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At Least Two Journalists Arrested After Covering Church Protest; Trump Takes Questions After More Epstein Files Released; Deal To Avert Shutdown Hits Snag On Senate Floor; Trump Calls Pretti An "Agitator And, Perhaps, Insurrectionist". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 30, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash. And we start with the Trump administration taking new aggressive steps against journalists.

Today, Attorney General Pam Bondi announced the arrests of Don Lemon and Georgia Fort. She says it's connected to a, quote, coordinated attack on city's church in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Now these journalists say they were merely doing their jobs. They were reporting.

I want you to see what happened with our former colleague, now independent journalist, Don Lemon. You're looking at this now. In this clip, he was inside the church, covering the protests that broke out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: I'm just here. I'm not -- I'm just here photographing. I'm not a part of the group. I'm just here photographing. I'm a journalist. We don't know, that's, that's what they're saying. So, we're here just chronicling and reporting. We're not part of the activist, but we're here just reporting on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Don Lemon was arrested in Los Angeles late last night where he was planning to cover the Grammy Awards. It's worth noting that President Trump is really openly not a fan of Don Lemon. He's been slamming Don on social media for almost a decade. Don has not exactly been shy in calling out the president and his administration.

Don Lemon's attorney Abbe Lowell released a statement saying in part, quote, this unprecedented attack on the First Amendment and transparent attempt to distract attention from the many crises facing this administration will not stand. Don will fight these charges vigorously and thoroughly in court.

Now, like Don Lemon, independent journalist Georgia Fort was live streaming as dozens of anti-ICE protesters rushed into city's church. This happened on January 18. And when agents showed up at her door yesterday, she started filming again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this is really scary. There's kids in the house. You guys have not been really friendly in the community. And to me, this seems a little -- can I finish, sir, this can I finish? Can I get your phone. This seems a little bit aggressive to have all these cars in our cul-de-sac. Two or three agents, and now I saw the one disappear to the back. So, to me, this is a little aggressive to just serve a warrant.

GEORGIA FORT, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: This is all stemming from the fact that I filmed a protest as a member of the media. We are supposed to have our constitutional right of the freedom to film, to be a member of the press. I don't feel like I have my First Amendment right as a member of the press, because now federal agents are at my door arresting me for filming the church protests a few weeks ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters here. I want to start by talking about the law, and then I want to start talking about the politics and the purpose of doing this right now. Elon the law?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FIRST AMENDMENT: here's what I think. And again, we haven't seen these charges yet, which is really important. It's very important. But based on Pam Bondi's comments, based on the former charges that came out before. Folks may have heard of the face act. It's legislation that seeks to prohibit interfering with people's exercise of religion. The language specifically says anyone who, by force or threat, intentionally interferes with a person lawfully exercising their First Amendment right to practice their religion. Now I would assume that what the administration is doing is charging---

BASH: I'm going to interrupt you only because we're going to now play a video, we just got from the attorney general herself, making the point you were just making, Elliot?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL (voiceover): Make no mistake under President Trump's leadership and this administration, you have the right to worship freely and safely. And if I haven't been clear already, if you violate that sacred right, we are coming after you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Go ahead, Elliot?

WILLIAMS: Am I good or am I good? I called it so. Needless to say, that's the statute, right? It was passed several years ago. The argument is probably going to be that these individuals, by entering the church forcibly got in the way of people's exercise their religion. And I would also note that in prior social media, Pam Bondi had also said that it was a coordinated attack or assault. [12:05:00]

I think she's suggesting that there's a conspiracy between them, that people agreed or worked together to go in as a group. And I think that's what the charges will be. You know, we'll have to see them when they come out.

BASH: Right. And look, is it possible that, as a reporter, because we all know, if we're told, hey, there's a protest, you should come cover it, then we're probably going to get a text or an email and maybe respond to that. Are they going to use that to show -- to show, it's coordinated?

And I just want to say something else before we get to the -- to the why him and why them and why now, which is, this is really important. Not one, but two judges, said, no, no, this is not going to happen. They rejected the DOJ in -- when they tried to bring these charges against Don Lemon and others. And it was only when the DOJ found a grand jury that they were able to actually get these charges?

WILLIAMS: Right. Commonly when a magistrate judge, that's that first tier of judge that heard the charges, commonly when they say no. The remedy for the Justice Department is then to go to a grand jury, get a majority of people, you know, to vote on the charges. Now, the standard even in a grand jury is very low.

We've all heard the statement a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. It is merely that a majority of those people felt there was probable cause that it's more likely than not that there's at least some evidence of a crime. So, whether they get this past a real jury down the road is a very open question, because it appears thin based on what we've seen, but again, we just haven't seen it all yet.

BASH: OK. Now this is, I think, as important, maybe more important. It's the decision to do this. The DOJ has a lot of options in what they prosecute. I don't know. Like, for example, investigating and looking into what is happening in the murder, the killing. I should change that, the killing of Alex Pretti and others.

There are investigations on that, but there are others that we're waiting for on other issues. They made a decision to do this, and they made a decision to do this, it seems for a reason, Jamie. And that is to make a point to let everybody know that journalists are on notice, and you know, we'll see what the charges are. We'll see what the arguments are when we get the specifics. But again, they did not have to do this. If they did it to try to send a chilling through reporters.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: No question. So let me just start by saying, I have just been told by Abbe Lowell, who is Don Lemon's lawyer. What the charges are. They include 18 U.S.C. 242, 18 U.S.C 248, that that is confirmed by Abbe Lowell, who's Don Lemon's lawyer.

WILLIAMS: 248 was the one I was telling you about, which is, in effect, interfering with someone's exercise of their rights. 242 is the conspiracy charge of the language is deprivation of rights. It's basically getting in the way of someone's civil exercise of a civil right.

GANGEL: So, that's how good Elliot is. He got there ahead of time. So just to put this in some context, the government was turned down twice for these charges by a magistrate in Minnesota, then they appealed it, and that was --

BASH: Can I just read what the judge said and then you continue. This is Chief Judge, Patrick Schiltz. This was on January 23, so last week. The government lumps all eight protesters together and says things that are true of some but not all of them. Two of the five protesters were not protest protesters at all. Instead, they were a journalist and his producer. There is no evidence that those two engaged in any criminal behavior or conspired to do so.

GANGEL: So, let's look at the context. This is not happening in a vacuum. Big picture, we know that our former colleague Don Lemon has been a big critic of Donald Trump. In 2018 he called him racist on our air. Donald Trump has been a huge critic of Don Lemon. He called him in 2023 the dumbest man on television, quote.

So, one question. Is this arrest more about revenge and retribution, which Donald Trump has made clear? There are people he wants to go after. And then one other thing we know, President Trump likes to create distractions. There is a lot going on this week. It was a bad week for the White House, his polling is bad, the ICE raids, the killing of these two Americans, and what's happening today, the Epstein files are being released.

[12:10:00]

BASH: Yeah. Luckily, we have 24 hours and infinity online so we can cover it all. And it's such a good point, Jamie, because we are going to cover it all, but this is a moment. This is a moment that we can't let go. And to your point about the president and how he feels about Don Lemon, and it's mutual. Here's what the White House posted this morning on their social media platform. When life gives you lemons. I mean, they're not only reveling in this, but they are -- this is the official White House social media account on Twitter.

They are trying to make sure that people who care about this who -- I mean, it seems as though there are some people in the MAGA base who are not thrilled with what they perceived as maybe a bit of a retreat in Minneapolis. There are always ways that politicians of all kinds look to placate the base in other ways, and there's no question that this will help do that.

GANGEL: Can I just quickly add some more context? Don Lemon is an independent journalist right now, but he has made his living as a journalist for, you know, more than 20 years that I have known him and worked with him. And the fact that the official Twitter account, X account of the White House would post something like that, is chilling. It sends a message, criticize President Trump at your pearl. This is what happens in authoritarian countries. ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: It's also just another reminder of another broken norm, right? This is still a law enforcement action, and once upon time, the Justice Department was thought to be independent, right? And the White House would not weigh in on these issues. Now, just hours after this, you have the White House actually talking about this, putting out essentially a meme of this instance.

I also think your point too of just the broader context here. Yes, there's still a lot we don't know. There will be a legal process here, but I don't -- but I still think you have to note that this administration throughout the past year, has not embraced dissent, has mobilized the federal government to go after political opponents of this president. And all of his comments as well as those actions will be hanging over something like this as well.

WILLIAMS: And I think, you know, Dana, you made the point before about reporters and journalists often getting a heads up that an event is happening. That is how journalism is practiced. That's every time you see a press conference, and there's journalists there in advance of that.

BASH: Right.

WILLIAMS: If we're going down the road of now charging people on account of perhaps getting heads up about events or whatever else, it's very dangerous for journalists' exercise of the First Amendment, which is just as core and critical to a free society --

KANNO-YOUNGS: Whether it's a politician or a riot, or protest, you'll often reach out to people on the ground and try to get logistics on it as well.

BASH: And we're talking about Don Lemon. He is extremely high profile. He is a friend. He is a former colleague. But I don't want to lose sight of Georgia Fort and what we played for you, because the fact that she live streamed as she was -- she had law enforcement at the door, and her explanation of the job that she said she was doing as a journalist should be underscored as well.

All right. When we come back, 12 hours until a government shutdown. Senators are scrambling to avoid that. And the question right now is, will there be a deal between the president and Democrats that exist, but will it actually hold? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: We're going to right to the White House. President Trump is taking questions from reporters.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He was all set, and I'm looking at the people behind me. They say, what kind of racing is a lot -- a lot nicer than that. They were going to hang 837 people. And I told them, if you do it, you're going to pay a price like nobody has ever paid before. They pulled back. I appreciated that. A lot of people are being killed, so we'll see what happens. I can say this they do want to make a deal.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I can say, yes, they do want to make a deal.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) governors yet, and now they're looking at 50 proposals to increase taxes. What do you think about that?

TRUMP: Well, I think it's terrible. I think a lot of people will leave Virginia. I saw that. Look, Glenn was a friend of mine, Glenn Youngkin, and worked so hard on cutting taxes. This woman came in and in one swoop, she raised everything up higher than it ever was. I don't understand it, I mean, people voted for Democrat, but she came in and she raised and I'll work with her, like I work with everyone else. But she came into Virginia, raised everything to a point like no taxes that nobody ever even heard of before.

And I don't understand how do people get elected with this kind of philosophy? This is only in the very modern age. You know, I grew up and I've always heard politicians will cut taxes. We'll cut everybody's screaming, we're going to cut taxes. I cut taxes. I gave you the biggest tax cut in the history of our country, and the great, big, beautiful bill. No tax on tips, no tax on social security, no tax on overtime.

Interest deductions, Roger, when somebody buys a car, they can deduct the interest if they borrow money. That's the biggest thing in terms of the car business, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American made ones.

TRUMP: Correct. So, we have, you know, I give tax cuts and they give tax increases. I don't know how they get elected. They get elected because they cheat. You want to know the truth. If they didn't cheat -- if they didn't cheat, they'd have no chance. They have horrible policy, transgender for everyone.

They have a little thing about open borders, so that the world's prison population and mental hospitals can be emptied into our country. It's just a crazy. Men playing in women's sports. Roger, are you a fan of men playing in women's sports? Only is it better, she like to bat. You're not a big -- you're not a big fan. I don't think so.

I don't want to get him in trouble, but I think he joins in 99 percent, they say it's an 80-20 issue. I think it said, it's maybe 99, 99.1.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you suing?

TRUMP: Who you with?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm ABC News.

TRUMP: You're a loud person, very loud. Let somebody else have a chance.

[12:20:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you answer the question. Why are you suing IRS?

TRUMP: ABC, fake news. Go ahead. I didn't call on you. Go ahead, please. Go ahead. Go ahead. ABC, by the way, is truly one of the worst. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think the upcoming talks between Russia and Ukraine stand a chance without U.S. envoy with confidence, Jared Kushner there?

TRUMP: I think they stand a chance. We've been trying. I've ended eight wars, all of them I thought were going to be maybe tougher than --

BASH: OK. We're going to continue -- we're going to continue to monitor President Trump in the Oval Office. Will bring you news as it comes. I just want to say that what Karen Travers of ABC News was trying to ask the president was about the fact that he is suing the IRS and the Treasury Department, so the American taxpayer for $10 billion because part of his tax return came out in the public. So that's what he didn't want to answer.

Right now, on Capitol Hill, senators are trying to iron out final snags in a deal to avert a partial government shutdown in the 12 -- in 12 hours rather. Yesterday, they seemed close to one. The White House and Democrats agreed to fund the Department of Homeland Security for two weeks, during which they negotiate reforms to ICE, a pretty big admission by Trump officials that the politics of immigration are not on their side right now, but getting government funding through Congress is really a lot harder than herding cats. And so, there are now new issues holding this up.

My panel is back. You, Andrew, cover Congress, day in and day out. What are you hearing about the latest that's happening with these last minute talks?

ANDREW DESIDERIO, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Yeah. Well, they're trying to get a deal to pass this in the Senate today. Obviously, it takes unanimous consent to get to a quick vote. Lindsey Graham is still speaking on the Senate floor right now, going through his objections, some related to this immigration issue, some unrelated.

I will note that some of what we were talking about earlier with Don Lemon. The arrest of Don Lemon might factor into this and how quickly we could see a vote in the Senate. Well, Senate Democrats have been negotiating with the White House all week on this package in order to get this two-week runway to try to negotiate changes to ICE and reforms to ICE.

Now after that, more conciliatory, de escalatory, if you will, posture from the White House. Democrats are looking at the comments the president has made in the last 24 hours in addition to this, and thinking, well, he's going back on his word. He's reversing himself. So, Democrats have leverage. Any individual senator has leverage, of course, to hold this up, not indefinitely, but for at least a few days.

And I'm told that Senate Democrats are right now considering their options in light of what happened this morning and the news that came out this morning, because of the fact that it directly contradicts the posture that the White House had earlier this week, knowing that this issue is not going well for them.

BASH: That's really interesting and really important, because right now, the reason it's being held up in the Senate is because of Senator Lindsey Graham right now, and it's being held up. It's more of a time thing. It's not going to actually change the votes unless, as you were reporting, Democrats say, forget it, you know, no deal.

And what you're referring to are a couple of things. One, last night President Trump, when he was on the red slash black carpet for the premier of Melania, was asked about whether he was pulling out immigration enforcement agents of Minnesota. He said, no. We want to keep our country safe. Are you pulling back? No, not at all.

And in addition to that, there was another video that came out a couple of days ago of Alex Pretti who was killed over the weekend, and this video was from about 11 days before that incident. And he is seen shouting at agents, kicking their vehicle taillight as they're driving away, and then he's tackled to the ground.

So, President Trump put the following on social media at 1:26 am this morning. Agitator and perhaps insurrectionist, Alex Pretti stock has gone way down with the just released video of him screaming and spitting in the face of a very common under control ICE officer, and then crazily kicking in a new and very expensive government vehicle. And then he went on to say, the ICE officer was calm and cool and not easy to be under control in those circumstances. So, this is the kind of thing that you're referring to, Andrew. What are you hearing at the White House?

KANNO-YOUNGS: Well, it seems that this, what we initially heard just a couple days ago, which was an effort to try to distance the president from the comments made over the weekend by top administration officials, you know, saying using terms like domestic terrorism and assassin.

After that -- after the president received calls from his allies, you saw him try to distance himself from those comments. He said that he was interested in de-escalation. He sent Tom Homan to Minneapolis too, who said that they were interested in a draw down if they could reach an agreement with Minneapolis officials.

[12:25:00]

And then just a day later, you now have this rhetoric, which seems to go back toward the weekend's rhetoric which is casting blame on the victim of this shooting. This is something that Democrats are going to be watching on the Hill, who I would think were more confident over reaching a deal when they heard the rhetoric, at least the intention to calm down the rhetoric. They're going to be watching this.

But also remember, Tom Homan is in active discussions right now with officials in Minnesota that are also watching to see what the administration's intentions are here. If they're actually serious about a potential draw down, comments like this by the president at 1:26 am using terms like insurrectionists, don't exactly back up the argument that you're actually putting in the effort to calm down the situation here and lower the rhetoric, as Tom Homan stated yesterday.

BASH: And another poll came out, Elliot, from Pew Research. And it really sort of -- is speaking to where we are in the moment, where the public is in the moment. Question about ICE officers' behaviors, 61 percent say unacceptable to wear face covering. 72 percent unacceptable to stop people based on looks or language. 52 percent based on being an immigrant, heavy neighborhoods. And then 54 percent unacceptable to arrest U.S. citizens, helping people avoid ICE, Jamie?

GANGEL: So, I just was writing down the words, who is he talking to? Because one of the things that you know in the middle of the night is he's probably hearing from people who are saying, your MAGA base doesn't like this. And so, then you get this outburst. On the other hand, these polls you're seeing, not only is he under water on approval ratings, but he is under water on has the president gone too far with the ICE raids?

And I also think it's notable to look at the independence in these polls. When you go through these different things on different issues, but all ones he cares about, 70 to 75 percent of independents do not approve of what he's doing. That's what every Republican is looking at when they're thinking about the mid-term elections in '28.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Who is talking to here? I can answer that, by the way, because that determines the shift we've seen. Over the weekend, there was Republican allies saying, hey, this doesn't look good. These images don't look good for you. They don't look good for your immigration agenda. And there was a concern about that. Then, you know, over the last couple days, you've also had Steve Bannon get on his podcast and criticize --

BASH: They don't give up, don't give it.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Right, right. And this is a president that doesn't like the appearance of retreating for that MAGA base as well?

BASH: Yeah. He's constitutionally small c, very much opposed to any sort of appearance of giving in at all. Up next. Why is Tulsi Gabbard running point on running down President Trump's baseless claims of election fraud? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)