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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Lawmakers Grill TikTok CEO Over Privacy Concerns; A Ukraine Commander Cites Ukraine Could Be Ready To Go On The Offensive In Bakhmut Soon; Violent Clashes Erupt On Ninth Day Of Strikes In France; TikTok CEO Testifies On Capitol Hill; Netanyahu Vows To Proceed With Judicial Overhaul; Biden To Make Presidential Trip To Canada. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired March 23, 2023 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, U.S. lawmakers grill TikTok CEO of the
privacy concerns, many arguing the app should be banned, we'll have more on the intense questioning we have seen on Capitol Hill. Then Ukraine could be
ready to stage a counteroffensive in Bakhmut, according to top military officials, we'll have more on that at this hour.
Plus, a day of anger on the streets of France as President Macron doubles down on his decision to raise the retirement age. We are live amongst the
protesters in Paris. First, this hour, though, we begin on Capitol Hill in Washington with a showdown between U.S. lawmakers and the head of social
media platform TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew is being grilled by members of the U.S. house congressional committee.
It comes as a Chinese-owned social media app faces growing scrutiny as well as cause for it to be banned. Lawmakers are worried user data could fall
into the hands of Beijing's communist government. They are also concerned though about consumer privacy and dangers it may pose for young people.
Shou insists the app poses no threat though to national security. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHOU ZI CHEW, CEO, TIKTOK: There are more than 150 million Americans who love our platform, and we know we have a responsibility to protect them. We
will firewall protect a U.S. data from unwanted foreign access.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, lawmakers seem unconvinced, though, by Shou's assurances, with many interrupting him or outright saying, they don't believe him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R-WA): Your platform should be banned. I expect today you'll say anything to avoid this outcome.
REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D-CO): You gave me only generalized statements that you're investing, that you're concerned that you're doing more. That's not
enough for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, we've got team coverage of this story. CNN's Marc Stewart is standing by in Tokyo. But first, we want to go to Vanessa Yurkevich in New
York. And Vanessa, to you first, I mean, it was quite a grilling, sometimes quite uncomfortable to watch, I have to say, but did he -- was he able to
convince lawmakers here? Vanessa, that the platform is not an agent of China, doesn't provide data to China.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, eyes of the lawmakers he did not. He was grilled for four and a half hours,
those tough questions that you heard there mainly about whether or not China and the Chinese government has influence over TikTok, and whether or
not they have access to TikTok's data.
More specifically, the 150 million users here in the United States. Shou at the top, unequivocally said that TikTok was not an agent of China. He went
on to make some commitments to the committee, saying that he was there to confirm that they were going to try to protect teenagers on the app that
they were going to put all U.S. privacy data behind a firewall.
They were going to make sure that all of that privacy data was on a U.S. server in the U.S., run by Oracle, but that all really fell on deaf ears.
The committee was simply not believing what he was saying. And what this does really is embolden Congress, embolden the White House on their mission
to either pass legislation to severely restrict TikTok here in the U.S. or force a sale of TikTok from ByteDance to another company that may want to
buy TikTok here in the U.S.
And we heard from many committee members. They just reinforce that they want to see an outright ban of TikTok here in the U.S. However, it's going
to be a little bit tricky, restrictions, yes, maybe we can see some limitations that Congress may place on TikTok and other social media apps,
however, an outright ban or sale, that's tricky.
We saw the Trump administration in 2020 tried to ban TikTok. They were unsuccessful. They had many legal challenges. Judges ultimately ruling that
they could not ban TikTok here in the U.S. So as much as lawmakers potentially want to see that happen, that will be an uphill battle for
Congress.
SOARES: Vanessa do stay with us. Let me go to Marc. And Marc, of course, the grilling still ongoing, five-plus hours, you can see there on Capitol
Hill. And this is important to point out, it's bipartisan grilling.
[15:05:00]
But we know, like we've heard there from Vanessa, where the Biden administration stands on this. They want them to sell the app to an
American company or face a possible ban. What has been the reaction then Marc, from Beijing to that ultimatum, would the Chinese government allow
ByteDance to sell the app?
MARC STEWART, CNN REPORTER: I mean, it is quite possible Isa, that the Chinese government could say, hey, no, you cannot sell. You cannot sell
this app, these rights to a U.S.-based company. We know that private companies have seen the value of analytics and algorithms, because they
give insight into human behavior, where we're interested in what may be -- we may be shopping for.
Well, that's not something that the Chinese government wants to necessarily give up, even though it says that it's not necessarily doing that in the
case of TikTok. But broadly-speaking, it's something that governments want to have control line. As far as the official line, though, from Beijing, we
heard some response from the central government just a few days ago.
They feel that the U.S. government has kind of overreached principles of national security, and that it's getting in the way of free markets, of
free choice, and that it's really getting in the way of the economic process.
You know, depending on how things unfold, Isa, it's -- and the U.S. decides to follow suit with other countries and actually ban TikTok, we could
perhaps see retaliation or at least, that's the suggestion of an economist I heard from, you know, yesterday, you know, here in Tokyo, who said that,
perhaps we could see -- we could see the Chinese government say to U.S. tech companies, your apps are banned on Chinese --
SOARES: Wow --
STEWART: Soil. So the grilling continues and the different possibilities of how this could unfold and will continue as well.
SOARES: And that point that you're bringing up of possible retaliation here, Marc, it does speak to this really growing divide between the U.S.
and China, with the app clearly trapped kind of in a geopolitical tug of war over its future here.
STEWART: Well, we look at all of these conflicts between the United States and China, there is certainly a difference of opinion about the war in
Ukraine. There are economic differences. There are big concerns about public health. But these issues of technology and intellectual property are
just as divisive.
They're not -- they don't necessarily always get the attention. But today, it is, especially with an app such as TikTok, which is so popular in the
United States, 150 million users. It's interesting to see how the CEO has said to Congress, this is not something that's a novelty to Americans. It's
a necessity in their lives. So that adds to the tension in this narrative.
SOARES: And so, Vanessa, my final question really to you, what happens next? After this hearing in Congress? What are the next steps here?
YURKEVICH: Well, certainly, if there were any lawmakers who were maybe on the fence about how they felt about TikTok, one could look at this hearing
and say, well, a lot of the questions that I had certainly were not answered today. The committee was really looking for yes or no answers, and
so far, they haven't gotten yes or no answers.
Then there's been a lot of let me get back to you on this, and they were not happy essentially with that type of response. But again, this goes back
to the power of Congress and the legislators. Can they pass some sort of sweeping bill that could regulate TikTok and other companies? And
ultimately, the White House has to decide as Mark was saying, how far do they want to get into this with China?
Do they want to force a sale right now? And do they want to sort of tamper relations with China? It's going to be a lot of discussions, because right
now, there is some power in what's come out of this hearing. There is a little bit of firepower that Congress and the White House now has to say
that, hey, we gave the CEO an opportunity to ask tough questions -- to answer tough questions, and to tell us 100 percent that China has no
involvement in TikTok.
He could not say 100 percent that China has no involvement. He did go on to say that they are not an agent of China, but couldn't give them that 100
percent that Congress was looking for.
SOARES: And that's exactly like you said, it's exactly what they were looking for. Thank you very much, Vanessa and Marc, appreciate it. Well,
later in the show, I will be speaking with Shalini Kantayya; she is the director of the documentary "TikTok, Boom". We'll take a closer look at how
the platform is impacting teens' mental health here, which we haven't heard a lot of throughout the day today and throughout this hearing.
Now, demonstrations are happening across France right now over President Emmanuel Macron's decision to raise the retirement age by two years. The
majority of protesters were peaceful on this ninth day of nationwide strikes. But in Paris, a group destroyed shop windows as well as a
restaurant. Riot police moved in with tear gas and stun grenades.
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Some gas stations are now running out of fuel workers, certain French refineries are on strike, and we're also seeing disruption at LNG terminals
as well as nuclear energy sites. Let's get more on all of this. Sam Kiley is standing by for us in Paris. So Sam, give -- paint us a picture of what
you are seeing, because what we have seen as the sun sets, it begins to get slightly more violent.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed. And that is the case here. You can see now there's a police charge actually going in
against the ramp, I have to say, of the demonstrators, who have been chucking rocks, burning some -- a lot of the garbage that has been left
behind on the streets of Paris as a consequence of the widespread strikes that have been afflicting this country sits the middle of January.
Now, last Thursday, there was this movement by the government to ram through legislation. That would mean that the pensionable age would rise
from 62 to 64. It is the ramming through the exercising of that presidential fiat, if you like, that has angered people in addition to
these economic reforms that Emmanuel Macron is now absolutely adamant, he is going to drive through, even though, we've now on the sixth day -- of
the fifth or sixth day of these demonstrations.
This was an organized day, though, Isa, of demonstrations across the country with a million and 89,000, according to the Interior Ministry,
participating in street demonstrations, and about 120,000 here on the streets of Paris. But the very heavy police presence has meant that groups
are being split up, driven out of the main streets, down side streets, playing these kind of cat and mouse games with the police -- cat and mouse
games with the police, that sometimes result in a correspondent nearly getting run over. Isa.
SOARES: Well done, you -- I was trying to warn you, but I mean, you've got good sense for these things. Thank goodness. But look, the reality is, and
you and I have been covering this all this week, Sam, is that, you know, the bill is going to go through. I know this is low level violence, clearly
keeping police on their toes, and very busy.
But what does -- I mean? What is the strategy from the unions here, Sam? Because if this continues, I don't think it will have the protest --
perhaps lose their impact as well as sympathy here.
KILEY: Yes, I think, I mean, the real problem for the unions is that the only way that this legislation is going to be stopped ultimately, is to
force a U-turn on President Macron. But in terms of legislation, in terms of the legal processes to do that, it's just not there. So they need to
maintain the pressure on the street.
But they also at the same time are very anxious about the growing levels of violence that they're seeing. They have been very vocal in trying to
call on their supporters to dial down the level of violence. But the problem is that at the end of these formal demonstrations such as this,
there's always going to be a ramp element who quite like to mix it with the police.
It's almost become a sport, and the danger is that that could escalate further and further. But Macron has been absolutely clear. That he is not
going to back down, that he considers it an unwelcome economic necessity to make these reforms. In interviews with journalists, a French journalist, TV
journalists over the last few days, he's been insistent that this is not a reform that he wanted to impose, it is one that he feels he is obliged to
impose because the country simply cannot afford the pension scheme as it stands at the moment, Isa.
SOARES: Yes, and probably be banking also on the fact that this is just not sustainable like you said, and you know, that there will be a lot of
momentum in the coming days. We shall see. Sam, stay safe. Thank you very much. Well, after months of grinding battle in Bakhmut with the odds
stacked against them, Ukraine says it will very soon be able to go on the offensive, as well as counterattack.
That is according to some of Ukraine's top military officials. They say Russian troops there are being depleted, and are losing hundreds of
fighters a day. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy made a trip to the Kherson region months after parts -- we remember, were freed
from occupation. David McKenzie joins me now from Odessa.
So David, I mean, for several weeks, you know, it was looking like Russian forces were closing in on Bakhmut, now, very different picture. It seems
the Russians are losing steam. Just give us a sense of what is happening on that frontline.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, I think it's -- can be tempting to draw big conclusions based on individual
commanders and their assessments. What we do know clearly is that, Russia has tried for many months now, Isa, you would know, to try and take Bakhmut
in the east. And there have been ongoing air raid sirens here in Odessa, which describes again in very vivid detail the danger faced by Ukrainian
civilians across this country.
[15:15:00]
But back to Bakhmut, certainly yes, the Russians have tried to take that city for many months, and they've been inching forward in recent weeks.
This assessment from one commander says that they have been depleted, that there could be a Ukrainian counteroffensive soon in that area. We'll have
to wait and see. You did describe President Zelenskyy in this region to the south of where I'm standing, visiting frontline positions, rallying the
troops.
He was also in the east of the country near Bakhmut, and in the north in Kharkiv. You get a sense of a deep breath in this country, waiting to see
if this counteroffensive happens. It's unclear whether the weapons systems from the West have come quickly enough, and the training of troops has
happened substantially enough.
But that's certainly the period we're in now, waiting and watching as continued strikes, unfortunately, hit civilians across this country, Isa.
SOARES: And on President Zelenskyy's visit, I mean, yesterday, you and I were talking about Zelenskyy visiting, I think it was Kharkiv, today,
Kherson. Talk us through the importance of these trips right now from Zelenskyy.
MCKENZIE: Well, I think it shows two things, one, that he is trying to keep up spirits and rally the troops In a very literal sense. He's handing
out medals and visiting injured soldiers. But I think it also is to show a very different picture of a leader compared to say, Vladimir Putin, who was
having meetings in the Kremlin and the relative safety of the Kremlin. Of course --
SOARES: Yes --
MCKENZIE: With Xi Jinping in the last few days. And meanwhile, you had Zelenskyy right there, what appears to be very close to the frontline,
meeting his troops as a frontline commander. The president still very popular in this country, and I think there will be tough times ahead if a
counter offensive begins, and they throw in troops that have been training in both Europe and here in Ukraine. I think this is the importance of these
visits at this time, Isa?
SOARES: David McKenzie for us in Odessa. Thanks very much. David. Well, Ukrainian officials say nine bodies have been recovered from a dormitory
building in the Kyiv region. They were killed by Russian drone attacks overnight on Wednesday. That same day, Russia also fired missiles at the
city of Zaporizhzhia directly, and an apartment building where families were living really, their lives as best as they could really in a war zone.
Ivan Watson tells us how those people are responding.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The cleanup work is now underway a day after Ukrainian authorities say Russian missiles slammed
into the side of these nine-story apartment buildings in the Ukrainian city of Zaporizhzhia. At least, one person was killed in the attack and some 34
people wounded.
I met some of the families who live here who survived the explosion, and insisted on staying here again last night, boarding up their shattered
windows with wood and staying here despite the fact that there is no electricity, nor any heat right now. I'd like to point out right here,
we've got a children's playground right in front of these buildings.
This is the kind of community that was targeted by these deadly strikes. Now the Ukrainian authorities are offering assistance. They've offered
temporary accommodation to residents. There is a distribution going on here for people in the neighborhood. This isn't the first time that an apartment
building has been pounded by deadly rockets and missiles here just in Zaporizhzhia alone.
The city is about a half hour's drive from active frontlines. These buildings face to the southwest, and that is in the direction of Russian-
occupied territory. So you can logically conclude that the deadly long- range projectiles were fired from there, and then slammed into here.
Just last week, I was in another Ukrainian town, Kramatorsk, seeing a similar scene in a lower kind of three-story building, suggesting there is
a deliberate military strategy where certainly, a pattern where Russia fires these types of deadly weapons at residential buildings. Ivan Watson,
CNN, Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, still to come tonight, Israel's Prime Minister has just addressed the nation about the judicial overhaul bill that have triggered,
of course, mass protest nationwide. What he said, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:00]
SOARES: Yes, Donald Trump's legal troubles are deepening, and not just in New York, where a grand jury, of course, is expected to resume its
investigation into a hush money scheme next week. A federal grand jury in Washington is expecting to hear from an important witness tomorrow.
Trump attorney, Evan Corcoran, an appeals court has ruled he must provide additional testimony and turn over documents about the mishandling of
classified records at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate. The court rejected Trump's claim of attorney-client privilege after prosecutors argued, there is
evidence suggesting Trump used Corcoran's services in furtherance of a crime.
A Trump spokesperson says, quote, "they have no case whatsoever". We'll stay on top of that story, of course, as it happens tomorrow. Now, the
global inflation fight rages on today in London. The Bank of England matched its U.S. counterpart, raising interest rates one quarter of 1
percent, 25-basis points. And here's a live look really at what's happening right now on Wall Street after those markets move down almost four-tenths
of a percent.
The Dow Jones down 110 points or so, and this is how European markets finished the day, of course, they have been closed, a very mixed picture,
FTSE closing down 1 percent at the Paris alcohol faring slightly better, but just. Anna Stewart has more from London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER (on camera): Well, given the ECB raised rates by half a percent last week and the Federal Reserve by a quarter of a
percent yesterday, this decision from the Bank of England came as little surprise. The labor market is tight in the U.K., and inflation actually
increased in February from the month before, coming in at 10.4 percent far higher than the central bank's 2 percent target.
It is the 11th increase, a painful cost for many in the U.K. who hold business loans, credit card debt or mortgages, and it could get worse
before it gets better. According to the Bank of England's minutes, investors are expecting rates to hit 4.5 percent by August. So, a quarter
of a percent higher yet. There was some glimmer of good news, though.
U.K. GDP is expected to be higher next quarter than previously forecast, and inflation is still expected to fall significantly, which means
hopefully, the Bank of England is approaching the end of its rate hike path. Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Hopefully is the key word there. And still to come tonight, TikTok and teens mental health. I'll talk with the director of the award-winning
documentary, "TikTok, Boom", Shalini Kantayya. And then later, mass outrage in Israel as protesters demand a hold to judicial overhaul legislation.
[15:25:00]
We'll tell you what Prime Minister Netanyahu said about the controversy just minutes ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Joe Biden is making his first trip to Canada as U.S. President today, where the security crisis in Haiti will
loom large on his agenda. The island is gripped with fear as armed gangs have taken control. United Nations has called for the international
community to get involved in the crisis, and it really is a crisis.
Just look at these statistics. Since the beginning of the year, clashes among gangs left at least 531 people dead, 300 injured and 277 kidnapped.
The White House says Mr. Biden plans to discuss taking action with President Justin Trudeau, and their concerns really about military
intervention. Jean-Marc Biquet from Medecins Sans Frontieres joins me now by phone from Porto-au-Prince, Haiti, to discuss this crisis further.
So, Jean-Marc, I want to leave politics aside if I can, and for a moment, just tell our viewers what the situation is like in Port-au-Prince. Jean-
Marc, can you hear me? I don't think we have -- we don't have Jean-Marc, we'll of course, try to connect with him, and as soon as we have him, we'll
bring him back. It's an important story, and one, of course, that we have been covering here on this show.
Well. in the meantime, the CEO of the popular social media app, TikTok, is in the hot seat right now facing questions from the U.S. house
congressional committee in Washington. It's been happening now for 5-plus hours. Some lawmakers are calling for a ban on the app, citing concerns
about national security and privacy for the 150 million Americans who use it.
Shou Chew says TikTok is safe, and the company plans to firewall U.S. user data from unauthorized foreign access. Well, many people allege that China
uses the app to spy. Ironically, TikTok itself doesn't even exist in China. Here's CNN's Selina Wang with a Chinese perspective on all of this for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pressure is building again in Washington to ban TikTok all because it's owned by a Chinese company
ByteDance.
In China, TikTok is banned; in fact, it never existed. Instead there is a separate version of ByteDance's app in China called (INAUDIBLE). Boasting
more than 600 million daily active users, (INAUDIBLE) is already a viral sensation in China.
Before TikTok launched overseas.
WANG: So I've got TikTok pulled up on my U.S. phone and going on this China phone. They've got very similar homepages and interfaces. The only
reason why I can access TikTok here in Beijing is because this phone has got an overseas SIM card in it and a VPN to get around China's internet
firewall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language).
WANG (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE) has some more sophisticated features, especially in live streaming and ecommerce and doing users under 14 can
only use the app for 40 minutes a day and see kids safe content.
Plus dogging automatically puts on this heavy beauty filter. When I opened up this camera function, media is heavily censored in China. So if I type
in a topic sensitive to the Chinese government on doing, say, like Tiananmen, 1989, nothing pops up. And I get a text that says no search
results available.
Versus on TikTok you'll see that a bunch of videos pop up about the massacre.
WANG (voice-over): One of Washington's concerns is that because of its Chinese ownership, Beijing could use its propaganda and censorship methods
on TikTok, too.
The other fear is that TikTok could be forced to hand over data to the Chinese government. But security experts say the national security risks
are hypothetical at best.
Beijing says the U.S. government has been abusing state power to suppress other countries' companies but the irony is that China has outright blocked
countless foreign websites and apps, including Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, Netflix and more.
On doing, Chinese state media has been sharing TikTok videos from angry Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Explain it to me, Joe. Why the sudden move to ban TikTok?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Chinese one our data, they could just buy the data on the free market that we love so much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Burden, I am 80 years old I'm not a teenager. There are quite a few million people on TikTok who are not going to vote for you
if you've ban this app.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking foreign language)
WANG (voice-over): Meanwhile nationalistic influencers on doing are accusing the U.S. government of using national security as an excuse to
crack down on TikTok because of America's fears of China. But it remains to be seen if TikTok can convince Washington that it poses no threat -- Selina
Wang, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, in a moment, I'll be speaking to Shalini Kantayya, the documentary filmmaker behind "TikTok, Boom." In the film, she examines how
the social site impacts teens' mental health, a subject that has yet to receive much really in this -- in the way of any sort of credible research.
Here's a short clip. Have a look.
(VIDEO CLIP, "TIKTOK, BOOM.")
SOARES: Shalini Kantayya joins me.
Great to have you on the show. Before we even talk about the harmful impact of the platform. Here. Let me get your views from what we heard -- on what
we heard today from the CEO.
Are lawmakers Shalini justified you think in their concern and distrust of the app and the use of data here?
SHALINI KANTAYYA, FILMMAKER: Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely I think that the U.S. Congress has cause for concern. I don't know of the
security issues but I think what is more important here is a set of standards for health and safety across the tech industry for all social
media companies.
And I think TikTok is in the crosshairs at the moment because it happens to be the first social -- global social media app to eclipse Silicon Valley
that comes from a country that is not democratic.
But I think some of the issues that we have around health and safety and even data security are common to all social media platforms.
SOARES: Let's focus then on the risk they may pose or poses to children. From what you have seen Shalini from what you've documented. What are the
concerns?
Are there risks here?
KANTAYYA: I think what is unique to TikTok is that as late as 2020, "The New York Times" reported that a third of its users were under 14.
[15:35:00]
KANTAYYA: So TikTok has what many social media companies covet, as a prize audience, which is young people. And this is -- hasn't -- has -- is having
an impact on their mental health, on their attention and on their lives.
And in this massive, uncontrolled experiment, we are unleashing some of the most powerful AI recommendation algorithms in the history of the world on
brains that are not fully developed.
And we don't know yet what the full health impact of this is on children.
SOARES: You called an experiment and your final point I find quite intriguing because you know, I was looking for research Shalini here on the
impact it would have on children's mental health. I struggled to find anything at all.
Why is that?
I mean, surely TikTok knows how their product impacts teen. I mean, is it somewhat disappointing that embarrassing that we don't have this research
in the first place?
KANTAYYA: Absolutely. Here in the States one of the only legislations that we have to protect children was passed in 1988. It was the Child Online
Protection Act and -- or COPA and it was packed.
It was passed, in part because there was so much research that was coming out about the impact of broadcast media on children and the ways in which
we need to protect them and pass standards of health and safety from them.
And part of what's happening. Is that we can't get the research from these tech companies. And some of part of what we know comes from brave
whistleblowers like Frances Hagen, who talked about how Instagram had data of how social media was impacting young women and girls specifically and
mental health and body image.
And they hid the data for two years. And so part of the problem is that we're not getting the data about social media's impacts and real costs on
children's mental health.
SOARES: And this is something that I know parents have been asking for and want more information on. You said recently. I want to bring this graphic
up for something that you said.
You said when a company like TikTok starts collecting data about a child at age 10, by age 18, that algorithm might know your child better than you
know your child.
At the heart of this is the algorithm -- but this is a lot of power here, isn't it?
Shalini so talk to us about this algorithm and what's so different from this to matter, Instagram, Facebook and the like.
KANTAYYA: Well, none of us ever really knows what's in the special sauce of these black box algorithms. Whether it be Instagram or Facebook or
TikTok. But if you've ever used TikTok, you know that its AI recommendation algorithm is very powerful.
And it's taking data from maybe your data searches, biometric data; it's taking information about your -- what type of phone you're using. And your
IP address, your geolocation.
And it is incredibly sensitive information. When these recommendation algorithms are unleashed on children. And it's pulling data from children
at a very young age. And one of the legal scholars in my film on "TikTok, Boom," notes that this information, you know, if we -- if a company starts
collecting this information when a child is 13, by a child -- by the time a child is an adult, it can know you better than -- that algorithm can know
you better than a parent can know you.
And that gives it a really powerful power of suggestion.
SOARES: Absolutely fascinating, Shalini Kantayya, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us there from Los Angeles. Thank you.
KANTAYYA: Thanks so much.
(CROSSTALK)
SOARES: Turning now -- thank you. Turning now to fast moving developments in Israel on another day of dramatic anti government protests nationwide.
Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu just gave a televised address in the last 20 minutes or so, vowing to press ahead with the judicial overhaul that's
bitterly dividing the country.
He is promising to address the concerns of both sides right before his speech. He summoned Israel's defense minister to his office. He had planned
to make a speech of his own, reportedly to call for a halt to the judicial bills. Protesters are still out on the streets tonight.
They're furious that parliament passed legislation earlier today, making it harder to remove a prime minister from office. Opposition leaders slammed
it as corrupt, a corrupt personal law meant to shield Mr. Netanyahu.
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SOARES: Let's get more on all of this. Hadas Gold joins me now from Jerusalem.
So give us a bit more in terms of what the prime minister had to say in the last 20 minutes or so?
HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what could have been a very dramatic evening essentially ended in the prime minister, saying that
he plans to continue on with this planned judicial overhaul.
Despite what we have been hearing all afternoon and through this evening, Israeli media reports and I have now confirmed that the defense minister
had gone to prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and he had actually planned to give a speech, according to Israeli media reports, calling for the
judicial overhaul to be frozen.
Because of the fears over what it would do to Israeli national security. Now the defense minister, according to these reports, had been meeting with
the chief of the IDF, with the security heads. And all of them expressed concern because we have already heard reports from Israeli military
reservists, including the really important selective air force crews, who said that they would refuse the call to serve if called if this overhaul
passed.
But it wasn't just the situation amongst the reserves that was concerning. There was concern about how this was trickling down and the feeling and the
morale amongst all of the -- all of the soldiers all of the military.
And there was also concern about what it was doing. For security ties also abroad with other countries and international relations. And so that was
what the defense minister was planning to say.
He had a meeting with the prime minister beforehand and then he decided to -- essentially canceled his own speech and said Netanyahu went up to the
podium. And while he said that he does want to work with the other side and he understands the concerns of the other side and there are fears and that
these are real concerns.
He essentially said that he plans to push ahead. It's rather surprising when there are these very clear reports that the defense ministry and on
the IDF and all of these people are not denying that there is a real concern in the security establishment about what this overhaul would do.
Don't think about the financial issues, don't think about even the independence of the judiciary. These are people who all they care about is
national security. They think there's a national security concern here.
And instead of coming out and saying that he was going to be freezing the legislative process, he instead actually says that he is now going to get
even more personally involved.
Why is he getting more personally involved ?
Well, earlier today, a blog was passed that essentially said it's much more difficult to declare a sitting prime minister unfit for office. It would
only be able to be about physical or mental issues.
And 75 percent of the cabinet would have to declare that because right now Isa there's a petition in front of the Supreme Court to declare Netanyahu
unfit for office because of a conflict of interest declaration he agreed to as part of his corruption trial.
So essentially, he is now in his mind free to get personally involved into this judicial overhaul. And he says that now he will be stepping in. He is
calling for the opposition to have negotiations.
But we're hearing from the opposition leaders that they think that Netanyahu should have frozen the legislation, that he has not done so and
it's not clear whether they will actually be sitting down for these negotiations, because, Netanyahu says, he's pushing forward.
SOARES: Yes, I mean, extraordinary. What we've been seeing is very fast moving developments. I know. You'll stay on top of it for us. Hadas Gold,
appreciate it. Thank you Hadas.
Still to come tonight. The World Athletics Council has just made a major announcement on women's sports. Their decision on transgender athletes,
that is next.
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SOARES: Welcome back.
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SOARES: And of course, we'll be back after this short break.
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SOARES: Welcome back everyone.
In just a few hours. U.S. President Biden will head to Canada to meet with prime minister Justin Trudeau. It will be Mr. Biden's first presidential
trip to closely allied nation and the earlier visit was delayed by COVID restrictions. And of course, the war in Ukraine.
Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Biden has a packed schedule ahead of them. They'll discuss climate change, the opioid crisis, trade and immigration and the
deteriorating conditions in Haiti. Paula Newton just sat down with the prime minister, Justin Trudeau. She joins me now from Ottawa.
And Paula, we were trying earlier in the show to connect with Medecins sans Frontieres in Port-au-Prince, in the capital of Haiti to get a sense really
of the deteriorating situation on the ground.
We haven't been able to collect -- connect for some technical issues but give us a sense of how important the crisis in Haiti is to Canada and to
Mr. Biden here.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: I mean, look, Canada has been at the forefront of trying to get some kind of resolution, some modicum of
calm, even if it's just within a pocket of the capital. That just hasn't worked.
And you know how much the U.N. at this moment in time, wants a nation, a few nations to step in and really have boots on the ground, a security
force on the ground in Haiti, because right now the U.N. is saying, look.
Things are spiraling out of control and that this is rapidly deteriorating in terms of the humanitarian crisis. I want you to listen now, though, to
Trudeau when I asked him point blank. The president, Joe Biden, would like your country to lead a mission into Haiti. And here's what he said.
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JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Canada has been deeply engaged in Haiti for close to three decades. Now we have a very strong Haitian
community in Canada and we have very close ties with this country.
And we have been there to help with multilateral missions, with humanitarian missions, with a range of things. What is clear now is, as we
move forward -- and yes, Canada is doing a lot. We're continuing to support in many different ways and we're looking to do more.
But we have to ensure that Haitians, the Haitian people themselves and the Haitian institutions, are at the center of the path forward. And that's
what our focus is right now.
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NEWTON: "Haitian led" is codeword for no boots on the ground from Canada. At least not yet. It is something that the president and the prime minister
will continue to talk about.
And the United States really looking for Canada to step up here, especially given all the challenges throughout the world, not to least mentioned in
Ukraine.
SOARES: So no boots on the ground, Paula, so exactly what?
What kind of support will they be offering ?
Because, as you well know, as we've been discussing here for several days on end, weeks I should say, you know, the police can't -- doesn't have a
hand over the gangs.
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SOARES: They are going wild, it's kind of the wild, wild West there.
Who exactly would do that work from Haiti?
NEWTON: Yes. And I put that to the prime minister. Now look, what Canada has done is put in a few defense assets. That means in the air and at sea
in order to try and give the national police force there some kind of surveillance over what is going on with those very violent situation with
gangs.
Of course, right now, it has not made a difference. I think the international community's concerned right now, is that Haiti itself seems
at odds about how to proceed next. In terms of Canada's involvement, they want a clear mandate at this point in time with clear timelines before they
decide to go further than what they're already doing.
SOARES: Paula Newton for us there in Ottawa, Canada. Thanks very much Paula really appreciate. Of course, we will stay on top of this story for
you throughout the whole week. In fact and we'll try,, of course, to reconnect with our guest tomorrow in Port-au-Prince.
That does it for me for this evening. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here. quest means business is next. I'll see you tomorrow. Bye
bye.
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