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Isa Soares Tonight
Russia Accuses U.S. Of Alleged Kremlin Drone Attack; Proud Boys Members Found Guilty Over January 6th Capitol Hill Attack; Ed Sheeran Wins Copyright Case; Suspect Charged In Atlanta Mass Shooting; Israel Kills Palestinians Who Murdered British Israeli Settlers; Ed Sheeran Found No Infringement On Marvin Gaye Copyright; First In Utero Brain Surgery Performed In Boston; The Coronation Of King Charles III. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 04, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
LYNDA KINKADE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Lynda Kinkade in for Isa Soares, good to have you with us.
Well, tonight, Russia spreads the blame, as it accuses Washington of masterminding that alleged drone attack on the Kremlin. We will go live to
the Pentagon for that story.
Also, four members of the Proud Boys are found guilty for their role in the January 6th insurrection. More on the rare and serious charges. And news
just in, a jury rules that singer Ed Sheeran did not breach copyright with his smash hit, "Thinking Out Loud". We'll bring you an update from outside
the courtroom.
Well, blaming Ukraine wasn't enough. Russia now accusing the U.S. of involvement in the attack on the Kremlin. Moscow hasn't provided any
evidence for these claims. The Kremlin's spokesperson Dmitry Peskov was asked by CNN if they believed the U.S. was involved. He said decisions like
this are dictated to Kyiv from Washington. U.S. officials say the Kremlin's claim is ludicrous. Here was John Kirby speaking to CNN's Kaitlan Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, WHITE HOUSE: I will just tell you, Mr. Peskov is lying, I mean,
that's obviously it's a ludicrous claim. The United States had nothing to do with this. We don't even know exactly what happened here, Kaitlan. But I
can assure you the United States had no role in it whatsoever.
And again, just to be clear, I think you covered this at the beginning, we neither encourage nor do we enable Ukraine to strike outside Ukraine's
borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Russian President Vladimir Putin wasn't at the Kremlin during that incident. But he is reportedly back to work there today. He's said to
be calm after those blasts. The palace dome was slightly damaged, the Kremlin says two copper sheets will have to be replaced. Well, for the
latest on the U.S. assessment, CNN's Oren Liebermann joins us now live from the Pentagon. Good to see you, Oren.
So this did cause minor damage. But this was an attack on the symbolic heart of the Russian state. An attack on one of the most heavily-protected
government buildings in the world. Russia is taking this very seriously. What else is the U.S. saying?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you heard right there, the basic U.S. position is that this is part of the Kremlin's lies, trying
to blame the U.S., first blaming Ukraine, actually, and then saying it was the U.S. that dictated Ukraine's actions, again, without any evidence here.
You heard John Kirby there, call these claims ludicrous.
The U.S. says, and this is from the director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, just a little bit earlier today, that there isn't an
assessment here, the U.S. is still looking at this, but there isn't all that much data or info to pour over and to look at, to figure out exactly
what happened. So there isn't a position from the U.S. on who may be responsible for this.
A lot of this info is simply from the videos we've seen of a slight explosion near a flagpole above part of the Kremlin. But that isn't much to
go on. Regardless, this is at least, partly embarrassing for Russia and for the Kremlin. That a drone was able to get this close to one of the most
heavily-guarded government compounds in the world, that's hundreds of miles, some 700 or 800 miles away from Ukraine.
So if it is Ukraine, they managed to infiltrate a drone from hundreds of miles away into an incredibly heavily-guarded area, they got through the
Kremlin's layers of air defense and managed to explode right over the Kremlin. Regardless, it is at least, slightly embarrassing for the Kremlin
to have to deal with this, and for Russia to have had this happen all the way in the heart of Moscow.
Which should be safe, at least, theoretically, from a war that's so far away. Russia's position is clear. They blame the U.S., they blame Ukraine,
and when Kremlin's spokesperson Dmitry Peskov was asked about a response, he said it would be varied and would correspond to Russia's interests.
Lynda.
KINKADE: Yes, so Oren, the big question remains, who is behind this? Given that the Ukraine has denied any responsibility, the U.S. has denied any
responsibility. Has the U.S. suggested other possibilities like a pro Ukrainian group in Russia?
LIEBERMANN: Not officially. Not at this point has any U.S. official come out and said, this may be an explanation, partly because, perhaps, there
isn't that much data to base an explanation on. There's no evidence, clear evidence, that is, one way or another of who may have been behind this war.
[14:05:00]
Whether it was simply a Russian false flag operation to carry out more attacks on Ukraine. Certainly, U.S. officials are looking at the scanned
data and evidence that is out there, they're trying to piece that together, but given that this happened still at this point, fairly recently, there
isn't yet a conclusion or even a possible conclusion that has surfaced at this point, Lynda.
KINKADE: Yes, certainly embarrassing for the Kremlin, for Russia as you say. Oren Liebermann, good to have you with us, thanks so much. Well,
Russia has unleashed a new wave of missile and drone strikes against Ukraine. New explosions were reported in Kyiv a short time ago. And one
official called an earlier pre-dawn raid, the worst attack on the capital since the start of the year.
They also said all projectiles were destroyed. To the south, Ukraine reports Russian shelling on Wednesday which killed at least, 23 people
around Kherson. There were also reported attacks on Odessa. Well, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been in the Netherlands, meeting with
Dutch and Belgian leaders, and visiting the International Criminal Court.
He used the visit to renew calls to prosecute Russia for war crimes. Well, some of Ukraine's most seasoned troops are preparing right now to launch
what could be a long awaited counteroffensive. They're training with U.S.- made gear, and as they showed CNN's Nic Robertson, they're already well acquainted with their enemy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Ukraine's counteroffensive is edging closer. Momentum building at secret locations.
These battle-hardened storm troops in live fire training, honing tactics to take trenches just miles from the frontlines where they often put their own
lives on the line.
Vlad(ph) shows us video of him storming Russian trenches a few days ago. He shouts to the Russian troops to surrender. They shoot back, the fight
continues. "They wouldn't surrender", he says. "We killed three of them without grenades.
(on camera): When you're already fighting so well, what's the point of doing extra training like this?
(voice-over): "You can't do enough training", he says. "You must do it all the time to be ready."
(on camera): There is every possibility the next time these troops go back to the frontline, it could be part of the big counteroffensive operation,
they don't know, and their commanders certainly aren't saying.
(voice-over): Most of these troops in their early 20s. The U.S. made M113 they're training with a 60-year veteran of the type of infantry assault
they'll need to punch through Russian lines. Train, and train again, drilled into these young warriors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's never enough to do -- like you must train every day. If you're not training, you will die.
ROBERTSON (on camera): That simple?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ROBERTSON: And have you seen -- you've been in the frontline. Have you lost friends?
UNIDENTIFIEED MALE: Yes, I've lost a couple of friends. I don't know what to say else, it's terrible.
ROBERTSON: Psychologically, you know, that could be you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but like -- we all can die in one minute. For me, it's nothing. Like OK, so what? I am defending my country, I'll die like a
hero, it's OK for me.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Confidence here has been hard-earned. Camaraderie cemented in action. It's a test of their training coming, the only
question, when? Nic Robertson, CNN, eastern Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, now to a nation trying to understand why a school shooting in Serbia on Wednesday left nine people dead, eight were children.
Officials say a teenage boy opened fire on his classmates at a school in Belgrade after watching an American documentary about a school shooting the
night before. The motive for the attack is still unclear. The country will observe three days of mourning, starting on Friday.
Our Scott McLean is standing by in the Serbian capital and joins us now. Scott, we are now learning more about the shooter, just 13 years old, and
the potential motive, what more can you tell us?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lynda, look, I think people in this country, you can still see they're still coming to pay their respects. It
seems like they are also trying to figure out what happened, and trying to make sense of this and figure out who or what to blame. And there's been
plenty of discussion about mental health, about parental responsibilities, the influence of media and social media, and of course, about guns.
[14:10:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCLEAN (voice-over): Droves of kids from schools across Belgrade showed up to pay their respects to the nine lives lost in Serbia's worst-ever school
shooting. The students stood in silence, others didn't know what to say.
PETAR SKENDERIJA, BELGRADE RESIDENT: It's absolutely terrifying that, that happened in Serbia -- I mean, in Belgrade. It's -- I can't even find the
words.
MCLEAN: Six students and a teacher were wounded, two remain in this children's hospital blocks from the school fighting for their lives. At a
blood donor clinic nearby, twice the usual number of people have shown up to donate. There's no urgent need, people just want to do something.
PETAR MILENKOVIC, BLOOD DONOR: I was about to tears. I mean, what can you say when you hear something like that happening? You know, wherever,
especially when it's here in Serbia when it has never happened before.
MCLEAN: The motive for the shooting is still under investigation. But the police chief says that the suspect, just 13 years old had not been bullied,
but had recently fallen out with his friend group. Chief told us there was no evidence the boy had taken drugs, and the night before he says, the teen
watched TikTok and an American documentary about a school shooting.
VESELIN MILIC, POLICE CHIEF, BELGRADE (through translator): This murderer said that he had seen some weird American film where a boy did the same in
his school, the murderer had no empathy or remorse.
MCLEAN: The suspect's parents have been detained, but so far not charged. The boy is too young to be held criminally responsible. But he apparently
was not too young to know how to use a gun, boldly changing clips as he moved through the school.
(on camera): If this gun-range in the basement of this Belgrade soccer stadium, where police say the suspect came with his father. The police
chief says it is not legal for minors to handle guns in this country. Prosecutors say they're looking into it, the range has so far declined to
comment.
MILIC: It's neither normal nor natural.
MCLEAN (voice-over): Wednesday night outside the Education Ministry, students chanted for the minister to resign over the incident. He's offered
it, though his deputy insists the school was as safe as it could have been. It even had a police officer patrolling the perimeter when the first shots
were fired.
MILAN PASIC, DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION, SERBIA (through translator): At this moment in time, unfortunately, all the security measures were in
place. Unfortunately, it happened in school, but it could have happened on the street in the park. In any case, this is just one tragic case.
MCLEAN: That is not good enough for some teachers, who are planning to walk out on Friday over safety concerns. Meanwhile, students at this school
will be back in their classrooms on Monday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCLEAN: So that police officer who was on the school campus at the time that the first shots were fired was armed, but they didn't go inside the
school immediately, instead, they waited for backup, and then went inside a few minutes later. Now, of course, in the United States, officers there are
trained to go to the sound of the gunfire and try to take out the shooter.
In this case, it is not clear what the Belgrade police protocols are. We have been trying to get clarity on what the protocols are, and whether they
were followed. But so far, we don't have any, Lynda.
KINKADE: And Scott, we know that gun ownership in Serbia is amongst the highest in Europe. But mass shootings are rare. What sort of action is
being discussed going forward to ensure that this doesn't happen again?
MCLEAN: Yes, so, Lynda, of course, there are still plenty of illegal guns left over in this country from conflict in the 1990s. But getting a gun
legally here, you have to jump through some hoops. You need to get a medical check, a background check, and you also need a good reason to have
one, in addition to actually taking a gun safety training course.
The government has already proposed, though, in the wake of this shooting, to review all current gun licenses that have been handed out within the
next three months. They are also proposing legislation that would put a moratorium on new gun licenses for the next two years. They are also
looking at other things unrelated to guns, like banning potentially cellphones inside of schools and also putting new curbs on social media.
Lynda?
KINKADE: All right, Scott McLean for us in Belgrade, thanks so much. Well, four members of the Proud Boys, including the group's national leader, have
now been found guilty of seditious conspiracy over the January 6th insurrection. This is the greatest charge in connection with the riots so
far. A fifth member of the far-right group is facing various felony charges. The jury is not done deliberating just yet. It's still undecided
on some other counts.
[14:15:00]
CNN's Katelyn Polantz, she's in Washington with more on this story. So Katelyn, this trial has lasted for nearly four months so far. Four members
found guilty facing up to 20 years behind bars. Just explain this charge of seditious conspiracy.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, Lynda, this is not a light charge to be levied against anyone, and it's not something that
the U.S. Justice Department uses very often when it is bringing cases. It is a charge that accuses people of trying to overthrow the U.S. government
or hinder its execution of laws by force.
Force, being a key thing there. And a jury today did find four leaders of the Proud Boys are guilty of doing just that related to January 6th at the
U.S. Capitol. And not only that, with this charge, one of those men that was found guilty today, Enrique Tarrio, the founder and leader of the Proud
Boys, he was not even in Washington D.C., or on the grounds of the Capitol on January 6th.
And so, prosecutors had to argue to the jury and show them evidence that Enrique Tarrio would have engaged with the other men in a way where they
were planning for violence, hoping for violence, talking as this was going on, as the riot was going on and then celebrating when it did happen. They
showed things to the jury like a message that Tarrio sent to other Proud Boys on January 6th, saying, "make no mistake, we did this."
And so, there are still some counts that the jury is still deliberating on. There is a fifth man that they have not yet decided whether or not he
should be convicted of seditious conspiracy, his name is Dominic Pezzola, he's been seen in many images on that day with the police riot shield,
breaking into a window. He, prosecutors say, was at the tip of the spear of the crowd, breaking into the U.S. Capitol, leading rioters, leading Trump
supporters into a frenzy to get inside.
He has been convicted on some of those charges related to violence toward police, stealing that police riot shield. But it is not yet clear yet where
the jury is going to come down with him partaking in this conspiracy. But it still is such a significant win for the Justice Department. They have
had a seditious conspiracy case before where they have found people in other right-wing groups guilty.
But this Proud Boys case is one of the hardest fought, longest fought cases, and one of the most serious investigations to emerge out of that
January 6th Capitol riot, and the justice the Justice Department has wanted to bring around it.
KINKADE: Yes, and you have to wonder what this means for the future of the Proud Boys. Katelyn Polantz, good to have you on the story, thank you.
Well, to Sudan where the U.N. says almost half a billion dollars could be needed to support people desperately fleeing the violence. Fierce fighting
is continuing despite an extension of a ceasefire, with both sides blaming each other.
The U.N.'s Refugee Agency predicts a total of 860,000 people could flee by October, putting the cost of the refugee response at $445 million. This, as
the Red Cross has just announced an emergency appeal. Well, still to come tonight, the worst U.S. banking crisis in years may not be over. Why
investors fear yet another regional lender may be on the verge of collapse.
And new details in Wednesday's mass shooting that left much of Atlanta in fear during an eight-hour manhunt. What the suspect's mother is telling
CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
KINKADE: Welcome back. Concerns are deepening today about the viability of U.S. regional banks after yet another one said it's looking for a financial
lifeline. Shares of PacWest Bancorp are getting hammered today, plunging to a record low. The bank says it's exploring all strategic options after
reports emerged that it is considering a sale.
Three U.S. banks have already collapsed this year. All right, I want to bring in CNN's Matt Egan for more on all of this. Matt, the biggest
question, obviously, right now is, will PacWest be the next regional bank to collapse? I mean, how do things stand?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Lynda, it's too early to say, but I mean, at a minimum, PacWest is the next bank that is under fire from investors.
It is startling to see a major bank lose about half of its value in a single day. Dramatic losses. PacWest, it did say in a statement that they
are not experiencing, quote, "any out of the ordinary deposit flows following the sale of First Republic and other news."
So, they're sort of saying, they are not suffering an ongoing run on deposits, which of course, is encouraging. The bank is saying, though, that
they're exploring all other options, which is code for they're looking for some help right now. Now, this is not just about PacWest, though, because
we've seen a number of other regional banks fall very sharply today after weeks of losses, Western Alliance, this is an Arizona bank, down very
sharply.
This is after the "Financial Times" reported that this bank is also potentially up for sale. Western Alliance though, pushing back very
strongly on this -- against this report. They're saying that it's quote, "categorically false". They say the company is not exploring a sale, they
have not hired any advisors. They're even considering legal options against the "Financial Times".
Still though, I think when you zoom out, I think there are these ongoing concerns that appear to be getting worse among investors, about just how
regional banks are going to make money in this environment. Right now, deposit costs for them are going up, their loans are going down and that is
never a good recipe for banks.
KINKADE: No, it certainly isn't. Right now, given the number of banks collapsing, regional banks, this is considered the most serious banking
crisis since the financial crisis in 2008. Why now? Is this a domino effect we're seeing?
EGAN: Well, this is the most serious since 2008. But we should also note that it's not 2008. I mean, this is not a full-blown financial meltdown.
The system is a lot stronger than it was in 2008. The regulations are a lot tougher. But as far as why we're seeing this period of stress right now,
well, it's not all that surprising because the Federal Reserve spiked interest rates.
Like 5 percentage points of increases in just over a year. We haven't seen anything like that since the early '80s, under Paul Volcker. And history
shows that when the Fed spikes rates, something tends to break. These rate hikes have hurt the value of the bonds that banks are sitting on. Then you
can see the ten straight rate hikes by the Federal Reserve.
They moved to smaller rate hikes, but they're still raising interest rates. Now, the other thing though, of course, is the collapse of Silicon Valley
Bank in March. That collapse, which kind of came out of nowhere, really forced investors to search for what other banks share those
characteristics.
[14:25:00]
Namely, a lot of uninsured deposits that could flee the bank. And so, investors have been kind of searching for the next weakest link in the
system. You know, first with Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank, we also obviously saw Credit Suisse come under pressure in Europe. First
Republic Bank imploded and became the second largest failure in U.S. history just this week.
And now, the attention is on PacWest, and I think that investors are going to continue to search for the weakest links in the system until something
breaks that cycle, until they start to feel better and confidence gets restored in the system.
KINKADE: Yes, let's hope that comes sooner rather than later. Matt Egan for us in New York, thank you. Well, still to come tonight, sheer relief
for Ed Sheeran, a jury sides with the musician in his high profile copyright case. Plus, neonatal care in the U.S. has reached new heights
with a successful brain surgery in utero. That story and much more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back, I'm Lynda Kinkade. We are learning new details about Wednesday's mass shooting in Atlanta, Georgia. Twenty-four-year-old
coast guard veteran Deion Patterson is charged with one count of murder and four counts of aggravated assault. Police say he opened fire at a medical
building, killing one woman and wounding four others, three of whom remain in intensive care.
In a statement, the suspect's mother pleaded for mental illness to be taken seriously. Joining us from Atlanta is Ryan Young. Ryan, this gunman was
able to evade police for some eight hours yesterday, even with the mother of the accused helping police locate him. Patterson has waived his rights
to appear in court today. What exactly does that mean?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Well, usually somebody who is arrested gets a chance to figure out if not they're going to have bond or not. So
him waiving his right also keeps him from going in front of a judge and basically resets the court date. So one of the things people are told, if
they go to court, they may have to face cameras, they may have to face the public.
So sometimes people who are accused of something that's as horrific as this, that might be the reason why someone would waive.
On top of all that, according to the shooter's mother -- or should I say, the accused shooter's mother, they want to make sure that in a situation
like this, when someone is facing mental health issues, they are evaluated from top to bottom sometimes before they go to court as well.
So this -- so many pieces that are connected to this. You see that building right behind me. That's where the shooting happened. That's where it all
took place, on the 11th floor. There were people who were going into this medical center for help.
But unfortunately, were facing a man, running around, who was very disturbed, with a handgun, opening fire. And of course, one lady lost her
life in that shooting as well.
KINKADE: Yes, this shooting hits close to home for me. I was at a field trip for my kindergarten kids' class yesterday a half a mile from where
this active shooting was taking place.
And that 39 year old mother was -- is a mother at my child's elementary school. This is yet another family ripped apart by gun violence.
What more can you tell us about her and the other women shot?
YOUNG: That's the part we are still learning, especially you think about the fact there are still people at the hospital right now trying to
recover. I talked to someone who works with victims in the area.
And they are worried about the idea of the increased trauma throughout the area. So many kids were put on lockdown yesterday as part of this overall
lockdown during the shooting.
Then you have the victims who two are still in critical and will have to have additional surgeries. One victim, we are told, of the shooting may get
released this afternoon because they were grazed somewhere in the upper body. But they might be able to get out of the hospital.
One other person is in intensive care. You understand, this will be a long process. We do know some of the victims have been able to talk to the
medical professionals at the hospital to tell them how they are feeling.
When you put all this together, this is a medical community that is shaken, because this happened at a medical complex. When you add the additional
trauma to this, one woman in Midtown was saying she hopes the city doesn't just move on from the shooting, that there is some sort of memorial placed
outside this location, so people can grieve together.
Obviously, we are having so many shootings back to back, that people think they are all get lumped together. This has really shocked this community
with a lot of emotion and pain.
You think about that mother, desperately trying to help police find her son yesterday during that eight hours. No one realized he went down the street
and carjacked a car and was able to get to Cobb County.
All that they were able to put together and bring this to a close. Several people were amazed that this ended with him being captured alive and this
not ending a lot worse.
KINKADE: Yes, which, of course, is rare. But I'm sure many people in the community do want to see change so this doesn't continue with this
trajectory, this trend. Ryan Young for us in Atlanta. Thanks so much.
Israel says its forces have carried out a raid in the West Bank today, killing the gunman responsible for the deaths of a British Israeli mother
and two of her daughters last month. Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Israeli authorities saying that their forces killed the suspected gunman in that attack that killed
the British Israeli mother and her two daughters last month in a town in the occupied West Bank.
Israeli authorities say more than 200 of their forces carried out a raid in the Old City in the (INAUDIBLE) of Nablus in the West Bank in a morning
tine raid. Normally these happen in the middle of the night or early morning hours. This one happened after most people were likely awake.
Israeli security forces saying that, when they surrounded a house or an apartment, where they believe these gunmen were hiding, they engaged in an
exchange of fire and the two suspected gunman, who they believed carried out the attack, were killed, as was a third Palestinian man, who was
helping to hide the men.
The militant group Hamas, who has claimed responsibility for the attack on the mother and her two daughters, said all three of them were their
operatives and described them as heroes of the Jordan Valley.
And now the father and husband of Lucy, Maya and Rina Dee said in a statement that he and his surviving children are delighted, he said, to
hear the terrorists were eliminated today. Most of all, he said, it was done in a way that apparently did not endanger the lives of Israeli
soldiers, because that was one of the most important things from their families' perspective.
And now Lucy, Maya and Rina Dee were killed why they were driving in their car in the occupied West Bank a month ago. A, gunman pulled up next to them
while they were driving, shooting at their car, killing the two daughters immediately.
[14:35:00]
And the mother, Lucy, died a couple days later in hospital.
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu also issuing a statement, saying, "Our message to those who harm us and those who want to harm us is that
whether it takes a, day a week or a month, you can be certain we will settle accounts with you. It does not matter where you try to hide. We will
find you."
This has already been some of the deadliest few months in the Israeli Palestinian conflict for both Israelis and Palestinians. It is on pace to
beat the record from last year, which was already the deadliest year for both Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank and in Israel since the
days of the Second Intifada.
This year, already on pace to beat that -- Hadas Gold, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Still to come tonight, a verdict has been reached in the Ed Sheeran copyright case. We won't just be thinking it out loud; we will be
telling you next.
Plus, live outside Buckingham Palace, as Britain prepares for its first coronation in 70 years. That story coming up.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KINKADE: Welcome back to some other news today. And he is used to filling out arenas but it was a courtroom that Ed Sheeran took center stage at
today.
In the past hour, a jury decided that his hit, "Thinking Out Loud," did not infringe on the copyright of the classic Marvin Gaye song, "Let's Get It
On." If you don't know those two songs, here's a quick reminder.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KINKADE: Both very popular songs. Speaking outside the court in the past few minutes, Sheeran said he welcomed the verdict, despite his frustrations
over having to defend himself. He had said previously that he would quit music if he lost the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SHEERAN, SINGER-SONGWRITER: I'm obviously very happy with the outcome of the case. It looks like I'm not having to retire from my day job after
all. At the same time, I'm unbelievably frustrated that license claims like this are allowed to go to court.
We spent the last eight years talking about two songs with dramatically different lyrics, melodies, chord progressions, which were also different,
and used (INAUDIBLE) every day all over the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Chloe Melas is outside the courthouse in New York.
[14:40:00]
Good to have you with us, Chloe. As a professional musician, Ed Sheeran said he was personally offended by this, being sued for $100 million for a
copyright infringement for this chord progression.
He said the allegations were very insulting, saying no one owns these chords. If the plaintiffs won, I'm done with music. He even performed in
court to make his case, didn't he?
CHLOE MELAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First of all, it's a very happy afternoon for Ed Sheeran, his legal team and the co-writer of "Thinking Out Loud."
This has been going on for eight years.
What his legal team has maintained -- and I sat in that courtroom, I listened for myself -- both sides argued it out. They said it's a common
four chord progression found in songs that predate the 1973 hit by Marvin Gaye written also by Ed Townsend, "Let's Get It On."
That four chord progression is essential for musicians to be creative and continue to create music. I will say that, after the verdict was read, we
had some reporters in the courtroom.
Nikki Brown (ph) told me she actually saw Kathryn Townsend (ph) hugging Sheeran or a little bit of vice versa and that Ed said at one point, you've
got to come to one of my concerts.
Amy Waugh (ph), when I spoke to her a few moments ago, she said that is just exactly who Ed Sheeran is. And no bad blood, just happy for this to be
behind them. At the end of the day, they've always maintained that they were not influenced by and did not steal anything from "Let's Get It On."
So I think this is an important moment for the music industry as a whole today.
KINKADE: It certainly is. I want to ask about that. Obviously, both these songs are very popular, two famous musicians using very well-known lawyers.
In terms of what this could have meant, had Ed Sheeran lost, what sort of precedent would that have set?
MELAS: If I heard you correctly, if Ed Sheeran had not won, what Ed sheeran's legal team was maintaining is that this four chord progression,
if the Townsend family have the copyright for this four chord progression, that would mean that artists going forward would have to ask for permission
every time they would write a song with this four chord progression.
I've got to say, Kathryn Townsend (ph) said this was not about money. This was actually about just protecting her father's copyright. But obviously,
the jurors felt strongly about this decision. They didn't deliberate for that long.
We heard one of the jurors, juror number three, come out and address everyone. She simply said, "The songs just don't sound alike."
Even one of the jurors took a selfie with Ed Sheeran. So I think it's a big moment for Ed Sheeran. But the music industry, like I said, as a whole, I
haven't had a chance to check my phone but I'm sure social media is blowing up right now with support for music artists.
KINKADE: Absolutely. This is one of the top trending songs -- stories today, as you would expect. Good to have you on the story for us, Chloe.
Thanks so much.
A team of doctors in Boston, Massachusetts, have raised the bar in neonatal care. They have successfully performed at the first in utero brain surgery
in the United States. Chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta has the details on this medical milestone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
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KENYATA COLEMAN, DENVER'S MOTHER (voice-over): On September 14th, we were able to have our first ultrasound. We saw a baby. We were extremely
excited.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was baby number four for Derek and Kenyata Coleman -- a girl named Denver --
and they were excited. But then, at their routine 30-week ultrasound, a nightmare began.
K. COLEMAN: I saw my doctor and we sat down and then she shared with me that something wasn't right in terms of the baby's brain and also her heart
was enlarged.
GUPTA (voice-over): The concern was this -- that big colorful mass you're looking at in baby Denver's brain. It's known as a vein of Galen
malformation and it shouldn't exist. Simply put, this vein was getting too much blood and too quickly.
DR. DARREN ORBACH, RADIOLOGIST, BOSTON CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Ironically, despite all of this blood going to the brain, it's not supplying brain
tissue. It's just going through the malformation like a short circuit right back to the heart.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Darren Orbach, a radiologist at Boston Children's Hospital, typically treats these rare malformations right after a baby is
born. But too often, that can be too late.
ORBACH: Fifty to 60 percent of all babies with his condition will get very sick immediately.
[14:45:00]
For those, it looks like there's about a 40 percent mortality.
GUPTA (voice-over): So Orbach and his team offered Kenyata and Derek something new -- a chance to treat Denver before she was born in utero.
Now keep in mind, in utero surgery also means they had to take two patients to the operating room instead of one and they had to then very carefully
thread a catheter right into the middle of that gigantic blood vessel inside a very tiny baby brain.
GUPTA: What was the biggest risk?
ORBACH: I would say the biggest risk is the fear of injury to the brain. We are accessing the head through the skull and through the dura and back
into the big collecting vein.
GUPTA (voice-over): In order to accomplish this, Kenyata was taken to the operating room and given an epidural and then Denver was rotated into the
right position and given anesthesia to keep her from moving.
K. COLEMAN: So after learning that she was in the ideal position that was more confirmation for me. Like, there's no backing out of this.
GUPTA: So babies in utero -- you sort of -- baby is flipped so that the back of the head is toward the abdominal wall. So this would be toward you
as the surgeon here. The needle is going to go then through the abdominal wall of mom and then through the occipital bone right here.
ORBACH: And at that point, we introduced the microcatheter through the needle and went up through the sinus to get to the big vein.
GUPTA (voice-over): And through that needle these tiny little coils were used to fill up the vein and change that big colorful mass into something
that looks like this. The actual procedure itself took just around 20 minutes.
Just two days later, Denver was born -- happy, healthy -- both baby and family.
D. COLEMAN: So this is Ms. Denver Coleman and she is about to change the world.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: She certainly is. What a remarkable story. Thanks to Sanjay Gupta for that report.
Still to come tonight, just two days to go until the coronation of King Charles. We will bring you up to speed on all the preparations ahead of the
big day.
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KINKADE: Welcome back. We are just two days away from the coronation of King Charles. The preparations in the U.K. are in full swing. Earlier, the
Prince and Princess of Wales delighted fans in central London. They visited a pub and local business owners --
[14:50:00]
-- to thank them for their work ahead of the celebrations.
This will be Britain's first coronation in seven decades. Our royal correspondent Max Foster walks us through what we can expect.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not since 1953 have we had a glimpse of this sacred moment, the crowning of a monarch. Queen
Elizabeth, then just 27, thrust to the throne after her father's untimely death.
Her coronation, designed to introduce the young queen to the world and give a morale boost to postwar Britain; 70 years on and amidst a cost of living
crisis, King Charles' coronation will have many of the same traditions incorporated, albeit slightly toned down.
Up to 2,800 guests in Westminster Abbey, CNN understands, versus the 8,000 who gathered for the late queen's.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The king has actually ruffled some feathers by not inviting many members of an ancient nobility, including some of the dukes,
in fact. (INAUDIBLE) the king invited members of the community. So charitable workers, for example.
FOSTER (voice-over): A sign perhaps that Charles wants to make the monarchy more accessible, though much of the pomp and ceremony will, of
course, remain.
He will sit on the coronation chair, used by monarchs for more than 700 years. He will be crowned with the St. Edward's crown, a gold, velvet and
jewel encrusted piece weighing more than two kilograms.
The coronation is, first and foremost, a religious ceremony, that culminates in the king's anointing with holy oil, which has been
consecrated in Jerusalem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is seen as symbolizing the king's commitment to God because he's a very religious man himself. He's now head of the church.
It's a sacred moment.
FOSTER (voice-over): His wife, Camilla, will also be anointed and crowned. Charles' sons, William and Harry, will be there, although Harry's wife,
Meghan, will remain at home in California with their two young children.
It remains to be seen what role Harry will play in proceedings, now that he's stepped back from his senior role duties.
FOSTER: For many in Britain, the coronation is about more than just another public holiday. There will be street parties up and down the U.K.
and thousands will come here to Buckingham Palace, to witness the famous balcony moment, to see, for the first time, the newly crowned king and
queen.
FOSTER (voice-over): Many more will line the streets for the coronation procession, just as they did for Queen Elizabeth seven decades ago. The
king and queen will travel in this gilded carriage, accompanied by a huge military procession. Nighttime rehearsals, spotted in the streets of London
as the capital gears up for a moment in history.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Let's get more now from Max, outside Buckingham Palace.
Great to see you there, Max. Big weekend for you and the team. Saturday, of course, marking the 40th coronation at Westminster Abbey since 1066.
Preparations, rehearsals already underway. Today, we saw Prince William and Kate showing us the beer will be flowing.
FOSTER: Yes. I had a thought for the other tube passengers because they got on the London Underground, first of all. You see them, they're getting
on the overground part of the Underground. Then they headed into a pub.
No such thing as a quiet pint if you are royals, of course. You can see them here chatting to people, learning about the Underground. This is how
many people will be getting to coronation celebrations.
And then they went to the pub. Kate is having a pint there as well as William. Then meeting various dignitaries. So could've been quite
(INAUDIBLE) opportunity but I think it went down really well.
Everyone really gearing up for the coronation. Down the mall, on the side of the mall where you can start camping, effectively, get your position
ahead of the coronation, all the spots are full, Lynda.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: -- you will have to have a second row seat.
KINKADE: Wow.
How many people are camping out there right now?
Give us a sense of how popular King Charles is, how popular the monarchy is and can you give us a sense of how many people are expected to show up
Saturday?
FOSTER: Well, it's really hard to tell, isn't it?
He has not been historically as popular as his mother or his sons or indeed his ex-wife. But this is the first big moment where he has his own state
occasion in his own right, with a global audience. We are in studio here, one of dozens here around the palace.
So it's a big moment for him. We will wait to see how many people tune in.
[14:55:00]
The big draw, I think, is that people around the world do love the pomp and pageantry of a British royal event. And this is peak pageantry, I would
probably say. You won't get any more than this. There will be 7,000 troops on the streets, 4,000 in the procession coming back from Westminster Abbey.
So there is no bigger show than this in British ceremonial events really. We have not seen anything like this since the last coronation. So I think
it will be a feast for the eyes.
Whether or not people then give Charles a chance, because he's not as popular as his mother was, after this, he will have to get down to
business, of course. Looking here at images of the rehearsals happening overnight, earlier in the week.
Everything is going to plan, which is pretty amazing, Lynda, because there's so much complexity to this.
KINKADE: Yes, certainly is. This is a massive event. King Charles has been (INAUDIBLE) for seven months so far. He does want to make the monarchy more
accessible for people.
It's hard to understand how we will see that amidst all the pomp and ceremony on Saturday. But it will be a spectacle. And we will be there. Max
Foster, we will be watching you. Thanks so much for joining us.
FOSTER: Thank, you Lynda.
KINKADE: Thanks so much everyone watching tonight. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
END
