you talk about Jeff Sessions, Robert Mueller, Loretta Lynch, these are all people who President Trump is not happy with that. He would be glad to try to share some of the blame with. I don't see former acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker on this list. So, I think this is -- they're not happy about this but this is also part of a PR effort to spread blame -- when really, we all know who's to blame for the larger crisis here.

RAJU: Yeah. And look, the soften the blow. That's why you -- all these people were added onto this. The Clintons, of course, that's something that the Republicans added on to the subpoena. Democrats are fine with that. They voted for it because they want the Epstein files. What are you hearing about the White House -- who -- you cover the White House? How concerned are they about the fact that this is still an issue and has been pushed by some Republicans, at least.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right. I mean, you've seen the White House try to change the topic several times, whether it's directly related to this or not, over the last several weeks. Right now, when you ask the president a lot about kind of these developments involving the DOJ, he says, I don't know much about it. I defer to the DOJ just as their thing which traditionally is not really his posture.

But you're right that every sort of little development ensures that the storyline is carried out over, you know, several weeks and months. I think what's really important over this current month, when lawmakers are back in their home districts, is what they're hearing from constituents.

Because that's what a lot of Republican lawmakers said, when they said -- when they kind of pushed back against what the president was doing, saying, I'm hearing from my constituents. I'm getting a lot of calls. They're concerned about transparency. Here, you saw Mike Flood of Nebraska get pressed on this last night at his town hall. So, we'll see how fiery voters and constituents get on these Republican lawmakers.

RAJU: And don't forget there's that vote that skills is still scheduled to happen in the first week of September to release the Epstein files in the United States House. But as someone was saying, it's the developments that continue to happen here. There's the Ghislaine Maxwell case. Suddenly she's transferred to this low security prison after Todd Blanche, number two of the Justice Department, interviewed her.

This is, of course, the Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell. She's serving a 20-year prison sentence. But suddenly she's without explanation, this lower security prison without -- after this interview with the number two of the Justice Department, Aaron, you heard about this, the Ghislaine Maxwell transfer -- prison transfer as to Trump's Epstein morass? AARON BLAKE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. I think what we've seen throughout this process is that the Trump administration seems to be taking steps that are geared towards, you know, minor concessions, trying to make the story go away. And there's just no signs that this is going away.

I think today is a case in point for that. I think arguably, the last few days have been the quietest that we've seen on the Epstein front, at least after we heard about this prison transfer until today. And now we learn that even Republicans are on board with these subpoenas. They're going to press this issue over the course of months.

I think it's a really interesting question now, what the Justice Department does? Because, as we're talking about here, they can push back on these subpoenas. They can say, we don't want to give these documents over to you. But are they going to go that far and make it clear that they are really fighting against these disclosures?

It's one thing to promise these things and say, oh, by the way, you know, we don't want to release these things because of people are in them and it could besmirch their reputations. It's another to go to court and say, Congress is requesting these things. Congressional Republicans are congress -- are asking for these things, but we are going to fight not to turn them over to you.

RAJU: And you and Paula are now reporting about the fact that there's a debate about releasing this Ghislaine Maxwell transferred -- transcript and recording. They recorded this interview between Todd Blanche and the -- and Maxwell.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. I mean, I think there have been so many questions, because as you mentioned, the deputy attorney general flew down to Florida to interview her, kind of a move you never see that he was doing that and everyone was questioning you. What is he going to be asking her, and what can you actually glean from this? As well as a lot of, you know, skepticism over what she could actually share given her position serving out her 20-year conviction on sex crimes related to Epstein.

Now, what we're reporting, Paula and I, and also our colleague, Kristen Holmes, is that they made an audio recording of those interviews. One official told me it was more than 10 hours of, you know, audio that they are going through and transcribing, digitizing, redacting names of potential victims. And a lot of people in the White House want them to release it because they want to control some of the optics and the narrative around this.

I mean, as Paula rightly pointed out, everyone here has really pointed out is that the Trump administration's handling of this has been boggled from the start, and they realize they need to kind of gain control of it. But also -- there's also a big part of the Trump administration where people believe, you know, as you pointed out, it's been very quiet. Why would we throw a grenade and resurface all of this at a time when, you know, we don't have to be talking about it. And so, what we're hearing is some people say, you know, we could see these transcripts published in, you know, a week, a couple weeks. Some are saying, you know, we haven't made a final decision. We might choose not to do this. But I think what we ultimately see them do there will be very indicative of how they're going to treat the broader case.

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RAJU: Yeah. But if they don't release it, the backlash will be immense.

REID: Exactly, that's why the story is so significant. I mean, I was really surprised. The fact that they made an audio recording. You're talking about a convicted sex trafficker, someone victims have testified, recruited them, groomed them, sexually abused them. She's been in prison for quite a while, which isn't good for anyone's mental health or coherence. You're going to put all that on tape, then make a transcript.

Yet, they don't release this. This is going to amplify these concerns about their transparency, their willingness to protect predators. So, they're in a really tough spot. Now that we've reported that you have this transcript.

RAJU: Meantime, while you're here, there's this news that happened yesterday about Pam John -- Pam Bondi calling for this grand jury to be convened to look into the Obama administration's handling of the Russia investigation back from 2016. There was a whole investigation in the first Trump term, the special counsel, John Durham, investigated all this, and ultimately led to some findings in the Biden administration. What's different between now and then?

REID: Look, we're all for transparency on any potential corruption, right? But this is something that has been combed over for a decade now. It strange credulity that John Durham would have missed something or passed over some sort of criminal activity. Also, since it's been about a decade, it's unclear what would still be in the statute of limitations.

Now, certainly, someone could say the wrong thing, they could lie. You get a perjury charge. But I'll note that that news came out around the exact same time. We heard from the first time -- for the first time from Epstein victims, weighing in on the Justice Department's request to release grand jury materials.

And I have to say, I was really struck by how powerful their remarks were. They were very clearly unhappy with the Justice Department, accusing it of protecting third parties, wealthy individuals, while ignoring their needs. I mean, you have these dueling headlines, right? A lot of folks, Fox News and others, focused on this grand jury and whatever it's doing, not quoting from these victims. So, I think the timing there is something we can't lose sight of.

RAJU: Yeah. As the Epstein story got it -- became a big deal, Trump started making a bigger deal about this issue as well. So, we'll see how that ultimately plays out. All right, coming up, tit for tat. If Texas wipes out five democratic seats, California Governor Gavin Newsom says he'll do the same in the Golden State. But what does one of his potential successors think of that plan? Former Congresswoman Katie Porter will join me next.

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RAJU: About 90 minutes from now, the Texas House will gavel back into session to pass a GOP gerrymander that the party hopes will flip five House seats from blue to red. But for the second straight day, Democrats will block a vote by quite simply skipping it. And without enough Democrats in Austin, there will be no quorum and no vote. But if and when Texas Republicans manage to muscle through their new map, California Governor Gavin Newsom is warning, he's ready to fight back.

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GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Whatever they are doing will be neutered here in the state of California. He recognizes he's going to lose in the midterms, and we have the opportunity to defective -- to de facto end the Trump presidency in less than 18 months. That's what's at stake, and that's why we're putting a stake in the ground. We're not drawing lines to draw lines. We're holding the line on democracy, on the rule of law.

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RAJU: And sources are telling me that Democrats think they can knock out five Republican incumbents in California if they draw the lines right, but it's a little more complicated than that. Democrats will actually need to change the law to give them that power.

To discuss, I'm joined by former Congresswoman Katie Porter. She's a leading candidate to succeed Newsom in a crowded field to be the Golden State's next governor. Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon.

KATIE PORTER, (D) CALIFORNIA GOV. CANDIDATE: Absolutely.

RAJU: So, is this the way you would handle this as governor, asking your state's voters to redraw the congressional map to help give you five more democratic seats?

PORTER: Well, I appreciate what Governor Newsom said. The people of California chose a particular approach to redistricting in a different world than we are facing right now. We are seeing Donald Trump engage in lawless activity, mass immigration raids, yanking away federal research funding, and so I think people feel like we have to fight fire with fire.

And one thing I really appreciate about this that I want to emphasize is California's approach here is triggered. If Texas makes the wrong decision, if Texas is going to choose to change the rules midstream, then California is simply responding to that.

RAJU: So, it sounds like --

PORTER: And so, I think that this is a moment --

RAJU: Sorry.

PORTER: -- where I hear from California all the time as I'm running for governor. They want a fighter. They want someone who's going to stand up to Donald Trump and stand up to the Republican shenanigans.

RAJU: So, it sounds like you do support this plan by the governor?

PORTER: I think that Trump and Texas are leaving -- Texas Republicans are leaving us no choice. They are tinkering with the rules of our democracy.

RAJU: So, they -- and Congresswoman, there are already just nine Republican House members from California. If your party gets its way, it would be just four Republicans and 48 Democrats. So, is that really a fair representation in your state?

PORTER: Well, let's be honest. Do you think that what Texas has even right now is a fair representation in Texas? And we have so many other states, I could use as those examples. So, we should have a national fair approach to this. That's why I supported H.R. 1, For the People Act in Congress, why I fought for it. But we cannot allow Trump to rewrite the rules for his personal favor.

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This isn't about setting thoughtful national policy. That's not what Trump does, not in this context, and not in any context. This is about being willing to game a system, to take advantage of the American people, to trample on what they want. And so, I think that if Texas would like to have a non-partisan redistrict, independent redistricting commission. Great, California will continue to do what we've done. Remember, what California is doing here is being triggered by Donald Trump's actions, by his deep unfairness and destruction of our democracy.

RAJU: Congresswoman, you mentioned that For the People Act, you've -- which you voted for while you were in the House. That bill would actually ban partisan gerrymandering and actually ban mid district -- mid-decade redistricting as well. And separately, you could actually co-sponsored a bill to require states to establish independent redistricting commission.

So, but now it sounds like, now that you support with what the governor is talking about here, and letting Democrats essentially redraw the map to choose their voters. It sounds like you're reversing your position. Are you not?

PORTER: Not at all. Look, if you are -- when I was in Congress, I was being asked, as a legislator, what should our national policy be? And on that issue, I stand by the ideal way to approach this, the way that every state should be required by federal law to do this, is to have a non-partisan, independent redistricting commission. That's what I voted for. That's what I support. If you're asking me what I think should be the law of the land today, my answer is exactly the same.

RAJU: But I guess the question was -- I guess the question people would say -- people would ask respectfully. People say, aren't you abandoning your principles to win an election?

PORTER: No, not at all. I am trying to stand up for what is left of our democracy in a world in which Donald Trump is trying to game and cheat the system again and again. The people of California made a choice. I made a choice with H.R. 1 to support a system for the whole country. California made a choice, trying to lead the way for our democracy.

But if what we're going to see is other states change their rules, then California voters have an equal right to Texas to decide to change their rules. And that's what Newsom is talking about, giving California voters the opportunity to rethink how they want to do this in light of the unprecedented and deeply unfair world that we are in.

RAJU: Congresswoman, the former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, is reportedly preparing to fight California Democrats on this. And as you know, he championed and oversaw the California ballot initiative establishing independent redistricting in 2008. A spokesman for him told POLITICO that California is on a quote, race to the bottom by responding to Texas.

Do you agree that? I know that you agree with what the Governor Gavin Newsom is talking about here. But are you concerned that California may be in a race to the bottom here?

PORTER: I think that the person who's at the bottom and keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole in which to chuck our democracy is Donald Trump. Remember again, California's potential change is only triggered by what Texas decides to do. They can step back. They can stop this mid-decade redistricting.

They can stop this unfair gerrymandering, and California will continue to be what we've always been, which is the tip of the spear leading the way on best practices. It is absolutely fair to ask California voters what they want to do? If they want to continue a policy, they voted for back when Schwarzenegger was governor. In light of the world, we are in today, democracy evolves. The world evolves. And voters are allowed, and I think it's appropriate, actually, to put this question back in front of them.

RAJU: Congresswoman, of course, you're hoping to lead the nation's most populous state and would be one of the top leaders in your party if you do win that race. But poll after poll shows your party Democrats at historic levels of disapproval from the American public. I'm wondering, why have voters lost trust in your party?

PORTER: I think voters across the political spectrum want people who are straight shooters, who are honest about the challenges that we face, and know what it's like to push a grocery cart, to pay that bill, to worry about the cost of childcare.

I have been talking about economic issues, about how hard it is for families to make ends meet. And I do it from the very personal perspective of being a single mom of three kids who drives a minivan, who has to think about how I'm going to afford to repair it when it breaks down as it currently is actually.

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So, I think people want that kind of straight shooter truth telling. I don't think Democrats can rely on the same old, same old. People who have been in office for a long time, or haven't run for office for several decades, who are trying to get back into politics. The world has changed.

People want a fighter. That's what I hear when I travel the state of California. That's what I hear when people comment on my social media. KatiePorterOC, they tell me, fight, see us. Fight for us, understand what the challenges we are facing.

And I think that's the brand of politics that let me flip the seat in Orange County in 2018, get reelected again and again in a tough seat. And it's the brand of politics that people want right now across the country. They want Democrats to elect leaders who are going to be tough and honest.

RAJU: All right. Former Congresswoman Katie Porter, candidate for California Governor. Thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. Really appreciate your time.

PORTER: Thank you.

RAJU: And Texas Democrats called the threat of arrests a small price to pay to broad gerrymandering efforts in their states. Much more on that fight, coming up.

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