Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Israel Says Its Own Troops Mistakenly Killed 3 Israeli Hostages In Gaza; Zelenskyy: Accession Talks A "Victory For All Of Europe"; U.K. Court Rules Prince Harry Was A Victim Of Phone Hacking; Prince Harry Wins Phone Hacking Case Against Tabloids; IDF: Troops Mistakenly Killed Three Israeli Hostages In Gaza; Survival Is An Everyday Struggle For Parents In Gaza. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 15, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, HOST: Hello, and welcome, I'm Julia Chatterley in for Isa Soares. Tonight, we're tracking breaking news out of the Middle East.
Israel says its own troops killed three Israeli hostages they mistook for a threat in Gaza. Their bodies were taken back to Israel and later
identified. Israel said earlier it believed 112 living hostages remained in Gaza after the October 7th Hamas attack.
International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us live now from London. Tragic situation that the Israelis and their families of course,
are facing at this moment. What more do we know about what may have happened here?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, it's something the families have been afraid about, and it's --
CHATTERLEY: Right --
ROBERTSON: Something the hostages will have been afraid about themselves that at the moment of possible release, there could be tragedy. And that's
how Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, the chief spokesman for the IDF is describing the situation. Yotam Haim was from Kfar Azar, one of the
Kibbutzes very close to the border with Gaza.
He was abducted October 7th, as was Samer Talalka. He was from Nir Am, another Kibbutz that was also near the border. Now, there was a third
person also killed. The family are requesting his name or their name, not be broadcast. But the way that the IDF is describing this is that their
troops face combat scenarios like this every day.
That there were in an environment where they thought these three individuals prevented a threat, after the battle subsided, they were able
to analyze the situation and realize that they needed to check and get better identification. And that process was carried out after the bodies
were taken back to Israel and confirmations were made.
And families were called and told about what had happened. Now, the IDF is saying that they are putting a very clear message out to all IDF forces in
conflict, in Gaza about instructions and guidance about the possibility of hostages, and how to handle those situations. Because they say they don't
want this to happen again.
So the IDF describing it as tragic. And obviously, a terrible ending after all these weeks and months of worry and wait for the families.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's awful. And this is, unfortunately, I guess the price of operating in this kind of environment. And with urban warfare, the way
it is. I mean, some could argue at this stage it's surprising in the sense that we haven't seen a tragedy like this already. I think it plays into --
to some degree, what we've heard today from the National Security adviser from the United States, Jake Sullivan.
He's been in the West Bank, he's been in Tel Aviv, talking to them, and the emphasis continues to be on protecting civilians and protecting civilians
in Gaza. But you could weave in the challenges we've discussed, trying to carry out their operations to target Hamas in the face of still more than a
100 hostages that are there.
Nic, what's your takeaway from, again, the conversations that have been had, and the faces that the Israelis are talking about, and the pressure,
the ongoing pressure from the United States to -- in some way adjust the operation that we're seeing.
ROBERTSON: Yes, the pressure is being dialed up by the White House. There's no doubt about it. Although, this mission by Jake Sullivan to meet
with many members, politicians and security infrastructure in Israel is to sort of keep those relationships smooth. But President Biden just earlier
this week described the bombings as indiscriminate, too many civilian casualties.
And that kind of public pressure is adding up to what we can't see behind the scenes, but what Jake Sullivan described as he expects this transition
from the high intensity face of the conflict right now to a scenario where there is more precise military operations, the IDF going in on
intelligence-led missions to capture or kill specific Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad leaders.
Now, I have to say, I mean, this transition, we don't know what it looks like. The IDF is saying it's got many more months of actual real fighting
it believes ahead of it. And speaking to Israeli ministers, just a couple of weeks after those horrendous October 7th attacks, they were already
describing a scenario like this where they would have in the West Bank, overall security control.
[14:05:00]
And that -- in Gaza rather. And like the West Bank where they can go in and do operations as we have seen in Jenin this week and in previous weeks and
other areas in the West Bank, when they have someone they want to arrest or terrorist as they describe them, they want to go after, they go in and a
large military convoy and have a more precise military operation on the ground.
So this idea about how operations might look in the future, it's an idea that the Israelis have had for some time. But they want to get to this
stable security situation. And they're clearly a long way from that at the moment.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, Nic Robertson for now, thank you so much for your perspective. Let's bring in Jeremy Diamond now, he's live in southern
Israel for us. Jeremy, and as you've now long been reporting, and as Nic and I were discussing, the fact that something like this hasn't already
happened before, I think is perhaps the greatest surprise.
Your perspective at this moment on hearing that the three hostages have been killed by accident by the IDF.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, it is absolutely devastating news. And you know, the first thing that I thought of was the
fact that last week, one of the released hostages angrily confronted the Israeli prime minister, saying you have no information, you have no
Intelligence, talking about the fact that the location where she was being held by Hamas was actually shelled by the Israeli military.
Now, today's incident appears to be much more direct, much more within the line of sight of Israeli forces, and what it speaks to is, of course, the
danger that this Israeli military operations -- that Israeli military operations can and in this case did indeed present to civilian hostages
being held in Gaza. You know, and it also comes as the Israeli military as it launched this war in response to Hamas' terrorist attack on October 7th,
it actually loosen the rules of engagement for Israeli soldiers.
Allowing them to shoot with while conducting fewer checks that they normally would to distinguish between a threat and perhaps something else.
And I have -- I talked to a number of Israeli officers and officials in the lead up to that ground incursion, who made very clear that especially as it
related to northern Gaza, which was the focus of that ground offensive for the first several weeks, that they were effectively going to view anything
that moved as a potential target in northern Gaza, because that had had civilians to evacuate south.
And we know that as a result, a number of civilians have died, many of them in bombing campaigns by the Israeli military. But some perhaps in similar
incidents to what we saw, what we are now seeing today. And so, it's clear that especially as we have the National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan
here talking about what he sees as a disconnect between the Israeli military's intention to reduce civilian casualties to distinguish between
military and civilian targets, and the reality on the ground.
I think it's clear that, that mismatch, that has now applied not only to thousands of Palestinian civilians who have been killed, but also now to
three Israeli civilians who were being held hostage in Gaza.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a vital point I think to be making. And he did insist, Sullivan, that it is still Israel's intent to keep civilians safe.
But it does come after fresh reporting that, you know, we've all seen that nearly half of those air-to-ground missiles, to your point that are being
used by Israel in Gaza are imprecise, what we call dumb bombs.
To your point about Sullivan's message that they do want to see that gap close, and it's not a new message, we've heard it now for many days. Do you
get the sense that there is a look that's going to be consequences or implications if we don't see that from the United States.
For the most part, they have been and continue to be a supportive ally in this operation to target Hamas. What are the consequences if they don't see
what they're asking for? I think is my question.
DIAMOND: As of now, none. I think the answer is none. I've asked a number of U.S. officials over the last several weeks, what, you know, what more
they are prepared to do beyond ramping up, you know, initially, it was like private pressure that we were hearing. U.S. officials talking privately to
Israeli officials, telling them that they needed to do more to minimize civilian casualties.
Then that pressure went public. And we've seen that public pressure play out in a much more significant way, particularly over the last week or two
weeks. And now we're moving to the phase where it's OK, we're not only publicly pressuring, but we're also engaged in these very intense
conversations, intense debates with Israeli officials.
But up until now, officials who I've talked to have not indicated that they have any intention of tying what Israel does on the ground to anything
actually substantive. And what I mean by that is U.S. military aid, U.S. weapons sales to Israel, that kind of thing.
[14:10:00]
As of now, it appears that the pressure is merely going to be on the diplomatic and the rhetorical side. But we'll have to see if -- and whether
that potentially changes, if that mismatch continues to grow over the coming weeks.
CHATTERLEY: Jeremy Diamond, great to get your perspective. Thank you for that. And let's get some military analysis on what we're seeing now. We're
joined by retired U.S. Army General, Wesley Clark. General Clark, good to have you with us. A tragedy, the three hostages have been killed by the
IDF, but by their own people.
As we've been saying for the last 10 minutes on the show, and I'm sure you heard, and perhaps, the greatest surprise here is that we haven't seen
something like this already, given the challenges of operating in this kind of environment. This is what urban warfare looks like. What are your
thoughts at this moment?
WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, we don't know the circumstances really, Julia, of what -- my surprise from just a little bit that I've seen
is that the Israeli operation is putting pressure on Hamas forces, forcing them to move, sometimes their movement is seen. When it's seen and they're
identified as hostile, they're engaged, or perhaps there was five or six, eight, ten people moving with these hostages.
And they were all engaged, and the hostages were caught in the middle of it. As far as we know, it was like a mistake, an attempt for hostages to be
released. It was an active combat situation. And more and more of this is at risk, when you put the forces on, when you try to operate with infantry
forward, when you're in close combat as the Israelis are right now.
So it's terrible tragic. It's regrettable. It's -- you're going to do everything you can to prevent it. But soldiers are going to shoot in their
self defense. And that's just what happens.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, we -- to your point, it's a very valid one, we don't have all the details, speculating about this is what we're forced to do at
this stage, about what may have happened. What the Israelis have long said though is Hamas have been using civilians as human shield -- I guess at
this stage, we can't rule out the possibility that they were in some way put in danger deliberately to have forced this kind of conversation.
General Clark, is there -- is there -- do you think anything more, and that will be reflection I'm sure from the IDF at this moment, and going forward
of ways that they can better avoid these circumstances as difficult as they are. Because they're certainly going to come under pressure now, again from
the families of the hostages who have long said this was one of the risks.
CLARK: When you -- when you actually have Intelligence, and you can identify the hostages, and they're held in a location. And you can target
your special forces on them, men who are trained with special training, special equipment, and practice again and again and again, moving into a
room, identifying quickly the threat, eliminating the threat, and not shooting a hostage, that's the basics special forces hostage rescue drill.
And it's done over and over and over. But when you're in combat like this, and there's a meeting engagement and ordinary infantry soldiers are armed
and pursuing Hamas, have been shooting back, and they're returning fire and they're trying to protect themselves, save their own lives, it's much
different circumstance, Julia.
So, we just have to wait and see really what happened here. I know the Israelis feel terrible about it. But this is -- this is war and there's
nothing we can do really within a (INAUDIBLE) like this.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, retired U.S. Army General, Wesley Clark. Sir, thank you for your time, good to have you. Now, there are mixed messages from the
European Union regarding Russia's war on Ukraine. On Thursday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed EU leaders. The group agreed to
start talks on admitting Ukraine to the EU.
Zelenskyy called the decision, quote, "a victory for all of Europe". But later, Hungary's Viktor Orban blocked a new EU aid package for Ukraine. All
of this comes as U.S. aid package for Ukraine is stalled in Congress. And one U.S. official says Ukraine is quote, "certain to fail without U.S.
aid." Bianca Nobilo is live in Brussels for us.
So Bianca, it's not the first time certainly that we've seen Viktor Orban use his obstinacy, his objection in Europe to project a strong image at
home and extract concessions. Let's call it that. He clearly left the room, I believe, won a vote, when the decision was taken on Ukraine's further
progress towards the EU. What does he want? And what did he get as a result of what took place today?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT & ANCHOR: Julia, you're absolutely right. Viktor Orban did leave the room in order for the vote on Ukraine proceeding
to the next stage of becoming an official member of the EU to take place.
[14:15:00]
Apparently, this was the brain child of German Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, who suggested that Orban might go outside and grab a coffee at a key moment, so
the rest of the members could vote and get this through. It's very tense before the summit. People had low expectations. They were pessimistic, and
it was a surprise to many leaders that Orban didn't decide to veto this.
In terms of what he may have gotten in exchange, Julia, I'm sure you've been keeping an eye on this. So the night before that occurred, it was
announced that 10 billion, 10 billion euros had been unfrozen, that was supposed to go to Hungary. And that was criticized by many, by the Belgian
Prime Minister, who said that Hungary can't treat the EU like a Hungarian bizarre.
Critics within the European parliament also said that Hungary cannot bribe the EU in this way. Of course, the European Union has said that these are
completely different things and these funds were unfrozen because that was going to happen anyway. But obviously, some people have raised an eyebrow
at this.
In terms of the $55 billion of aid to Ukraine, which Viktor Orban blocked going through, that is going to be discussed in extraordinary session of
the EU in January. Leaders say they're optimistic that they'll be able to get it through then. But who knows, Viktor Orban keeps citing the fact that
he has to appease his domestic audience back home, and he has elections to think about.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I spent many years in Brussels and watching this kind of thing play out. Bianca, we should wait until January and see what comes of
it for now. Life in Brussels there. Thank you. Now, Tymofiy Mylovanov is President of the Kyiv School of Economics and former Ukrainian Minister of
Economic Development and Trade, and he joins us now from Kyiv.
Sir, good to have you with us. I think both the United States and Europe, their Intelligence certainly recognizes the importance of ongoing financial
support for Ukraine and progress in this war. And what happens, I think, if they fail to provide it. Can I ask whether you personally, and whether you
think --
TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV, PRESIDENT, KYIV SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Yes --
CHATTERLEY: The Ukrainian government believe ultimately, whether it's the EU or the United States, decisions will be made and that will be positive
for Ukraine? I mean, providing aid.
MYLOVANOV: My personal view is that it will happen. The critical decision was the opening of the formal accession talks with the EU, and that
happened yesterday. This is great news. Viktor Orban was demanding something in exchange, and probably as we have just heard got something,
although, it's not clear how directly it is related.
But I'm being cynical here maybe. And I think something like that will happen with the EU aid down the road. In the conversations with the EU
officials including members of the governments, there is some optimism. I even met with several of them during this week while they were visiting
Kyiv or other things online.
And they seem to be optimistic that eventually it will get through. But delay could be costly. The U.S. situation is a little bit more complicated
because there is this domestic politics between Republicans and Democrats. And -- but even there, I hear positive signals that eventually things work
out. What worries me is the delay.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and how long that delay continues. We've already seen President Putin in Russia weaponizing the delay, and hinting at reduce
support or willingness to support from the West. And I think that clearly has a hit on morale. But it's sort of in the short term, it comes down to
the ability to finance a war-time economy in Ukraine, and the ability to continue to finance munition productions.
Can you put that into perspective? Both of those two things, the economic costs potentially of a delay, but also the risk that support doesn't come,
and of course, what it means for defense too.
MYLOVANOV: So, you know, Russia puts in their budget, and defense budget just officially, directly, slightly over $100 billion. And there are all
kinds of indirect subsidies and financing, and Ukraine is a smaller country. And of course, we're using asymmetric warfare. But the amount of
funds had to be similar.
So, in that sense, of course, it's critical to get this money in time from every source. Because otherwise, we're going to run out of weapons and
ammunition, and you cannot fight with sticks.
CHATTERLEY: What do you prioritize in terms of spending if you're the government at this moment? I'm sure there are economic measures that you
can take. You can cut social expenditure, pensions for example, or you can restrict the amount of money that you push towards defense. What do you do
in this situation and what do you prioritize? What do you assume they would prioritize?
MYLOVANOV: We cannot reduce military spending.
CHATTERLEY: Right --
MYLOVANOV: Why? It's a question of existence. You know, we won't exist.
[14:20:00]
So, you know, you will use standard fiscal and monetary instruments to prioritize the expenditures. Postpone all capability development, such as
Capex or capital investments. But that's fine during the war. You will also might have to devalue the currency and increase inflation.
And as you rightly pointed out, you might have to cut down on pensions and social support. That means poverty and hardship. So that's -- these are the
trade-offs, weapons or hardship?
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I didn't even want to mention the D word, the devaluation word, because I mean, that comes with extreme consequences for the economy
too. You know, one of the things that I worry about in that situation is that, if people are making a decision whether they stay in Ukraine or they
leave, perhaps, though, those kinds of cuts and that kind of economic challenges sort of pushes them over the edge. And that's a further economic
brain-drain to Ukraine. Do you worry about that risk too?
MYLOVANOV: Absolutely.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
MYLOVANOV: There is always a migration wave. (INAUDIBLE) wave, when there is hardship. Whether it's in the financial crisis or economic crisis.
Coupled with war, you know, you have a perfect storm people saved. So, I hope it doesn't get to that, but we have seen that in the beginning of the
war in the Spring of 2022, and we also have seen what delays in financing even though commitments were there.
A lot of commitments of financing, whether there were delays. And in July of 2022, Ukraine had to devalue the currency. And that made, you know, all
kinds of negative effects on the economy. The economy lost additional, you know, probably double digits because of that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it makes imports more expensive, if your debts in foreign currencies, they accelerate, it has profound implications. Sir, thank you
so much for your time, I hope these costs are being made very clear. Thank you.
OK, Germany, formally arrested three suspected members of Hamas on Friday after they appeared before a federal judge. They and a fourth suspect were
accused Thursday of making preparations to attack Jewish institutions in Europe. It happened on the same day Dutch and Danish authorities arrested
four other people in a separate terror investigation. Fred Pleitgen has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): A lot of new developments after those anti-terror raids that took place here
in central Europe. The Danish authorities now announcing that on top of the four people who had been placed under arrest on Thursday, that there are
four other suspects who have also been placed under arrest in absentia.
That means that these suspects are still very much at large. And that means that there could be further raids going on, not just in Denmark, but
possibly also other European countries as well. The Danes themselves are saying it's still very much ongoing investigation.
They so far have not mentioned the name Hamas when talking about these raids. However, Israeli Intelligence, namely the Shin Bet and the Mossad
have said that this was a foiled plot by Hamas, thanks to these anti-terror raids that happened. Now, the Danish Prime Minister did come out and talk
about the war that's going on in Gaza, saying it was absolutely unacceptable for anyone to bring that conflict to Denmark.
So clearly, implying that what is going on in Gaza also has something to do with those anti-terror raids that took place in Denmark. Meanwhile, in
Germany, the four suspects there have now formally been placed under arrest by the country's federal prosecutor. Of course, three people were arrested
in Germany and one in the Netherlands.
And all of them have now formally been placed under arrest. The German authorities have been a lot more open about talking to links with Hamas.
They say at least, some of the suspects had very long ties to Hamas, and in fact, also apparently had very good contacts. The Germans say to the armed
wing of Hamas, the Qassam Brigades.
The Germans are saying that apparently, Hamas have been stockpiling weapons here in this country, talking about a weapons depot that apparently, some
of these suspects were trying to find. They say that they were tasked with bringing those weapons to Berlin for possible attacks on Jewish
institutions in Europe.
Clearly, this is still a situation where the Germans are saying that they are very concerned about all this. At the same time, they are praising
their law enforcement authorities for coming to terms with this threat. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: OK, we're going to take a quick break, but still to come tonight, a legal victory for Prince Harry against the British tabloid press
over phone hacking. We'll hear from his lawyer and the newspaper at the center of the scandal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. The publisher of the British tabloid, the "Daily Mirror" has apologized to Prince Harry for using unlawful methods to gather
information about his private life. The U.K. high court today ruled that he was a victim of, quote, "extensive phone hacking by journalists working for
the "Mirror Group" newspapers. Prince Harry was awarded nearly $180,000 in damages. Here is what his lawyer had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SHERBORNE, PRINCE HARRY'S LAWYER: Today's ruling is vindicating and affirming. I've been told that slaying dragons will get you burned. But in
light of today's victory and the importance of what is doing what is needed for a free and honest press, it is a worthwhile price to pay. The mission
continues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Richard Quest joins us now. Richard, it requires a little bit more context than that. The judge ruled in Harry's favor in 15 of 33
instances where he said --
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Right --
CHATTERLEY: Articles were produced based on information that was unethically or illegally garnered. But bottom line, this is vindication,
isn't it --
QUEST: Yes --
CHATTERLEY: For Harry?
QUEST: Yes, because the 33 articles, the so-called sample articles, each side were asked to submit half. So it's not exactly -- it's exactly the
point. I'm guessing that the 15 that were found came from Harry's side, and then the "Mirror Group" newspapers, they put in their side.
So it is, it's total vindication. But here's where it gets tricky, Julia. I don't think any of us ever thought for a single second that there wasn't
phone hacking going on because we'd seen it all with the news of the world, and this on -- and all of that during the Murdoch days. So, we all knew
they were all at it.
But this is the first time as you say, does the seal of acceptance and approval from the "Mirror" side.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and the "Mirror" is pretty unequivocal actually, and it's -- apology for --
QUEST: Yes --
CHATTERLEY: This, even if it was known to your point, as you said. I mean, Harry also blamed a toxic cultural media for his decision to move
countries. So how much sympathy does this vindication -- qualified vindication by him, Richard, does it matter?
QUEST: Are you a pro or an anti-Sussex? I mean, that's the long and short of it in this case --
CHATTERLEY: Yes --
QUEST: You know, because Harry has litigation up the wazoo(ph) still underway. You've got all business in the court of trying to -- over his
security.
[14:30:00]
You've got other cases that are still going. Harry is litigious and today's result is very much proof of acceptance of his point of view. But I don't
think we're finished yet. Interestingly, Piers Morgan gave a very colorful response. Go ahead.
CHATTERLEY: No, I was saying uh-oh. Because we all know how he feels about the situation. What did he have to say?
QUEST: Well, Piers Morgan was the editor, and one of the articles that was under his time, he says he knew nothing about it. He said he never knew
about phone hacking, and then he went on to be rude about Prince Harry, saying he wouldn't know the truth if it got up and slapped his California
tan.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. What a comment.
QUEST: Sorry.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, Harry's lawyer called it Vendetta journalism, didn't he? Uh-hmm. Richard, very quickly, does it change media in any way?
QUEST: No, not at all. Not in the signals. This was all going back years. Levinson in Britain dealt with it. Although what was interesting about the
Harry claim is many of the claims were during the Levinson. So clearly, Mirror had not learnt the lesson from the news of the world. I think that
shows you nothing changed. The reality is there won't be phone hacking, but there'll be something else. There'll be some other form of cyber
interference that will be involved, because that's what sells papers, or in today's world, gets eyeballs to sites.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and to your point as well. For those who dislike Harry, they will continue to do so. Richard Quest in New York. Thank you.
All right. Still to come tonight, U.S. regulators warn that artificial intelligence could pose a risk to the global financial system. Why might
that be? We'll discuss next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:35:31]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back with a recap of the breaking news we're following this hour. Israel says its own troops killed three Israeli hostages they
mistook for a threat in Gaza. Their bodies were taken back to Israel and later identified. Two of them have been named as Yotam Haim and Samer
Talalka. Writing on ex, Israeli war cabinet member Benny Gantz said to the families of the hostages, "All the people of Israel are crying along with
you." News of the hostages' deaths come as Israel is under pressure to reduce civilian casualties.
U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan has been in the region this week. He was in the West Bank earlier today, too, meeting with Palestinian
Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
And U.S. regulators are also warning for the first time that the use of artificial intelligence poses a risk to the financial system. Sophisticated
AI models have exploded in popularity in recent years, but authorities say they come with risks for financial firms, especially relating to
cybersecurity and privacy issues.
Matt Egan joins us now on this story. Matt, this is a fascinating one because we've had warnings left, right and center on the AI risk. But
actually what jumped out at me from this report was it wasn't actually about the cybersecurity and the privacy risks. It was that financial market
participants could start adopting AI tools themselves. And actually at some point something could happen and they actually don't know what's taking
place. Fascinating.
MATT EGAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, it is fascinating. I mean, there's no question that AI is this breakthrough technology. If you play around with
some of these tools, it's almost mesmerizing what they can do. Writing stories and seemingly creating images out of thin air. So, there's the
potential for so much good, but clearly there are risks there as well. And I do think that regulators here in the United States do sound increasingly
nervous about some of the risks in the real world, including the financial markets that are really at the heart of the world economy. And so they have
laid out a series of risks.
Now one thing that they flagged is bias, where AI tools have a tendency to make bias decisions at times. And when you think about it, play that out in
banking, that's obviously a problem, right? I mean, imagine getting denied a request for a mortgage or a car loan because essentially a robot is
making a decision based on the color of your skin or gender.
Cyber is another issue. There's -- some people have raised the risk that maybe some of these AI tools could actually get trapped -- tricked by
hackers, sort of letting the bad guys into the bank. That's obviously an issue.
Another one is this hallucination issue that some AI bots have, where they have a tendency to sort of make stuff up kind of like a toddler, but just
way more believable. And so one recent example here in New York is there was a lawyer who filed the legal brief and that brief relied on six cases
that turned out to be bogus. And the source of those bogus cases was an AI chatbot. So clearly, if you play that out into financial markets, there's
some issues there. So, I think that the message from regulators is that they're on the case, they're looking at this, that they want banks to make
sure they test out these models and don't introduce a lot of risk into the system.
But Julia, as you know, this is a delicate balance, right? Because if they don't regulate this enough, then you could have a situation where they are
introducing dangerous elements into the financial system, but if they do too much, they could stifle innovation in this AI arms race and really let
other countries, including potentially China, leapfrog ahead of the United States.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's fascinating, isn't it? I would say that regulators, with my healthy skepticism, are always late to these kind of parties so
clearly, that kind of risk that you're talking about in certain circumstances are already happening in the financial sector and they're
having to talk about it. Let's hope they get it right with AI because the implications for good and bad in this sector and beyond could be profound.
Matt, good to have you. Thank you. Matt Egan there.
All right. Back now to our top story this hour. Israel says its own troops killed three Israeli hostages they mistook for a threat in Gaza.
International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins us once again from London.
Nic, as you and I were discussing earlier on the show, devastating, clearly for whoever was responsible for this.
[14:40:05]
For the hostage families. And of course, many of them have said, since the invasion in Gaza began, that this was the risk of one -- one of the things
they feared.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and the IDF says it's got an investigation on going. And Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, who was
holding a press conference, releasing this information, was asked questions about precisely how this happened if the three people, the three men, were
actually freed. Were they on the loose escaping? You know, what was the precise scenario? And he painted a picture, Hagari painted a picture
whereby he said that was possible, that the -- that the fighting in and around the area, they were in the Shijaiyah area, that this area itself, a
lot of intense fighting that maybe the three men had escaped from whoever was holding them, or maybe they'd been released by the people that were
holding them.
But we don't know if this happened in daylight. We don't know if it happened at nighttime. We don't know if they put their hands up in the air
and shouted to the soldiers in Hebrew. We just don't have any information, but what we do know is that the soldiers have been told, the IDF troops
operating in Gaza have been told that civilians have been told to leave the area, and therefore anyone you come across could be associated with
terrorists. So, from a soldier's perspective, an unexpected three men appearing, and you can't see where they're hands are, you can't see if
they've got weapons. As Hagari said in his first statements, they appeared, or potentially appeared to be a threat.
So, this is exactly why the families have been worrying. More than a hundred hostages still held, and these were two of them, at least, were
young men who were on Kibbutz's near Gaza. They would have been familiar with the potential dangers, and probably themselves, quite -- one would
expect, quite ready to take an opportunity if the chance of escape came about. But this just shows all those dangers, and tragically there may be
more of this to come, although the IDF says that they're working to avoid it.
CHATTERLEY: So much loss and tragedy in this conflict since October the 7th. Our thoughts and prayers are certainly with their families at this
moment. Nic, it does play into the bigger conversation about Israeli intent, and we saw the National Security Advisor for the United States
reiterate that Israel's intent is to protect civilians in this conflict, as they continue to try and target Hamas.
What do you make of what we saw in the ongoing pressure, I think, that the United States is applying to further close that gap, going after Hamas, but
also putting more emphasis on the protection of civilian life in Gaza and beyond, of course, and what the consequences are if they don't see a
narrowing of that gap?
ROBERTSON: Yes, there's huge pressure on the United States from its allies in the region, its Arab allies and partners there who are saying that this
has to stop, this cannot continue. And we've heard countries like Canada come out and get even stronger in their criticism of the high civilian
death toll in Gaza. There is a very strong narrative out there among, as I say, United States' allies that this can't continue. President Biden
himself earlier this week said that there was indiscriminate bombing. He has spoken about the high civilian death toll.
So, I think what we've seen here is an effort for Jake Sullivan to walk that very narrow line, if you will, of keeping the message strong with
Israel, that we support you to go after Hamas, but trying to bring a more diplomatic message behind the scenes that says, you really must reduce the
death toll. And it's been spoken about that there's a possibility that there are indications that the White House really wants this, the heavy
phase, the intense phase of the operation to wrap up by the end of the year perhaps, end of this year, perhaps a couple of weeks into next year. I've
heard that from diplomats here in the U.K. as well.
But there's no guarantees that Israel is actually going to do that. And that -- that's what makes his diplomatic tightrope so precarious that the
military is saying -- that they're saying in Israel that they need more time. And indeed, this was something I came across from military officers.
They're saying to me at the time, we're telling our politicians we need more time to do this. So, it's not even clear that this shift to more
focused and targeted and therefore less collateral damage, less civilian casualties, it's not even clear that that is going to happen in the
timeframe the United States wants. And we didn't get a sense of that.
It's just Jake Sullivan trying to say that this is a process that's going to happen. But there are so many parameters about it. We don't know who's
controlling Gaza when the IDF says, OK, we pull back a bit.
[14:45:04]
And we just go in when we want to and target these people just when we want to. That's not a picture they're painting at the moment.
CHATTERLEY: No. Know what the consequences are if -- to your point, if that doesn't happen in any given timeframe. Nic Robertson, thank you from London
there. OK.
Still to come. A daily struggle to keep their children warm, fed and protected, how the war in Gaza is turned parenthood into a desperate fight
for survival. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. And once again a recap of the breaking news we're following this hour. Israel says its own troops killed three Israeli
hostages they mistook for a threat in Gaza. The bodies were taken back to Israel and later identified. And two of them have now been named as Yotam
Haim and Samer Talalka. A third is not being named at the request of his family.
Earlier, CNN learned from the IDF that the body of another hostage in Gaza has been recovered and also brought back to Israel. They say 28-year-old
Elia Toledano was -- seen here, was taken by Hamas on October 7th.
And Israel now says it will allow humanitarian aid to cross into Gaza directly from Israeli territory. The officials had previously refused to
let trucks through, instead sending them back to Rafah after inspections. But congestion at the Rafah Crossing has slowed down aid deliveries. The
hope is that opening up a second aid route will meaningfully improve the humanitarian situation inside Gaza.
But for the time being the U.N. is warning of a dire crisis where officials say roughly half the population is now starving. With little aid, dwindling
supplies and a lack of shelter, parents in Gaza are also struggling to bring basic needs for their children. Jomana Karadsheh has more in this
report, which we must warn you, does contain graphic images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the desperate cries of a father left with nothing but his voice, a father who can no
longer protect his three vulnerable children. "I can't survive. They destroyed my house," Abu Hamat says, "I can't get food. I have no one to
support me. I spend the night moving from tent to tent."
[14:50:02]
For more than 60 days, he's tried to stay strong until he could no more. His disabled children, homeless, hungry, hurting from Gaza's war. What do
you do when your child needs you but you've got nothing left to give? "Have mercy on us," Abu Hamat says.
No mercy for the people of this besieged land it seems. Bring the blessing, they used to say. Now it only brings more despair. For those forced out of
their homes, life has become this miserable existence as rains flood their makeshift camps. It's a harsh winter that's only just beginning.
O'Malley shows us the tiny tent she lives in with eleven others, her two daughters and grandchildren. She spent the night trying to catch the rain
that dripped through the roof of their flimsy shelter. "This is humiliation," O'Malley says. "I have these children without a father. I
can't take it anymore. Even children now hate life," she says.
It's just too much for parents to bear when you can't even keep your children dry, warm, and clean as diseases start to spread and the aid they
so badly need now a weapon in this war. "I want to protect my children," this mother says. "The bombings and destruction are not enough. On top of
that, now we have the rain, cold, and illnesses."
To be apparent in Gaza is a blessing turned into torture for those who no longer wonder if but how they and their children will die. Abu Hamat says
he was sitting thinking of how he'll feed his children when an airstrike hit. "Where do I take my children?" He says, "I fled and came here to die.
I gave my children my everything. Who will take care of them if I die?"
Like many in Gaza, it's not only Israel they blame. They want Hamas to stop a war for which they pay the price, abandoned, alone as the world won't
stop their pain. 6-year-old Lana was under the rubble of her home for three days. "Mommy and Daddy are underneath it," she says. "I just want mama. I
want Baba. I want my family," Lana cries. To be a parent in Gaza is to live in the fear of this, that you no longer are there when they need you the
most. Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:04]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back with a reminder once again of the breaking news we're following this hour. Israel says its own troops killed three Israeli
hostages they mistook for a threat in Gaza. The bodies were taken back to Israel and later identified. Two of them have now been named as Yotam Haim
and Samer Talalka. A third is not being named at the request of his family.
Earlier, CNN learned from the IDF that the body of another hostage in Gaza has also been recovered and brought back home to Israel. They say 28-year-
old Elia Toledano, you can see him smiling here, was taken by Hamas on October 7th. Our thoughts and prayers with their families tonight.
Thank you for watching. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
