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Isa Soares Tonight

Trump To Meet Netanyahu At The White House for Ceasefire Talks; Shooting At A School In Sweden Leaves Multiple People Dead; EU Seeks A Path To Negotiate With Trump To Avoid A Tariff Fight; Trump Pauses Canada And Mexico Tariffs; FBI Bracing For A Massive Purge; Trump To Shut Down Department Of Education; Senate Panel Approves RFK Jr. Nomination; Finnish FM Talks Tariffs, Trump, And Ukraine; Thousands Leaving Santorini. Aired 2- 3p ET

Aired February 04, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, holding court and charging forward.

President Trump set to meet with Israeli Prime Minister at the White House as his administration works to radically reshape the U.S. government. We

have the very latest for you.

And a shooting at a school in Sweden leaves multiple people dead. We have the latest. Plus, Europe is ready to negotiate with the U.S. on tariffs.

The Finnish Foreign Minister tells me how her country is preparing. We start though, this hour with breaking news in Sweden, where police say

around ten people have been killed in a school shooting and the attack happened in the central city of Orebro, west of the capital Stockholm.

It's believed the shooter is among the dead. The killings took place at a school for adults, but it's located on a campus that also teaches children.

Several other people were injured and authorities are trying to determine a motive. Our Melissa Bell is across the story and joins us now. And Melissa,

from what I understand, the police held a presser just a short time ago. Give us a sense of what you are learning and what they are saying.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They did. We've also just now been hearing, Isa, from the Prime Minister and the Justice

Minister with more details about what they believe happened today. The Swedish Prime Minister calling it the worst shooting in Sweden's -- mass

shooting in Sweden's history.

However, what they explained also was that they believe the suspect is amongst the dead, but they know very little about his motives. We had heard

earlier from the police who gave us an idea of just how deadly this attack had been.

SOARES: Well, we don't seem to have that -- apologies --

BELL: Well, what we hear from the police for the time being is that they believe that around ten people have died. Sadly, what they're saying, Isa,

is that this is a death toll that could continue to rise. We understand there are several people still in hospital. We don't know much about the

identities of those who died.

The Swedish Prime Minister and Justice Ministers have just been saying that they're carrying out now the difficult work of trying to figure out exactly

who is amongst the victims, but also urging people to allow the police to do their work. As we understand that there are several searches going on

around this area to try and see, no doubt, more about the suspect's home. But they're not saying anything about who it might have been.

SOARES: Yes, and I understand that about six people or so have been taken to the hospital fairly stages at this point, but we are guessing, do we

know any more about how they're doing, Melissa?

BELL: We don't. We know that several of them are in hospital, five of them with gunshot wounds, and I think that's why the police are really urging

this caution when it comes to the numbers. It was just after mid-day and some of these classes were taking place, not just in that adult learning

center, but of course, the schools for children that you mentioned in the very same campus.

So, of course, the scenes of chaos that would have ensued as the gunman went about the killings would have involved the evacuation of both schools

and a great deal of panic. It is really only now that we're getting a better idea of what happened even if we don't know for the time being why

it happened.

This is, of course, a country, Isa, that in which school shootings, mass shootings are exceedingly rare. So, there's a great deal of shock being

felt nationwide.

SOARES: And I know you'll stay across the story for us. Our thoughts, of course, and prayers are with everyone in Orebro. Thank you very much,

Melissa, appreciate it. We will stay across the story of course, and any developments we'll bring it to you. In the meantime, we are keeping this

hour close-eye on the White House right now where with the stroke of a pen, the U.S. President is expected to begin the process of eliminating a

significant source of funding for schools and colleges throughout the United States.

Sources telling CNN that President Trump is set to sign another series of executive orders including one that will kick-start his administration's

efforts to shut down the Department of Education. The President along with Elon Musk have made it clear that they plan to abolish the agency,

something that will need approval from Congress.

And those executive orders comes just before Mr. Trump hosts a critical meeting at the White House that could have repercussions right across the

Middle East.

[14:05:00]

The U.S. President is welcoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today, his first meeting with a foreign leader since his inauguration. Mr.

Netanyahu says Israel's wars have changed the face in the Middle East, and he hopes Mr. Trump can help, quote "further re-draw the map", and he may

find a willing partner.

Mr. Trump has repeatedly suggested cleaning out -- his words, Gaza and sending Palestinians there to Egypt and Jordan. The leaders are expected to

discuss a ceasefire, the hostage deal as well as Israeli normalization efforts with Saudi Arabia and ways, of course, to counter Iran, no doubt.

Let's get more from our Kevin Liptak who joins us at the White House. And Kevin, we'll speak about Prime Minister Netanyahu and what we can expect to

come out of that meeting. First, though, talk us through these executive orders and what we may be looking at when it comes to education here.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right, and the President is scheduled to start signing these orders this hour. You know, it has been

the practice of this White House to not say specifically what the President is signing until we literally see him there in the Oval Office with the pen

in the hand. I think it gives you a sense of how many of these actions the President feels he needs to get through in the first 100 days of his

presidency.

And as you mentioned, this order to dismantle potentially the Department of Education is one of them. And it just sort of follows this practice by this

White House to try and completely reshape the federal government, in part to make it more streamlined, in part to what they claim is to save funding.

But I think you will hear in your choruses of outrage from members of Congress.

Of course, these federal agencies have been created through statute, and Congress is not normally willing to sit by and watch as the executive

branch sort of overtakes them on things that they put into place. And so, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. So far, Congress has not

been a forceful presence in this early -- in these early days of the Trump administration.

But as Trump continues to try and put his stamp on the federal workforce and on the federal government at large, it will be interesting to see how

far they're willing to go to try and flex their own muscles.

SOARES: Yes, so, it would need approval then of Congress, I mean, is there a way that he can -- can he circumvent this legally here?

LIPTAK: Well, I think that's a question that a lot of people in Washington are asking right now. And I think it's been clear from all of the executive

orders or at least many of them that the President has signed until now that he is willing to walk all the way up to the legal edge, potentially

diving over the cliff, risking injunctions and court orders, taking these things all the way to the Supreme Court.

At this stage, I don't think we've seen enough of what exactly this order would contain to say, whether it is in a legal bounce, so, we'll have to

see exactly what the text says. But certainly, the White House is intent on dramatically reshaping that department, if not eliminating it altogether.

SOARES: And I'll stay -- of course, I know you'll stay across this from -- on -- from the White House. We are waiting for that to happen. In the

meantime, in less than what? Two hours or so, as we mentioned, Kevin, we're expected to see President Trump meet with Prime Minister Netanyahu. This as

negotiations are beginning for the second phase of the ceasefire agreement.

What is Prime Minister Netanyahu looking to get out of this meeting? Because I heard from a source saying that it may be an epic -- their words,

epic meeting here.

LIPTAK: Yes, I saw that. And I think it's clear that Netanyahu is looking to ascertain exactly where Trump stands on the remainder of this hostage

and ceasefire deal. As you mentioned, the talks to begin phase two are set to begin this week. But I don't think it's necessarily explicitly clear to

Netanyahu or to the rest of the world exactly how Trump wants to proceed.

Of course, he took partial credit for this deal in the days before he was inaugurated. He says he wants the hostages come out -- to come out. He says

he wants the war there to end. But it was interesting to hear from him last night in the Oval Office, he says that he has no assurances that this deal

will hold.

And I think if you're Prime Minister Netanyahu, you want to get more about where exactly Trump stands, because of course, Netanyahu is facing

competing pressures here. Obviously, members of his right-wing coalition want him to scrap this temporary truce altogether. But certainly, war

weary, Israelis want to see the fighting come to an end permanently.

And that's not even to mention, you know, the corruption trial that Netanyahu is facing, the warrant that's out for his arrest by the

International Criminal Court. He is facing pressures from all sides, and I think he wants to make sure before he moves ahead that he's on the same

page as Donald Trump. It was interesting to hear from officials earlier today talking about those comments that the President made earlier this

month about cleaning out Gaza and potentially returning or moving the Palestinians who live there to Egypt and Jordan.

[14:10:00]

They tried to add some clarity to that. They said that the President views it as a demolition site and that, in his view, it could take 10 to 15 years

to rebuild, Isa.

SOARES: A busy day for you, Kevin. In fact, a busy two weeks so far it has been for you, appreciate Kevin Liptak for us. As soon as there's any more

details on those executive orders, Kevin, we will get back to you at the White House. Appreciate it. And staying in the Middle East, the Palestinian

Authority is urging the U.S. to intervene in the West Bank, where it says Israel is attempting to carry out ethnic cleansing.

It warns the situation could spiral in an uncontrollable manner and, quote, "everyone could pay the price." The United Nations now says all residents

of the Jenin refugee camp have fled their homes. That's some 30,000 people, by the way, amid a major Israeli offensive that has destroyed hundreds of

residential units.

And these images that we're showing you shows Israeli detonations of entire buildings in the camp. Just over the weekend, the Palestinian Health

Ministry says more than 40 people have been killed across the West Bank since the operation began. Israel says it's going after terrorists and

terrorist infrastructure.

Now, Benjamin Netanyahu is not the only leader Donald Trump might be speaking to on Tuesday, or waiting for news about a possible phone call

between the U.S. President and Chinese leader Xi Jinping. On Monday, Mr. Trump said he expected it to happen, if you remember, within 24 hours.

Beijing has yet to confirm any call, and it comes after China hit back against President Trump's broad based 10 percent tariffs now in effect with

its own targeted tariffs on American goods and export restrictions on dozens of metal products. China's tariffs are set to take effect next week.

And the EU says it is ready for tough negotiations with the U.S. after President Trump warned he could slap tariffs on the bloc next. Well,

earlier, I sat down with Finland's Foreign Minister, I asked her what she makes of trade wars between the U.S. and its allies, and how Europe may be

preparing here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: I need to ask you about the tariffs that we have seen kind of ended -- tariff war ended before even begun. And with -- we saw Canada, we've

also seen Mexico, now it seems that President Trump is eyeing Europe. I think we've got a little clip that I want to play from President Trump on

this. Have a listen Foreign Minister.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have massive deficits with the European Union. Massive like $350 billion, if you can believe it. They

don't take our farm product, they don't take our cars, they don't take almost anything, but we take their cars. We have millions of cars coming

in, BMW and Mercedes Benz and Volkswagen and just so many different cars, and we don't do anything about that.

And we don't charge them tariffs. They make it impossible to sell cars in the European Union. They make it very difficult agricultural product. They

actually don't take it, and they have a lot of excuses. They don't take anything. So, the European has abused the United States for years and they

can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: So, Europe has abused the United States for years. What do you make of that comment? Do you agree with that statement, Foreign Minister?

ELINA VALTONEN, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS, FINLAND: I don't agree with that statement. First of all, if we look at the trade balance in services,

actually the United States is massively in surplus towards the European Union the other way around certainly in goods. But those -- both balances

almost even each other out.

And plus, the European Union is larger investor in America than the other way around. But I have another pitch and I -- you know, I'd like to propose

a deal. Why don't we slash all trade barriers, zero tariffs, nothing between the EU and the U.S., and let our economies prosper, let our

businesses do trade, well, both in traditional goods, whichever goods, of course, military equipment as well in services which especially now in

digital world and A.I. world becomes ever so important. And also of course, exchange capital, also human capital --

SOARES: Yes, indeed --

VALTONEN: Which is extremely important. So --

SOARES: Look, it seems that EU, from the meetings they've had yesterday, meetings ongoing today as well in Brussels, are preparing for whatever may

come. Do you have a sense, Foreign Minister, at what industries, sectors that President Trump will be targeted -- possibly targeting here? Are we

looking at automotive industry, and if so, is Europe going to relent in the same way that Mexico and Canada as the White House Press Secretary said

Canada is bending the knee just like Mexico. Is Europe going to bend the knee?

VALTONEN: Tariffs would hurt the United States. Tariffs would hurt Europe. We saw already the market reaction, that's certainly not something what

Trump wants to have as his legacy.

[14:15:00]

If this isn't just a negotiation tactic, we are up for negotiations. Happy to take those. But again, my message is, this -- there's so much we can do

together across the Atlantic, and I think we need each other more now than ever before.

SOARES: And this is your -- this is your ally, a friend. This is not an enemy. Does it surprise you that we are here?

VALTONEN: The only thing I'm saying is that putting up tariffs certainly hurts the country or the region. You're putting up the tariff against, but

it also hurts American hardworking people.

SOARES: Yes --

VALTONEN: The men and women on the street. And it pushes up prices. So, why even start engaging in such an effort? Why not make a common effort out of

strengthening the free world and engaging in market economy, which has made us prosper in the first place --

SOARES: Flourish, made us flourish all over --

VALTONEN: First place, yes --

SOARES: The world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Finland's Foreign Minister there. She also told me about how President Trump's crackdown on USAID is impacting the frontlines in

Ukraine, and how Europe is working to make up for that shortfall. That's all coming up in about 20 minutes right here on the show. You do not want

to miss that conversation. And still to come tonight, is the Trump administration considering an offer to house criminals including those who

are U.S. citizens in El Salvador's notorious mega prison?

We'll have the latest from the U.S. Secretary of State's visit to Central America. And then FBI employees are now filing a class action lawsuit

against the Justice Department. Details ahead on the chaotic shake-up happening for major U.S. agencies. Both of those stories after this very

short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is expected to arrive in Guatemala soon. The latest stop on his tour of Central America this week.

Rubio said Monday that El Salvador had offered to accept U.S. deportees along with violent convicted criminals, even if they are U.S. citizens.

A short time ago in Costa Rica, Rubio called the offer, quote, "incredible", and said the administration would study it. Under the deal,

those convicts would be jailed at El Salvador's notorious mega prison, a move which would almost certainly bring legal challenges.

[14:20:00]

Our David Culver got a look at the conditions inside the facility known as the Terrorism Confinement Center. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): There's no mattresses. There's no sheets. You've got a toilet over here, for them to

go to the bathroom, you've got this basin here that they use to bathe themselves. And then you can see here, there's a barrel of water that they

can drink from.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Gives you a bit of a taste of what we're talking about we're looking at these jails. We're joined now by CNN contributor Stefano

Pozzebon in Bogota in Colombia. And Stefano, we'll speak about Secretary Rubio's trip in Central America in just a moment. But first, let me just

pick up, we played that little clip from the prisons, of course, from our reporting earlier in the year. Give us a sense of what El Salvador is

looking to get out of this, or is it just simply money here?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think it's just money, Isa. However, we have to say that the money part is considerable. I don't expect

the fee that Bukele is demanding the White House to house those criminals to be insubstantial. El Salvador, like many other countries in Latin

America receive millions of dollars every year, thanks to remittances from their own migrant population in the States.

Well, if Trump follows through with those plans to deport most of them, there is likely to be a recession. So, Bukele is probably looking at some

considerable sums to beef up the local economy in El Salvador. But I think that this plays very much, Isa, into Bukele's narrative, on his image,

self-portrayed image as a tough on crime President, a tough on crime leader in a region that is dealing with record level of crimes and the challenges

to the security.

We have seen it as a legacy of the pandemic. Well, he -- Bukele has proposed, has made a pitch, and that was jail as many people as possible.

Several thousands of those that we have seen inside this court, the Center of Confinement of Terrorism are actually innocent because in Salvador, you

can detain people just on the allegation, just on the presumption of being part of a gang.

So, of course, this approach has been justified in El Salvador, thanks to a state of emergency that Bukele has passed over two years ago, and that has

been renewed ever since. Now, the idea that the United States would send criminals to be housed in those precincts, in those facilities, opens a

whole set of new legal questions, of course, Isa.

SOARES: Yes, indeed, legal questions. How would this work? But also the human rights concerns. And there are plenty, as you and I have discussed

before -- I want to leave El Salvador and Bukele just on the side for just a moment, because we also saw the Secretary of State visiting Costa Rica,

Guatemala later. I mean, what will both sides be looking to get out of this meeting?

POZZEBON: I think Guatemala is an interesting country to look at, Isa. It's definitely the country that I was most interested in when the Secretary of

State announced its agenda, because the President of Guatemala has arrived on the scene and was able to take office, thanks to the direct investment,

thanks to the direct support of the previous White House administration.

It was Kamala Harris as vice president and Jake Sullivan, who used to serve as a western hemisphere person on the National Security Council that

traveled to Guatemala, met with President Arevalo, and were able to show the region that Arevalo had the support of Washington in order to take

power after a very controversial election.

I'm interested in how he will deal with the Secretary of State, because the previous visits to El Salvador, Panama and Costa Rica are all -- were all

to the countries that are ruled by right-wing heads of state, people who get along pretty well with either the MAGA movement or just in general

conservatism. And we have seen that the White House is already clashing big time with progressive leaders in southern -- in Central and South America.

Take Mexico, for example, of course, Colombia, where we had that diplomatic impasse, for lack of a better word, last week, and Brazil. So, I think that

Guatemala is a very interesting point because they're treading a very fine line in saying we can, of course, disagree on many things with this White

House. But of course, we want to be working together.

And of course, they can't afford to lose the support of Washington or to get into Washington's way the same way that, for example, Brazil or

Colombia can geopolitically. So, I think that will be very interesting. I was speaking with the sources and officials in Guatemala over the last two

weeks, the pitch that they really want to make clear to the Secretary of State is that Guatemala will not stand in the way of deportations and is

working to try to make the most of this deportation, trying to get a benefit and opportunities out of these populations, moving back towards

Central America. So, it will be a very interesting conversation --

SOARES: Yes --

POZZEBON: Between Rubio and President Bernardo Arevalo in Guatemala over the next day or so. Isa?

[14:25:00]

SOARES: A fascinating meeting, no doubt with the left-leaning leader, of course, to see whether they'll agree on anything at this point. Stefano,

appreciate your insight, thank you very much. Good to see you, Stefano.

POZZEBON: Thank you.

SOARES: Now, the deadline has passed for FBI leaders to turn over names of employees who worked on cases involving the January the 6th riot. We have

the details ahead. And the FBI is not alone in facing major shake-ups. We'll break down all of the U.S. agencies that are in the crosshairs of the

new Trump administration. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Welcome back everyone. We are less than three weeks into Donald Trump's second term, and already Washington is facing what could become a

major restructuring. Let me just show you what we have seen just in the first two and a half weeks or so. USAID, we've seen restructuring there,

we've seen restructure of the FBI.

We are potentially looking at restructuring education. We're waiting for that executive order some point this hour. We have seen tariffs, of course,

10 percent tariffs on China has gone into effect, threats of tariffs here and here then paused, and also tariff threat for Colombia and even talking

potential tariff threat for Europe.

So, let me break this all down for you. The Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, said on Monday he was now the acting administration for USAID before

telling Congress, the Trump ally, Pete Marocco will be taking over. This amid concerns the President with an assist, of course, from Elon Musk wants

to shut down the humanitarian agency.

[14:30:00]

SOARES: Meanwhile, focusing on the FBI here, senior FBI leaders had until noon Eastern Time today to turn over names of bureau employees involved in

January 6th capital riot cases. FBI employees have filed a class action lawsuit against the Trump Justice Department, alleging the service sent to

agents are part of a purge.

And then on top of that, the Trump administration has already begun drafting an executive order, and this is what relates to education

restructuring here, that would kick off the process of eliminating the Department of Education. All of this, of course, put into context just in

the first two and a half weeks, while the U.S. faces growing tensions over tariffs with some of its biggest trading partners, as you can see out here.

So, we have a lot to break down with all these federal shakeups. I want to bring in CNN's security correspondent and former FBI agent Josh Campbell,

who joins me live from Los Angeles. And, Josh, let's just focus, first of all, on the FBI and what you are learning in terms of the Justice

Department's demand. What more are you learning from on -- from what you're hearing this hour?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, a significant development. We've been waiting to see whether the FBI would actually comply with the

demand from the U.S. Justice Department. These are Trump administration appointed officials demanding the FBI turn over the list of information

about employees that work that sprawling January 6th Capitol riot investigation, which, of course, all started on January 6, 2021.

Now, it appears that the FBI, we're being told, did actually provide that information, handing over information that was collected. And you know, I'm

told by one source that this is somewhat preliminary in nature, because the FBI was only given a very short period of time to try to gather all of this

information. We're told thousands, over 5,000 people that were involved in this major investigation. And so, we're told now that that information has

now been handed over.

But of course, the big question that I'm hearing from FBI sources is to what end? They believe that this is only headed in one direction, and that

is the Trump administration trying to amass a list of people at the FBI to fire, much like terminations that we've seen at other agencies.

During the campaign for presidential election, he obviously made clear about his disdain for certain FBI investigations. But the thing that we're

talking about here is that these aren't political appointees at the FBI, these are career agents and analysts and professional staff members who now

may be impacted.

And finally, I'll point out that we are getting word now that there have been a number of lawsuits filed here in the U.S. by FBI employees trying to

stop any firings, trying to prevent the Trump administration and the Justice Department from actually releasing publicly the names of FBI

employees. And the big problem there is that they're afraid that they could become targets.

It's not theoretical. We've seen in the past, FBI employees that worked cases involving Donald Trump, threatened, harassed, their family members

harassed. Certainly, something that they're taking serious. And now, Isa, we're learning just in the last hour, they're now taken to the courts.

SOARES: Incredibly troubling and nerve-racking, of course, for all these employees. And obviously, the security aspect of this is very important.

Josh, appreciate you staying on top of the story for us.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

SOARES: Thanks very much.

CAMPBELL: Thanks.

SOARES: Well, my next guest is a Democratic congressman from Virginia, Suhas Subramaniam, joins us now from Washington. Congressman, thank you

very much for taking the time to speak to us on the show.

Let me pick up with really what we're leading off the top of this hour, which is these executive orders that we are expecting at some point to come

from this administration, executive orders, including the dismantle of the Department of Education. Your reaction, sir.

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): You know, right now there's this effort to downsize the government, and what they're actually doing is dumb sizing it.

They're making it so that we're getting rid of really, really highly qualified federal employees who run this country and help us get food to

kids who are hungry, help us get programs that are essential to our military, essential to our economy up and running and running smoothly

regardless of who's president. So, this is work and this is an effort that could do damage for many, many years if it's implemented.

SOARES: And I'm not sure, Congressman, whether you heard my introduction there. We're only two and a half weeks or so into this administration, and

already we've seen President Trump and Elon Musk pretty much barreling full speed into these government agencies that you have just mentioning that.

We mentioned USAID. Obviously, we've seen as well education and FBI, as we heard from my Josh Campbell. This is creating so much confusion, so much

chaos. Just give us a sense of what you've been hearing from employees, because I know you had a town hall. Give us a sense of what they have been

telling you, Congressman.

SUBRAMANYAM: You know, we had a town hall yesterday and we expected about 50 people, maybe 100 to show up. We had hundreds. We lost count of the

number of people. We had an overflow room in the lobby of the building and people didn't leave, they stayed because they're scared, they're angry,

they're hurt. Many federal workers, they don't care who's president. They just want to do the work for the people.

[14:35:00]

And it's not even about themselves. They can go get good work in the private sector. They're worried for our country right now. And the

ramifications of what's happening. USAID is a great example. It helps make this country and this planet safer with the work that they do. And by

actually cutting off funding and cutting off that program, we're all less safe. And there's more extremism that could develop from it because of the

desperation of the people USAID serves.

So, as the, you know, ranking member of the Oversight Subcommittee on military and foreign affairs, I'm going to call for a hearing. I want

answers on what's going on, why this is happening, and what we can do about it.

SOARES: And on that point, Congressman, you are -- you know, you are on the Oversight Committee, how -- have you been briefed at all? Had this caught

you by surprise, not just the fact that it's happening, but the speed in which this is happening? Are you being briefed at all from DOGE?

SUBRAMANYAM: You know, first, this shouldn't be a surprise to people. You know, President Trump tried to convince people that Project 2025 wasn't his

agenda. He said, that's not what I want to do. And he didn't talk about this issue very much on the campaign trail. So, this is not why people

elected him. So, I'll start with that.

But yes, you know, a lot of the information I'm getting is actually from the people that I serve, the federal workers and the federal employees and

contractors who are telling you what's going on. I mean, it's some of the most bizarre stories you'll ever hear. But more than that, we're not

getting much information at all.

In fact, I tried to go into USAID building yesterday and I was turned away. Now, I'm going to go to the Treasury Department building and see if they

turn me away. They're turning away members of Congress and the people that work in those buildings, but they're not turning away the DOGE people.

They're not turning away the administration people. It's just very just -- I'm just puzzled by this whole situation.

And a lot of people have asked me, what are you going to do about it? And I said, everything I possibly can. And so, that's what our plan is.

SOARES: What are we likely to see from the Democrats at this stage? What are you advising those federal workers? Is this going to be through the

courts? I mean, we heard for the executive order potentially on dismantling education. That needs approval from Congress. Is there a way that President

Trump can go around this?

SUBRAMANYAM: Well, we're going to make crystal clear that the administration cannot infringe upon the balance of power in this country.

Congress has its duties, it has the power of the purse, and it has the power to pass statutes and implement them. And the implementation of them

is the job of the executive branch. They're overstepping their bounds.

And so, we're going to make that clear. And we're going to also make sure that we call for hearings and we do everything that we can to investigate

what's going on.

SOARES: And just help us make sense, Congressman, on this side of the pond. How is it possible that a man who is not an elected official, who's not a

federal employee, hasn't been approved by the Senate to a leadership role in government, how is he allowed, I'm talking about Elon Musk here, to

yield this much power?

SUBRAMANYAM: Yes. You know, he's not allowed to that's the reality of it. A lot of what's happening is illegal, it's unconstitutional, and it's not

allowed. But he's being enabled by this administration and by -- really by congressional Republicans who have said that, you know, we don't -- as long

-- if Trump likes it, we like it, right?

I'd like to see more Republicans start to think independently and look at this critically and understand the impact it will have, even on their own

constituents. I'd like to see more of that too. And if the job is to make government better and more efficient, those are things that are bipartisan

and Democrats can work with Republicans on that. But we will not stand for unconstitutional actions. We will not stand for illegal actions.

SOARES: Congressman, I appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much, sir.

SUBRAMANYAM: Thank you.

SOARES: Now, we're going to stay in Washington because we're also tracking key votes on Capitol Hill for two of President Trump's most controversial

nominees. Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s nomination was approved by the Senate Finance Committee today, which makes him one step closer, of course, to

leading America's public health agencies.

Kennedy's nomination now advances the Senate floor. And the Senate Intelligence Committee had just voted on Tulsi Gabbard's nomination for the

role of Director of National Intelligence.

Our Annie Grayer is keeping a close eye on these committee votes and she joins us from Washington. So, Annie, give us a sense of what is unfolding

right now and, you know, in the news of -- that we heard from the FBI, whether that has any sort of impact, of course, on Tulsi Gabbard's future

here.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN REPORTER: Well, the latest development is Tulsi Gabbard has gotten her nomination approved out of committee. It was by a narrow

vote of nine to eight, which just shows you how important each senator's vote was here. And we know Republican Senator Todd Young was weighing this

very heavily. But he spoke to Donald Trump over the weekend, and that ultimately got him to vote yes.

[14:40:00]

And so, Trump is now getting win after win on his nominees. We see with RFK Jr. Trump also got RFK Jr. over the finish line, even though Republican

Senator Bill Cassidy had serious reservations that he even raised in the confirmation hearings last week.

So, Republicans have very narrow majorities here in the Senate that really requires all of them to get in line, but we are seeing even the ones that

have had the most concerns about them publicly, even among Republican circles, when it comes to these votes, Republicans are lining up and giving

Donald Trump these wins to build out his cabinet.

SOARES: Annie, I know you'll stay across it for us. Thanks very much. Annie Grayer there on Capitol Hill.

And still to come tonight, more from my conversations with Finland's foreign minister, what she had to say about President Trump's crackdown on

USAID, and the impacts on the front lines of Ukraine. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: U.S. President Donald Trump says he'll consider providing continued aid to Ukraine and its war effort against Russia. But in exchange, Mr.

Trump says he wants the U.S. to have access to Ukraine's supply of rare earth minerals. The president has long complained about the amount the U.S.

is spending for Ukraine's war effort and wants to see Europe contribute more.

Well, earlier I spoke to Elina Valtonen, and that's Finland's foreign minister, and I asked her about the resources that President Trump wants

from U.K.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELINA VALTONEN, FINNISH FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, first of all, Russia is making only tiny advances and at very heavy losses. So, they haven't been

able to take on any strategic goals for a very long time.

Second thing, we, of course, don't want to have these minerals or those people to be left with the Russians and on the Russian side of the world.

And essentially, it's about the future of the free world. And in the free world, we -- of course, we -- you know, we base everything on the market

economy as well and on democratic decision making. And I'm still confident that the United States also cherishes such a future for Ukraine instead of

something else.

SOARES: May cherish it, but as you've seen, you know, we've seen a decision to freeze USAID, as you've seen, freeze humanitarian aid, that impacts

Ukraine. President Zelenskyy's saying that his government expects about $300 to $400 million in aid to be cut, and he's looking to Europe, his

words, to try and meet that shortfall.

[14:45:00]

Can Europe meet that shortfall at this junction when so many are already struggling, of course, to meet the 2 percent of GDP when it comes to

defense?

VALTONEN: I'm sure that Europe will be ramping up its defense expenditure and definitely will be working so much more intensely on its own deterrence

going forward as well, as part of the alliance, which has to be said, of course. And we are very strongly also supporting Ukraine not just with

military terms or military means but also, politically, economically and in so many ways.

And I'm sure that that the U.S. support will also continue because it is like already outlined. It is so important also for the U.S. that we will

have a peaceful future in Europe, because a peaceful Europe is better for the stock market as well and it's better for businesses to, you know, do

trade with.

SOARES: I mean, it strikes me that you're emphasizing stock markets because you understand, like so many foreign ministers I've spoken to, understand

the nature of the new U.S. president, that he is a transactional president. It's very clear from what we have seen so far.

We've heard from him that this is a ridiculous war. We heard from him before he became president that he was going to end the war in 24 hours.

What do you understand, Foreign Minister, about the negotiations and what is Europe's position and what is pushing for Ukraine, for Ukraine's part,

and what Ukraine may want to come out of this?

VALTONEN: Well, certainly there shouldn't be any negotiations on Ukraine without Ukraine. And second thing, the same applies, of course, for Europe.

For two reasons, Ukraine is an integral part of Europe, but also, if we look at Russia. Russia is -- who started the war in the first place --

well, they started it already more than 10 years ago, and now with the full-scale invasion. The goals of Russia apparently haven't gone anywhere.

And those goals, those military goals as well, those reach way beyond Ukraine.

So, effectively, Russian threats and Russian aggression doesn't end or start in Ukraine. So, therefore, of course, Europe needs to be involved in

those negotiations, but essentially, also taking a significant role in ensuring that we will have peace also going forward.

SOARES: When it -- when we're talking about Ukraine and increasing defense spending, as we heard from President Trump, the first time I think he

called for 2 percent or 3 percent, now he's calling for 5 percent, there are a significant number of countries who are close to that 5 percent or

nearing that 5 percent, but there are also, Foreign Minister, many countries who are not even meeting the 2 percent criteria. How much of a

challenge is it going to be to try and push these countries at a time, of course, we're seeing high inflation, high prices, many people feel that the

war dragged on for too long, that this will be hard to convince people across Europe?

VALTONEN: Well, people are convinced the pace hasn't been fast enough. Finland tries to lead by example. We spent 2.4 percent. But even if we have

been fulfilling their NATO criteria also for our own sake for a very long time, our point is that we should focus on the capabilities and the true

power we can put on the table and really put into operation if need be.

SOARES: Yes.

VALTONEN: And there, it's important that we fulfill the NATO criteria for the capabilities, which are, of course, fully compatible with the common

defense plans, which we have in place. And I guess as part of this exercise, we have to be ramping up our defense industry. And this only can

happen in collaboration with the Americans and certainly with the U.K. as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Thanks to the Finnish foreign minister speaking to me earlier. Still to come tonight, thousands of people are leaving the picturesque

island of Santorini. We'll have a live report from Greece to hear why so many people are concerned. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:00]

SOARES: Well, it's a sight you don't expect to see, one of the world's most famous tourist destinations empty. Thousands of residents and tourists have

left the island of Santorini in Greece after a series of earthquakes. A tremor with a magnitude of 4.8 was recorded several hours ago, and that is

just shy of this weekend's 4.9 quake. The strongest so far.

Greece's earthquake planning and protection organization believes the seismic activity could continue for a few weeks. The island receives more

than 3 million visitors a year, but only about 20,000 people are full-time residents there. Joining us now from Piraeus Port, Athens, is our -- is

journalist Elinda Labropoulou. Elinda, good to see you. Just bring us up to date with the very latest.

ELINDA LABROPOULOU, JOURNALIST: Well, I'm at the port because more people are leaving the island. So, we're waiting for more ferries bringing people

to Athens to come in. We've been told that the frequency of the earthquakes is unprecedented. There have been over 500 in just the last three days,

pushing people to the edge and leading them to leave the island. Let's take a listen at what's been happening in Santorini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LABROPOULOU (voice-over): Tourists who came looking for respite, now rushing to escape dreamlike Santorini as the Greek island trembles with

seismic activity.

Hundreds of earthquakes have struck the waters near the island since Friday. Some are hardly noticeable. Others have reached magnitudes of over

five, giving visitors and locals alike enough reason to flee.

TZANIS LIGNOS, SANTORINI RESIDENT (through translator): No one could sleep last night. Not my wife, my son, only a bit. There was a lot of noise. It

was surely a 4.9 quake. And in the house, it was really loud. We went running outside. That's why we cannot stay here any longer.

LABROPOULOU (voice-over): More than 6,000 residents have already left Santorini, while schools remain closed until at least Friday. And

authorities warn residents to avoid indoor gatherings. These measures as airlines offer extra flights out of the island. And people flock to the

ports. But as the island empties, its tremors persist.

BENI OUKLALA, SEASONAL WORKER (through translator): We're going to leave because I'm afraid. There are constantly earthquakes. We have to leave for

the kids so the kids can calm down.

LABROPOULOU (voice-over): Santorini is no stranger to earthquakes. But near constant seismic phenomena like this are rare. Even so, as thousands rush

to the mainland, others feel less inclined.

EFTICHIS DIAMANTOPOULOS, TOURIST BOAT CAPTAIN (through translator): We will stay here. Why should we leave? If something happens, it happens. Oh, well,

we are locals. We were born here.

LABROPOULOU (voice-over): Scientists say the seismic activity could last for days, if not weeks, threatening landslides and the possibility of a

larger quake. And so, an island whose geography and beauty is known to draw visitors in, for now, steers them away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LABROPOULOU (on camera): It's all very strange. This is an iconic island that people have been used to going for their holidays. And now, it seems

to have turned into a bit of a waiting game for the authorities and tourists and locals alike as the seismic activity continues. Isa.

SOARES: Elinda Labropoulou there for us from Piraeus Port. Thanks very much, Elinda.

[14:55:00]

And well, I want to update you before we leave on the breaking news we brought to you at the top of the show out of Sweden, where the prime

minister says his country has suffered the worst mass shooting in its history. Authorities say the gunman who opened the fire at school for

adults in Central Sweden is dead. Officials said earlier around 10 people, if you remember, were killed and several others were wounded. But at a news

conference, just a short time ago, an official said he couldn't report the exact death toll as investigation is underway.

Police though say the perpetrator was not known to them before the shooting and that he was not connected to any gangs. They also said they did not

believe the motive was terrorism related. So, we'll stay across that story as soon. As there any more developments, we will, of course, bring it to

you.

In the meantime, that does it for us here on the show. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Jim Sciutto is up next.

I shall see you tomorrow. Have a wonderful day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END