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Isa Soares Tonight
Ukraine's President Zelenskyy Vows To Retake Crimea By Any Means Possible; U.S. Set To Announce $3 Billion Aid On Ukraine Independence Day; U.S. Embassy Urges Americans To Leave Ukraine Immediately; U.S. Set To Announce Ukraine Security Package Up To $3 Billion; Turkiye Continues Balancing Act Between Ukraine And Russia; Flooding Grounds Hundreds Of Flights At Dallas Airport; Over 800 Dead In Pakistan Flooding; Haitian Demonstrators Angry Over Rising Crime And Inflation. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 23, 2022 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, we are covering all the angles, nearly
six months into Russia's war on Ukraine. The Ukrainian president vows to take back Crimea by any means necessary, without consulting allies about
the tactics.
That as we're learning of a massive new security package the U.S. is set to announce on Ukraine's Independence Day. We have the details of that $3
billion package. But first, we begin with urgent new warnings about the security situation in Ukraine. As the country is now just hours away, in
fact, from marking its independence from Soviet rule.
The U.S. says Russia could strike government as well as civilian facilities, warning that conditions could deteriorate in an instant. It is
urging Americans to leave Ukraine immediately using private ground transportation. Ukraine's government is also warning of the risk of
escalated attacks, telling people to take air raid sirens seriously.
But instead of leaving the danger zone, well, you see it there, Poland's president entered it today, visiting the heart of Kyiv. He met with
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy who is promising quote, "a powerful response if Russia attacks the capital". Mr. Zelenskyy also vowed all of
Ukraine will be liberated from Russian control. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): We will get Crimea back by any means we deem right without consulting other countries.
As for direct attacks, Ukraine doesn't attack any civilians, neither in foreign countries nor on temporarily-occupied Ukrainian territory. We know
what we are doing. We know where the military objects and depots are. Ukrainian soldiers are able to work according to plan there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And just moments ago, we have learned that the U.S. is set to announce a security package of up to $3 billion on Ukraine's Independence
Day. That's by far the biggest U.S. assistance package since the start of the war on February 24th. CNN's Oren Liebermann is live at the Pentagon
with his reporting on that massive security package.
But first, I want to go to Sam Kiley who joins us from Kyiv. Sam spoke today with Ukraine's Defense Minister. And Sam, as I've just clearly
outlined there, there's clearly a heightened sense of alertness, a fear of strikes. Is this shared by the defense minister you spoke to, what did he
tell you tonight?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the defense minister was very grateful for the help that the international community
has been giving Ukraine. And this latest package, which he didn't hint at in my interview, but he must have known about it, will be very welcome.
Because I asked him in this interview whether or not he was concerned that six months into this war, when it appeared to be drifting towards a
stalemate, he must be concerned that the Romans almost, of the war, the international --
SOARES: Yes --
KILEY: Support for plucky Ukraine in the face of what appears to be Russian aggression might wear off among donors, and this was his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLEKSIY REZNIKOV, DEFENSE MINISTER, UKRAINE: I call it fatigue syndrome, yes. And for me, it's one of the main threats that we need to work with
this threat, because we need to speak like with you to communicate, to ask people, don't be on this fatigue.
KILEY: I know it --
REZNIKOV: Because this is very dangerous for us. That's why we need to -- that's why my president, every day, he makes his speeches with a different
part of the world, with the universities, parliament, government, et cetera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KILEY: Now, the hyperactive president of Ukraine is obviously famous for his very high level of speeches, numbers of speeches --
(CLEARS THROAT)
Excuse me, around the world. But the real point here being made, and why this package that we hear about from Oren is going to be so important, is
that this combat on this extended frontline is all about trying to get the upper hand in terms of the initiative, maintaining momentum. If it goes
into a stalemate, that is a Russian victory.
It means that the Russians will be able to permanently destabilize Ukraine, prevent it from becoming a fully functional pro-western democracy, prevent
it ultimately perhaps from joining the European Union, and that ultimately is Vladimir Putin's aim.
[14:05:00]
Whatever his other claims about NATO membership might be. It's really about making sure that this country remains unstable, and it is for that reason
that the Ukrainians are now talking about a new phase in the coming months in the war. They say they want to get on the front foot. Isa.
SOARES: Sam Kiley there for us, thanks very much, Sam. Let me go to Oren. Oren, talk to us a bit more about this $3 billion package from the U.S.
What exactly does it include?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So, we don't have a perfect knowledge of what's in this package. And the U.S. official who told us
about this package says it's still being finalized. So the final number could shift, it might not be exactly $3 billion, it could be a little
higher or lower, but it is the size of this package that is stunning.
This would be by far the largest single security assistance package announced from the United States. The previous high was just earlier this
month, and that was a $1 billion package. So, this potentially three times the size of that. In terms of what's in it, according to a U.S. official,
we've learnt that there are some western air defense packages here or western air defense systems here, so we'll try to get a better sense of
that over the course of the next 24 hours until this announcement comes.
But primarily, this is a tremendous amount of ammunition according to that U.S. official. Ammunition for what systems exactly is not clear at this
point, but a tremendous amount of ammunition in terms of $3 billion. This does fall under the U.S. -- united -- I'm sorry, the Ukraine Security
Assistance Initiative, the USAI.
So, instead of being drawn directly from U.S. inventories in Europe and elsewhere, this will come from contracts with weapons manufacturers, which
means it will generally take more time. Some of that perhaps weapon manufacturers have at the ready, but much of this will have to be made over
the course of the coming weeks, months, perhaps, even years.
But it is worth noting that there was another draw-down package, which is a draw-down package pulled directly from U.S. stocks announced just last week
in the amount of $775 million. Isa?
SOARES: Oren Liebermann for us at the Pentagon, thanks very much, Oren, good to see you. Russia is remembering the slain daughter of a nationalist
ideologue as a patriot as well as a martyr days after she died in a car bombing. Mourners held a memorial service for Darya Dugina in Moscow. Her
father Alexander Dugin delivered an emotional speech, saying his daughter died for her country. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER DUGIN, PUTIN ALLY WHOSE DAUGHTER WAS KILLED IN CAR BOMBING (through translator): The price that we have to pay can be justified by
only one thing, the highest achievement, victory. She lived in the name of victory and she died in the name of victory. Our Russian victory, our
truth, our orthodoxy, our country and our empire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: While separately, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said there would be no mercy for those responsible. Russian authorities have blamed Ukraine
special services for her death, but Ukrainians have denied any involvement in the car explosion. Let's get more from CNN's Fred Pleitgen who Joins us
now from Moscow. And Fred, you were at that memorial, and so paint us a picture of what you saw and what you heard today.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what was remarkable about that memorial service is, first of all, there
were a lot of people who came and then paid their last respects to Darya Dugina. And the mood there was of course, one of grieving and of sorrow,
but also one of deep anger and certain also, one that seem to show a thirst for revenge as well.
And some denials that we've been hearing from the Ukrainians over the past sort of days since this incident happened here in Moscow, those seemed to
fall on completely deaf ears as far as the folks who were there at that ceremony today. They spoke of a state terrorism on the part of the
Ukrainians, and they spoke about escalating Russia's war in Ukraine as well.
There were people who were talking about all out war, there were people talking about lobbying the governments to go harder and tougher on Ukraine.
And then, of course, you just had Alexander Dugin right there who also spoke of the need for victory as he put it, and that was really something
that other people who spoke there said as well.
So, you could really see that the folks who were there were looking for an escalation, and those are certainly voices that have become more prominent
here in Moscow over the past couple of days since the death of Darya Dugina. So, really, some charged rhetoric going on there, despite the fact
that the Ukrainians say that they were not behind this.
And when we speak about Alexander Dugin, it was obviously very important to show that sound-bite from, he is obviously someone who is extreme in some
of his views. He is someone who, you know, is said to have influence over the thinking or some of the thinking of Vladimir Putin or might have
influenced some of the thinking of Vladimir Putin. This is certainly not someone whose opinions are fringe.
[14:10:00]
I mean, one of the things that we saw today at that event is, there was a condolence letter that was read by Vladimir Putin, there was one that was
read by Sergey Lavrov; Russia's Foreign Minister. So these are certainly people who are within the mainstream of Russian policy, the mainstream of
Russian Kremlin-controlled media.
And so, there does seem to be a certain appetite right now, and anger there that calls for a further escalation in Ukraine, certainly something that
would be very troubling for the folks in Kyiv, especially as we approach --
SOARES: Yes --
PLEITGEN: That important day of Ukraine Independence Day, and of course, also marking the six-month mark of the invasion of Ukraine as well, Isa.
SOARES: How much, Fred, is the attack, like you hinted out there, uniting perhaps Russian public support for the conflict in Ukraine? And of course,
as we head into that six-month mark?
PLEITGEN: You know, honestly, I don't know that it would do very much for a public opinion as a whole. I think that the debates that are going on
right now, I think some of the things that you're hearing on Kremlin- controlled media, a lot of that is taking place in the upper echelons of Kremlin-controlled media, a lot of that is taking place of course, also in
the upper echelons of Russian politics as well.
What has been noted over the past couple of weeks is that there has been a bit of a decrease in support for Russia's military operation in Ukraine,
although, it does still remain very high. Vladimir Putin's approval ratings here, and the way that the Russians perceive him to be doing his job remain
very high as well.
One of the things that we have to point out is that, the whole military operation in Ukraine, the war is something that you don't necessarily feel
very much of here in Moscow. You don't necessarily see those Z symbols that Russia has as its symbol for the invasion of Ukraine. You don't see much in
the way of military. You don't see much in the way of recruitment also here in Moscow as well.
So, to a lot of people, the war is still fairly distant. And that might be one of the reasons why support for the war is still fairly high among the
public here in Russia, whether or not that's going to change is unclear. Whether or not this incident will change anything is also very much
unclear.
But really, what we're seeing right now is people who have a lot of influence in state media, who have a lot of influence in politics, those
are the ones now where the rhetoric is really being amped-up. Isa.
SOARES: Important context there from our Fred Pleitgen in Moscow this hour, thanks, Fred. Well, earlier, I spoke with NATO Secretary-General Jens
Stoltenberg reflecting really on nearly six months of war. As fears grow that Russia will now -- new attacks on civilian infrastructure inside
Ukraine. I started by asking him if he's concerned about further escalation in the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS STOLTENBERG, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: There is a potential for the escalation because we have seen it again and again, that President
Putin and Russia are -- they're willing to use some brutal military force against civilian targets, against cities, against civilian infrastructure.
So, of course, this is a real danger, and that's the reason why the message on the Crimea platform today, where President Zelenskyy and other leaders
participated, was that, we need to step up support for Ukraine, to uphold the right for self-defense.
SOARES: So, this warning coming from the U.S., you support it, you also see this Intelligence.
STOLTENBERG: We have also information telling that there's a risk for escalation, and also renewed attacks on civilian targets. And this is not
only Intelligence, but it's also facts we all have seen over this brutal war, that has lasted for six months. And the best response is for NATO
allies to do even more --
SOARES: Yes --
STOLTENBERG: In helping Ukraine to stop this brutal aggression of Russia against the Ukraine.
SOARES: One area of concern that I've -- you know, from experts I've spoken to on this show, is of course, the Zaporizhzhia and nuclear power
plant, the largest in Europe where we have seen a standoff now for some time. Are you fearful of a nuclear accident at the plant?
STOLTENBERG: It's a very dangerous situation we have, caused again by Russia's war, President Putin's war. Just the fact that they have deployed
forces, artillery close to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, the biggest nuclear power station in Europe, is reckless, is dangerous. And therefore,
Russia must immediately allow a national inspection. They must withdraw their forces and then help to stabilize the situation around the nuclear
power plant.
SOARES: What we have been seeing and we have reported on the show is some of the challenges really that Ukraine's allies are facing, and this is
something that you would have known as well about, Secretary-General, which is the inflation concerns, the cost of living crisis, the surging gas
prices, and of course, some countries have elections knocking on their doors.
I think it's important to point out. Do you think, though, sir, that the allies, your -- the allies here within NATO remain focused and united on
supporting Ukraine for what is expected to be a hard Winter here?
[14:15:00]
STOLTENBERG: Winter is coming and Winter is going to be hard, and NATO allies across Europe and North America are paying a price, of course, by
the sanctions, and of course by of course, the brutal war over -- of Russia against Ukraine, increasing energy prices, inflation. But at the same time,
we know that the price we have to pay if we don't support Ukraine, can be much higher.
Because if Russia wins in Ukraine, the world will be more dangerous, we will be more vulnerable, so we just have to provide and continue to sustain
support to Ukraine. And we also have to remember that the price we are paying is the price that we can measure in money.
The price the Ukrainians are paying is a price measured in lives. Hundreds of lives lost every day. So both for -- what is moral is in solidarity with
Ukraine, but also because it is in our own interest to ensure that Putin doesn't win in Ukraine. We need to provide military aid -- military aid,
economic aid to Ukraine.
SOARES: But the unity is still there, sir?
STOLTENBERG: Yes, absolutely. We had a NATO summit this Summer, and it was a clear message from all NATO allies, and of course, also the message from
President Biden, that NATO allies stand together, and we are ready to provide support to Ukraine as long as it takes. And I would like to commend
the United States for really showing leadership, leading the support group that is convening NATO allies and all the countries, in mobilizing more
support.
We have seen unprecedented support, that's great, but we need even more and we need support delivered even faster to Ukraine.
SOARES: And we are now of course, at the six-month mark of this war, like you said, countless lives have been lost, many lives have been upended, of
course. But how would you compare the losses suffered by Russia and Ukrainian militaries?
STOLTENBERG: There are heavy losses on both sides, thousands. What I can say is that President Putin made a huge strategic mistake, he thought that
he could win this war within days, and now we have six months of heavy fighting. And we have seen that the Ukrainian armed forces, they have
courage, they have a determination to really fight back.
So therefore, the Ukrainian forces army, has been able to retake territory around Kyiv, around Kharkiv, in the east, and also to stop, to halt the
Russian offensive in Donbas and actually strike back. So, this is now turning into a war of attrition, and that is a war of logistics, and we
need supplies, ammunition, fuel, and of course, also Wheeler(ph), because this has a heavy price for both sides.
SOARES: A war of logistics, a war of will, but do you see this conflict moving into 2023?
STOLTENBERG: There is risk. We -- the United States, NATO allies, we were very precise in predicting the invasion, we warned actually against it in
last Fall, and they invaded almost exactly when we predicted. But wars are by nature unpredictable.
But we need to be prepared for long haul and also that the war may last into the Winter, therefore also, NATO allies are now stepping up and are
constantly providing Winter clothing, Winter equipment and again, more fuel, more ammunition to sustain the military efforts of the brave
Ukrainian people and armed forces and political leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: NATO Secretary-General there speaking to me earlier. And still to come tonight, a CNN exclusive, Twitter's former head of security turns
whistleblower, claiming lacks security and the company poses a threat to users. The full story after this short break. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Now, to an explosive whistleblower report. Twitter's former head of security says security vulnerabilities at the company are a danger to
democracy. That disclosure was obtained by CNN and "The Washington Post". In an exclusive interview Peiter Zatko spoke to Donie O'Sullivan about the
allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Ready?
PEITER ZATKO, FORMER HEAD OF SECURITY, TWITTER: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: Why are you coming forward?
ZATKO: All my life, I've been about finding places where I can go and make a difference.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): This is Peiter Zatko, until January of this year, he was head of security at Twitter, but now he is a whistleblower, and he
says Twitter's security problems are so grave, they are a risk to national security and democracy.
ZATKO: I think Twitter is a critical resource to the entire world, I think it's an extremely important platform.
O'SULLIVAN: He's handed over information about the company to U.S. law enforcement agencies, including the SEC, FTC, and the Department of
Justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I ask your name?
ZATKO: I'm Mudge.
O'SULLIVAN: Zatko is better known in the hacking world by his nickname, Mudge. He's been a renowned cyber security expert for decades.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His roots are in hacking. Figuring out how computers and software work.
O'SULLIVAN: That expertise might be why Jack Dorsey, then CEO of Twitter hired Zatko after the company was hit by a massive attack in 2020 when
hackers took over the account of some of the world's most famous people.
JOHN TYE, FOUNDER, WHISTLEBLOWER AID: Mudge is one of the top five or six executives at the company.
O'SULLIVAN: Zatko is represented by John Tye who founded Whistleblower Aid. The same group that represented Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen.
TYE: We are in touch with the law enforcement agencies, they're taking this seriously.
O'SULLIVAN: Twitter is pushing back, saying Zatko as peddling a narrative about our privacy and data security practices that is riddled with
inconsistencies and inaccuracies and lacks important context. When we spoke to Zatko and his lawyer, they said that the lawful whistleblower disclosure
process only allows them to talk about these issues in general terms. For specific allegations about Twitter, they referred us to Zatko's disclosure.
TYE: I'm not going to go into details, but I will say that Mudge stands by the disclosure and the allegations in there.
O'SULLIVAN: CNN and "The Washington Post" obtained a copy of the disclosure from a senior Democratic official on Capitol Hill. In it, Zatko
claims nearly half of Twitter's employees have access to some of the platform's main critical controls.
ZATKO: There is an analogy of an airplane. So you get on an airplane and every passenger and the attendant crew all have access to the cockpit, to
the controls, you know, that's entirely unnecessary. It might be easy. But there, it's too easy to accidentally or intentionally turn an engine off.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN: Twitter accounts belonging to a whole lot of famous people --
O'SULLIVAN: That kind of access contributed to the massive attack in the Summer 2020 when hackers, two of them, teenagers, tricked a couple of
Twitter employees into letting them into Twitter's systems. That gave them access to accounts including that of then presidential candidate Joe Biden.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN: I don't have to tell you the significance of being able to breach the Twitter accounts with many millions of followers including a
leading politician three months from a presidential election.
[14:25:00]
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): In the disclosure, you quote from a wired magazine article that says, "but if a teenager with access to an administration
panel can bring the company to its knees, just imagine what Vladimir Putin can do."
TYE: Foreign Intelligence agencies have the resources to identify vulnerabilities that could have systemic effects across entire platform,
across the whole internet.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Twitter told CNN that since the 2020 hack, it had improved these access systems and had trained staff to protect themselves
against hacking.
(on camera): If you're running any system, the more people that have access to the main switches, that's a very risky situation.
ZATKO: Yes, absolutely. I'm talking in generalities. Just large tech companies need to know what the risks are, and then they also need to have
an appetite to go fix it.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Zatko also claims Twitter has been misleading about how many fake accounts and bots are on its platform. That's an issue
that Elon Musk has made central to his attempt to get out of a deal to buy the company.
ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA & SPACEX: I guess right now, I'm sort of debating the number of bots on Twitter.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): There will be suspicions of the timing of this. Are you guys carrying water for Elon Musk?
TYE: Absolutely not. We've been following the news just like everyone else. But that has nothing to do with his decisions or with the content of
what was sent in to U.S. law enforcement agencies.
O'SULLIVAN: Mudge hasn't been talking to Musk in the background or anything like that?
TYE: Not at all.
O'SULLIVAN: Zatko says he was fired by Twitter in January of this year after he tried to raise the alarm internally. He points the finger at
Twitter CEO Parag Agrawal, saying he has worked to hide Twitter's security vulnerabilities from the board.
(on camera): I suspect that Twitter might try to paint it like this that Mudge got fired and he's trying to retaliate against the company.
TYE: Absolutely not. This is not any kind of personal issue for him. He was eventually fired in January of this year, but he hasn't given up on
trying to do that job.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): In response to the allegations, Twitter told CNN, security and privacy had long been a priority at Twitter. As for Zatko,
they said he, quote, "was fired from his senior executive role at Twitter more than six months ago for poor performance and leadership. He now
appears to be opportunistically seeking to inflict harm on Twitter, its customers, and its shareholders."
ZATKO: Your whole perception of the world is made from what you're seeing, reading and consuming online. And if you don't have an understanding of
what's real, what's not, yes, I think this is pretty scary.
O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Are you nervous?
ZATKO: Yes, this wasn't my first choice. But yes, I just want to make the world a better place, a safer place, for levers I have to do it are through
security, information and privacy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Fascinating interview there with Donie. Well, and billionaire Tesla CEO Elon Musk is already getting involved. His legal team says it has
already subpoenaed Zatko. Musk is trying to get out of his $44 billion purchase of Twitter as you heard Donie. He's claiming that the company
downplays the true number of bots on the site.
Subpoena could throw up more damning revelations about Twitter's security or really shine some light on Musk's own allegations. And still to come on
the show tonight, I'll speak with the Turkish president's spokesperson about his country's unique role in the war, and some surprising comments
we've just heard from the boss, President Erdogan. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone.
We are expecting Washington to reveal a massive military aid package for Ukraine on Wednesday. A U.S. official says it could reach $3 billion, which
would be the largest ever. Ukraine's president says he's grateful for foreign aid while urging the West not to give into war fatigue. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We need to be clearly aware that, as soon as the world becomes tired of this war,
that's going to be a great threat to the whole world and the threat of annihilating Ukraine. So we are grateful for any kind of assistance we
need, more of it, that is true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: CNN international correspondent David McKenzie was at the press conference he joins me now.
David, as we approach the six month mark of this war, as fatigue sets in, how important is this new aid package from the U.S.
What difference will this make?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, $3 billion is not a small number. Certainly, it could have a very significant impact on the ongoing fight in
Ukraine against the Russian invasion.
The comment from Volodymyr Zelenskyy came from my question to him, which was are foreign countries doing enough?
Or are they doing just enough to stop Russia from making advances?
He was very diplomatic in his answer. Of course, Ukraine is dependent on foreign powers, including the U.S. and European powers for ammunition,
long-range weapons and just cash to keep this going.
This all comes as this anniversary happens here tomorrow, which normally should be large crowds gathering to celebrate Ukraine's independence from
the Soviet Union. It would be different at any time because of the conflict.
But there is the sense, this heightened alert about possible missile strikes in the city where I am standing, something that Zelenskyy called,
based on generalized intelligence from partner countries.
SOARES: Despite these tensions and this uneasiness that is being felt, President Zelenskyy has, I believe, promised to retake Crimea. It has been
under control since 2014.
How realistic is this?
MCKENZIE: They have been saying this for some time, more repeatedly after those strikes within Crimea, those blasts, which were significantly
damaging Russian assets in both the western part of that peninsula and the northern part of the peninsula.
Of course, this is a zone that was taken over by the Russians in 2014. This is, in many ways, the first salvo in what ended up being this wider
conflict.
This is something that Zelenskyy and the defense and civilian leadership of this country have repeated, that, ultimately, it is not about regaining the
territory for Ukraine that was taken by Russia in the past six months but regaining all of the territory of Ukraine that was lost since 2014.
SOARES: David McKenzie for us in Kyiv this hour, thanks.
The war in Ukraine has given Turkiye the golden opportunity to serve as facilitator between Kyiv and Moscow while improving its relationship with
Washington.
[14:35:00]
Turkiye recently helped broker a deal, if you remember, that allowed Ukrainian grain shipments to pick up again through the Black Sea.
It is also involved in talks over the Zaporizhzhya nuclear plant in Ukraine, where intense fighting is raging nearby. Just a short while ago,
Turkiye's president said the return of Crimea to Ukraine is a requirement under international law.
At the same time, the West is concerned. Turkiye, if you remember, did not sanction Russia over Ukraine, even though it is part of NATO. Business
between the two is booming. Turkiye's presidential spokesperson Ibrahim Kalin joins me live now.
Mr. Kalin, thank you for taking the time to speak to us on the show. I want to start off by getting your thoughts on what we have been hearing in the
last 24 hours from the U.S. and from Ukraine, that Russia may be stepping up its efforts to launch strikes in civilian infrastructure.
How worried is Turkiye about a further escalation through this brutal war?
IBRAHIM KALIN, TURKIYE'S PRESIDENTIAL SPOKESPERSON: If you remember, much concerned about any escalation in any part of the conflict. We have been
talking to the Russian officials. The president has been speaking to President Putin and personnel as well as over the phone.
And also he's been a very close contact with President Zelenskyy to bring an end to the current hostilities in the first place but also find a way
perhaps that will lead to serious negotiations that would bring in a cease- fire, if not an immediately comprehensive peace talk framework.
But we have been working on it. Of course, we remain extremely concerned about any escalation of violence, whether it's in Kherson, Crimea or in
Zaporizhzhya or in other parts of Ukraine under Russian occupation.
SOARES: Of course, over the last few months, we have seen Turkiye play a critical role of mediator; in particular, to what relates, of course, to
the grain deal.
Does Turkiye believe it can translate this position of mediator, facilitator let's call it, to a breakthrough at that Zaporizhzhya nuclear
power plant?
That is a huge concern.
KALIN: It is. Our president raised the issue in the press conference with President Zelenskyy. We convey the same message to the Russians at our
level and through different channels, that Zaporizhzhya still remains very critical. We do not want to end up with another Chernobyl accident.
But we were happy to hear from the Russian side and the Ukrainian side that the IAEA, one team will be visiting the site very soon within the next week
or 10 days, I believe, to have a report about the current situation.
But what we heard from President Zelenskyy was very concerning. The nuclear plant has been surrounded by Russian forces. But the Ukrainian officials
and technical teams as well as other regular security teams are inside the nuclear plant. And the surrounding areas of the plants have been mined by
the Ukrainians.
I mean, it is a very critical situation. It may turn into a ticking bomb -- and God forbid if anything happens, any accident we did not expect it to
happen immediately. But we may be in for a major catastrophe.
So we are trying to prevent this and talking to the Russians to pull back their forces from the surrounding areas and let the IAEA go in and then
create some kind of a non-military no-conflict zone in and around Zaporizhzhya.
In regards to the first part of your question, can we turn the grain deal into something that will build trust between the Russians and the
Ukrainians, to bring them back to the negotiating table?
We believe that is possible. We had that opportunity in Istanbul back in March, when the Russian and the Ukrainian negotiating teams came together.
And they had agreed on a number of principles, if not on all the details.
Unfortunately, what happened in Bucha and a few other things, attacks, et cetera, prevented any further progress. But we still believe that the trust
that we were able to build through the U.N., within the Russian and Ukrainian side for the grain deal, can work as a platform and context and
way forward to restart, reinitiate negotiations.
But that requires not only the willingness of the Russians or the Ukrainians but also the support of the international community in that
direction. That would require the cessation of all attacks and hostilities by the Russian forces into Ukrainian cities.
And there needs to be a clear understanding and willingness on both sides for that. But we are working hard on this. I cannot disclose all the
details at the moment. But we are working very hard through different channels to bring the two sides closer on this particular issue.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: Let me just press you on this.
On Zaporizhzhya, have you heard from the Russian side, have you heard from the Ukrainian side that both are on the same page, singing from the same
hymn sheet, that the IAEA team will be able to go into the nuclear power plant?
You are saying perhaps in a period of a week?
That is what you're saying?
Is that what you're saying?
KALIN: Yes, that is what we have been told. And we are hoping that the team will go there and is reporting a free and safe environment. Hopefully,
that will provide some kind of a break or a cessation, some kind of a pause in the very tense situation in around the nuclear plantation.
Of course, nobody wants to have any kind of nuclear disaster there. I don't think the Russians will want anything like that. But of course, they have
surrounded the nuclear plant. And it remains very critical and very dangerous.
So we are doing our best. And we are calling on the international community also to support this initiative to securing around the Zaporizhzhya nuclear
plant. But there is a lot of work to do there.
SOARES: Mr. Kalin, today we heard President Zelenskyy vowing to take back Crimea by any means necessary. I believe President Erdogan has today called
for Crimea to be returned to Ukraine.
Is this a message that president has made clear to President Putin?
KALIN: Yes, in fact our position since 2014, when Russia annexed Crimea, has been the same. We never recognized it. It was not legal or lawful. And
Crimea is legally and historically part of Ukraine.
But the Russians have a different claim. Right now, of course, legally, Crimea is part of Ukraine. And we support Ukraine's territorial integrity
and sovereignty. Any solution to this conflict, this war, will have to be reached on the basis of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.
But the de facto situation, the current actual situation, is the fact that Crimea is under Russian control. Of course, the Ukrainian side is entitled
to seek different ways to regain and retake Crimea.
But given the realities of the war, it looks like a tough call at this point. I think any solution that will be isolated from the larger picture
in regards to Crimea really will not be a practical one.
What I mean, is that just concentrating, say, on Crimea, without addressing the larger war situation, I don't think that will work. What we will need
is to stop the current course of events, which is Russia advancing even more into Ukrainian territories and more hostilities and attacks everywhere
happening, small and big, here and there.
We just have to find a way to stop this first and then start talking about how the Russian forces will withdraw from Ukrainian territories and then we
talk about Crimea. That seems to me at least to be a more practical and feasible and doable way of doing it.
SOARES: Ibrahim Kalin, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much.
KALIN: My pleasure.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, chaos at the airports as one of the major travel hubs in the U.S. is shut down by flooding. We have the details
next.
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[14:45:00]
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SOARES: Serious flooding is also affecting the world's richest nations. More than 30 centimeters of rain fell in Dallas, Texas, in a 24-hour period
Sunday as well as Monday and that has caused almost a complete shutdown of the busy Dallas-Fort Worth Airport.
Extreme weather and other factors there, to nearly 1,500 flights being canceled in the U.S. on Monday. And we need some perspective on all travel
troubles, we bring in Richard Quest.
Let me start in the U.S.
How many of these delays and cancellations are more than just weather trouble?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: I think you have two distinct issues. The first is the weather but that happens every year. And some years are worse, some
years are better. This year seems to be a little bit worse in some places.
But then you have the delays and cancellations because they are understaffed. Either they have left the industry or they have got COVID or
they have just not called in for work.
And that, of course, is the same situation as has been felt in Europe and elsewhere. And the collective of those two, at the very moment that the
travel industry and the travel infrastructure is at its most used, it's at full strength, 110 percent, that's why we are seeing the delays, which will
continue.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: And that is the important thing.
SOARES: That was going to be my question, because we have seen it here in Europe and I know you have been reporting on. It BA, I think, today, also
saying they're cutting trips because of a lack of resources. So this will be dragging into the autumn.
Do you think this may drag into next year?
What are you hearing?
QUEST: Yes, absolutely, it could drag into next year for the simple reason, too many people left the industry and these are not jobs that you
can quickly get people back into again.
So it's going to take time to rebuild that infrastructure. BA has already announced it's cutting 10,000 flights between October and March. And it's a
relatively small number when you think about 300 flights a day.
So when you actually amortize it across the whole period, it's not huge. But it's an indication. What airlines need to do is offer certainty.
Airlines need to be able to say to passengers, you are flying on this day at this time. We fully expect the plane to go.
If you can't do that, then your only option is to cancel the flights.
SOARES: But having said that, people are still buying tickets. They still want to go on holiday. Right?
QUEST: That's the conundrum because that is, everybody wanted to go to the show at the same time. As a result, the irony is that there are the seats.
The planes have the capacity.
But the airport, the infrastructure does not have the ability. It's like trying to push too much through the funnel at once. It will get better. But
I think we have a lot more pain to go, particularly as we come out of the summer with a couple of big bank holidays in Europe and the United States.
You might be well worth thinking about staying at home.
SOARES: I will. I will. Richard Quest, appreciate, it thanks very much.
QUEST: Thank you.
SOARES: Still to come tonight, anger over rising crime as well as inflation. Thousands of protesters take to the streets in Haiti, calling
for the prime minister to resign. We will bring you that story next.
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[14:50:00]
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SOARES: The toll from flooding in Pakistan is truly staggering. Authorities say more than 800 people are dead and well over 300,000 homes
have been damaged or destroyed. Hundreds of kilometers of road have washed out; over 100 bridges have been damaged, many have collapsed.
One government minister says climate change has made extreme weather events like this more common and is devastating to developing countries.
At least two people have been shot and killed and several others injured during nationwide protests in Haiti. Police fired tear gas and live rounds
into the air, as thousands took to the streets in major cities, angry over rising gun violence as well as inflation. Patrick Oppmann joins me now for
more.
The situation on the ground in Haiti just continues to escalate.
What are the solutions here?
Will the prime minister resign or will that send the country further into chaos?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a great question, because is that really the solution when we already have such a weakened government in
Haiti in this country?
Unfortunately, it's reeling from crisis to crisis, still recovering from a devastating earthquake, still reeling from an unsolved presidential
assassination, which has implicated the current acting prime minister, although Ariel Henry has denied any involvement in the death of his
predecessor.
Still lots of questions there. And, of course, as so many countries around the world are dealing with rising food and fuel costs, for a country like
Haiti, where so many were barely surviving before the pandemic, now, people are doing so much worse off.
People who, even before would only be able to get their children perhaps one meal a day. So that is what has really brought this to a head, in
addition to terrible gang violence that has crippled the country, showing how weak this government is.
Even though prime minister Ariel Henry, while saying he will not step down, is promising to crack down on the gang violence. In so many parts of this
country, is the gangs, not the government, not the police, who are in control.
So it really seems that the government here is just as powerless as the Haitian people under the gangs. They are calling the shots and it's unclear
what this government or any other government in Haiti can do, to turn that situation around.
SOARES: The gangs are calling the shots and the people, as we have heard on the show countless times, they are just terrified.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: Terrified to leave their house. And like you said, they are struggling to feed their children and pay for the basics, pay for food.
What are you hearing from NGOs on the ground?
OPPMANN: I have friends who work in Haiti and they say that they cannot live where they live. None of the NGOs have pulled out. People tell me they
would have to travel by helicopter, not very conducive to work.
Others tell me that they are simply locked in their homes, too afraid or simply not allowed to leave because it has gotten that dangerous, because
no part of Port-au-Prince, few parts of Haiti are safe to travel to. And these are the people charged with helping Haiti but are tragically unable
to right now.
SOARES: Meanwhile, silence from the international community on this. Patrick, we really appreciate it.
And you can catch up with interviews as well as analysis from the show online. You can go to my Instagram and my Twitter. The details are right
there on your screen.
Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here with CNN for "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Richard Quest.
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