Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Justice Department Has Until End Of Day To Release Epstein Files; Trump Administration Eyes New Ways To Block Legal Immigration; Mitt Romney: Tax The Rich, Like Me; Tonight: Trump Rally In North Carolina To Tout Economy. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 19, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Tension grips Washington. Will the Justice Department meet its deadline and release the Epstein files by midnight?

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

Today is a crucial day in a story that's dominated Washington and engulfed the Trump White House for months. In the next 12 hours, the DOJ is required by law to release the government's files on convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. But Democrats are already crying foul. They claim that comments from the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche suggests they might not get everything that they are required to release. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: I expect that we're going to release several hundred thousand documents today, and those documents will come in all different forms, photographs and other materials associated with all of the investigations into Mr. Epstein. So, I expect that we're going to release more documents over the next couple of weeks. So today, several hundred thousand, and then over the next couple weeks, I expect several hundred thousand more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, according to the law signed by President Trump, the DOJ is required to release all the Epstein files by midnight, not some, not most all. I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters here, including MJ Lee. MJ, you've been doing some outstanding work on these files, and particularly in talking to the most important people involved in this and the survivors. What's your sense in talking to sources about what we expect and when we expect it?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. You know, first of all, I mean, I was at least glad to have at least a general sense of the scope of what we will see today, a couple hundred thousand documents, is what Todd Blanche said. Importantly, as you pointed out, this is -- it appears about to be sort of a rolling basis of additional files coming in the next couple of weeks. That is not what most of the survivors, at least that I have spoken to, would like to see. They want this band aid off. They have been waiting for this moment for so many years. I think, a good recap of just the massive amounts of information that we can potentially see and the kinds of information, I mean, the list is very, very long.

We're talking about search warrants, FBI affidavits, about those warrants, interviews with witnesses over the years, financial records, travel records, things from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial in general. Pam Bondi can't just hold something back because she thinks, well, this is too sensitive, or this might be embarrassing to x, y and z people.

However, there are a couple of categories of information where some information can actually be held back. We're talking about identifiable information about Epstein victims, anything related to child sex abuse, physical abuse, anything that could hurt national defense, though, how they're going to actually define that we don't know.

And then, importantly, anything that could hurt an ongoing investigation. And reminder President Trump himself has ordered up an investigation into individuals' institutions that he's not fond of. So, there are potential sort of loopholes that could allow the DOJ to withhold information. We just don't know what information is going to be withheld.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: Yeah. And of course, we're hearing that the big hold up, there are a lot of documents. I think we should start there. It's a lot of information. There are a lot of redactions that need to happen. But I do think what's central to this is that the law requires all and what I found so interesting about your reporting, MJ, is that the victims that a lot of the lawmakers who are pushing for the release of this doc -- these documents want to center.

Say, you know, all these -- the leaks seem, you know, we don't like that. It's trickling out. It doesn't have context. Some of the information that the House Committee has released, they feel that it doesn't have context. They feel that it's being politicized somewhat, at least the perception of it has been politicized.

So, they're saying that's what we've been waiting for is all of it to come out, so that it can all kind of be done and be over with, and we can get to the next steps. So, it sounds like a lot of people, might not be happy at the end of the day. Adding on the Republican voters who for years have been pushing for the release of these files, and they've been hoping Donald Trump would do this. They may not be satisfied either.

[12:05:00]

ASMA KHALID, CO-HOST, THE GLOBAL STORY PODCAST, BBC: That's what I was going to say. This is a really, I think, key personal and political moment for President Trump. He's promised to release these files. There was loud, outspoken base of support amongst Republicans who wanted to see this moment happen. And I think, you know, maybe by the end of the day tomorrow, we'll have a sense of whether or not this actually adds fuel to the fire and people feel unsatisfied, or if it actually quiets down that demand that so many voters have had.

BASH: I want just to kind of recap a little bit of some of the things that President Trump has said over, I don't know the past year plus, about the Epstein files and whether they should be released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: But yeah, I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? Are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. I can't believe you're asking a question on Epstein, at a time like this, where we're having some of the greatest success.

We've got a lot of people that it could be mentioned in those files that don't deserve to be people because he knew everybody in Palm Beach. I don't know anything about that, but I have said to Pam and everybody else, give them everything you can give them because it's a -- it's a Democrat hoax. It's just a hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, you know, you have sort of that perspective from the president, which is really part of the reason why it's taken so long. But I want to now turn to what you referred to Tia, which is the reporting that you and Annie Grayer have done about the victims and the survivors, I should call them, the survivors. And how they have sort of seen the drip, drip, drip, of what the House Democrats have been doing in the lead up to what is supposed to happen by law today.

LEE: Yeah. You know, this entire lead up has been incredibly challenging and stressful for many of the survivors that I've spoken with, for all the reasons that I think we can understand, not knowing what they can anticipate, not knowing when they're going to turn on the news and see something that could be triggering.

And I think one thing that has been really frustrating and hard for them to stomach has been the slow rolling coverage of the, you know, documents and photos being made public by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee.

And the reporting that I have with Annie is that there was actually a private meeting with female House Democrats earlier this week where the survivors on this video call told the lawmakers, this is really hard for us. The fact that, you know, maybe every couple days, every once in a while, without any kind of heads up, we see, you know, random photos, it feels like that are being made public. This is really stressful, and it causes that trauma sometimes to resurface over and over again--

BASH: And yet Democrats did just that again yesterday.

LEE: Just that again yesterday.

BASH: So, does that mean they weren't listening?

LEE: Well, I think what's interesting is that, according to our reporting, some of the House Democrats on that call made clear that they shared in that frustration that they certainly don't want to see victims and survivors being retraumatized, at least that's what was conveyed. And they even said, you know, we're going to go to Robert Garcia and make sure that we take to him your concerns. But as you point out, we saw another round of it yesterday.

MITCHELL: Yeah, I think it's -- I think it goes to show you, as you were just telling me that, you know, the difference of having women speaking about an issue that, in this case, has largely impacted women, and then the men who are in charge, you know, maybe not having the same sensibilities. That's something that just came to my mind when you were talking.

But I also think Democrats are in a -- you know, politically speaking, Democrats are trying to kind of hold up that this is an issue for Republicans that they do have information that's not being released. I think they're trying to feed the beast, because at the end of the day, we know there is a lot of public interest in this.

So, I think Democrats are trying to walk the fine line, but perhaps maybe the impact on the victims who again, even with redactions, if you're a survivor, you know that's your picture, even if there's a square box over your face, you know it's you.

BASH: And before we go to break, I just want to put up one of -- I said that the Democrats are pushing and reminding the administration of what the actual law says. Tom Massie, who was one of the lead Republicans, pushing for the Epstein files to be released. Just put this on social media. It's the part of the law that actually says, not all of these documents, not some, but all of these documents should be released.

All right, up next. The Trump administration is shutting down a key legal pathway for people who want to enter the United States. We'll explain what it means for so called diversity visa holders. And a fight in MAGA is boiling over.

[12:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN SHAPIRO, HOST, THE BEN SHAPIRO SHOW: These people are frauds, and they are grifters, and they do not deserve your time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That's conservative podcast host and influencer, Ben Shapiro. Why is he calling out his fellow podcasters and saying that they're destroying the GOP? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00] BASH: President Trump considers a new immigration restriction as an equal and opposite reaction to a tragedy. The man authorities say killed two Brown University students and an MIT professor moved to the United States via what is called a diversity visa. That happened in 2017. It took the Trump administration two hours to announce its suspending that visa program. The latest example of the president cutting off legal pathways to come to the United States.

Our CNN correspondent Priscilla Alvarez joins the table. First off, Priscilla, can you explain what this type of visa is?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, the diversity visa lottery has been around for decades. In fact, originally it was meant to attract Irish immigrants to the United States. It has since evolved over time, and mostly Africans are those who are participants or beneficiaries of this program, as are other nations.

But the idea is to attract people who come from low level migration countries. In other words, countries that typically wouldn't migrate to the United States, there's an allotment of visas for them. It's called a diversity visa lottery to suggest it's at random, but there is vetting and security requirements that are part of this program. Once they arrive to the United States, they are issued green cards by the Department of Homeland Security, and then they have their path to citizenship.

Now here's the thing with this latest announcement. I have been spending the morning digging into it. It's actually more complicated than the way the secretary made it sound. She said, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, that she was directing USCIS to suspend the program, or pause the program, but the program is run by the State department. They're the ones that handle the visa application -- applications and issuance of the visas.

However, once they arrive, the Department of Homeland Security is the one that gives them the green card. So, I have been trying to get clarity over the course of the morning in terms of, is this actually suspended or not, or is there a part of it that they have halted? And we don't yet have an answer.

The State Department said that it's working closely with the Department of Homeland Security to put in place all necessary measures to protect America from this threat. But that does not equal suspend or pause. So, we're still trying to understand what part of this is halted. We do know, however, that the administration has used domestic incidents in as many days to halt immigrant applications to it's incredibly disruptive to the entire U.S. immigration.

BASH: And let me just put examples up on the screen that what we're talking about. And we're talking about legal, legal immigration that have come under new restrictions, blocking asylum at the border, pausing asylum applications, banning entry level -- excuse me, entry for travelers from African, Middle Eastern nations, halting refugee administration -- excuse me, admissions, ending protected status for people in several countries, and then restricting and reducing student and work visas. ALVAREZ: And we often -- you mentioned the visas there, we also often talk about asylum and refugees, as you mentioned there. But this is also naturalization. Some of those naturalization ceremonies have been paused. These are people who have gone through the entire system up until the point where they would become U.S. citizens, and then that is blocked.

So, this again, has been very disruptive, but it has been something the administration has used these incidents to advance their broader agenda, because President Trump has criticized the diversity visa program back to 2017. Now they get to -- they say that they're going to make changes to it. So certainly, all of this again being used, or these incidents being used as a pretext to advance their broader goals.

KHALID: I think that's one of the things that's so striking to me about President Trump's second term in office. You know, he said, he was going to curtail immigration. He campaigned on that many of his voters supported it. But what we have seen is a systematic change to legal immigration during this first year. You know, we didn't talk about something like Temporary Protected Status.

BASH: Yeah.

KHALID: So, that also affects, you know, many other nations. I think what is also striking to point out here is how similar this is to the actions we saw after the shooting of National Guard members here in Washington D.C., outside of the metro station. Quickly we saw that, you know, an updated travel ban list, the pause on asylum seekers, a change to who actually could obtain and go through the immigration application process.

And he will say, and his supporters will often say, well, this is about national security. But a lot of critics point out that this is collective punishment in their view of the actions, you know, for the actions of just one or two individuals.

So, the last thing I was going to ask you Priscilla real quick on this, is, am I not correct, though, in understanding this visa lottery program was enacted by Congress, it is actually a congressional--

ALVAREZ: Yeah, this is congressionally mandated. But of course, the executive can do things on the backend to slow roll the way that they, you know, do their allocation.

BASH: Yeah. So was a lot of the millions and millions of dollars that the president and Elon Musk just got rid of, and he can add other things to that list as well. Coming up. No new taxes. Well, we'll talk about somebody who went from that to tax the rich. It's an ex-GOP presidential candidate. We'll tell you who it is after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BASH: Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican presidential nominee who was vehemently against any new taxes. Is that what the New York Times op- ed today saying, quote, tax the rich like me.

My panel is back now. Looking around. I don't know if anybody here was old enough to cover Mitt Romney. I did. And he definitely, not only did he as a traditional Republican, did not want to add taxes to anybody's, you know, list, he also was the subject of because he was, you know wealthy. Obviously, in the pre-Trump years.

[12:25:00]

A lot of attacks because the questions about whether or not he did pay taxes, the capital gains taxes that he paid, which he writes about in this op-ed and it's really fascinating. I'm going to read you just a little bit of what he said in today's op-ed. It is not that the rich, in these cases, are cheating the government. They're playing by the rules. But given the potential peril ahead, we need to follow the Willie Sutton rule, go where the money is.

And these cases he had in this op-ed listed all of the ways that rich people avoid paying the taxes that he now says that they should. And just by way of a little bit of context. This is part of his argument when he was running for president in 2012.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The revenue I get is by more people working, getting higher pay, paying more taxes. That's how we get growth and how we balance the budget. But the idea of taxing people more, putting more people out of work, you'll never get there. You never balance the budget by raising taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now he's saying I was wrong, and or thinks, I was wrong, and things have changed, and we need to.

LEE: Right. I was old enough, by the way--

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: Not just 2012.

BASH: OK.

LEE: Yeah. And I think he's making clear in what he's written, if the party, the Republican Party keeps going down the route that it's going down, the revenue map, he says, is just not going to work. I do think the irony here that really stands out to me, particularly when we are listening to a speech like last night from President Trump, where he, you know, no surprise is putting a lot of the blame on the prior administration.

At the very end of that administration, there was a good amount of frustration and anxiety and sort of this sense of unfairness that Democrats were grappling with because they felt like, look, we inherited something that was really challenging. And particularly post COVID, we paid a political price and worked really hard to try to get the economy turned around.

And for the most part, they were seeing a lot of good and promising economic trends. And they felt like we are just handing all of this off to the next administration, President Trump. And there is sort of that road not taken, I think, by the Trump administration, and President Trump himself in some of the big economic decisions he's made, obviously, namely tariffs and the revenue cuts, the downsizing of federal government, where I don't know, I mean, we can't predict, but the outlook could be very different right now.

BASH: Yeah. I don't think there's any world in which Republicans are going to be like, you know what, Mitt Romney, you're right. We should raise taxes on the rich. But I want to connect it to what the current Republican president is grappling with, which is the fact that that his populism, which got him into the White House, his promise that people would be able to afford things, is not working with his current policies. He's going to be out in North Carolina today, trying again to make the case.

MITCHELL: Yeah. And also, Democrats have been hitting him hard on the one big, beautiful bill having cuts that won't have good impact on the working class, but that did extend the tax cuts that mainly benefit wealthier Americans, and that is his signature legislation. So, I think, you know, for months, Democrats have been saying, the guy that was elected to make things more affordable for everyone, particularly working-class Americans, not only hasn't done that, but what he has done is protected the pockets of people who make the most money.

And I think that's what Mitt Romney, in a way, is reflecting. You know, he sounds like a Democrat a little bit in this op-ed, because for years, Democrats have been saying we could help balance the budget and protect some of the safety net programs if we tax the wealthiest, not even just like regular rich, but we're talking about the multi- millionaires. Tax them a little bit more, close some of these "caverns" that Mitt Romney writes about.

But, I mean, quite frankly, it would be hard for Democrats to do as well.

BASH: No question.

MITCHELL: But I think they have more willpower if they had control.

KHALID: I mean, the economy is one of the biggest challenges that Donald Trump and Republicans face leading up to the midterms. And the major challenge, I will say, for Trump is that he said, he said it very explicitly himself after he won. I won for two reasons, immigration and the groceries, the price of groceries -- and the price of groceries.

You know, I think that this reminds me of the challenges the Biden team was facing. You can't tell people, it's good, it's going to get better if people don't feel it. And that's the same predicament that Trump is dealing with right now. And I will say, I think mid-terms are always hard, as we know, for the party in power. It really is an additional challenge if people don't feel great about the economy and they don't right now.

BASH: Yeah. All right, speaking about the way people feel. Democrats may be feeling a little bit better about their political situation as 2025 comes to a close, but they're not out of the wood politically. Up next. I'm going to speak with a Democratic senator who wrote a prescription for the year ahead, and it's peppered with, mea culpas.