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Inside Politics

Maxwell Pleads The 5th, Won't Answer Questions At House Hearing; New Details On Jeffrey Epstein's Relationship With Steve Bannon; Jeffries: The Ball Is In The Republicans' Court. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired February 09, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Digging for answers. Lawmakers sift through the unredacted Epstein files as the convicted sex offenders accomplice stays silent.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We start with breaking news. Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell is sending an extraordinary message to President Trump, a clean slate for clemency. It was a virtual deposition before the House Oversight Committee just this morning where Maxwell pled the fifth to all the questions she was asked, but her attorney also says that he told the panel the following.

Quote, if this committee and the American public truly want to hear the unfiltered truth about what happened, there is a straightforward path. Ms. Maxwell is prepared to speak fully and honestly if granted clemency by President Trump. Only she can provide the complete account. Some may not like what they hear, but the truth matters. For example, both President Trump and President Clinton are innocent of any wrongdoing.

Here's how the committee's chairman, Republican Congressman James Comer summed it up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Unfortunately, she had an opportunity today to answer questions that every American has, questions that would be very important in this investigation, and she chose to invoke her Fifth Amendment right. Her attorney said, Maxwell didn't say. Her attorney said that she would answer questions if she were granted clemency by the President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters here, including MJ Lee. MJ, you've been following this, reporting on this, including and especially what went on behind closed doors today.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. On the surface, this deposition was exactly what we expected. It was virtual, because Maxwell is in prison right now. It was short because we knew -- we expected that she was going to plead the fifth, but we really shouldn't miss the political headline, as you just laid it out that came from her lawyer, which was basically to state that if she were to get clemency from Donald Trump, she is willing to prove that he is innocent when it comes to wrong doings related to Jeffrey Epstein.

I think this was the most explicit. Here is what I can give you in return position that Maxwell has taken publicly again through her lawyer. And why this is so critical, and why we need to actually take this seriously is because President Trump has been asked multiple times about potentially pardoning her, potentially commuting her sentence, and he's never explicitly said, no, that's a crazy idea.

And I think this idea, particularly among the survivors and victims, that somehow Maxwell may walk away from this a free woman, is devastating, and that's why we saw this letter from the survivors that was entered into the deposition today, and it says, in part, Ms. Maxwell was not a peripheral figure. She was a central and indispensable architect of Jeffrey Epstein sex traffic and enterprise. But she seems to be basically saying, I agree, I was central, and by the way, I'm the only person that can prove without a doubt that Trump is innocent.

BASH: I mean, talk about like throwing down the gauntlet. Seung Min Kim, I want to hear what you're hearing from sources at the White House about it. Before I do, Robert Garcia, the congressman who is the top Democrat on this Oversight Committee, said the following. Let's be clear, Maxwell is a known liar, and her lawyer told us that only she knows the truth but won't talk unless she gets clemency. She wants a pardon, and the American people won't be fooled, right?

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, AP: I mean, this is something that, as MJ said, that the President and the White House, more broadly, has been asked about multiple times. And every time he gets this question, or Caroline Levick gets the question. We get answers such as, this is something that he has actually not given thought to, or the president says, I'll look into it, but no commitments. And that's why this sort of blatant quid for pro quote that Ghislaine Maxwell is proposing is such -- such a big deal.

And we know how the president can be influenced on the pardons that he does game. You know, we see a lot of pardons pop up, and we know it's because, you know, an ally got in his ear, or there's kind of a very clear reason of President Trump's interest in granting clemency to this person.

So when Ghislaine Maxwell our lawyers putting it out there and saying, I for, you know, once and for all, can clear your name, that is something that certainly the president that is designed to get in the president's ear and the president's head about what he can or should do, or what he would do regarding a prison sentence.

JAMIE GANGEL, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: But there is also political fallout from that. What is the one time we have seen the Republicans in Congress stand up and with the exception of one person, vote to release the files. They know that their constituents want this information out there. It is not going to be good for them politically.

[12:05:00]

I'll add one other thing. Look, there are 3 million documents that members of Congress now can go in and look at, unredacted. I'm not sure that Ghislaine Maxwell can exonerate anyone because we don't know what's out there.

BASH: Yeah. Well, I think the politics of this are so complicated, which you just laid out. On the one hand, the idea of the president personally wanting to be exonerated, it's obviously a very big opening for him. On the other hand, it's what you both said, which is that Ghislaine Maxwell is the only one who is suffering at all through the judicial system for the -- this ring that she was involved in with Jeffrey Epstein.

And so, it's making that sort of decision for the resident, I mean, who knows what's going to go on through his head and who knows what he really is going to consider? But meanwhile, you do have this discussion about whether or not more information can come out continuing, not just sort of among objective journalists like us.

But also specifically and deliberately in the space where this was kept alive for years, conservative media and Ro Khanna, who is not a conservative, he is a progressive Democrat, went on the program of Shawn Ryan, who is somebody who's got a good fan base in the conservative world. And he was very clear about asking for help in keeping the story alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA) (voiceover): Two Americas, there are two tiers of justice. If you're rich, if you're powerful, if you fund universities and nonprofits, you can do the most heinous things. Like you can show up to an island where young girls are being raped and have no consequence.

SHAWN RYAN, HOST, THE SHAWN RYAN SHOW (voiceover): What do you think is going to happen?

KHANNA (voiceover): It depends. I mean, it depends if people like you are going to continue to bang the drum. That's one of the reasons I'm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, that's exhibit a of how the politics of this whole matter are not like the- politics on virtually any other issue. The lines here are crossing into Jamie's point of the constituents have demanded something. I mean, we cannot really think of another example of a moment where so many Republicans went against the president's role. So, he had to assign this. I think that one thing that the president -- I'm the White House don't want is to keep this story alive for the rest of his time in office. So, look, I would be very surprised if clemency was granted. I mean, that would inflame his base, but, I mean, we certainly have to take it seriously. As MJ said, I mean, he has not ruled it out, and he's had multiple opportunities over the last year or so, but also some members of Congress, like Ro Khanna and others are going to the Justice Department to look at the unredacted files, and that is something that is also going to keep this open and keep this alive.

But one thing that we haven't talked about, the lawyer also said that President Trump and President Clinton are both innocent here. So, that also speaks to the next sort of chapter of this, that the Clintons are supposed to be having a deposition, which has its own complications, obviously, at the end of February. But I thought that was also an interesting note that they were sort of combined in that same phrase.

BASH: On the idea that there are members of Congress who are looking at the unredacted documents. CNN has a story that you were a part of reporting. Up right now, a CNN review of the Epstein documents identified several examples of people whose identities were blacked out, possibly helping to connect him with women, including redacted coconspirators in a much anticipated draft indictment of Epstein from the 2000s. And just want to give a couple of examples from your story of people whose identities were redacted. We don't know why.

And this one, I think, is, I think totally your girl. This is a November 15 email to Jeffrey Epstein, send her redacted 2014 email in the files a person wrote to Epstein. Thank you for a fun night. Your littlest girl was a little naughty. I mean, first of all, it just -- you don't get chills reading that there's something missing, there's a chip missing.

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But the big question right now is, are those members of Congress who are reading the files, who know who those senders are. What are they going to find out and whether or not that is what is going to keep the pressure on.

LEE: Well, that's right, you know, and for that story, when we reached out to the DOJ, their explanation was, look, per the law, we had to redact any names of victims. The suggestion being that, even in those kinds of examples, those names are redacted because they were victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

And it happens to be true that in sex trafficking, it is not uncommon for a victim of sexual abuse to then get recruited into recruiting. We know many examples of women who say, look, it started out as myself being abused, and then I felt pressure to bring more girls to Jeffrey Epstein. So, is that totally out of the question that that might be the truth. No, but we don't know. And that is the point.

And I think, you know, the DOJ has basically guaranteed that this is going to continue being a story by one releasing, you know, some three and a half million documents and files that were perhaps improperly redacted, but then by also holding back millions of more files. I mean, there is such an outrage sense of outrage right now about the lack of transparency that there is so much more information that isn't known to the public because of what they've held back and because of what they've redacted.

BASH: Speaking of that, coming up, we have new reporting on Steve Bannon's relationship -- friendship, really, with Jeffrey Epstein, you're going to hear what they were texting about, literally the day before Epstein's 2019 arrest. And later the Super Bowl performance that launched a thousand takes.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: The release of the Epstein files reveals so many connections between Jeffrey Epstein and some of the most powerful people in the world, that includes politics. CNN's Steve Contorno has dug into the close relationship between Epstein and Steve Bannon. And now this is a new story that is a must read. It's how Jeffrey Epstein sought to help Steve Bannon build a global populist movement.

Steve joins me now. Steve again, this is an excellent and perry very thoroughly reported piece. What should people take away from this maybe surprisingly close relationship between the two men.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Dana, there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of text messages and emails between Jeffrey Epstein and Steve Bannon. In fact, Bannon was one of the final people to converse with Epstein before his arrest. They were actually supposed to get breakfast the next day.

Take a look at this text exchange that they had on July 6, 2019. This is the day that he was arrested. They were talking about their plans to get together that following day, when suddenly Epstein says all canceled. And this comes just minutes after federal authorities intercepted him at a New Jersey airport.

So really, one of the last people to talk to Epstein as a free man was Steve Bannon, according to these text messages and these messages show that they had a very close relationship. At one point, he is referred to by Epstein as a friend. That is Bannon. So, but it wasn't just that they were friends and that they were constant communication and getting breakfast together. They were also, in many respects, planning together and helping each other on the world stage.

At this moment, Steve Bannon had been working to spread populism throughout the world. That same sort of right-wing revolt that helped push Donald Trump to the presidency. He was trying to get across the globe and push countries in Europe and South America to take advantage of that same sort of populous sentiments. And Epstein was helping in that respect, and Bannon leaned on him at times.

Look at this message that Bannon sent to Epstein in 2018, asking for help. He says, do you know anyone in Europe that wants to control the European parliament and with it, the E.U. and Epstein response by offering him help and guidance throughout the way. At one point, he says Europe can be a wife and not a mistress, and encouraging him to spend more time in Europe, which Bannon then does.

He goes on a barnstorming tour of Europe, Europe where he is constantly speaking to packed rooms, and all along the way, he is having conversations with Epstein about what he should say, what work and having their workshopping, how he's going to connect with these audiences. So just these messages, these emails, and again, there are hundreds of them show that this was a close relationship, but it was also surrounded around their overlapping interests on the world stage, Dana.

BASH: Yeah. And no, we talked before the -- or during the break. No evidence that you see that there was any connection between Bannon and Epstein with regard to what Epstein was finally arrested for that just, you know, while he was texting, or just shortly after he was texting with Bannon, which, of course, was this being a part in the sex rings.

[12:20:00]

CONTORNO: That's right. We didn't see anything in the unredacted files at this point that would suggest Bannon wasn't involved in any of that. And I should also point out that I did reach out to Steve Bannon for comments and did not hear back.

BASH: OK, Steve, thank you again, and you can see the QR code there. Well, you could see it. Hopefully you were able to get it. And if not, I do encourage you just to go on cnn.com because it's a really extraordinary piece of reporting. Thanks again, Steve.

MJ, as somebody who has really dug into these, I know its probably didn't surprise you that much, but still just thinking about some of the things that Steve was just reporting on, including that Bannon was asking Epstein if he happened to know anybody who wants to run a country. I mean, talk about deep state.

LEE: Yeah. And you know, when you're going through Steve's excellent story and you see the dates of the two men's exchanges, 2018, 2019, I think everybody should keep in mind, 2008 as a really important marker, and a year, that is the year that Jeffrey Epstein was convicted in Florida for trying to procure prostitution from a minor. It is not as though, you know this was somebody where, you know, rumors were constantly swirling around him. You know, he's a bad see, but I don't know.

I mean, he was a convicted person. Everything that you could have known about a person that they are not, somebody that you should be socializing with, exchanging messages with. I mean, this was all known at this point, and yet, so many men in all of these files, wealthy men, people in business, people in politics, they grovel to him, and so did their wives by the way. It just is such a clear, you know, display of why he was and continues to be so dangerous in the minds of all these names. BASH: We're talking about 11 years before these text exchanges and he was arrested again.

GANGEL: Couple of takeaways. Steve Bannon didn't care, right? He was perfectly happy to have this relationship. The texts are really worth reading, just because of the nature of the politics and back and forth. You get the sense that Epstein, who didn't have that many friends left at this point, clearly wants to be a player. And what's interesting is, early on, if you go back before his conviction, he was giving money, it appears to the Clinton Foundation. Now he's interested in far-right populist politics. So, he seemed willing to play with whomever would have him at the table.

ZELENY: And I think to your point, I mean, by that point, there were fewer people in communication with him, so Steve Bannon was obviously one of them. But Steve Bannon was obviously around in the first term of Trump. He knew very well the controversy from Alex Acosta and the whole plea deal in South Florida, so he knew all of this. And to your point, he didn't care.

BASH: All right, we're going to sneak in a quick break. Up next. The Department of Homeland Security is days away from running out of money. Is there any hope of a deal to avoid a partial shutdown again?

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BASH: We're days away from the Department of Homeland Security running out of money as the short-term truce that kept the government open comes to an end. And Democrats and Republicans are nowhere near agreement on new guardrails for ICE. Listen to what House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries told me yesterday on State of the Union.

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REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): The ball is in the court right now of the Republicans, either they're going to agree to dramatically reform the way in which ICE and other immigration enforcement agencies are conducting themselves, so that they're behaving like every other law enforcement agency in the country, or they're making the explicit decision to shut down the coast guard, shut down FEMA and shut down TSA.

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BASH: My panel is back. Seung Min, the ball is in Republicans court, and the Republicans on Capitol Hill are waiting for the president to weigh in. And the question is, will he?

KIM: Well, I mean, it's a really difficult situation because we're talking about policy changes that in any normal time would take weeks, if not months, to negotiate. Because these are really tricky -- really tricky issues with really vast implications and we know that the Democratic leaders actually got a more aggressive in their ass, kind of expanding their list of what they --

BASH: We can put those on the list.

KIM: -- yeah, expanding their list of what they are asking for from Republicans and Democrats. And just on a timing level, I mean, DHS funding runs out in a matter of days. This is something you should have gotten a policy deal, probably sometime last week to kind of make it through in time to avert a shutdown.

Right now, congressional Republicans really do need a signal or a statement from the president on what he is willing to accept. But there are certain things that have been really big red lines for Republicans. First of all, the issue of masks, whether the ICE agent should be masked or not.

Democrats say that's a red line for them that they have to be required to not wear them. Republicans say, that's a red line for them, that they are concerned about agents getting dox that they have to be shielded in order to protect their safety. There have been sort of middle-solutions proposed in that, perhaps maybe wearing badges with their names, but wearing -- having their faces covered. But that's just one of several issues that are up for debate right now.

BASH: And you know, one of the things that I talked about with Hakeem Jeffries yesterday was the fact that because of the big, beautiful bill that