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Trump On Iranian Negotiators: "All They Do Is Make Me Angry"; Trump: DOJ Weaponization Fund Is Dead, But "I Wish It Weren't"; Democratic Socialist Vies To Be Next Governor Of Wisconsin; Tuesday: Big Test For Far Left In Michigan Democratic Primary; Democratic Rep. Hillary Scholten Won't Commit To Supporting El-Sayed If He Wins Primary. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired July 31, 2026 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: It's this sort of retaliatory striking that continues indefinitely, that is the worst thing that we could be doing. That doesn't mean that's not what the President is ultimately going to stick with.

MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Right, but knowing how Trump thinks, and knowing that of those three options, withdraw, escalate, or just stay somewhere in between, the default bias takes over. We're already in the in-between, and the other two have so many more sort of risks, political ego perhaps, and otherwise, that it right now seems to default to where we are.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: And just also where we are is 90-something days before the midterm elections, where according to CNN's poll this week, which is in keeping with pretty much every poll that we have seen recently, approval of the President's job handling of Iran, 28 percent. So that means almost three-quarters of the respondents do not approve of the way he's handling Iran. And what he just told us in this cabinet meeting is, buckle up, because what we have been seeing is not likely to stop anytime soon.

JASMINE WRIGHT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NOTUS: And the Republicans that were praying for diplomacy to prevail and for this to be a quick end to the war are obviously on the losing side of this discussion. I mean, bringing it back to politics for a second, every operative I talked to in the beginning of April, May, even June, said, look, the President's going to wrap this up, and we're going to get back to a place at the end of the summer, maybe September, where you're seeing low gas prices, you're seeing low prices at the grocery store, and you're seeing Republicans say, we handled Iran, we can handle everything, vote for us come November, and you're just not seeing that reality come through.

BURNS: They keep saying there's going to be an off-ramp, there's going to be an off-ramp, and that's not what we're seeing now.

BASH: We have to squeeze in a break in one second, but I do want to make sure to underscore what the President said about that anti- weaponization fund. Because on the one hand, he said, oh, no, no, it's not happening, but most of his comment on it was speaking in favor of it, why it is a good thing. And he said, "To be honest, I think people were horribly treated, horribly abused."

He said, "It's not about me. I'd like to see them compensated for their pain. They lost families. They committed suicide. People committed suicide." And at one point he said, "They were just going to a rally or an event." I think he was referring to January 6th.

And it is that kind of comment that has the two Republican senators at least publicly saying, oh, no, no, we're not going to give you a blank check to give money to people who made us unsafe --

CAPUTO: Right.

BASH: -- and who were coming to the Capitol, not all of them, but some of them, including those who were prosecuted and then pardoned by the President, who were very much not just going to a rally or going to an event.

WRIGHT: Right. If John Cornyn or Thom Tillis could cut an ad, even though they're not running anymore, to say this is a reason why we're putting up this fight, they would cut those -- that sentence from the President, because he is talking favorably about it. Even though everybody at the White House when you talk to say, it's dead, it's dead, it's not moving forward, there's no need for language.

Then the President says that and it makes it clear for folks who still are supportive of John Cornyn and Thom Tillis, why they are putting this energy into such a public fight with the President.

CAPUTO: It's a good sign that all politics is personal.

BASH: Well, especially for this President. And he's -- he also --

CAPUTO: And for the Senate.

BASH: For the Senate.

CAPUTO: They don't want to give that money because of --

BASH: Yes. And he said -- look, I get it. I get why he's doing this. If it were me and I didn't win a primary because of an endorsement on the other side, I'd probably be doing the same thing.

OK. A socialist is poised to win the Democratic gubernatorial primary in Wisconsin. Can Francesca Hong win in November? She'll be here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:38:24]

BASH: In the last 24 hours, there's been another shake up in the Democratic primary in the Wisconsin Governor's race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MANDELA BARNES (D), FORMER WISCONSIN GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Last night I had a very difficult conversation with my staff. Now we're incredibly proud of all the things that we've accomplished. And all the resources that we have raised to spread our message. But it's become very clear who our nominee is going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That is former Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes. He's out and the likely nominee he was referring to is State Assembly member Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong.

The winner of the August 11th primary in Wisconsin will likely face Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany in November. You see her there. Francesca Hong is joining me now.

Thank you so much for being here. We started this interview yesterday. You had some problems with your signal. We appreciate you coming back.

A lot has changed since then as I just mentioned. There are a lot of people who are excited about the change in Wisconsin. Some of those people are actually Republicans because they think that you're beatable. So much so that they spent around $3 million to boost your candidacy in this Democratic primary race. How will you convince swing voters who think you're too far to the left to support you?

FRANCESCA HONG (D), WISCONSIN GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: They also know that their candidate is one of the weakest candidates that they could put forth. Tom Tiffany is an election denier and traitor. And he supports a national abortion ban as well as losing health care and supports Americans losing health care, millions of folks across the state. I think with more moderate voters that we recognize that this moment is not just a movement moment, but our coalition continues to grow.

[12:40:05]

And our coalition is bipartisan. Republicans with Hong signs in their yard that our folks are in rural, urban, and suburban communities. It is incredibly exciting that an Organizing First campaign continues to help communities grow their organizing skills as well and come to support our campaign.

BASH: You have been distancing yourself from the National Democratic Socialist platform. I heard you in an interview this morning doing that most recently. In that interview on Fox, you said you don't support, for example, abolishing the Senate, abolishing the Defense Department, abolishing the Supreme Court, which are all part of the platform.

But there are some bread and butter issues that I want to ask you about that are also in the DSA platform. And it's under a headline, "A Day Without Capitalism." And I'm going to read it. "Speaking of bills, you don't really have them anymore. You have no debt. You don't have health insurance. You don't pay a mortgage or have a landlord. Food, education, energy, medicine, and transportation aren't for-profit businesses. They are common goods and utilities." Would these be your goals if you were governor of Wisconsin?

HONG: I was a small business owner for over seven years. And I believe in organizing worker power and unions as well. And I think it's important to recognize the practical and sensible solutions that we need right now. And that's permanent affordability.

That's ensuring that we've got healthy school meals in our school, that we're raising the minimum wage, that we ensure paid leave, and that everyone has access to fairer, cheaper health care across our state. And we're building affordable housing. Folks are excited when I talk about a public bank that allows people to actually build more affordable housing, create good union construction jobs, and make sure that our small businesses can thrive.

BASH: Yes. And I -- that makes perfect sense. But you said this morning that you pay dues to the Democratic Socialist Party. And what they are talking about, at least in part of their platform, is -- I mean, it sounds a little bit utopian. I don't know. It depends where your point of view is. That food, education, energy, medicine, transportation would be common goods and utilities.

Is that your ultimate goal? I understand the political realities of being in a purple state. But if you could, would those be the kinds of policies you would be able to implement?

HONG: My whole chapter, DSA Madison, we have focused so much on making sure that we're helping to meet community needs. And we didn't actually pursue the national DSA endorsement. And as I've mentioned, there aren't things that I completely agree with right now.

And I want to focus on building permanent affordability for all Wisconsinites, where people feel like this is a state they belong to. And, you know, being born and raised in my home state and recognizing that this is a place where I can open a business, where I can be a single mom and still feel very cared for in the community. But this isn't the reality for too many people across Wisconsin. And so I think that for us, making sure that we're putting working class people first is the type of government we want to build, a government that is a force of good.

BASH: You posted a lot about the police back in 2020 and 2021. You wrote, "I support defunding the police as a first step towards abolishing the police and that reform can't be an option." I know you say that a governor cannot defund the police and that you do not want to, quote, "govern by slogan."

I just want to be clear. Does this mean that you no longer believe in the goal of defunding and ultimately abolishing the police that you posted about five years ago?

HONG: I believe that safety is a human right. That I'm going to be a governor that is more serious about public safety than any other governor. And I'm willing to work with community organizers, faith leaders, local governments where public -- many of our public safety systems are funded. And if anyone believes in defunding the police, it's been Robin Vos and the Republicans in the state legislature who have ruled the legislature for over 16 years and have no qualms around defunding our local governments, where these are folks who provide some of the most essential services in preventing violence and making sure that we're getting guns off of our street.

And so to be serious about public safety, I'm most interested in making sure that we are being tough on the causes. If we're going to be tough on crime and make sure that we build community safety all across the state.

BASH: Did your opinion change then on defunding the police?

HONG: I think that people can evolve, that I am going to be a sensible and practical government and governor that is going to make sure that public safety is a priority and --

BASH: So you evolved on that.

HONG: -- actually get serious safety.

[12:45:10]

I think that what, you know, my values are, are where some of my beliefs are as well. But where my values are is in -- making sure that public safety is for everyone, that everyone has access to it. And I think that, you know, what I believed in the past, like, that can evolve.

But I still know that I cannot defund police as governor. And what I want to do is making sure that we're fully funding, investing in the community programs that we know actually work, that data shows, build community safety. And again, the belief that I have, the values that I hold, is that everyone has a right to feel safe and be safe.

BASH: I just want to -- just to sort of put a fine point on it. You said your views can evolve. Have your views actually evolved on defunding the police?

HONG: We had a police shooting in my hometown of Madison, Wisconsin. It's actually the third one to happen on Willy Street, which is in my district. And it's difficult for me to think about what I would say to a mother who has lost their children to police violence.

But I know that we can change these systems that must be changed. There are folks who work in prisons. They have some of the highest suicide rates for any employment that we need to make sure that every incarcerated person can live a life of dignity.

That 99 percent of incarcerated folks in our state will be going into community. And we have to lower those recidivism rates, make sure to invest in mental health resources, in tackling the opioid epidemic.

BASH: Yes.

HONG: And I think that when we have a governor that believes in those things, we can achieve public safety.

BASH: OK. I didn't hear a yes or a no there, but let's move on. A reporter asked your likely Republican opponent, Tom Tiffany, yesterday about what he would say to a voter undecided between you and him. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM TIFFANY (R), WISCONSIN GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Tom Tiffany, he is one of us. I grew up in this state. I raised my family in this state. We -- me and my wife had a small business in this state. I love this state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: As you mentioned in this interview, you were born and raised in Madison, Wisconsin. You're raising your son there. You started a business there. What do you think he meant?

HONG: I -- you know, I hope this is a voter that I can meet. That they understand that not only am I somebody who's relatable and has the lived experience to fight for making sure that all of these things are available to everyone across the state. But I believe that, you know, the support from Republicans, Independents, folks who want to challenge the status quo and know that this economy is rigged against working class people.

I'm not sure why he may have said that, but I certainly want to meet him and make sure that we have a conversation and that he knows who Tom Tiffany is. Tom Tiffany is a pedophile protector. He wants to rip food away from our children, and he will be a puppet for the Trump regime, and he won't put Wisconsinites first.

He'll put that interest of special interest corporation. And they call him Mr. Mining because he has no concern around the environmental impact of mining or in making sure that we're not selling out our natural resources to billionaires and tech corporations.

And I will say, too, that he does not support a moratorium on construction of AI data centers. And that is not only legislation that I've introduced, but it is a deeply bipartisan issue where folks know that they don't want these in their communities. And I don't think that Tom Tiffany would be a candidate who cares about that at all.

BASH: Assuming that you do, in fact, win your primary on August 11th, this is going to be a very interesting race. Thank you for being on. Appreciate it. I'm glad it all worked out today, and I hope you come back.

HONG: Dana, I will absolutely be back.

BASH: OK.

HONG: Thank you so much for having me.

BASH: Thank you. And from the Badger State to the Wolverine State, our Midwest preview continues as the progressives face their first big battle in just four days in a purple state as Michigan Democrats head to the polls.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:53:57]

BASH: The road to Senate control will run through Michigan. The Democratic primary is this coming Tuesday and it is the biggest test yet for the far left who's trying to nominate candidates like the one in Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK: Dr. Abdul El-Sayed and I may come from different places, but we're forged from the same fight.

ABDUL EL-SAYED, MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: For money out of politics, money in your pocket and Medicare --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: For all. That's the part they can't stand. That's why billionaires are spending millions to bury Abdul and this movement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Last night, his opponent, Congresswoman Haley Stevens, posted this on X. It's kind of a summation of her entire campaign. "Abdul," she wrote, "everyone in America understands you want to blame all of your problems on Jewish Americans. But buddy, let me be very clear. I will lower the costs of groceries, ban stock trading for elected officials, stop Trump's abuses of power and protect Michigan manufacturing.

And you'll just be a celebrity whining and writing books to get even richer. You're part of the complainer class looking for the next book or podcast deal. Bro, I just want to work for Michigan."

[12:55:05]

And my panel is here now. Dasha?

BURNS: Bro.

CAPUTO: Bro.

BURNS: Bro has entered the political vernacular. Listen, as a political junkie, I'm obsessed with this race because this just distills everything that the Democratic Party is working through right now. Like all of their feelings are on massive display here in Michigan. And I think that it actually might be really important for El-Sayed to win this, to really test the theory that establishment Democrats have, which is that if someone this far left wins and runs against a Republican that they are going to lose.

I don't know. I just don't -- I don't know what what the answer to that's going to be. But I think whatever the answer is, is going to set up the conversation for 2028.

BASH: Yes. Yes, no, absolutely. And also, it's worth reminding that Michigan is part of what was the blue wall. And it has been so close statewide on the presidential level. 2016, I mean, it was 2 percent -- two-tenths of a percentage point between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Joe Biden won not by a lot against Donald Trump. And same goes for Trump against Harris in 2024.

WRIGHT: Yes, I was talking to a source who is really steeped in Michigan politics. And they reminded me of something that I think is very crucial to this conversation when we're talking about the general, right? Which is that at least Elissa Slotkin only won by 0.3 percent for her general against Mike Rogers, right?

Mike Rogers is not a Ken Paxton --

BASH: And he's the one running in the Republican side.

WRIGHT: Yes. And he would be the potential nominee for the Republican side. He's not Ken Paxton. He's not someone so on the far right. He is a more moderate Republican that has run in the state time and time again. And so whoever Democrats choose in this, quite frankly, really nasty primary race --

BASH: Yes.

WRIGHT: -- is going to be really important. And I think that people feel that Abdul El-Sayed is in a good position unlike perhaps Haley Stevens.

BASH: Well, let's just look. You talk about how nasty it is and how much this is splitting Democrats. We can put on the screen some familiar political faces to kind of show you how this is breaking down. Those who support Haley Stevens. You have everybody from the current retiring senator. Hopefully we'll get it soon.

Gary Peters all the way to the current Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer. And you saw in the ad that we started the segment with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. There you see it. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and kind of the who's who of the progressive left who is supporting Abdul El-Sayed.

CAPUTO: I think it's important to always judge races, not just on ideology, but on candidate quality. And I am not qualified to pretend that I understand the mind of the Michigan voter. But I've seen enough television and I've seen enough of Stevens and El-Sayed that he presents himself as a tough guy and as a fighter. And she comes across as a little sort of more goofy.

And I think that might be the best explanation if he wins for why he's winning, not necessarily his ideology. And as it carries over to the general election, I think Rogers has a problem on his hands if he faces a candidate like that. Rogers did lose as a Republican in a state that the Republican at the top of the ticket won.

And now he's going to go against a guy who is certainly not shy about taking the fight to Republicans. Is it too much? I don't know. Is socialism going to be that much of a deal breaker for voters? Not sure.

BASH: Yes. I mean --

CAPUTO: I do know that when Donald Trump is in office, it's always a great midterm for the socialists.

BASH: She actually went viral for what was first mocked as a goofy moment, saying she was going to fight for Michigan. And then she owned it. And I think it's actually kind of working for --

CAPUTO: But she's still down by 10 points in almost every poll.

BASH: Let me actually just again talk about how this is really tearing apart the Democrats. I want to read a comment, statement from congressman -- Congresswoman Hillary Scholten from Michigan, Democrat. "I will not stand beside someone who has allowed distinctly anti- American sentiments to enter our public dialogue. I think that he," meaning El-Sayed, "has not done enough to hold his supporters in check for some of the rampant sexist things that have come out against Haley Stevens, even in his own words," she said.

BURNS: Look, I sat down with El-Sayed for an interview a few weeks ago. And when it comes to those issues, to Marc's point, he is a very good politician in that he keeps bringing the message back to getting money out of politics and keeps pointing at Stevens for the amount of money that he's getting in this race.

I think that he has been able to inoculate himself from some of these attacks just by focusing -- I mean, you saw Hong just do this in your interview where she goes back to those lines of the economy is rigged against you, challenging the status quo. And he has built his campaign around that.

Now, listen, yes, we have seen this race get nasty. We've seen supporters get nasty. We've seen some comments fly back and forth. My colleague Adam Wren got some leaked audio where El-Sayed called Senator Fetterman an ogre. I mean, this is not the Midwest nice rhetoric --

BASH: Yes. All right --

BURNS: -- coming from that side. But some voters do want to see a fighter and that's what he's doing.

BASH: Thank you all for joining me today. Thank you for joining Inside Politics. Please join me on Sunday on State of the Union. For now, CNN News Central starts right now.