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Isa Soares Tonight
Russia Making Advances in Ukraine's Front Line; Putin's Annual News Conference in Moscow; GA Appeals Court Disqualifies Fani Willis from Prosecuting Trump; Desperate Efforts to Avert a U.S. Government Shutdown; Vanuatu Now Recovering from Earthquake. UnitedHealthcare CEO Murder Suspect in New York to Face New Federal Charges; French Court Sentences Dominique Pelicot to 20 Years in Prison; Human Rights Watch Accuses Israel of Acts of Genocide By Deliberately Restricting Water. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 19, 2024 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. We want to begin with two major legal stories
this evening. Just minutes ago, the suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO arrived in New York as you're seeing there, after
being flown from Pennsylvania.
And these pictures you're looking at there, you can see him there in that orange suit, shows the extraordinary security around Luigi Mangione. He's
in the orange jumpsuit, being escorted heavily, escorted by armed police. Even the city's mayor, the New York State case against him will proceed in
parallel, we understand with a federal case.
And multiple sources tell CNN, those new federal charges will include murder, stalking and a weapons charge. UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson
was killed earlier this month while walking to a conference, if you remember from his Manhattan hotel. We of course, stay across this story,
we'll come back to it in just a few moments and take you live to New York for the very latest.
We turn though, now to Avignon in France -- well, where Gisele Pelicot, as you can see here, the 72-year-old woman whose former husband, Dominique
Pelicot and dozens of others were sentenced today for her horrifying mass rape spanning a decade. Across the world, she has become a figure of
strength as well as resilience for going public with her case, a decision she says she has never regretted.
And the perpetrators of her abuse include these 50 men, just take it in, these are their names, includes Dominique Pelicot, but 50 others sentenced
between them all to some more than 400 combined years. Speaking outside the courtroom, Gisele Pelicot said she hopes to give survivors of sexual
violence the courage to speak up. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GISELE PELICOT, SURVIVOR OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE (through translator): I am thinking, finally, of the unrecognized victims of stories which often
unfold in the shadows. I want you to know we share the same fight. I would like to express my most profound gratitude to everyone who supported me
throughout this lengthy trial. Your testimonies moved me, and I drew strength from them to return every day during these long days of hearings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: A remarkable woman. Our Melissa Bell has more from Avignon, southern France, where the month-long trial was held.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gisele Pelicot was determined that the shame should not be hers, waiving her anonymity and
with it that of her rapists. "Rapists, we see you", shouted the crowd outside, as inside Dominique Pelicot received the maximum sentence of 20
years for the drugging and mass rape of his then wife, Gisele over nearly a decade.
Outside the court, there was anger that the 50 other men on trial alongside him had not received the maximum sentences sought by prosecutors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BELL: But as she left the court, Gisele Pelicot made no comment on the verdicts.
G. PELICOT: I have faith now in our capacity to carve out collectively a future where everyone, women and men, can live in harmony, in respect and
mutual understanding.
BELL: A stark contrast to the brutality of a trial that saw the violent rapes of an unconscious Gisele Pelicot shown in court day-after-day. Two of
the videos shot by her then husband of more than 50 years, Dominique Pelicot unmasked by chance in 2020 when a guard caught him filming up
women's skirts in a supermarket.
An incident that led police to the horrors that this unassuming retiree had on his phone and computer, videos of more than 200 acts of aggravated rape
against his wife, most including other men.
[14:05:00]
It was not far from the couple's home in the sleepy town of Mazan in southern France, that he met the men after recruiting them online.
Dominique Pelicot's lawyer said her client will consider whether to appeal. "We are going to take advantage of the delay, which gives us ten days to
decide if we want to appeal this decision", she said.
As she left court, Gisele Pelicot was again celebrated for making the trial public and for having in her own words, forced shame onto the perpetrators
and where it belongs. Melissa Bell, CNN, Avignon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, I want to bring in French philosopher Manon Garcia live from Avignon, France, where she has been following the Pelicot trial. Manon,
really appreciate you being with us this evening. You were inside that courtroom, just your take on that Pelicot case. Was justice served in your
opinion?
MANON GARCIA, FRENCH PHILOSOPHER: I mean, it was today, especially it was really sad. It was just demoralizing for people like me who have been
fighting sexual violence. It felt like even in a case like this where we have videos where we have all the possible proofs, some people are getting
out of prison or not going to prison.
But that being said, I think it's still an extraordinary case in the sense of extraordinary, and a lot of those men are going to jail. The justice did
their work of individualizing the sentencing, and in a way, justice worked well. The problem is that just justice doesn't prevent rape.
SOARES: And just on your first point, Manon, I mean, there were -- from what I understand, there were gasps inside the courtroom, and maybe you can
give us some color on this as one man named Jacques C(ph), that's a surname, he was handed a five-year suspended prison sentence. I mean, many
people calling it an insult.
GARCIA: Yes, but in my case, I was in a room with the families of the victims. So, there were a lot of gasps. There were a lot of crying, and
actually it was not so much that we were shocked that Jacques C(ph) didn't -- like would be free, but --
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: Rather that we were seeing these mothers, these sisters, these wives, these partners who were breaking down with their big bags full of
clothes for their sons or husbands. So, it was also a very bizarre experience for us to see also the two sides, and that on the --
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: Two sides, you have women everywhere who are suffering from this, not as much as Gisele Pelicot is suffering, that's not what I'm saying.
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: But it was also very striking for me to see these women who were really broken, and who will be the ones having to go to prison, having to
bring food, having to bring clothes, having to care for these men and so on. Yes, it's just sad.
SOARES: It's such a good point. You mentioned the shock and really how much it's upended so many lives, including Gisele Pelicot. But we know from
-- we heard, I should say, testimony and on during the trial from his -- for her children, Dominique Pelicot's children, the son, I think his name
is David reportedly said something, you know, "if you have any little bit of humanity left, tell the truth on what you did to my sister, who is still
suffering every day and will suffer all life." I mean, clearly, questions still remain about what has unfolded here.
GARCIA: Yes, of course, I mean, Dominique Pelicot is a big manipulator, and there's something about this trial where you just feel you can't help
but feeling you're just part of his grand oeuvre of manipulating everyone and doing this sort of show of his wife. I mean, I saw the videos. It's
really horrifying.
I don't even know how to describe this, but I know that there are people who believe that she was complicit, that she knew, et cetera, please
believe me, if you had seen the videos, she was in a coma. And the problem is that this man doesn't want to say the truth. He wants to say --
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: His truth, his masterpiece, and his masterpiece includes in his sick mind that he didn't do anything to his daughter, and that he didn't do
anything to his grandkids. But it's very likely that he did, except what we see in the situation of Caroline, his daughter, is that we don't have
proofs --
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: And that's the thing that is disheartening in this trial, is that the situation of Caroline in the court is the situation of 99 percent of
rape victims.
[14:10:00]
It's not -- we never have the videos like we have for Gisele --
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: Pelicot. It's very -- it never happens. Generally, it's suspicions, it's clues here and there. And so, yes, it was disheartening to
see how sad and angry Caroline was. But she will never have any answers from her dad. He doesn't -- he doesn't want to tell the truth.
SOARES: Yes, how does this change I mean, laws in France? I mean, has Gisele forced France, in your opinion, to talk about rape? What kind of
change should we be looking at here? Because I was reading a Sarah McGrath, "A CEO of Women for Women". She said, "we have a really problematic justice
system when it comes to trying cases of this nature."
Women in France simply don't trust the French justice system. And she pointed the fact that only 10 percent of victims of rape even report the
crime to the justice system, and of those reports, only 1 in 4 percent end up with a conviction. So, what does this case, this trial that has really
shocked the world? What does -- what can it do to -- in France? What changes can it bring about?
GARCIA: But that's what is so sad, is that it would be so easy in a way to pass a law. So, a lot of people are saying, oh, we should change the
definition of rape, define rape by non-consent, et cetera, but it's not going to -- which is more or less what is already happening. And what we
saw in this court is that they're already using the concept of consent all the time.
The problem is that a law is not going to change the fact that judges have misogynistic views, that juries have misogynistic views, that there's not
enough money for police officers to inquire the right way for judges to have time to do the files. Like we heard the judge who prosecuted the case,
she said she had 90 cases to do in one year, including the Pelicot case.
Imagine what it means. It should be something you work on full time for 2 or 3 years, right? I was talking to a police officer who is working on
those kind of cases, she said at night, I need to decide, am I working on this incest or am I working on this mass rape? Or there's not enough money
and it's way harder to find money than to change laws. So, good if people want to change laws.
SOARES: Yes --
GARCIA: But that's just a mini measure you can take, and it's not going to change things. What needs to be changed is that people need to change the
way they think about things. And I think what Gisele Pelicot did is extraordinary in that regard, because it became a huge debate, everyone was
talking about this in every family, in every -- in every work trip, in everything people were talking about it.
What is consent? Do you think a woman who is asleep can have sex with her husband even without it being raped? And that's how things changed. But
this is not with a mini law that we're going to make it not happen again.
SOARES: Very concerning, of course, for all the victims listening to this, but really taking on board the government and the laws, Gisele's rallying
cry, right? Shame must change sides. Really appreciate Manon, you taking the time to speak to us. Manon Garcia, thank you for your time, Manon.
GARCIA: Thank you very much for having me.
SOARES: You're very welcome. And if you didn't see it earlier, it was two days -- no, 24 hours ago, I should say, CNN got an exclusive access to the
French police reports, which contained thousands of messages between Dominique Pelicot and these men in chat rooms, on Skype and over text. And
you can read this eye-opening and astonishing report by my colleague Saskya Vandoorne on cnn.com.
I told you, I promised you that I was going to take you back to New York, that's where we're going right now, because a suspect in the murder of that
healthcare CEO, expected to be arraigned in a federal court at any moment. Luigi Mangione faces four counts in connection to the death of Brian
Thompson, and they include murder with the use of firearm, two charges of stalking and a firearms offense.
In addition to these charges, Mangione also faces charges in the state of Pennsylvania, remember where he was arrested. Earlier, he was extradited,
you can see there from Pennsylvania to New York. The Manhattan District Attorney has also charged Mangione with first degree murder. Let's go to
New York and Shimon Prokupecz.
And Shimon, give us a sense of where he is. Is he still in transit and where we're likely to see in the coming hours?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, he is in the federal courthouse here behind me in lower Manhattan at the Southern
District of New York. So, lower Manhattan, he's in the federal courthouse. He's waiting to make his first appearance on the federal charges.
[14:15:00]
Four counts that the FBI was investigating, and now the U.S. Attorney's office here charging him, it's two stalking counts relating to the murder
of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson very significant because he is now potentially -- and there's a lot of work to do, could be eligible for
the death penalty. He was charged with murder on the state cases, but because New York does not have the death penalty, he -- there was no chance
of that.
It would have been life without parole. Much more significant now, he will make his first appearance before a judge, there will be some discussions --
for the first time, we will get to hear from his attorney. She saw her this morning coming to court, she didn't want to say anything, but she's going
to let her words come out in court, so that will be the first time we hear from her.
And then he will be taken away and held in a federal jail as the process gets underway and await the trial, and we'll see what happens and what
happens with his state case that will at some point get going, and it will continue. But the district attorney saying that it's going to run parallel
to this, but everything right now indicates that the federal case is going to take precedent.
SOARES: Shimon Prokupecz there for us in New York staying across the breaking news lines. Thanks very much, Shimon, appreciate it. And still to
come right here tonight, U.S. lawmakers are scrambling to avoid a government shutdown, but tech billionaire Elon Musk seems to be creating
chaos on Capitol Hill. And then a human rights group accuses Israel of exterminating Palestinians by deliberately restricting life-saving water
supplies. That report and Israel's response just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Human Rights Watch is accusing Israel of deliberately depriving people in Gaza of the bare minimum of water needed to survive, saying that
amounts to the extermination of Palestinians and acts of genocide under international law. In a lengthy new report, the rights group stressed it is
not negligence, but rather what it calls, quote, "a calculated policy that has led to the deaths of thousands from dehydration as well as disease."
Human Rights Watch says Israel has obstructed aid supplies and intentionally destroyed Gaza's water infrastructure through airstrikes. It
says the policy is part of the mass killing -- their words, of Palestinian civilians in Gaza, urging governments around the world to stop all military
assistance to Israel.
[14:20:00]
Israel, meantime, is rejecting the report, saying it's full of lies. One official says Israel is facilitating the continuous flow of water into
Gaza. Another tells CNN, there is no water problem in Gaza at all. Well, CNN just visited the Gaza side of an Israeli-controlled border crossing
that's a key entry point for crucial humanitarian aid. Here's our Jeremy Diamond.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): We are on the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom crossing where you are seeing pallets of
humanitarian aid being offloaded here. But the problem is, this aid simply isn't getting to the people of Gaza in the quantities that are needed.
Humanitarian aid agencies say that the Israeli government and the Israeli military are to blame for that, not facilitating the safe distribution of
aid, the Israelis deny that.
They insist that enough aid is getting into Gaza, and that they are facilitating that aid. But I pressed one of the top Israeli officials
responsible for getting that aid in on that very question. They say that the issues are the Israeli military's unwillingness to facilitate safe
distribution of aid.
ABDULLAH HALABI, ISRAELI COORDINATION & LIAISON ADMINISTRATION: No, the Israeli troops with the Israeli side, just in the last few weeks,
facilitated several options in order to enter the aid to the Gazan side.
DIAMOND: Does your role stop at this checkpoint? Do you believe that your role stops at this checkpoint, that you're not responsible for how safely
the aid can get distributed inside of -- inside of Gaza?
HALABI: The international community is responsible to deliver the aid from the crossing points to the people of Gaza. It's their responsibility.
DIAMOND: But don't you have a responsibility for making it safe?
HALABI: We facilitated the crossings and the aid -- then the crossing, we inspect the aid, we put it in the platforms and we encourage the
humanitarian community and the organizations to come and to take the aid. The main problem, the main obstacle is the capabilities distribution.
DIAMOND: Amid that dispute between the aid agencies and the Israeli military, these pallets of aid, they are piling up. And this isn't a
theoretical problem. We are seeing that the humanitarian conditions in Gaza, they simply aren't getting better. In fact, there's a lot of chance
that it could get worse with the arrival of Winter, the rains, the need for shelter is rising.
Respiratory illnesses are rising, and people are sometimes going without food for days. Of course, a ceasefire deal could improve all of this,
bringing an enormous flow of humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip. We know that those negotiations, of course, are ongoing. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, on
the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom Crossing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, aid organizations have simply run out of words to describe the catastrophic humanitarian crisis in Gaza and it's only getting worse.
Just today, the U.N.'s humanitarian office says Israel denied yet another request to bring food and water to besieged areas in northern Gaza. It says
many Palestinians there remain cut off from the essential assistance they need to stay alive. This is what the U.N.'s chief of Human Affairs spoke
earlier to CNN. What he said. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM FLETCHER, CHIEF OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS, UNITED NATIONS: Gaza is apocalyptic right now. It is an absolutely terrible place to be a civilian.
And it's an almost impossible place to deliver humanitarian aid. We are getting only a tiny fraction through of what is needed. We're facing the
specter of starvation, again disease is rampant, our trucks are getting looted barely as they crossed over into Gaza.
It's an intolerable environment. And yet, our job as humanitarians, despite those challenges is to stand and deliver. I have to say, we're barely
standing and we're barely delivering. But we will keep trying against the odds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Strong words there from Tom Fletcher. Well, for more humanitarian crisis, we're joined by NATO official who is witnessing the situation
firsthand. Louise Wateridge is a senior Emergency Officer with the U.N. Relief Agency for Palestinian Refugees. She is in Nuseirat in Gaza tonight.
Louise, great to have you back on the show. You heard the U.N. there, U.N.'s Tom Fletcher calling it apocalyptic. Just explain for our viewers --
you're on the ground, just give us a sense of what life is like being like there. What you're witnessing so far.
LOUISE WATERIDGE, SENIOR EMERGENCY OFFICER, UNRWA: Over 2 million people are here in the Gaza Strip, and they are being deprived of every basic
need. That's what we're seeing. I have been here every day for the past two months. Nobody has enough. You see children every morning who are
scavenging through huge piles of trash to find food or to find things to shelter under.
[14:25:00]
Hours a day are spent by children queuing for water. And half the time, they get this water, it's not safe to drink. It's just endless. The misery
here is endless. Again this week, another one of the U.N. schools was bombed and hit in a strike in the southern area. And this misery just
continues. It's relentless. And this isn't just one day or one week, it's every single day. The same misery continues for these people.
SOARES: And if I could ask you about the impact this is having, Jeremy Diamond was talking about Winter setting in, respiratory diseases, the
Winter, the cold, the impact that has. How was -- how is that impacting, you know, the last few months and just over a year of war, of course, the
lack of basic nutrition, medical care on top of already the horrific conditions you've just outlined there and the relentless bombing too.
WATERIDGE: The latest United Nations report says that 69 percent of structures in the Gaza Strip have been damaged or destroyed. So, that means
1.9 million people we're estimating are not in safe structures. They're not in any kind of sheltering. And that is what the humanitarian response needs
to provide.
We're not able to do that because we still have to prioritize food. Humanitarians are put in a situation where because there are not -- not
enough aid is being facilitated into the Gaza Strip, we're having to prioritize food over shelter, because just last week, there were women
crushed at a bakery waiting for a piece of bread.
That is how desperate the food situation is. And when there's only so much aid facilitated, that is what we have to do. We have to make very hard
decisions on what we can bring in and what we prioritize for the population.
SOARES: And we saw -- we saw that, Louise, you know, we saw people being trampled to death merely trying to get a piece of bread. I mean, is this
the lowest point you've seen in the conflict so far? I mean, and this is -- it was incredibly hard to watch. But the fact that you're saying we have to
try to prioritize either shelter or food, it doesn't get much lower than this.
WATERIDGE: I mean, right now, it seems like any path that people take here, it leads to death. If it's not the bombs and the strikes, we're
seeing people, families burning alive in their tents. The doctors are telling us people are -- more people are dying now in the strikes because
there's not even structures around them to protect them from the shrapnel and the tents set on fire.
And there's nobody to come and put out the fire. There's no fire brigade here, people just burn alive. They burn alive. This is the horror that we
have. And then on top of that, you have treatable diseases that are -- that are spreading. There's not enough medicine for people, children drinking
dirty water, they're getting sick, there's Hepatitis A, there's skin infections, diarrhea spreading. It is just endless.
The amount of way that people can be killed here at the moment is just horrific. It's inhumane and it's gone on for too long. It's 14 --
SOARES: Yes --
WATERIDGE: Months of this misery. There is almost no hope here.
SOARES: Can -- I don't know if you heard before we came to you, we heard from our Jeremy Diamond, I'm not sure if you heard in that report saying,
you know, the IDF saying that -- telling Germany that the international community's response to deliver the aid, then it's saying it's a
distribution problem. What is happening to the aid?
WATERIDGE: How are you going to get aid into a place where every road has been bombed, every street has been bombed, all the warehouses have been hit
in strikes, damaged, destroyed. What -- where is the safe facilitation of aid? Where is the ability to move? People have been, you know, deprived of
everything for 14 months.
The desperation is through the roof. And not only that, criminality, looting --
SOARES: Yes --
WATERIDGE: It is lawless. There are some areas of the Gaza Strip now, it's terrifying, it's absolutely lawless because of the conditions that the
Israeli authorities have created here. Because of the siege, because of the relentless strikes and bombings. How on earth is a humanitarian response
supposed to happen in these conditions?
The logistical operations here are not very difficult. It's not a large space, and it's not a -- the biggest population that United Nations has
catered for. It is political will. Look at the --
SOARES: Yes --
WATERIDGE: Polio vaccination campaign. We were able to provide polio vaccinations to 600,000 children in two weeks because there was political
will. Why aren't we able to feed people? Why are people not having shelter?
SOARES: Where there's a will, there's a way, right? Louise, you're absolutely right. Louise, as always, really appreciate you taking the time
to speak to us, thanks, Louise. We are going to take a short break, we're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Vladimir Putin is revealing what's on his agenda for 2025 in a wide-ranging news conference that allows citizens, as
well as journalists he does every year, to ask questions directly. The Russian president says his forces are making advances along the entire
front line of Ukraine.
A positive spin, despite, of course -- coming despite a spate of recent setbacks. Have a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: Let them identify some target for destruction, say, in Kyiv. Concentrate all their air defense and missile
defense forces there, and we will strike there with Oreshnik and see what happens. We are ready for such an experiment. But is the other side ready?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is asking European leaders for more air defenses. This as Ukraine, of course, faces a
third winter of Russian airstrikes against its energy infrastructure.
And one looming factor in all of this, something that we've been discussing on the show in the war, is what actions Donald Trump will take when he
returns to the White House next month. Mr. Putin claims he has not spoken to the U.S. president-elect in over four years, but he's ready for
potential talks with Trump. This is something we heard from Putin today.
My next guest is president of the Global Situation Room, an international consulting firm, as well as a former White House director of Global
Engagement under U.S. President Barack Obama. Joining me now in London is Brett Bruen. Thank you very much, Brett. Really appreciate you being with
us.
Let me pick up with what we heard from Putin because, I mean, his conferences is, you know, always quite lengthy, some four hours. I think
sovereignty was at the heart, the messaging from -- the heart of his messaging today. But he clearly has been under pressure, facing pressure,
not just on Syria or Ukraine, economy is a huge concern, but he tried to put a spin on it. What did you make of what you heard?
[14:35:00]
BRETT BRUEN, PRESIDENT, GLOBAL SITUATION ROOM: A positive spin, despite having lost Russian territory, despite having lost a top Russian general on
the streets of Moscow. And yet, he does have momentum on the battlefield in Eastern Ukraine. He has Donald Trump coming into the White House. And, you
know, for Putin, that together represents a promising possibility.
And so, he is hoping that come January 20th, he's going to get a deal, and a deal that he can spin to the Russian people as having been worth all of
the sacrifices they made.
SOARES: And it kind of -- you know, in his opinion, he thinks that he's winning in the battlefield. I mean, at least that's what we heard today.
And perhaps, he is. I mean, Ukraine is undersupplied, right? That is sure. And even President Zelenskyy admitted to them, I'm going to quote him,
"Ukraine does not have the strength to take back all its territory that Russia has occupied."
Does this mean then that Putin has a stronger hand in negotiations, you think? How do you read this?
BRUEN: Well, let's also not forget, and I think in the Obama White House, we underestimated, as did the Biden White House, how far Putin would go for
his goals and what he has proven. This is critically important that he can outlast the west. So, he gets a deal no matter what that deal ultimately
looks like, he will have proven a point, not just for to Russians, but to other adversaries around the world, this is the model, this is the
playbook. You just have to stick it out and you too can overcome whatever the west, whether it's Washington, Brussels, London is telling you that you
have to do.
SOARES: Yes. Playing very much the long game, has he has, all along. You know, I wonder then what you think that he would accept in terms of a deal.
Because we have the Donald Trump special envoy going to Keith, I think in January, Keith Kellogg. He told this to Fox News. Have a listen, Brett.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH KELLOGG, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER TO VP MIKE PENCE: Yes, I think both sides are ready. Think of a cage fight. You've got two fighters
and both want to tap out. You need a referee to kind of separate them. And I think President Donald J. Trump can do that. I think he's got a vision to
do that. I think he's got the energy to do that, and I think he's actually got both sides who are willing to get together eventually and talk. Both
sides are saying, OK, maybe this is the time we need to step back. And it's a perfect time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, it's a perfect time. I mean, I wonder what you are hearing in terms of deals, because one suggestion that is being floated is that
Ukraine potentially relinquishes the territory that Russia has, I think it's roughly 20 percent, in exchange for NATO control in the rest of the
country. Is that something that Putin would agree to?
BRUEN: As a recovering diplomat, I can say with experience, deals always look far easier from the outside than on the inside. And if Trump famously
said that he'll have a deal done in a day, I don't think we're going to even see it done within a week.
But what does the deal look like? It essentially involves Russia getting to keep some portion of the 20 percent of Ukrainian territory that they've
taken. I would say it's probably Crimea plus something within Luhansk, a bridge over to Crimea from Russia. And then it's a question of what
percentage.
Now, Zelenskyy has smartly taken some Russian territory, and now with this week's attack on a Russian general, what he has proven is he's added
another negotiating point, that he can say, OK, fine, I want territory back, and in exchange, I will agree that we will not engage in further
assassination plots, that for Putin will be important so that he can show that he has gotten that element of safety back to Moscow.
SOARES: Brett, this idea of NATO then having oversight, being under the NATO umbrella, the rest of Ukraine, I mean, that goes against everything
that Putin, you know, has fought against in terms of his argument all along.
BRUEN: And I think this is the point that he is going to push hardest on. He does not want any NATO presence in Ukraine. And I think, ultimately,
Zelenskyy and the west are going to have to give that up. The notion that Ukraine will ever, in -- you know, the near future, get into NATO is a
nonstarter.
SOARES: So, what, give that up? What then is Ukraine left with?
BRUEN: This is the problem. Well, here's the thing. Ukraine, going back to when they gained independence from the Soviet Union and gave up their
nuclear weapons was told in exchange they would be defended by the west, which we clearly have abandoned and gone back on that promise.
So, I think, unfortunately, Ukraine is stuck in this terrible position. And having been in the White House when Russia first invaded Ukraine and gone
through Minsk one, Minsk two, which were these deals that Russia then -- you know, as soon as the ink was dry on them, was out violating. I don't
think we can expect -- I don't think Zelenskyy expects that Putin will honor any agreement that he signs.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: And that's perhaps why we have seen European leaders getting their ducks in a row, really trying the conversation, the arguments have
intensified here in Europe in terms of how do we protect Ukraine.
Before we go, because we are running out of time, I need to ask you about Syria. We've heard Secretary Blinken talking about al-Jolani, saying he's
not confident that he will protect minorities. And he also said something we've heard from Europeans that they would judge them on not their words,
but their deeds. How do you see the Trump administration dealing with Jolani and HTS?
BRUEN: Well, I think, unfortunately, as Trump has said in social post, you know, let them fight it out. And then lessen until the U.S., as well as
obviously European allies, go in a major way in a way that we did not with Afghanistan, instead we pulled out. I think Syria and the new Syrian
government is going to see that the west isn't really a reliable partner. And so, why do we make compromises on what got us into power if we can't
expect that Trump's going to do anything for us?
SOARES: And that raises question about American influence and allies, whether they should have those strong alliance. It goes against everything,
of course, that President Biden has been fighting hard for. Brett, really great to have you on the show.
BRUEN: Great to be with you.
SOARES: Thanks very much for coming in. And still to come tonight, another possible legal victory for Donald Trump. And this time he involves the
Georgia prosecutor in his 2020 election interference case. We'll explain that next.
And then, desperate efforts underway to avert a U.S. government shutdown. We are here again, I know. A live report from Capitol Hill is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: In the U.S. State of Georgia, an appeals court has disqualified the prosecutor in the 2020 election interference case against Donald Trump.
Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, is no longer allowed to remain on the case. And the court says it has found, quote, "significant
appearance of impropriety," but is not dismissing the case entirely.
For months now, Trump and some of his co-defendants have been trying to get Willis disqualified because of a romantic relationship she had with Nathan
Wade, the special prosecutor Willis hired, of course, to help handle the case.
Let's get more on all this. Katelyn Polantz has been tracking the story and joins us now from our Washington bureau. And this is certainly, I mean, a
significant development, quite a fall from grace too. Just explain -- give us some more meat here on why they have decided to disqualify her now.
[14:45:00]
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's been questions around District Attorney Fani Willis and her handling of
this case for some time now, because she had a relationship with the top prosecutor in the office who was prosecuting the case against Donald Trump
and more than a dozen others, this racketeering conspiracy case.
She and that prosecutor, Nathan Wade, they went on trips. He paid for some things. But when a trial judge looked closely at it and had her even
testify on the stand, he learned from her that she did not believe that these gifts were anything that would have benefited her in the case.
So, the judge looked at this issue at the trial level and that judge, Scott McAfee, said, you know, she can continue on. Nathan Wade needs to step down
from this case against Donald Trump. It'll continue on into appeals. And then, now, the Georgia Court of Appeals is looking at what that trial level
judge did and said he made the wrong call. Actually, because there was such a significant appearance of impropriety by the district attorney, she needs
to be pulled off of this case.
The bigger impact here is that it's essentially the death rattle for this case against Donald Trump in the State of Georgia related to the 2020
election. That's because Willis is the person who was leading it and will have to be replaced. And it's totally unclear how long it will take for
that replacement process to happen. And even if the next person assigned to be in charge of this case would want to continue it against Donald Trump.
Now, Willis is appealing this ruling today. There's another level of appeals courts above the Georgia Court of Appeals in that state. But it
really is a moment that Donald Trump is solidifying his opposition, his wins across the board on criminal cases. He's gotten rid of the two federal
cases by winning the presidency and now, the Georgia Court of Appeals is solidifying that this case Fani Willis brought in Fulton County, Georgia
against Trump and others, it's not going to continue on right now.
SOARES: Katelyn Polantz, thanks for laying it all down for us. Thank you.
Now, staying in the U.S. Chaos and drama on Capitol Hill in what may be a preview of what's to come when the next administration takes office. House
Republican lawmakers are racing to cobble together a temporary spending plan as the clock ticks down to a U.S. government shutdown that's happening
this weekend. And it comes after billionaire Elon Musk and Donald Trump tanked a bipartisan bill that would have provided temporary funding. The
president-elect is also introducing an explosive new demand, telling lawmakers they must raise the debt ceiling as well.
House Democrats, meanwhile, are resisting Trump's demands, with one calling the idea to increase the borrowing limit ridiculous.
I want to go to our Sunlen Serfaty, who has the very latest. So, Sunlen, just lay it all out for us. Where does this spending bill go from here,
given this?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's all very fluid and at this moment in time on Capitol Hill, there is no path forward. So,
that is essentially up in the air where this all ends. Now, lawmakers are of course barreling towards that midnight Friday into Saturday morning
deadline for the government to shut down if they do not reach a spending deal.
So, lawmakers have been huddling in a series of closed-door meetings all day really trying to hash out different plans. And as of now, they have not
come out with one plan that can satisfy both demands. And from Republicans, Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, he is hopeful to put forward a proposal
that they're kind of coalescing in the leadership ranks around a clean CR, a clean spending bill, a clean debt limit raise, it would have things like
a disaster relief and aid for farms, but not all of the provisions that Democrats originally agreed to.
So, as you noted, that's risky to put forward because he is going to lose Democrats' support and he needs that in order to get this over the finish
line. So, they are in this tight rope of a moment on Capitol Hill, was so much up in the air and so little time to actually achieve that and the 11th
hour request by President-Elect Donald Trump and Elon Musk and others certainly torpedoed the negotiations that took months previously to get to
this point. So, lawmakers are scratching their heads and worried about the very real potential of a possible government shutdown.
SOARES: On that last point, Sunlen, I mean, what has been the reaction to this hold up by Musk?
SERFATY: Frustration. There's a lot of frustration, especially, of course, among Democrats here, noting that an unelected person can have so much sway
in this process, and a lot of people are saying, well, this is potentially a little preview, in essence, of what this new era of government will be,
that you have someone who is a very close ally and confidant to President- Elect Trump, but someone who has an outsized influence on Capitol Hill.
[14:50:00]
Some even on Capitol Hill, some House Republicans even suggesting that Elon Musk should -- his name should be put out there for the next speaker of the
house when they elect a new speaker in January. That person does not need to be a sitting member of Congress.
So, it shows that this is a new day in Washington and certainly will be a different time period that many of them will have to go through.
SOARES: Speaker of the house. My, my. Sunlen, I'll keep a straight face. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.
SERFATY: Thanks.
SOARES: Now, you may not know it based on his public appearance, or lack thereof, I should say, but Joe Biden is still the U.S. president, and he
will be for the next month. After keeping an extraordinarily low profile in recent weeks, he's now speaking out.
In an interview at the White House that was just released with an independent news network, the president said he will attend Donald Trump's
inauguration. But perhaps most surprisingly, after campaigning for years that Trump is a grave threat to U.S. democracy, here is what Mr. Biden says
now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The fact that he doesn't abide by the rules of democracy we've established is not my concern. My job is to make a
transition workable and available.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Joe Biden there. We have been bringing you the latest updates throughout the week here on the Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu. It's now
recovering, of course, from a powerful earthquake. And the number of dead and those still missing is still very much unclear. Search crews have
reportedly arrived from Australia, New Zealand, and France to assist.
Most of the quake's damage is centered in the capital of Port Vila. And there have been some landslides reported near the epicenter too. A near
total collapse of Vanuatu's phone service has hampered efforts to find people. As promised, we will, of course, stay across the story for you.
And still to come tonight, we found out what good news that the Irish prime minister is bringing to children across the country. That is just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And a very important announcement coming from Taoiseach Simon Harris yesterday, just in the nick of time. Have a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON HARRIS, IRISH PRIME MINISTER: I'm here in the office and I'm about to sign the authorization for Santa Claus to visit all of the homes in
Ireland on Christmas Eve. And this authorization here will allow Santa to enter Irish airspace, will allow him to have access to any airports or
airfields that he requires on Christmas Eve, so they can get all of the presents to all of the boys and girls right across the country. So, I want
to wish every boy and girl a Merry Christmas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: That is right. Santa Claus is in fact coming to town for the children of Ireland thanks to this official authorization you saw there
giving him the green light to enter Irish airspace on the 24th of December as long as everyone stays on the nice list.
And speaking of lists or books, if you still need to do your Christmas shopping, well, book is always a good idea. And maybe you can take some
inspiration from my team and our Book Club and our gifting guide this year. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the book I'm gifting. I'm gifting it because I loved her first series and I was really interested that she started
writing this series when she was only 16 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the book I'm gifting this Christmas. It's by Clive Myrie, the BBC News reader and presenter, and it's all about his life
and childhood and what shapes his thinking and influences on the world. I really recommend it to any aspiring journalist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the book I'm gifting. It's "The Marriage Portrait" by Maggie O'Farrell. It's a great recommendation for anyone who
likes a historical read and also a little bit of drama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: That's from a team shot by myself. And that does it for us from myself and the entire team. If I show you the control room, that's Laura
and Kate, and where is it, Paul is there, and the entire team here at ISD, Happy Holidays.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
