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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. House Braces For Key Vote On Effort To Oust McCarthy; U.N. Sends A Multinational Force To Haiti To Combat Spiraling Gang Violence And Stabilize The Country; Four Former Nagorno-Karabakh Officials Arrested; House Now Voting To Block Gaetz-Led Effort To Oust McCarthy; U.N. Authorizes Armed Security Mission For Haiti; Vote To Defeat Effort To Oust McCarthy Fails. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 03, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:40]
ISA SOARES, HOST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, any moment now, the U.S. House of
Representatives will take a key vote on the fate of Kevin McCarthy's speakership. We'll bring you the details as they get underway. Then, the EU
approves more budget for Ukraine aid and reaffirm their support.
I will be speaking to the Portuguese foreign minister who's just returned from those meetings in Kyiv. Plus, the U.N. is sending a multinational
force to Haiti to combat spiraling gang violence and stabilize -- to stabilize the nation. We'll have the very latest for you.
But we start tonight with a historic day on Capitol Hill where the U.S. house is set to hold a key procedural vote on the effort to oust House
Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Let me show you those live images as the voting is expected to get underway.
This of course, just days after the top house Republican worked with rival Democrats to avert -- if you remember, a government shutdown. His reward --
well, a coup by hard-line pro-Trump Republicans led by Florida's Matt Gaetz. Democrats could have worked with McCarthy to keep him in power. And
here's what the chamber's top Democrat said about that earlier. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): We encourage our Republican colleagues who claim to be more traditional to break from the extremists, end the chaos,
end the dysfunction, end the extremism. We are ready, willing and able to work together with our Republican colleagues. But it is on them to join us,
to move the Congress and the country forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, it's not clear what comes next or who in fact, could, would replace McCarthy. A house speaker has never successfully been removed by
their own party in one of these motions to vacate. Donald Trump was one of the leading Republicans calling for the shutdown McCarthy avoided, and if
Trump is following today's events in Washington, well, he's doing yet as you can see there, in court.
He's been in New York for day two of his civil fraud trial, railing against the trial as a conspiracy to Democrats. Meanwhile, a frequent Trump target
has also been in court. Hunter Biden was formally arrested and released in Delaware as he faces federal charges over a gun purchase. Buying a gun is
legal in U.S., buying it while addicted to crack, is not.
And the allegations against Hunter Biden are going to trial after a plea deal collapsed. He says he's not guilty. It is the first time a child of a
sitting U.S. president has faced criminal charges. A lot for you to wrap your head around. Let's break this all down for you. I'm joined by CNN
senior political commentator Scott Jennings, he was a special assistant to former President George W. Bush, he's also a columnist for "USA Today", and
Stephen Collinson, a CNN politics senior reporter.
Gentlemen, thank you very much for being on the show. I just want to make sure that we bring our viewers the view from Capitol Hill from the U.S.
where we're waiting for this vote to start, because Scott, there's a lot of drama been playing out today as we wait for this vote. Drama, chaos, I
don't know what you want to call it.
Speaker McCarthy as we wait for that vote to start, Speaker McCarthy, Scott, today sounded defiant, but not willing, it seems from what I heard
today, not willing to have any sort of power-sharing agreement with the Democrats. The Democrats for their part, won't save him without some sort
of quid pro quo. So, how does McCarthy thread this needle, can he survive here?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He can survive. It's really going to come down to the math. If all the whole house shows up, he
can only lose five Republicans. However, there is some reporting in the last few minutes, that there may be four or five Democratic absences. And
so, if they don't show up, that reduces the overall number of votes that McCarthy would need to remain speaker.
So, the math here is, can Matt Gaetz get five or more Republicans and how many Democrats actually missed the vote? So just like it was when McCarthy
became speaker, it's going to be by the skin of his teeth, whether he hangs on here. And I frankly hope that he does because having an institution like
the house being held hostage by someone like Matt Gaetz is bad for the Republican Party and frankly, bad for U.S. governance.
[14:05:00]
SOARES: Right, I just want to make our viewers aware that we were looking at -- that's the previous motion, it's not started yet. But Stephen, I
mean, hearing -- you've seen this all play out. It's almost like a split- screen, what's all unfolding in New York and also on Capitol Hill.
It's in many ways -- it's kind of Donald Trump's sphere of influence from Capitol Hill, Matt Gaetz here leading the charge. To the fraud
trial/campaigning we've seen in New York. Talk first, the trial here, Stephen. And how much is at stake for Trump and his brand and his identity?
Because what I heard, remember -- I remember just in the stands yesterday, I heard Trump say, just you know, my financial statements, he said, are
phenomenal. And this is tied in to his image, isn't it?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Certainly. And just listen to Scott speak there. I was just thinking about, you have in Washington,
you have this chaos unfolding with the stunned politics of someone like Matt Gaetz who is very much in Trump's image.
In New York, you have the person who's most likely to be the Republican nominee in the presidential election, you know, not to put too fine a point
on it, ranting in the corridor about a court case for fraud, with which he's involved inside a courtroom.
It's not really -- I don't think the face the Republicans want to show to the voters next year. This case is very fundamental to Trump. It's easy to
forget, but back in 2016, this idea that Trump was a consummate businessman, a billionaire tycoon, was actually very important to his lot -
- a lot of his voters, who believe that would help him get things done.
You remember, he had that phrase, "I alone can fix it" --
SOARES: Yes --
COLLINSON: In his Republican convention speech. This fraud case is an attack on his very image, and it's very key to his power. Even now, if you
go to Republican events out in the primary states, people talk about how Trump is a very successful businessman.
That is a powerful image. It was helped by the "NBC Show", "The Apprentice". But this is key to Trump's political appeal and it's key to
his own self image of himself. He always talks about how successful his golf courses are, his businesses --
SOARES: Yes --
COLLINSON: His buildings all over the world. How he's got some of the best hotels in the world. It's fundamentally important to him, and that's why
this case -- I mean, I would suggest it means more to him than being impeached twice or some of these criminal --
SOARES: Yes --
COLLINSON: Cases for holding, you know, classified information. So it is very important to Trump.
SOARES: And Scott, I mean, the point that Stephen made when he -- when he just started that answer there was, you know, we have heard, I think it's
fair to say, we have seen some big politically-charged statements from Trump, who clearly sees this, Scott, as an opportunity to campaign to rally
his base.
That's -- that is clear from what we've heard. But this dysfunction that we have been seeing and this chaos on Capitol Hill, Republicans versus
Republicans. What does this do to the Republican Party? I mean, what is the message here to the electorate?
JENNINGS: Well, though, what it does to the party is that it takes the focus off of Joe Biden. You know, while all this is going on, there have
been a number of surveys, polls that have come out in the United States that have shown what a weak position Joe Biden is in.
His job approval is very low, people have very low opinion of how he's handled the economy. You've got more than half of Democrats in most surveys
saying they wish he wouldn't even run again. And so, Biden is in a particularly weak position. So, you might think, well, we should get out of
our own way and just let the Democratic incumbent you know, suffer.
But by having chaos in the house, by having Donald Trump in court, what you're doing is telling the voters that even though they may not like the
democratic incumbent on a number of fronts, you're calling into question your own judgment and your own ability to earn their votes and begin
governing the country. So, that's really the dilemma for the Republican Party.
Can you take advantage of a weak Joe Biden if you nominate someone like Donald Trump who may well be convicted of a felony by the time the
Republican National Convention or certainly the next election rolls around.
SOARES: And Stephen, while this is all of course, been playing out, we had some disturbing stories about Trump from John Kelly, I think the White
House Chief of Staff for Donald Trump who said this -- and in fact, I've got it up here, I don't have a -- can we put in a piler(ph), if we can
bring it up.
But I'm keen to say -- here we go, "a person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about. A person who
cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior who has served" -- I think he served -- served his country, he goes on, "for 40 years in peacetime and
war should lose his life for treason -- in expectation that someone will take action.
A person who admires autocrats", it goes on to say, "and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic
institutions, our constitution and the rule of law." I mean, these kind of scathing words, the trial, the chaos on Capitol Hill. Does any of this
dampen support for Donald Trump here?
[14:10:00]
COLLINSON: I think it could be an issue in the general election. All of this is discounted by Trump's voters who have bought into the -- can see
that Trump has advanced for years that they should listen to him and not listen to what the mainstream media talks about. All of these trials are
seen by a lot of those voters as evidence of political persecution.
These voters have been with Trump ever since 2016. He has an emotional connection with them, he is seen as someone that is standing up against
elites, and attempts by what he calls a deep state to unseat him. I don't think it's very helpful, any of this, for the voters in swing states and in
suburban districts who turned against Trump in 2020 and heard the Republicans in 2022.
I mean, I'm thinking of -- for example, one of the congressman that's been very to the fore in the house recently is Mike Lawler, who is a freshman
congressman from a New York district, which is always won by Democrats in presidential elections. He won that state in the 2022 midterm election.
He's exactly the kind of moderate Republican, the Republicans need to keep the house.
Potentially, someone like him could win a presidential election, but he's being in danger now, being swept out of office by a Democratic comeback,
just because of all this extremism in the Republican Party that many voters really disdain.
SOARES: Stephen, Scott, really appreciate you both taking the time, a very busy day on U.S. politics fronts, of course, this many -- the U.S. House of
Representatives -- that vote gets underway, of course, we shall bring it to you, expecting probably very shortly indeed. Thank you very much,
gentlemen.
I want to turn to Ukraine, where Ukrainian and Russian forces are fighting to a stalemate along the frontlines today as heavy artillery and aerial
bombardments keep either side from gaining much territory. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is visiting one of those frontlines in the
east.
The farthest he's traveled in fact, in the direction since the Russian invasion. Fred Pleitgen is with us now live from Ukraine. And Fred, you
and the team have been focused and particularly in eastern Ukraine. Talk to the importance of this visit, and the timing of this visit here.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's hugely important for those troops fighting in the east, but certainly,
also, very important for Ukraine in general after you had that decision in Congress to exclude the help for Ukraine from that emergency budget. And I
think one of the things that President Zelenskyy is trying to show is that he fully stands behind his troops.
But also, that those troops are going to continue to need western support and also, of course, western military equipment as well. He did visit a
unit today that had some western main battle tanks. And one of the things that we've been looking at is how the Ukrainians have improved at using
those western main battle tanks. Here's what we found.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Ukrainian troops trying to push forward on the southern front.
(ARTILLERY FIRE)
Leading the charge, a German-made Leopard 2 main battle tank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
PLEITGEN: Showing the Ukrainians say that they've gotten much better at using western armor.
(on camera): But in general, it's more of a fast assault-type way of using a tank, I assume.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, if you use it on the south, but not on the minefield.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): It was a major issue when Ukraine first started using tanks like these in its large-scale counteroffensive in late June,
expected to be an immediate game-changer, the Ukrainians now acknowledge losing both Leopards and American-made Bradleys in the vast minefields the
Russians had planted.
But a tank unit that uses the Leopard 2 tells us, they've vastly improved their skills. "We realize what we need to know with this tank", he says.
"The more you work, the more you understand and you start working automatically." That soldier, whom we can only identify as Barrs(ph) even
briefed Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on the Leopard 2, saying it easily withstood an explosion from a Russian Kamikaze drone.
"It's a good tank", he says, "it withstood the hits". The crew says western tanks like this also have better cannons, better range-finding and night
vision capabilities than Russian tanks. Major assets both on the southern and eastern frontlines.
(on camera): The Ukrainians say they've always known that these tanks have exceptional capabilities, but now they say, they're increasingly getting
used to using them effectively for assault.
(voice-over): The southern front remains the main thrust of Ukraine's counteroffensive. Kyiv releasing this video purporting to show Russian
vehicles hit near the town Tokmak, leading to massive explosions, even the Russia defense minister claims the Ukrainians haven't managed to break
through Moscow's defenses there.
"Through active actions, our troops significantly weakened the enemies combat potential and inflicted serious damage to him", he says. But the
Ukrainians say they are the ones with the momentum, also thanks to their improved use of tanks they've received from NATO countries.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:15:00]
PLEITGEN: And of course, Isa, the Ukrainians are hoping that those western main battle tanks are going to allow them to make more gains in the south
as well. But one of the things that we keep hearing from the troops here on the ground is that western equipment, obviously something they badly need.
But what they also badly need in the short term is more ammunition both for the tanks, but also for artillery as well, Isa.
SOARES: Fred Pleitgen for us there in eastern Ukraine, thanks very much, Fred. Well, western aid is top of mind for Ukrainian officials right now as
they look anxiously at the back-and-forth in Washington. Portugal's Foreign Minister Joao Gomes Cravinho was in Kyiv for meetings with the EU leaders
on Monday and joins us now from Lisbon.
Minister Cravinho, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us on the show this evening. As we outlined there, you were one of the many
ministers in Kyiv on Monday showing clearly, your support to Ukraine and to President Zelenskyy. That support as we frame that there and as we heard
from Frederik Pleitgen coming at a critical time. What was the overarching message from that visit, sir?
JOAO GOMES CRAVINHO, FOREIGN MINISTER, PORTUGAL: Well, thank you very much for having me on the show. I would say two messages really. One, the first
one, the most obvious and immediate is manifestation of clear solidarity with Ukraine, and of course, coupled with the notion that we are with
Ukraine for as long as it takes. So that's a very clear signal that we wanted to make in what was a historic visit -- this is the first time that
we meet in the format of Foreign Affairs Council outside of the European Union and without counting, of course, the multilateral frameworks.
The second message is also very significant. Which is that we are really a geopolitical Europe now. We have a clear notion of our strategic interest
and we have the availability to work jointly towards fulfilling those interests. And I think that by going to Kyiv as we did, all of us,
yesterday, this was a sign that the European Union is willing to pull its weight in the international geopolitical arena which is unfortunately, a
very disturbed one at the moment.
SOARES: Right, a very disturbed geopolitical arena as you set out there. And I mean, from what I've heard and I've heard from yourself just now and
also from other leaders, including from the NATO chief, there seems to be a resounding unity, right from Europe, European leaders. But I'm worried
foreign minister, how concerned you are about the hesitancy, the resistance, perhaps, to further military funding from the U.S. side where
aid for Ukraine remains a thorny issue let's say, with hard-line conservatives. How worried are you?
CRAVINHO: Well, I think that when the Russians invaded in February of 2022, there was a lot of concern about western unity. Would we be able to hold
together, and in the first two or three months of the war, there were in fact various different points of view. But over the course of this war, the
country has happened, we have come closer together, we have shown much greater cohesion than any of us I think imagined at the time.
So I think the track record is already a very good signal. Secondly, with respect to elections in the United States with respect to, of course, the
possibility of war fatigue, I don't think that we should discount those possibilities. I think that what it means is simply that we as politicians,
as governments have to make the case, continue to make the case for supporting the Ukraine, and by and large --
SOARES: Understood, yes --
CRAVINHO: Vast majority of our countries, there is very strong popular support.
SOARES: And I -- having said that, I do wonder whether you think that this is a sign of fatigue or weakening resolve. And the reason I ask this,
because this Republican blockade of Ukraine came the same weekend I think, as Slovakia, a member of NATO, previously a vocal ally of Ukraine voted
overwhelmingly for a former pro-Russia prime minister.
Does this geopolitical, this change that we're seeing in Slovakia, concerns as well by vote in elections in Poland, does that concern you at all in
terms of aid for Ukraine and support -- continued support for Ukraine?
CRAVINHO: Well, the European Union is composed of 27 democracies, which means that in any given year, there are four or five elections, and we have
to consider this as part of normal circumstances. However, I don't see any change. I don't see the -- any movement in terms of what is the solid
position of the European Union. We have as you pointed out, there is a reference -- sometimes Hungary is seen --
SOARES: Yes --
CRAVINHO: As a country that is supportive of Russia. However, we have had no fewer than 11 packages of sanctions approved unanimously with Hungary
and Poland.
[14:20:00]
We have had seven measures of support through with -- around 500 million euros each, through the European peace facility. Again, unanimity is
required. And so, I think with the new Slovakian government that has not yet even been formed --
SOARES: Yes --
CRAVINHO: I don't think we should prejudge. Actually, we think that there is a difference between campaign rhetoric and what will be the position of
a government that will have to be a coalition government. It's a government that is not going to be homogenous, it's a government that is going to have
different points of view on board.
And I don't expect, to be frank, that there will be any significant change to the European Union's position as a whole.
SOARES: Foreign Minister Cravinho, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us from Lisbon. Thank you very much, sir.
CRAVINHO: Thank you very much.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, few remain in the ethnic Armenian enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh after thousands fled the region. We have the
very latest for you. Plus, help for Haiti. Thousands have died in gang violence there this year alone, we'll explain the U.N.'s plan to help
restore order. That, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And if you're just joining us, a reminder of our top story this hour. Any moment now, the U.S. House of Representatives will hold a key
procedural vote on the effort to oust House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. It has driven -- and it is important to point out by McCarthy's fellow Republican
hard-liners who are angry that he worked with Democrats to avert a government shutdown.
In particular, Mr. Gaetz who -- Matt Gaetz of Florida who has been pushing for his ouster. We are monitoring the action in Washington, and of course,
we'll bring you the latest developments as soon as they happen. But clearly -- and a key day, historic day here today for Kevin McCarthy. We do not
know how the events will play out, whether will -- he will have enough support to say -- to stay, of course, as speaker of the house. As soon as
that gets underway, we of course, will bring that to you.
Four former officials from the capital city of Nagorno-Karabakh have been detained by Azerbaijani security services. Those arrests come after a
prominent local politician was indicted on multiple charges last week. Meanwhile, the disputed region is largely deserted after more than 100,000
Armenians left in an exodus.
[14:25:00]
Azerbaijani forces took control of the area. The International Red Cross says many of those remaining are sick, disabled and elderly. Our Scott
McLean has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The view from the ground shows road after road of abandoned shops and homes. From above, what was
once a bustling city just two weeks ago, now all but cleared out. The town square, a desolate ghost town filled only with belongings left behind. On
the road to Armenia, broken-down vehicles have been ditched, one still with a trunk full of clothing.
A U.N. mission reported estimates of between only 50 and 1,000 ethnic Armenians still inside Nagorno-Karabakh, everyone else was either afraid or
unwilling to live under Azerbaijani rule.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My nine-year-old son said let's go back to Stepanakert and live in a bouquet without any sweets or any
food, but at least in a home.
MCLEAN: The Red Cross is now going around the empty city of what Armenians call Stepanakert, looking for the tiny number of people still left.
MARCO SUCCI, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: Elderly who could -- who cannot move, bedridden patients who were left with food, provisions and
water just close to the bed in order to be fed and fine for a few days is really heartbreaking to see how difficult it's been for those leaving, but
also, how difficult it is for those who remain here.
MCLEAN: All told, well over 100,000 people have fled to Armenia.
(on camera): Is that the desired outcome?
HIKMET HAJIYEV, ADVISER TO AZERBAIJAN PRESIDENT: Actually no, in no way that's going to decide an outcome, because Azerbaijan on multiple occasions
answer different channels, and also publicly, stated that the upper way in rise in security of Armenian residents is in Karabakh. Because most
conflict situations, that element was a panic, unfortunately, it also happens.
And also what we see, there was an element of manipulation in Vahagn regime as he's tried also to spread panic among the civilian population.
MCLEAN (voice-over): Hajiyev would not unequivocally say that all ethnic Armenians would be entitled to keep or sell their homes in Nagorno-
Karabakh. But Azerbaijan has promised and delivered freedom of movement to allow people to leave, even for those who took up arms. Though there are
some high-profile exceptions, like the former State Minister Ruben Vardanyan arrested on the border.
His children have pleaded for international help, securing his release. Meanwhile, the president of the former separatist government Samvel
Shahramanyan is still in the region.
(on camera): He has not been arrested.
HAJIYEV: He is not under arrest and he continues his interaction with appropriate Azerbaijani authorities.
MCLEAN: Is it possible that he will be arrested?
HAJIYEV: I don't know, I don't have an answer to that question, because it's an illegal question and therefore there should be legal answer for
that.
MCLEAN (voice-over): Meanwhile, in Armenia, the parliament voted to join the International Criminal Court, the hope is to get justice for alleged
crimes across the border in Azerbaijan. On a piece of land that very few Armenians still live on. Scott McLean, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, thousands killed, hundreds of thousands displaced not by a natural disaster, but by gang violence in Haiti. A look
at the U.N.'s plan to help. Also, he's the world's second richest man. The powerful CEO of the company behind luxury brands like Tiffany, Christian
Dior and Louis Vuitton. Now, prosecutors say he's at the center of an investigation involving a Russian oligarch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:32:26] SOARES: A reminder of our top story this hour. We're waiting for the U.S. House of Representatives, which is set to hold the key procedural vote on
the effort to oust Republican House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. That vote could come any minute.
The effort to oust Kevin McCarthy isn't coming from Democrats but from Republicans. They were angry over the deal McCarthy struck to avoid a
shutdown. I'm just being told by my team that the vote is underway this very moment. It just started.
And of course, this is all about McCarthy, whether he can hang by a thread here. And it is being led by one man in particular that we saw on the
screen briefly. That was Matt Gaetz of Florida, who has been pushing for his ouster, for McCarthy's ouster.
We do not know to be completely honest how this will play out. But it's offering a motion to vacate the chair, very rare procedural maneuver that
can be used to force a vote to remove the Speaker.
If the procedural vote fails, they'll be a vote directly on whether to remove him as a speaker. Stephen Collinson joins me now.
The vote is now underway, Stephen, I don't how long this will take. But from our earlier conversation you and I had 50 minutes or so, it doesn't
look like Kevin McCarthy has the votes here, at least it didn't seem like it earlier on. And it didn't seem like he was willing to do any sort of
deal with the Democrats.
What are you expecting here?
COLLINSON: Right, what's going on right now, it's called a motion to table, which is effectively an attempt by McCarthy's people to kill off the vote,
to get rid of him as speaker. There would be two votes.
This is the first one. If McCarthy survives this, then Matt Gaetz's resolution, the motion to vacate is laid on the table. That means it's not
going to be brought up. The math is exactly the same. McCarthy looks like he is struggling to win this vote, of which he needs a simple majority. If
he loses, it will go on to a vote to topple him as speaker.
[14:35:00]
(CROSSTALK)
SOARES: Sorry, Stephen, he's already got 10 though. He's already got 10 nays.
COLLINSON: I'm sorry?
He's already got 10 nays, that doesn't bode well.
COLLINSON: No but these votes are very complicated. Some of those nays could be Democratic votes. I can't quite see the --
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINSON: -- sometimes people vote one way and then they change their vote during a vote. They could be persuaded during a vote to change the vote. So
until we get to the end of this, it is very difficult to be sure exactly what's happening.
So if McCarthy survives this vote, it would go to the motion to vacate. If he does not win that vote, then we could be into this whole new period of
trying to choose a new speaker. There doesn't seem to be any real standout candidate.
It's very possible McCarthy could choose to run again as speaker. In January, he had to go through 15 rounds of votes over multiple days in his
own coalition to try and get enough votes, a simple majority of the House, to be speaker.
So this is basically a Republican civil war that's unfolding. One of the reasons why McCarthy is in such a difficult spot today and is so weak and
vulnerable is that he gave up so many coalitions to the Right back then. He set up this kind of new period of uncertainty for himself today.
So it's going to be very interesting to see how this unfolds. Of course, the Democrats have decided they're not going to try to help McCarthy, to
get conditions from him, to get concessions from him to carry on. I don't think it's a huge surprise just because he is deeply unpopular among
Democrats.
They don't trust him. He, after all, went down to Mar-a-Lago and resurrected Donald Trump's career after the Capitol insurrection. He has
helped Donald Trump deny the result of the 2020 election. And he's opened impeachment inquiries into President Biden.
So there's very little incentive for the Democrats to help him. I think there is quite a lot of incentive for Democrats just to sit there and watch
these votes and see the Republican Party damage itself.
SOARES: We could be looking here, we could really be looking, Stephen, at a prolonged fight over getting a speaker or a functionless House.
COLLINSON: Right --
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINSON: -- even if McCarthy were to survive, I don't think it's very likely he would be strengthened by the experience. We've got this
possibility again, of the whole government shutdown showdown taking place. It was narrowly averted over the weekend.
All the questions that have caused this moment of weakness for McCarthy, the fact that he had to do some compromises with Democrats because the
Democrats control the Senate and the White House, all that will come up again.
So this Republican conference is riven by divisions; there are many pro- Trump congress men and women who basically are there, their whole modus operandi is not governing but it is creating chaos and getting attention.
It is, in many ways, I think, a ungovernable coalition conference in the House for the Republicans. And it makes America, in many ways, ungovernable
itself.
SOARES: On that last point, Stephen, I mean, there are a small group of congressmen, congresswomen, who, like Matt Gaetz, who very much are pushing
for this, will probably vote against speaker McCarthy.
Do we know who they're willing to support, what the alternative is, who they want?
COLLINSON: Matt Gaetz was asked about this earlier today. And he couldn't really come up with an answer. I think there's a lot of personal animosity
between Matt Gaetz and Kevin McCarthy.
Matt Gaetz is one of these -- he's a politician very much in Donald Trump's image. He spent a lot of time on conservative TV channels. He's a rabble
rouser, some people think he's trying to get attention have a run for Florida governor because Ron DeSantis is running for president.
And his term limited down there so there's a lot of other incentives that Matt Gaetz has going on. The question is, you know, will McCarthy, if he
doesn't win today, will he fold it and walk away?
As Republican speakers previously have, they've gotten just fed up with this right-wing faction. John Boehner and Paul Ryan for example, in recent
years.
Or will he carry on fighting?
That's a big question I think. But this Republican conference will make whoever leads them, I think, because of their divisions, because of the
outside influence of Donald Trump, it will be like this until the 2024 election.
One of the reasons is because there's such a small majority in the House, the Speaker can only lose four votes and pass a bill. That's why people
like Matt Gaetz, even though group is pretty small --
[14:40:00]
COLLINSON: -- five, 10, 15 members that's holding him to ransom. They've got a lot of power just because of that minority. That majority is so
small.
SOARES: Kind of, as Democrats may say, it's of his own doing in many ways. Stephen Collinson, appreciate it, thank you very much.
About 7.5 minutes left on the vote. We'll keep an eye on the voting and bring you the results as soon as we get them.
The United Nations is sending a multinational force to Haiti, to deal with deadly gang violence. More than 2,000 people have been killed and hundreds
of thousands displaced this year alone.
The gangs there are so brash that some march in the street like this group, demanding the armed overthrow of the Haitian prime minister. Haiti
requested help and Kenya volunteered to lead the U.N. force. Kenya's president says the country is ready to help. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM RUTO, PRESIDENT OF KENYA: In our struggle, we always had friends. Not an overwhelming multi (INAUDIBLE) of powerful allies. Yet nevertheless,
two loyal and determined friends. The people of Haiti, our dear friends, today stand in need. It is our fundamental moral obligation to be their
friend indeed by standing with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: CNN Patrick Oppmann is live in Havana.
Patrick, can this multinational effort really bring about peace?
That is the question that so many have been asking.
But critically, how soon will they arrive and what exactly will be their role?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it is still looking like it will take several more months of course, this has dragged on for months.
Who will get the boots on the ground.
Of course, this had to go through a U.N. that is driven by deep divisions over the war in Ukraine, another geopolitical affair. So that was no small
feat. But Kenya is going to take the lead, 1,000 troops, 1,000 police officers on the ground. But police have been dogged by accusations that
they have a very heavy hand in their own country.
And it's really in the best of times, U.N. peacekeeping forces, have had controversial missions in Haiti over the years, missions that led to the
accidental reintroduction of cholera back in Haiti, that cost the lives of thousands of Haitians; of accusations that peacekeeping soldiers from the
U.N. fathered hundreds of children in Haiti with Haitian mothers and then abandoned those children.
So there is skepticism in Haiti when it comes to the U.N. sending a peacekeeping force and a security force in any --
(CROSSTALK)
OPPMANN: -- mentioned. But it's gotten to the point, as you point out, where the government of Haiti, the police force of Haiti simply is
outpowered, outnumbered, outgunned by these gangs.
And they don't have any other choice but to ask for help from the international community. So help apparently is on the way. But certainly,
for police officers, who won't speak the language, won't know their way around and will be facing extremely dangerous, emboldened gangs, it will be
no easy task to bring those gangs to --
(CROSSTALK)
SOARES: Yes. Strong challenges indeed. Patrick Oppmann, appreciate it, thank you very much.
Medecins sans Frontieres' head of mission in Haiti, Jean-Marc Biquet, joins us live from Port-au-Prince.
Thank you for joining us. I want to get a sense of whether you welcome this multinational security force. I know it's a long time coming in terms of
asking for help, wanting help for Haiti.
JEAN-MARC BIQUET, HEAD OF HAITI MISSION, MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES: I can tell you that the (INAUDIBLE) this is the insecurity which is going on here
for now some years.
So we can see in what project all the (INAUDIBLE) people who are coming because they were trapped in their fightings. So insecurity is a major
concern that has to stop (ph). It's not the only one. There are many things that should be done for Haiti.
It would be to (INAUDIBLE) the economic crisis, political crisis or the access to health crisis. And seeing that we see it on an everyday basis.
So it is not a choice to say if it's good or bad that those troops are coming here tomorrow because we (INAUDIBLE) see that (ph). What we
definitely can say is that insecurity is a massive concern that has to be solved in order for the Haitian people to live a normal life.
SOARES: Let's talk about the insecurity and the impact, what your teams have been seeing on the ground. Just give us a sense of the insecurity and
the challenges so many families are facing in Haiti.
[14:45:00]
BIQUET: You know, we work with many doctors and nurses and all the rest of the staff. It is up to 20 persons of them were forced to leave the house
and move in other places because in the quarter (INAUDIBLE) impossible to leave.
I am here in (INAUDIBLE) where we receive the sick and many wounded people. Just (INAUDIBLE) it's a school which is full of IVPs (ph) who were
displaced for three weeks ago because the quarter is totally impossible to survive in.
So they're fighting this on an everyday basis. They lost everything. And they are living in this school, which is definitely not done to accommodate
so many people. So the Haitians are suffering a lot of this situation (INAUDIBLE) in Port-au-Prince (ph).
SOARES: Yea, and I'm guessing, and I think our colleague Patrick Oppmann touched on this. Many of these gangs also have strongholds. These are
densely populated areas.
How exactly will they be able to reach these areas, to help these people?
That's a huge concern. Now you clearly want to focus on the people and the violence that you've seen in the day-to-day lives.
Besides having this multinational force, what else do you think the world should be focused on right now?
Because one of your colleagues told me, I think it was the beginning of this year, live on air, that the world had forgotten about Haiti.
BIQUET: (INAUDIBLE). For instance, (INAUDIBLE) we are a medical organization. But we keep quite alone. When we see the level of needs in
terms of medical services and the very limited amount of actors able to provide care and access even to affordable care, well, we see that Haiti
has been forgotten.
We have been discussing with some officials from donors (ph). They say, well, the help (ph) are diminishing in terms of humanitarian action for
Haiti.
Why?
There is no time when it's were as great as they are today. So it is definitely, we have to (INAUDIBLE) and provide some assistance. And when we
speak about the medical domain, a lot of the domains where there are also a lot of lax (INAUDIBLE).
Jean-Marc Biquet, really appreciate you speaking to us, thank you very much.
BIQUET: You're welcome.
SOARES: And we are keeping, as we have been, a close eye on the House, they have 20 seconds left of this vote, led by Mr. Matt Gaetz of Florida, trying
to oust House Speaker, Kevin McCarthy. We are taking a short break. As soon as the votes wrap up, we will bring you the results. So far, 11 nays.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:25]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
SOARES: We promised we would bring you those votes, breaking news we've been following all hour for you, the procedural vote has ended as we've
watched to see whether the U.S. House Speaker, Kevin McCarthy, will, of course, stay in that job.
This vote failed; it was an effort to stop the motion to remove McCarthy. That means now the actual vote on vacating the Speaker position will go
ahead. The vote was 208-2018 (sic) with 11 Republicans against the motion to table. The GOP no votes; one of them of course was Matt Gaetz.
Now we will look at paving the way for a vote on removing Kevin McCarthy as the Speaker. Remember, this was led initially by Matt Gaetz of Florida.
Let's listen in to some of the discussions on the House.
REP. BOB GOOD (R-VA): -- despite some of the concerns they had with those bills. And we remain united as a conference through the limits they grow
vote as we passed a bill that was cutting spending to pre-COVID levels for nondefense discretionary spending.
Or just over $100 billion. Historic spending cuts, as the Speaker had committed to do in January. And it also included a host of other
conservative fiscal reforms.
Unfortunately, however, that unity and that commitment to significant year one cuts and spending reforms were discarded, were discarded in the failed
responsibility act as I call it, which passed overwhelmingly, once again, with a majority of Democrat votes.
Validating the concern many of us had in January. Many of us had begged the Speaker, pleaded with the Speaker repeatedly, to utilize the debt ceiling,
to leverage spending cuts and reforms.
But instead, he negotiated an unlimited increase to the debt ceiling through January 2025, as much as we can come together and gleefully spend
for January 25, with no significant wins for the American people in that failed responsibility act.
But the Speaker then said that we would use appropriations. We would use appropriations to bring the fight and finally reduce our spending.
He said the levels of the FRA were the ceiling and not the floor and committed, recommitted multiple times to go back to the $1.471 trillion
that was the limits aid bro levels (ph), radically, historically, saving $100 billion and lowering the deficit this year under Republican majority
from $2.2 trillion to $2.1 trillion.
That's what we were asking the Republican House to do, to go to $2.1 trillion.
Meanwhile, the speaker had committed to bring a balanced budget vote to this floor. Something that still has not happened despite the work that's
been done in our budget committee. To mark it up and have it ready to come to the floor.
He also promised that we would bring all 12 appropriation bills well before the September 30 fiscal deadline. We did not. We simply, as Republicans,
needed the Speaker to cast a vision, request the support of the entire conference, all of whom voted for the limits aid bro levels (ph) except for
four, who wanted to go even further, to lead us in joining him, sticking with him, supporting him and sending the most conservative spending bills
with the most conservative cuts possible to the Senate as the best starting position for negotiations with the Senate.
Many of us begged and pleaded with the Speaker to do that over the past five months. When the Speaker failed us to pass our spending bills,
bringing only one of 12 to the floor before the August district work period, members began to negotiate amongst themselves without the Speaker
to find compromise.
I was among those who reluctantly agreed last month, to split the difference between failed responsibilities, 1.586, and the limits aid bro
(ph) 1.471. I reluctantly agreed to do that, to go to 1.526 in order to pass our bills on to the Senate.
We then essentially forced the Speaker, with the pressure of the calendar, the debt ceiling -- or, excuse me -- the shutdown threat of the calendar,
to bring those four bills to the floor last week, all of which I voted for, despite some of them not cutting the levels had agreed to and other
concerns I had with the bill.
[14:55:00]
GOOD: I reluctantly voted for the 30 day conditional CR, continued resolution, because it cut an additional $10 billion in the month of
October, going back to the pre-COVID 1.471 levels for defense, nondefense discretionary 30 percent and it had border security. I voted for that.
However, when that vote failed, the Speaker, this past Friday, in the Republican conference meeting, made it abundantly clear that he was willing
to do anything to avoid the temporary discomfort and the pressure of a pause and the 15 percent of the nonessential federal government operations,
which would guarantee that we would lose to the Senate Democrats and the White House.
If you're not willing to say no, then you're guaranteed to lose. And that was confirmed with the passage of the unconditional 45-day CR this past
Saturday. Once again, with 209 Democrat votes, the Republican bill, 209-1, Democrats 51-0 in the Senate side.
The Speaker fought through 15 votes in January to become speaker but was only willing to fight through one failed CR before surrendering to the
Democrats on Saturday. We need a Speaker who will fight for something, anything, besides just staying or becoming speaker.
If there was ever a time to fight with $33 trillion in national debt, a $2 trillion deficit this year, 40-year high inflation. 20-year high interest
rates, a downgraded credit rating and, for the first time in modern history, the polls showing, despite all the help of the media blaming
Republicans in the House, the polls showed that the public was blaming Biden and the Democrats for an imminent shutdown.
If not fight now, when would we fight?
Now is and was the time. With the Democrats driving the fiscal bus off the cliff at 100 miles an hour, we cannot simply be content to be the party
that slows it down to 95 just so we can sit in the front seat and wear the captain's hat.
Our current debt and our spending trajectory is unsustainable. We need a speaker, ideally someone who does not want to be speaker and hasn't pursued
that at all costs for his entire adult life, who will make the moment and do everything possible to fight for the country.
A red line was crossed for me I regret on Saturday. And so it's regret that I must vote against the motion to table as I did and to vote to vacate the
chair.
And I yield back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
Gentleman from Florida reserves his time.
Gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole.
REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I share one thing in common with my friend from Virginia. This is a very sad day. Certainly,
a day I never expected to have to live through.
I think broadly speaking, as I look across this floor, you can divide members into three groups. I'm very happy to be in the first group. The
overwhelming majority of my party supports the Speaker that we elected.
We are proud of the leadership he has shown, we are proud of the manner in which he has been willing to work with everybody in our conference and I
believe in this chamber.
There is a second group, a small group. Honestly, they're willing to plunge this body into chaos and this country into uncertainty for reasons that
only they really understand. I certainly don't.
And then there friends on the other side, I mean friends honestly with great sincerity. I have a lot of friends over there. And I recognize that
my friends on the other side have a very complex set of partisan, personal and political calculations to make.
I certainly wouldn't presume to give them any advice about that. But I would say, think long and hard before you plunge us into chaos because
that's where we are headed if we vacate the Speakership.
I personally think there is really three reasons why we have come to this point. That's because at each three of these critical minutes, the Speaker
did the right thing. First, it was the speaker vote. He got 85 percent of the vote in our conference, 90 percent of the vote from Republicans on this
floor.
Yet we had a small group that decided, no, they would dictate what they want. He didn't let that happen. He fought. He fought for himself but he
fought for 90 percent of us, too, that wanted him to be the Speaker. And I appreciate that.
Then of course, we had the debt ceiling deal. Nobody here thought he could pass a bill, nobody in America thought he could pass a bill. He did what
speakers are supposed to do: he passed the bill.
Then he sat down and negotiated with a Democratic Senate and a Democratic president and came back with a good deal, a deal that will limit spending.
He did the right thing.
Finally last Saturday, on this floor, we were on the verge of a government shutdown, a government shutdown that the vast majority of members in this
chamber did not want, a substantial majority on my side.
END
