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Isa Soares Tonight
One Person Killed And Several Others Injured In A Turbulence Incident Amid Flight; Trump Defense Team Rest Its Case In Trump Hush Money Trial; German Foreign Minister Visits Kyiv; Russia's War On Ukraine; Ukraine's Fight Against Drone; Trump Defense Rests; Trump On Trial; "Unified Reich" Posted On Trump's Social Media; Chuck Schumer In Discussions With Mike Johnson Over Netanyahu; Iran Mourns President Raisi; Death Of Iran's President; A.I. Controversy; Scarlett Johansson Lawyered Up. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 21, 2024 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:36]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Jim Sciutto in today for my colleague Isa Soares. Tonight, a
terrifying incident mid-flight leaves one person dead, dozens more injured. What we're learning about severe turbulence aboard a Singapore Airlines
flight.
Then Donald Trump's defense team resting its case in the former president's criminal hush money trial. What we've heard today, and what comes next, and
how quickly. Plus, CNN rides along with Ukrainian drone unit using surprising new strategies to fight Russia's advances on northeastern
Ukraine.
That important and much more coming up this hour. We do begin tonight with a rare occurrence in the skies, turbulence, so severe, it caused a death on
board. Take a look at this damage inside that Singapore Airlines jet, damaged equipment hanging from the ceiling, those oxygen mask, glass and
cutlery thrown on the floor.
The flight from London to Singapore hit what authorities called an air pocket rapidly dropping, then climbing again in the space of just 90
seconds. The incident forced the plane to divert as you can see here, landing in Bangkok instead.
The turbulence left at least 71 people on board injured, six in critical condition. Airport officials say a 73 year-old British man who had a
previous heart condition has died. CNN's Gabe Cohen is following the latest developments, he joins me now. Good to see you Gabe, but 71 people injured
on that jet. What do we know about their condition and how many are in serious condition?
GABE COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Well, we know 71 people injured, Jim, as you mentioned, six of them in critical condition, at least one American who was
on board that plane was injured as well. We're hearing about broken bones, potential head injury, a lot of cuts and bruises and we'll likely learn
more about the conditions of those passengers in the hours and days ahead.
We know that they were nearing the end of the flight, flying over Myanmar when this happened, when they likely encountered some really rapidly
developing thunderstorms that were in the area. We don't know if that was the cause of this at this time, but we know that those weather patterns
were unfolding as it played out.
And we do have flight data that shows what the plane did during those seconds. It made some really extremely violent maneuvers, suddenly dropping
and then climbing, dropping and then climbing again. All of that within just 90 seconds, and just after that, we can see the plane start to reroute
and make its way to Bangkok where it made that emergency landing.
And you can only imagine, Jim, what the passengers were experiencing during those 90 seconds. Just looking at the pictures of the damage inside the
plane. We are talking about parts of the ceiling, the luggage compartments collapsing, other objects that were flying around the cabin.
We have also seen images of medics on the ground in Bangkok carrying passengers out on stretchers. It was not just a violent scene. It was an
emotional scene once they got to the airport -- here's how the director of the airport in Bangkok described what he saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KITTIPONG KITTIKACHOM, DIRECTOR OF SUVAMABHUMI AIRPORT (through translator): The plane landed at the airport and the medical team was sent
to the scene. Many injuries occurred. So, the airport had to issue an emergency plan. All our teams went to help and also found one man had died.
This kind of incident rarely happens where there's death after a plane has hit a severe turbulence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: And so, an investigation is now underway, Jim, it's being led at this point by the Singapore Ministry of Transport, presumably because this
was a Singapore Airlines flight. They're trying to determine what happened here. Look, to be clear, turbulence is extremely common. It's the number
one cause of injuries on flights.
But these kinds of severe injuries are extremely rare. We have only seen one other person killed by turbulence on a commercial flight since 2016.
So, there are going to be a lot of questions about what caused such an extreme impact. And Jim, we also know this was a Boeing aircraft, a 777.
They have of course been under the microscope for months now because of safety issues. But to be clear, at this point, there is no indication that
this was a Boeing issue, and the company has already said they are in touch with Singapore Airlines and ready to assist if need be. Jim?
[14:05:00]
SCIUTTO: Gabe Cohen, thanks so much. For more now, CNN's Richard Quest joins me. And Richard, I wonder, and again, there will be an investigation
-- what you make of not just what appears to be severe turbulence and air pocket, but also the jets movements, sharp tilts, descent followed by a
sharp ascent, as I understand it, autopilot -- I mean, what could have --
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: No --
SCIUTTO: Caused --
QUEST: No --
SCIUTTO: Those movements.
QUEST: Oh, I think this is good -- very good question, Jim. But it's really straightforward. Plane-flying along hits various bits, it goes like that,
that's the air, that is your turbulence. Now, it doesn't have to drop thousands of feet. If you're talking about altitude movements in the order
of several hundred feet, that will have a dramatic effect.
The best -- look, if my hand drops like that, you see how the pen goes? The pen. Now imagine you're the pen, the plane drops, you hit the top of the
cabin --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
QUEST: And what we see here when you look at that chart that Gabe was showing, you see these fluctuations, and I have to say, there is some --
not disagreement, but lack of clarity on exactly the moment on which were the drops that were relevant. Some people think it was a little bit later,
other people think it was a little bit earlier.
So, there's a little bit of confusion over what entirely was the core bit of turbulence. But in any event, if a plane goes into bad weather where
there are different cloud structures and different air movements, then the plane will bounce around. Now, the plane won't fall apart. That is core to
understanding this. The plane is built to take it. Unfortunately, Jim, you and I --
SCIUTTO: Right --
QUEST: If we haven't got our seat belts on, we are not.
SCIUTTO: No, and that's why they tell us to put it on. I remember when I was taking flight lessons, my instructor would have me --
QUEST: You're right --
SCIUTTO: Sunglasses in my hand, and you take a little -- a little dip and they would float there --
QUEST: That's exactly what happens, yes.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, though, I wonder what the pilots were doing - -
QUEST: Yes --
SCIUTTO: In the bits to this, and was in reaction to this -- was the flight ever in danger beyond -- the obviously clear danger to the passengers, what
was it? Was it ever in danger of something worse?
QUEST: Do I believe that the pilots lost control to the point where they could have lost the aircraft? No. No, I don't. This plane was on autopilot
to start with. So, that would have recovered it back to where it was meant to be.
So, it was on auto throttle, it was on autopilot, all the necessary things were. Did they momentarily have a situational crisis potentially. But this
didn't last that long, no. What I think happens is, this immediately happens. Why -- the core discussion point needs to be what could they have
known more about the weather --
SCIUTTO: Right --
QUEST: In the area. So, you've got your onboard radar, you've got air traffic control, you've got wide reports from planes before you further
down route. What was the information swirling around that they could have?
Because the reports suggest they did switch on the fasten seat belt signs at the core moment when it happened. Was there sufficient information for
them to have --
SCIUTTO: Right --
QUEST: Done it sooner? That will be the issue. I mean, the fact that planes will hit air turbulence, that's a fact of flying.
SCIUTTO: I hit some the other day, but boy --
QUEST: Yes --
SCIUTTO: Not like this. Richard Quest --
QUEST: Well, remember as well, Jim, you know, you see the picture of the galley, you see the picture of the galley, I know everything, if they were
just starting the service for the last meal, and the plane suddenly drops - - and remember, the actual ceiling compartment, everything is going to go onto the floor in one fell swoop. And the ceiling bits aren't held on that
greatly. They're not core to the --
SCIUTTO: Right --
QUEST: Infrastructure of the aircraft, so, they come down, these -- the plastic jungle as the air masks are known, they come down. It's all -- it's
all very nasty and very troubling. But the plane, I don't believe was ever in danger.
SCUITTO: Right, and that's an important point, the airframe --
QUEST: Yes --
SCIUTTO: Not threatened. Richard Quest, thanks so much.
QUEST: Thank you --
SCIUTTO: We'll follow up when the investigation is complete. Now, back to here in the U.S., Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial, where the
defense is now rested, closing arguments expected next Tuesday.
The defense resting -- just a few hours ago following testimony from its final witness, Robert Costello, he briefly served as an adviser to Michael
Cohen and his time on the stand will be best remembered for a heated standoff with the judge, Juan Merchan, Donald Trump did not testify in his
own offense, perhaps not surprisingly.
Former president, we should note though, has pleaded not guilty to the 34 felony counts. Our senior crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz is
with us now. So, prosecution rested, defense rested, how soon does the jury get this case? And then how soon, I suppose -- well, we don't know how long
it's going to take them to decide.
[14:10:00]
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: It could be minutes, it could be weeks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Right --
POLANTZ: Next week is when the jurors will come in and hear the final summations, the closing arguments of this case from both sides from
prosecutors and defense, that happens Tuesday, very likely. And then Wednesday, very likely is when the deliberations will begin. But right now,
today, we are seeing a day in court where we get both parts, both major parts of the defense case, right?
We saw the end of the defense presentation of Robert Costello as a witness? His main point was that Michael Cohen is a liar. That's what Robert
Costello wanted to get across as a defense witness. He said that in the box today, and it is something that the defense is likely going to be drumming
home as they give their final summation next week, that Michael Cohen can't be trusted, and thus, the jury should discredit his testimony about Donald
Trump and the directions Trump was giving around these Stormy Daniels payments.
That's one part of the case. The other part of the case, that's what's about to happen in the next five minutes in court. That is Donald Trump's
team challenging the law, and they're going to be discussing the judge with the judge exactly how the charges should be explained legally to the jury
as the jury is instructed to go forth and deliberate.
That's important because a large part of the defense case is expected to be the argument that there is no evidence of intent that Donald Trump wanted
to commit a crime, wanted to violate campaign finance regulations, wanted to hide these payments to Michael Cohen, and that he never did --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
POLANTZ: In any way anything criminal related to these catch-and-kill schemes and bearing stories --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
POLANTZ: From women during the 2016 election.
SCIUTTO: Donald Trump was just speaking there, there was nothing new in his statements, he will often say false things in those statements, and we
should note, he has repeatedly attacked the court proceedings, but he did. Katelyn Polantz have the opportunity, at least, to testify under oath in
his own trial, he chose not to.
POLANTZ: Correct. This isn't something in this case that the jury is able to hold against him. There is always the possibility he could have taken
the stand and asserted his Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination. That is something in the constitution he's able to do in a situation like this.
He said he's wanted to testify, he has testified on his own behalf before, that was in a civil case, one where he was also deposed. So, he was under
oath in that civil case. That's a different thing than a criminal case. It's also a much different thing than a criminal investigation or a
congressional --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
POLANTZ: Investigation where Trump previously said, yes, I'll speak -- I'll testify and never did.
SCIUTTO: Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much. Overseas now, beyond outrageous. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is attacking the chief prosecutor
of the International Criminal Court. Here are some of Netanyahu's words from an interview on "ABC".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: Well, I think this is absurd. This is beyond outrageous. This guy is out to demonize Israel. He's doing a
hit job, he's creating a false symmetry between the democratically-elected leaders of Israel and the terrorists chieftains. That's like saying in
after 9/11, well, I'm issuing arrest warrants for George Bush, but also for bin Laden.
Or after in World War II, well, I'm issuing arrest warrants for FDR, but also for Hitler. It's a hit job. It's not serious. He's out to defame
Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: On Monday, we should note the ICC announced it was seeking arrest warrants for top Hamas and Israeli officials, including Prime Minister
Netanyahu. The move has been met with split reactions internationally. Germany and the U.S. have raised sharp objections, France, however, is
showing support for the move.
Inside Gaza, a grim reality remains. United Nations says, it is alarmed by the growing difficulty of transferring in and distributing aid to needy
people there. One senior U.N. official put it bluntly, calling the humanitarian catastrophe worse than quote, "hell on earth".
According to an Israeli agency, over the past week, only 14 aid trucks have reached Gaza through the temporary floating pier built by the U.S.
military. Just moments ago, the World Health Organization chief called on Israel to lift all restrictions on medical aid entering Gaza.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond joins us now live from Jerusalem. And that is notable because it is the lack of aid getting into Gaza and the resulting
starvation of many Gazans, which is central to the ICC's investigators request for these arrest warrants.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's no doubt about it, and we are indeed currently seeing once again a moment where
humanitarian aid officials are sounding the alarm, saying that not enough aid is getting into the Gaza Strip.
[14:15:00]
In large part because of the Israeli military's -- expanded military operations, not only in Rafah, in southern Gaza, where we have seen the
Israeli military take control of that Rafah Border Crossing, which has remained closed for more than two weeks now, but also in northern Gaza
where intense fighting between the Israeli military and Hamas is also affecting the security logistics of getting that aid safely into Gaza and
also safely then distributing that aid.
But the Israeli Prime Minister, his allies, but also his rivals are all striking out against this decision by the ICC's chief prosecutor to seek
arrest warrants against Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, focusing in particular on this moral equivalency that they believe
the ICC is drawing by issuing or seeking these arrest warrants for both Hamas and Israel in the same breath.
We heard the Israeli Prime Minister today calling this absurd, beyond outrageous, arguing that it is seeking to handcuff Israel and its war
against Hamas. But he is showing no indication that this decision by the ICC is going to slow down the Israeli military in Gaza or cause him to
second-guess the decision-making of his military or his overall strategy in Gaza.
Instead, saying that Israel will continue to carry forward this war and continue to do so in a way that reaches the ultimate objective that he has
said is -- which is to destroy Hamas in Gaza.
SCIUTTO: Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem, thanks so much. Programming note for you, coming up in just two hours, Jake Tapper will interview the Israeli
Prime Minister Netanyahu. Join us at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, 9:00 p.m. London time to see that interview. A short time ago, we heard from U.S. Secretary
of State Antony Blinken, who said he is open to legislative action against the International Criminal Court as a result of these arrest warrants.
Joining us now to discuss is Alon Pinkas, he is live in Tel Aviv. He served as the Consul General of Israel in New York. Mr. Pinkas, thanks so much for
joining.
ALON PINKAS, FORMER CONSUL GENERAL FOR ISRAEL IN NEW YORK: My pleasure, Jim, good to be with you.
SCIUTTO: So, first, let me ask your reaction to -- the Israeli argument is that this is making a false equivalence between Hamas and Israel. What the
ICC told our Christiane Amanpour yesterday is making no equivalency here. It is -- it is requesting an arrest warrant for Hamas for brutal terror
attacks, rape, murder, et cetera.
It is accusing Israel of something different here, which is effectively denying crucial humanitarian aid to the residents of Gaza, and that, that
is the basis or a large portion of the basis for its case against Israel. What's your answer to that explanation?
PINKAS: Well, it sounds pretty simple, Jim. Here's the thing. Once you put it in the same document, people are going to get the impression that
there's a moral equivalency being created. And that I think was a tactical mistake on the part of the ICC.
After the substance of the issue, the ICC is correct. If you look and read carefully, which I did more than once. The list of charges and the list of
items against Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Gallant on the one hand and the two guys of Hamas, you see that these are completely different charges.
In fact, the document does state unequivocally that Hamas' barbaric attack began all this. But then as you said, that you pointed out correctly, Jim,
that Israel then denied humanitarian aid --
SCIUTTO: Right --
PINKAS: And there was suspicion of war crimes as a result of indiscriminate bombing, et cetera. So --
SCIUTTO: Right --
PINKAS: The simplest way was just to separate the two into two documents. But you know, different decision was made.
SCIUTTO: So, that's quite a different argument you're making there than for instance, what Netanyahu is making or even the U.S. President Joe Biden or
Antony Blinken or some members of Congress now, the U.S. Congress who are threatening to deny funding or somehow sanction the ICC.
Are you saying in effect that at least as a question of the law, it doesn't presume what the result of any legal proceeding would be. But as a question
of the law, the charges and arrest warrant against Israel are not by their nature fundamentally unfounded or unfair or unjust.
PINKAS: Well, that's a great point you're making. First of all, it's important to emphasize that despite what Mr. Netanyahu says and his
pontificate, Israel is not being accused here, he is, as a chief decision- maker. The IDF, Israel Defense Forces is not on trial. Here is the arrest warrants against IDF senior brass, but there's arrest warrant -- an arrest
warrant against him.
And yes, so, there's a difference. Yes, of course, you know, that makes this into a national issue, everyone is behind me and the entire state is
being -- military death and so on.
[14:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes.
PINKAS: Now, ask me your question. As you know, Jim, the U.S. is not a party to their own statute --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
PINKAS: Which the ICJ, the international Court of Justice and the ICC, the International Criminal Court work. The reason the U.S. did not ratify the
Rome Statute was because of the Afghanistan war, because of the same things that President Biden and Secretary of State Blinken are saying now, that
the --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
PINKAS: U.S. would be vulnerable and exposed to this. Now, the fact that they're calling for these sanctions, yes, well, that was accepted. That was
almost predictable and inevitable. That it does not prejudge the content of the document. I have to agree with you, that is also true.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. I wonder where in your judgment, Israeli public opinion stands on this question. Not the warrants, just the warrants
themselves, but the conduct of the war, the civilian casualties, the state of the humanitarian crisis there.
An Israeli military veteran wrote in an op-ed in the "New York Times" just yesterday, and the -- by the way, founded a group here, breaking the
silence, which includes a number of Israeli military veterans critical of the occupation.
And he wrote the following, "as the war grinds on, we Israelis are not who we think we are. We may think we know our boundaries and principles, we may
think we are on the side of right, we may think we are in control, yet what was once unthinkable soon becomes the norm.
The innocent, we say must be protected, but we have lived for too long as an occupying power, too many among us see no one as innocent anymore." And
I wonder if you share that criticism there, that there are at least, some in the Israeli public who don't -- well, I suppose the way to ask it is see
the humanity of the -- of the folks on the other side anymore. And then allow this --
PINKAS: Yes --
SCIUTTO: Kind of progress and conduct of the war.
PINKAS: OK, that's a great question, but I have to divide it even analytically into two. The sentiment that was in that op-ed in the "New
York Times", which I read, which you quoted from that sentiment, that introspection, that self-doubts, that questions -- honest and hard
questions that we ask ourselves, that's been there all along.
Yet, as after the war, once the war began in the aftermath of the catastrophe of October 7th, there was this sense of indifference and
bluntness in the Israeli public opinion as to what is really going on in Gaza. The devastation, the humiliation, the anger, the resentment, the --
you know, the pure sense of revenge, the human sense of revenge was so strong that people became completely oblivious to what's going on in Gaza.
SCIUTTO: Yes --
PINKAS: But after -- now I'm trying to merge the two together, Jim, the sentiment that is expressed in the "New York Times", that Israel is not who
we think we are, that's there. The public is not happy with the conduct of the war. The public is far from supportive of Mr. Netanyahu's mismanagement
of the war.
At the same time, the public is less interested in what's going on in Gaza. This may be tragic. This may be unfortunate, but you know, it is what it
is.
SCIUTTO: I've heard it and I've heard it from others there. Alon Pinkas, I hope we can keep up the conversation, thanks for joining.
PINKAS: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still to come tonight, Ukraine's war against Russia's invasion is adding some further high tech support. Our Nick Paton Walsh got a look at
the use of drones to fight the war.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:26:31]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back, I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Germany's Foreign Ministers making a surprise visit to Ukraine. Annalena Baerbock is in Kyiv
for her eighth visit since the Russian invasion began in 2022. She's trying to drum up support for Ukraine's air defense system in particular.
She says her global initiative has raised nearly 1 billion euros for Kyiv's air defense, and there is a push for additional support. The war, of
course, continues as at least two people were killed, another five injured today. Ukrainian officials say these from Russian attacks over the past day
in the southern Ukraine as well as in the eastern Donetsk.
Ukraine's fight against Russia is not just on the ground or using missiles trumps -- must now plan against Russian drone, swarms of them, and use
their own drones to help fight back. Nick -- CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine to show us how they face it all.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): Dusk begins a race to hide before dark. It's this drone units' first night in a
new location. A twilight, a tiny window when perhaps you can unpack, set up without the Russian drones that are always above, seeing you is clearly.
Like so much in this fast changing war, their task was unimaginable when Moscow invaded. The target is on the horizon. Russia itself into which they
fly and plant mines on key roads. They wait for dark.
(on camera): Those light twinkling over there on the horizon, that's Belgorod, Russia, how close they're operating towards Russian mainland.
(voice-over): Putin's latest offensive towards Kharkiv has made the fight personal for Artiom(ph), his parents lived about a five-minute drive away
and fighting for his literal home is unsettling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WALSH: And now for the first in many times in many times, their only defense is to listen for drones.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUGAE)
WALSH: It passes, now it is dark, they must hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WALSH: Russian drones have thermal cameras, they hear another.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Go --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No light. No light.
WALSH: Battles raging nearby may help them go unnoticed. They resume --
(EXPLOSION)
WALSH: Any strike could also ignite the two mines they're fitting. And they hear another drone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
[14:30:17]
WALSH: It's such an escalation. We're over two years into the war to now see Ukrainians flying drones of explosive straight into Russia.
WALSH (voice-over): Inside Sasha watches it cross the border.
SASHA (through translator): Here's the border.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you bring your passport.
SASHA (through translator): No visa needed.
WALSH (voice-over): Remarkably, when Russian jamming kicks in, the drone keeps going. And they're able to pick the signal up again, deeper inside
Russia.
They spot the target road they will mine. Dropped both payloads and head back.
A GPS problem means that drone crash-lands, but they have a spare. They once, elsewhere, managed 24 sorties in one night.
But they have to be spotted only once. And these shells may not pass overhead.
We leave. Lights off at first to avoid drones. The road littered with anti- tank defenses, not laid out in time to hinder Russia's latest advance. And now, they have only courage and ingenuity to hold back the dark.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, outside Kharkiv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: The war drags on. Still to come tonight, he is the first former U.S. president to go on trial in a criminal case. Jurors are now just days
away from beginning their deliberations.
And the body of the Iranian president killed in a helicopter crash over the weekend arrives back in Tehran. This is the scene in the streets of the
capital right now. We're going to speak about funeral plans just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:41]
SCIUTTO: Very soon, it will be up to the jury to decide the fate of Donald Trump in this historic criminal trial. Witness testimony is now over.
Closing arguments expected to begin one week from today. Court will be dark until after the Memorial Day weekend here in the U.S. The prosecution
called some 20 witnesses, the defense only two. The case could very well hinge on the testimony of Former Trump personal attorney and fixer Michael
Cohen.
Joining us now for a look at where this case stands, Former Federal Prosecutor Michael Zeldin. He's the host of the podcast. "That Said with
Michael Zeldin." Michael, good to have you on this evening.
MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I'm going to start in the broadest terms. You've been following this very closely. You're a prosecutor yourself. Has the
prosecution proven its case?
ZELDIN: I believe so. I think that the combination of the direct evidence from Cohen and the circumstantial evidence from other witnesses and the
documentation should be enough to get this jury to guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. But we'll have to see whether or not there is a holdout
juror or two that could lead to a hung jury.
SCIUTTO: Including, just to be clear, the piece of this prosecution case that raised the charges to the level of a felony, and that is a violation
of election law. Because as I understand it, you and I have talked about this many times, that that's the biggest legal, I don't want to say leap
here, but jump to go from misdemeanor to felony.
ZELDIN: That's right. And what will be really instructive is how does the judge instruct the jury. This is a curious case in that the misdemeanor is
the business crimes. Those business crimes have to be with the intent, not the actual commission of, but with the intent to commit another crime.
We'll see how the judge instructs the jury about what are the business crimes, which is probably the false entries in the ledgers, and then with
what intent to violate state election law, federal election law, New York State tax law.
So, the jury instruction, part of this, will be really determinative, I think, of how the jury assesses the evidence.
SCIUTTO: So, tell us, what are the judge's options here? So, if those instructions are key, what might he tell him -- tell those jurors that
could sway them perhaps either way?
ZELDIN: I think what the judge has to say is, you have to first find whether there was the underlying crime of business fraud, the false entries
in the books. And then next, you've got to move to, was it done with the intent to violate another criminal statute?
And he may tell the jury that the criminal statutes at play are A, B, and C, or he might say, you determine what they are, and it could be one of --
three people could go for tax, three people could go for state, three people could go for federal.
I would think that he would want to give them sort of special verdict forms where they sort of fill out check the boxes to make sure that they all are
in agreement of what the crime was, with what intent.
SCIUTTO: Notable. OK. So, clear that those instructions are going to be key to all this. A key challenge, and we talked about this from the very
beginning of this trial, was Cohen's testimony. To be clear, it wasn't only Cohen's testimony. That's the reason the prosecution brought up David
Pecker and Stormy Daniels, et cetera, as well as accountants involved. But Cohen is a key player here.
Did his testimony survive the credibility challenges, several of them by the defense?
ZELDIN: You know, Paul Simon wrote this song called "The Boxer." A man he writes, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. So, I
think there's enough in Cohen's testimony to hear that there is evidence to convict. But there's also opportunity for reasonable doubt to be heard by
jurors.
And I think that it'll be very interesting to see what happens in that jury room, especially because you have two lawyers on the jury. And how the
shaping of that narrative goes within the jury room will, I think, determine whether we get a verdict of guilt or we get a hung jury. I do not
think there'll be a verdict of not guilty.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, Trump, of course, could have testified on the stand under oath, and while he attacked the trial multiple times, including
today, from the safety of a microphone as opposed to under oath, he did not take that option. Was that the right call by his team keeping him off the
stand?
[14:40:00]
ZELDIN: Absolutely. He has a very strained relationship with truth telling. And in this case, he would have to essentially refute the very specific
testimony of all these other witnesses who said he had knowledge, he participated, in fact, he orchestrated the thing. And I just don't see he
could survive cross-examination on that.
So, absolutely, he did the right thing. I think it was good that his lawyers prevailed upon him. I actually don't think he really ever wanted to
testify, that it was much more bluster, but I think that was the right outcome.
SCIUTTO: Yes, he has made that, I don't know if threat is the right word, but he's talked about testifying many more times in cases such as this than
he actually has. Michael Zeldin, thanks so much.
ZELDIN: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Well, also in U.S. politics, a video posted, and since deleted we should note, on former President Trump's social media account references a
"unified Reich" if he were to be re-elected this year.
In the video, images of fake newspaper headlines allude to the term often associated with Nazi Germany. The video was removed from Trump's social
media account just hours ago. Trump's campaign said it was not created by the campaign itself, but reposted by a staffer who did not notice those
words.
Let's go straight to Alayna Treene. Tell us how the Trump campaign is explaining this, because I know in the past there's been some talk that
only Trump or quite senior staffers have control over that account. They're saying, the campaign is saying, in this case, it was a low-level staffer,
didn't actually vet what was in this campaign ad.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Right. Well, the Trump campaign is obviously trying to distance themselves from it. And we saw a statement from the
Trump campaign saying exactly that. They said that this was shared by a staffer, it wasn't a campaign video, and it was shared while Donald Trump
was in court.
And to answer your question, Jim, there are people who do post on Donald Trump's Truth Social account. However, there are very few of them, I
believe only two. And I'm not going to name names right now because I have not yet confirmed who was the person who re-shared this. However, there are
very few people who actually have access to his Truth Social profile. So, I want you to keep that in mind.
But, look, I do want to just walk you through some of the reaction we've had to this, and also just to respond to them deleting this video this
morning. That came after hours of this being up. So, a lot of Networks, including ours, had reached out to the Trump campaign asking about this
video. And we got that statement from Karoline Leavitt, a Trump campaign spokesperson.
But then we also asked -- or I asked at least, why has this not been removed? And this video was posted yesterday on his Truth Social account.
And it wasn't until mid-morning today that it was removed. And so, I mean, I think it's pretty astonishing how many hours it remained up online.
Now, I do also just want to point to you some of the backlash that this is receiving. We've saw the Biden campaign and to the White House swiftly
respond to this. A White House spokesperson, Andrew Bates, said that it was abhorrent, sickening, and disgraceful. He added that any, any antisemitic
dog whistling is dangerous and offensive.
We also heard directly from the vice president, Kamala Harris. She addressed this at a campaign event in Philadelphia. She said that this kind
of rhetoric is unsurprising coming from the former president, and it is appalling. And she added that we got to tell him who we are. And so, we
also heard from Karine Jean-Pierre, the White House press secretary, and she said that President Joe Biden is expected to address this directly when
he makes remarks tonight in Boston.
But look, I do just want to put a fine point on this, Jim, and kind of lay out the context of this. Donald Trump has, in the past, made antisemitic
tropes. He often criticizes Jewish Americans who vote for Democrats. He blamed many Jewish Americans for not being pro-Jewish enough or being pro-
Israel enough for not voting for him in the last election. He's also used antisemitic rhetoric in the past when he called -- he argued that
immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country or referring to his enemies as vermin. That is language that has been directly linked and
argued by -- credited to Adolf Hitler being similar to Adolf Hitler.
And so, this is something we have seen in the past. But I will also add that the fact that they removed this at all, I think, shows that the Trump
campaign recognizes that this was a big issue. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, we could go even further. His former chief of staff, the retired General John Kelly, told me that Trump repeatedly praised Adolf
Hitler while he was president, saying, "Hitler did some good things." So, take that as it is. Alayna Treene, thanks so much for joining.
[14:45:00]
And this just in to CNN, the U.S. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat, says he's now in discussions with the House Speaker Mike Johnson,
Republican, over the possibility of inviting the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to give a joint address before Congress.
Schumer told CNN's Manu Raju, "Our relationship with Israel is ironclad." We'll bring you more details on this possibility as we get them.
And this programming reminder, coming up in about 90 minutes, Jake Tapper will speak to the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. You can catch it on
"The Lead" at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, 9:00 p.m. in London.
Still to come tonight, Iran mourning its president, killed over the weekend in a helicopter crash. His body returned to the capitol of Tehran. CNN's
Ben Wedeman will provide his insight straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: An official mourning period and memorial ceremonies are underway for the late Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi. This, following a fatal
helicopter crash, which Iran says is now under investigation. The president's body arrived in Tehran on Tuesday. Ceremonies planned for
Wednesday in the capital's Grand Mosque.
Later in the week, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, will conduct Prayers. Earlier on Tuesday, thousands of mourners gathered in the
northwest city of Tabriz, not far from where that helicopter went down as the coffins of the dead were driven through the crowds.
Following on all this from Rome is CNN's Ben Wedeman. And, Ben, I wonder, as we watch this many in the Iranian public gathering to pay honor to the
late Iranian president. we know that in the last several years, there have been quite public demonstrations against his leadership's, great courageous
acts of opposition, particularly to the treatment of women, forced wearing of the hijab, et cetera. How do we see the Iranian public's reaction to
this in that context?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think I don't need to tell you that when we look at these pictures coming out of
state-run media in Iran, we should not assume that there is universal mourning at the death of President Ebrahim Raisi and those other senior
officials who died in that crash on Sunday in the mountains near Tabriz.
As you mentioned, we've seen a series of uprisings. Back in 2019, more than 500 people were killed in nationwide demonstrations over fuel price
increases. And of course, last year we saw nationwide demonstrations against what is considered the alleged it -- was the killing of a young
woman who was not wearing her hijab correctly.
So, there is growing dissatisfaction with the system, the establishment in Iran. What we've seen is steadily the number of people participating in
elections has been going down. And therefore, these pictures obviously are showing thousands of people mourning the death of Raisi. But we shouldn't
take this as sort of how all Iranians feel.
[14:50:00]
And I call you just an anecdote, I covered the funeral of Hafez al-Assad, the dictator of Syria in June of 2000. And when we were going around
Damascus, when you put up your camera and there was a crowd of people, they would suddenly start to wail and cry and chant their undying loyalty to the
great leader. But when you would put down the camera, they would suddenly stop, light up cigarettes, and go back to chatting among themselves. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Ben Wedeman, thanks so much for sharing your experience as we cover events in Iran.
Please do stay with us. We're going to be right back after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. The actress, Scarlett Johansson, has now lawyered up. OpenAI has hit the pause button on ChantGPT's new artificial
intelligence voice, which prompted comparisons to the fictional virtual assistant played by Johansson in the 2013 film, "Her." So, have a listen
yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCARLETT JOHANSSON, ACTRESS, "HER": Good morning, Theodore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.
JOHANSSON: You have a meeting in five minutes. You want to try getting out of bed?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once upon a time, in a world not too different from ours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: To help us unpack this story, let's bring in Clare Duffy, CNN business writer. I mean, a classic case of fiction mirroring reality -- or
reality mirroring fiction here. Explain how we got to this point. Because the allegation from Scarlett Johansson is they asked her to use her voice
for this, she said no, and yet the voice still sounds a heck of a lot like her.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Jim. So, according to Scarlett Johansson, this all began about nine months ago when OpenAI CEO Sam Altman
approached her and asked her if she'd be willing to be the voice of this updated version of ChatGPT. She said she thought about it, but ultimately
decided for personal reasons to decline.
And then about two days before this updated ChatGPT launched, just over a week ago, she said Sam Altman came back to her agent and asked her to
reconsider being involved in the project. She said they didn't have time to talk about it. And then the company went ahead and launched it anyways. She
said she was shocked, angered in disbelief when she heard this new chat GPT voice, which the company calls Sky, sounding, in her words, eerily similar
to hers.
[14:55:00]
And it wasn't just her, there were many people who are comparing this new ChatGPT voice to her voice in the movie "Her," which really is interesting
because that's a movie -- a sort of dystopian movie about the relationship between humans and technology.
SCIUTTO:
DUFFY: Now, OpenAI says that this was never her voice, that they actually hired a separate voice actress to create this new ChatGPT voice, but that
the company has put the voice on pause out of respect for Johansson.
But look, this really does get at some of the broader concerns in Hollywood, among all authors and artists about artificial intelligence who
are worried about the ways that these models, these platforms could be using their work, their likeness to train these A.I. models and then could
replicate them and profit from them without ever actually crediting and, you know, paying the artists whose work is used to train these models, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it was central to the Hollywood strike, was it not? Where it would happen. And I've spoken to actors who've suddenly seen their faces
pop up in say video games, et cetera. So, listen, understandable concerns here. So, it's been paused. What happens now?
DUFFY: Yes. So, this voice has been paused. OpenAI says that it is sort of looking at this again, reconsidering. But the company did say that, again,
this was not Johansson's voice. But I do think it is something the company is going to have to consider going forward as, OK, so you didn't use her
voice, but you created one that sounded a lot like hers.
And look, Johansson successfully won a lawsuit against Disney. This is somebody who's willing to take on big companies. So, if they don't want any
further legal action from Johansson, I can't imagine that they will be bringing this voice back.
SCIUTTO: Clare Duffy, thanks so much. And thanks so much for all of you for watching tonight. Please do stay with CNN. I'm going to be back with more
right after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
