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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Proposes U.S. Takeover Of Gaza; Protesters Rally Against Trump's Stop-Work Order For USAID; CIA Sends Buyout Offers To Entire Workforce; Bondi Sworn In As U.S. Attorney General; Rubio Tours Central America; CNN Speaks With Guatemalan President Bernardo Arevalo; Trump's Proposal For Gaza Sparks Sharp Criticism; Gunman Kills At Least 10 People In Sweden. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 05, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, the Riviera of the Middle East. U.S.
President Donald Trump proposes clearing out and taking over Gaza, giving the Israeli Prime Minister a political lifeline in the process. The
Palestinian ambassador to the U.K. will join me here on set in just a few minutes.
Then deportations and diplomacy. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio continues his tour of Central America. The President of Guatemala joins me
live to discuss his meeting with America's chief diplomat. And Democratic lawmakers joined hundreds of USAID workers protesting in Washington
demanding President Trump restore foreign aid funding immediately.
But will it be enough? But first this hour, he ran on a pledge of no new wars. Yet only two weeks into his new term, the world is reeling from
Donald Trump's suggestion that he could send U.S. troops to take over Gaza by force. The U.S. President triggered an uproar during his meeting
yesterday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
He wants to evict millions of Palestinians from their homeland so the U.S. can take, quote, "long-term ownership of Gaza and create what he calls the
Riviera of the Middle East. He proposed permanently resettling Palestinians in Egypt, Jordan or elsewhere. And he said Palestinians would love to
leave, which is categorically false.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it, too. We'll own it. I envision a
world, people living there, the world's people. I think you'll make that into an international, unbelievable place. I think the potential in the
Gaza Strip is unbelievable.
We have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal, and I don't want to be cute. I don't want to be a wise guy. But the Riviera of
the Middle East, this could be something that could be so bad -- this could be so magnificent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, the world's people, but just not Palestinian people. Well, the far-right in Israel is overjoyed that Mr. Trump has adopted their long-
advocated, quote, "solution for Gaza". But many countries are slamming the idea as a violation of international law. Today, the White House tried to
clarify some of the most controversial suggestions. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President has not committed to putting boots on the ground in Gaza. He has also said that the
United States is not going to pay for the rebuilding of Gaza. His administration is going to work with our partners in the region to
reconstruct this region.
And let me just take a step back here, because this is an out-of-the-box idea. That's who President Trump is. That's why the American people elected
him, and his goal is lasting peace in the Middle East for all people in the region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, we've also just heard from the new Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE, UNITED STATES: So what -- he's very generous -- he's very generously has offered, is the ability of the United
States to go in and help with debris removal, help with munitions removal, help with reconstruction, the rebuilding of homes and businesses and things
of this nature, so that then people can move back in.
But in the meantime, they'll have to live somewhere. Now, the details of that, if it was accepted would have to be worked out among multiple partner
nations. It's a unique offer, you know, one that no other country in the world has stepped up and made an offer. But I think it's what people need
to think about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Democrats on Capitol Hill are condemning Mr. Trump's Gaza takeover plan, some calling it crazy, others insane. One senator told CNN,
it's like pouring gasoline on already burning fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): This is an insane proposal. And there's been a huge backlash already because the President of the United States was
saying that he would use U.S. military force if necessary, to forcibly remove 2 million Palestinians from Gaza. That's ethnic cleansing by another
name, so that it could be redeveloped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, some Republican senators are expressing reservations, saying they want to see more details, but top House Republican Mike Johnson calls
the plan, quote, "a bold move" that follows, quote, "common sense".
[14:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I think this is a good development. We have to back Israel a 100 percent. And so, whatever form that takes, we're
interested in having that discussion. But it's -- it was a surprising development, but I think it's one that we'll applaud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's bring in senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak for more. And Kevin, with the exception of the last clip we just played, there is
certainly concern and criticism over this plan, over planned remarks from the President. But is this being explored at this stage by this
administration, Kevin, as a policy or, you know, or is this simply a negotiating tactic?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, I think that's a question that even some of Trump's closest aides are trying to figure out this
morning, because at the end of the day, this wasn't necessarily something that all of them were expecting him to come out and say during that press
conference, despite the fact that it was written into his prepared remarks.
And what we've heard from American officials today is that while this is something that Trump has been talking about privately behind the scenes for
the last several weeks, it wasn't necessarily something that all of his top advisors were read in on when he came out to that podium and said it last
night.
And so, I think at this stage, what you hear from officials, and you heard it in all of those clips you played from Karoline Leavitt, the White House
spokesman, from Mike Waltz; the National Security adviser, from others who are close to the President, is trying to put some structure around this
idea that appears on its face, completely improbable and outlandish.
Now, what these officials say is that Trump was frustrated that he wasn't hearing any other options from players in the region. He didn't hear ideas
from the Saudis, from the Jordanians, from the Egyptians on how exactly Gaza would be rebuilt. And he felt it was necessary to insert this kind of
plan and this kind of idea into the conversation.
Now, when you hear officials say that, the sense you get is that this is not something that Trump thinks will ultimately end up happening. He thinks
that this will force these other players in the region to come up with their own solutions to a problem that, in Trump's view, should be theirs to
solve.
But at the same time, I think Trump is serious about making this offer and making this proposal. One thing that seemed to really affect the President
were the descriptions of Gaza that he received from his Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, who traveled to Gaza last week on something of a fact-
finding mission when he told the President what he saw, things like buildings just being destroyed and reduced to rubble, people dealing with
disease.
The President was genuinely affected by that and genuinely didn't understand why people would want to return to that as their home. Of
course, that ignores decades of conflict in the region, generations of history between the Palestinians and Gaza. And so, I think that there is an
attempt now today here at the White House to try and put some structure behind the President's idea, all with the idea that he could discuss this
further with partners in the region.
Now, I think it was very notable what we heard from the Press Secretary saying that President Trump did not commit troops, American troops, to
doing this. Yesterday, he didn't rule it out, of course, but he also didn't rule it in. And I think that gets at some of the politics behind all of
this. Of course, President Trump is someone who had long decried American intervention in the region, particularly among his fellow Republicans.
And I think that is an attempt to sort of clean that up on the political side, as this sort of resonates --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: Across Washington today.
SOARES: We also heard from the White House Press Secretary that the U.S. would be paying for it. It's not clear who exactly would be paying. And
whilst we're talking about this proposal, this -- you know, out-of-the box idea as the White House Press Secretary called it, we're not talking about
the second phase of the -- of the ceasefire negotiations. Was that even discussed?
LIPTAK: Between the President and the Prime Minister, we do understand that it was a topic of discussion, but it is hard to see how those negotiations
are going to proceed in earnest now that the President has thrown this idea into the ether, for -- I don't -- I don't understand how Hamas will return
to the negotiating table if they understand that President Trump wants to take over Gaza.
On the same side, I don't really see how Benjamin Netanyahu would feel motivated or convinced to buck his right-wing allies in his government to
go back to the negotiating table when the President has already offered them this massive win when it comes to American support --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: For Gaza. And so --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: We do understand that they -- that they discussed it. We do understand that Steve Witkoff will be in Florida this week talking with the
Qatari Prime Minister who has been a key mediator in all of this. So, the discussions are continuing, but it's very hard for me to see how they will
continue in a productive way now that this idea is out there.
[14:10:00]
SOARES: Yes, absolutely, and in just a moment, I'll speak to Ambassador Husam Zomlot; who is the head of the Palestinian Mission to the U.K. for
his reaction. Thank you very much, Kevin, appreciate it. Let me go then to Tel Aviv, that's where we find our Jeremy Diamond to get the reaction
there. So, Jeremy, I saw that some of the more kind of far-right members of the Netanyahu party are kind of rejoicing at this proposal, out-of-the box
idea, as the White House calls it.
But what are you hearing from ordinary Israelis, but also critically here, more importantly, from Palestinians?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, we spoke to some ordinary Israelis on the street today of --streets of Tel Aviv, and they
were really quite baffled by the suggestion, by the President, didn't really take it seriously or see it as realistic. And inside of Gaza, we
have heard, of course, one Palestinian after the next making very clear that they will not leave their land even amid the destruction, even as they
begin to rebuild, they are committed to staying on their land even if that means living in tents amid the rubble.
But meanwhile, there are questions about exactly what President Trump's proposal actually means here with human rights activists and lawyers making
very clear that this is just ethnic cleansing by another name.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (voice-over): In the ruins of Gaza, Sami Ramadan(ph) is determined to clear the rubble where his home once stood, and he is determined to
stay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): "We will not leave. Occupation and colonization will vanish and we will stay", he says. "As long as we live on
this land, we will stay. We will die here, even if in a tent I will live in the ruins of my home." Like so many here, he swiftly rejected President
Trump's proposal to permanently displace Gaza's 2 million Palestinians in favor of a U.S. takeover, and the President's rationale for doing so.
TRUMP: What's the alternative? Go where. There's no other alternative. If they had an alternative, they'd much rather not go back to Gaza and live in
a beautiful alternative that's safe.
DIAMOND: But hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have decided to return to their homes. Alongside tents pitched amid the rubble, they have already
begun to rebuild. They say they are undeterred by the scale of the destruction. "I don't care what Trump says or anyone else. Look, my house
is completely destroyed. There's not even a roof. But here I am. I am staying."
Jordan and Egypt, the two countries Trump is pushing to accept Palestinian refugees, reiterating that Palestinians must be able to remain in Gaza amid
what will be a years-long reconstruction. While Trump says his proposal is a humanitarian one, human rights experts call it a crime against humanity.
NOURA ERAKAT, HUMAN RIGHTS ATTORNEY & PROFESSOR, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: Their removal route is equivalent to their forced exile, permanent and forced
exile, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the denial of their return, which is already a Palestinian condition.
DIAMOND: So, there's no question in your mind that what President Trump is suggesting here is ethnic cleansing.
ERAKAT: There should be no question in anybody's mind. Trump is saying it himself that this is about the removal of Palestinians. He's calling Gaza a
home to 2.3 million people, a home to an indigenous people, a demolition site, because the U.S. funded that demolition by air, by sea, by ground.
And now, in order to complete the project, they want to remove Palestinians altogether and then to claim ownership of it.
DIAMOND: Trump's proposal is being heralded on the right-wing of Israeli politics, where lawmakers have long pushed for the forcible displacement of
Palestinians.
BEZALEL SMOTRICH, MINISTER OF FINANCE, ISRAEL (through translator): Those who carried out the most horrific massacre on our land will find themselves
losing their land forever. Now, with God's help, we will work to permanently bury the dangerous idea of a Palestinian state.
DIAMOND: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calling Trump's proposal worth pursuing. But even as he stopped short of a full-throated
endorsement, Netanyahu's broad smile said it all. He and the new U.S. President now speaking the same language.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND: And while there's no question that the Israeli Prime Minister has clearly -- failed to have Trump back in office, questions remain about what
the impact of this visit will actually be on the current ceasefire agreement, and whether or not, Trump has actually pressured or has been
effective in pressuring the Israeli Prime Minister to extend this six weeks ceasefire into phases 2 and 3. Isa?
SOARES: Jeremy Diamond for us in Tel Aviv this hour, appreciate it, thank you, Jeremy. Well, Donald Trump says everybody -- his words, he's spoken
to, loves his idea for Gaza. Clearly, he did not speak to any of the Palestinians you heard there in that report by Jeremy Diamond or any
Palestinians at all, in fact, have listened to a spokesman for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
[14:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NABIL ABU RUDEINEH, SPOKESPERSON FOR PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRESIDENT MAHMOUD ABBAS: We are against any occupation, whether Israeli occupation or
American occupation, to the Palestinian land. We are -- we are -- we are living in our country, in our state, in our land, and we will not leave
forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: For more now, we're joined by Ambassador Husam Zomlot, he's head of the Palestinian Mission to the U.K. Ambassador, great to have you back on
the show. You heard plenty of clips, plenty of reaction there from right around the world, disbelief and outrage. Just your reaction to what we've
heard in that press conference that made many of us, you know, scratch our heads.
HUSAM ZOMLOT, HEAD OF PALESTINIAN MISSION TO THE UNITED KINGDOM: Regrettable, unfortunate. The least needed thing at this point in time, we
all wanted to go into direction of ending wars, of going into a path of peace, of having a new American President delivering his promise to be a
peacemaker, and we ended up with an absurd proposition that would only start new wars and would complicate things much further.
And therefore, we Palestinians know what we are up against for a 100 years. We know the essence of the whole project in Israel is the erasure of the
Palestinian people who have lived it. I am the product. I am the product of the first Nakba, the first ethnic cleansing, two-thirds of the Palestinian
people.
We know what Israel is about, but we also -- we know what we are about. Hundred years of a war of extermination. And here we are. There are 7
million Palestinians on their land, in their homes, and 7 million Palestinians in the -- refugees in the Diaspora. We also know the position
of the international community. You've heard from the Arab world, you've heard from the U.K. and the rest of Europe --
SOARES: And others, yes, indeed --
ZOMLOT: Consensus. This is, Isa, this is about the U.S., this is not about us, this is not about Israel, Israel is very well known -- what they're
after, Netanyahu, the ideologues, the --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: Fanatics. This is about the standing of the U.S. I mean, a U.S. President proposes ethnic cleansing in today's time and age --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: Is really worrying about how the U.S. could be a leading force in the international scene --
SOARES: Let me give you a sense, ambassador, we heard the U.S. National Security adviser, Mike Waltz, speaking on another channel today, said
"Trump's proposal to take over Gaza is meant to pressure neighboring Arab nations to come up with their own solution. Quote, "it's going to bring the
entire region to come with their own solutions." So, who is he pressuring here with this proposal or this idea?
ZOMLOT: Well, the only side that he needs to pressure is the person next to him, Benjamin Netanyahu, who is officially wanted by the ICC. The region
has a plan. Palestine has a plan. The plan is on the table. It has international consensus. We need to maintain the ceasefire, make sure it's
permanent. We need to rebuild Gaza, make sure people --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: Have lives and livelihoods and homes and hospitals and schools. And we need to move swiftly to unite the West Bank and Gaza, that can only
happen by the state of Palestine and the government of the state of Palestine. That is absolutely ready with all the plans, all the
international partnership, to make sure that we provide for our people in the West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem, and we move swiftly to implement
rather than talk about the two state solution --
SOARES: This as you know, Ambassador, I mean, he's a transactional President. He's the man behind "The Art of the Deal", who knows what he's
thinking here. But I wonder whether you think, you know, this has been like you clearly said, it's been rejected throughout the Middle East. But I
wonder whether you think that he will find a way or he'll try to really -- a strong-arm Cairo or Amman to actually do something here because he was
quoted, maybe USAID, he was quoted as saying just last week, "they will do it. They will do it. We do a lot for them and they're going to do it."
ZOMLOT: You know, the measure of misrepresentation of the Palestinian people and the dehumanization of the Palestinian people is just mind
boggling. I mean, we are a nation very vivid, very rooted. We have an agency, Isa, we have a political agency, we have a national movement, we
have a cultural agency, legal agency, look at us, nobody will push us around.
Whatever happens, whatever third party happens, we will remain on our land. Period. And I've just told you, we started with an ethnic cleansing
campaign in 1948. Then the occupation and the colonization and the theft of our land and the system of oppression and the apartheid and the besiegement
and the murder and the rounding of hundreds of thousands of our people, almost 1 million Palestinians have been arrested since the occupation,
without charge, without trial, our children, et cetera, ending with the genocide.
A genocide in Gaza a la the International Court of Justice and the ICC arrest warrants -- genocide. Yet, the first day the genocide began to end,
you've seen the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians marching on foot to their destroyed homes, putting whatever they have --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: To live in their homes. That's the spirit. And no force, no force on earth will be able to remove the Palestinians --
SOARES: Let --
ZOMLOT: From their homes.
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Let -- and I think to say --
ZOMLOT: So, I'm assured -- I'm sorry to tell you, Isa, I'm assured, we've been there.
SOARES: Do you take this seriously --
ZOMLOT: I was --
SOARES: Though? Do you take this seriously --
ZOMLOT: I was born -- it was --
SOARES: Ambassador, it was foreign policy.
ZOMLOT: I was born -- I was born in a refugee camp. I know what I'm talking about. I know my community. I know my mothers.
SOARES: And we've heard it, we've heard from Palestinians today on this --
ZOMLOT: I know my mothers, I know my mothers, and I know my society, my community. Nobody will take us anywhere. We are there --
SOARES: Do you take this -- do you take this seriously? Is it dangerous or is this just a lot of, you know, throwing ideas out?
ZOMLOT: He's not an amateur or a commentator. He's the President --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: Of the United States of America. So, he must watch what he says.
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: And he must think and think again of what he says because what he says, even if it's not implemented --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: And I assure you 100 percent, it will not be implemented -- even if it's not implemented, he has introduced it, normalized it --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: And normalized ethnic cleansing, mass expulsion, take over, gross violations of international law, the actual collapse of the international
order. And who is watching? You think it's going to be only Gaza? Who is next? The West Bank is next. And you've heard him say --
SOARES: And actually, I'm glad you mentioned the West Bank --
ZOMLOT: Of course --
SOARES: And I think -- I think we have the sound from the West Bank. Have a listen to what he said on potential proposals for the West Bank. Have a
listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, do you support Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria areas, which many believe is the biblical homeland of the
Jewish people?
TRUMP: Well, we're discussing that with many of your representatives. You represented very well, and people do like the idea -- but we haven't taken
a position on it yet. But we will be -- we'll be making an announcement probably on that very specific topic over the next four weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And we're already seeing the ramping up in the West Bank in the last few weeks we've reported on this, the attacks in the West Bank. This
is troubling.
ZOMLOT: Of course, it's not just troubling. This is -- this is exactly what Netanyahu wants. What Netanyahu has been talking to the President about.
This is the coalition Netanyahu builds, and this is the only way Netanyahu can return to his fanatical coalition and tell them, I've got you, the West
Bank and Gaza. I've got you, everything you've dreamt of.
Gaza will be gone and the West Bank will be annexed. Of course, this is worrying, Isa, but you know, this is not going to happen. And I'll tell you
something. Today is not really -- the focus should not be Washington. The focus should be New York. Today should be the international community.
Everybody, every one of us should be thinking not just the Palestinians and thinking again and again.
How we left this to fester for all these decades, all the way to a Netanyahu who is wanted by the --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: ICC for war crimes and crimes against humanity, allow them all the way to go to the White House and propose mass expulsion.
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: And this is a moment, you know, and then to find purchase.
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: In Washington. I think the international community, including London --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: Paris, Berlin, China, everybody need to seriously think of the business of the last 70 years. We have to change our modus operandi, and we
have to understand that we need to bring --
SOARES: Yes --
ZOMLOT: An international alliance, create leverage and enforce the international will rather than demand it and call for it.
SOARES: Ambassador, as always, great to have you on the show, really appreciate your analysis here and your viewpoints, so critical at this
juncture, Ambassador, good to see you. Thank you very much. And still to come right here on the show, global reactions coming in on Trump's --
President Trump's plans for Gaza.
Our Nic Robertson will join us with that, Saudi Arabia and Iran and what they are saying critically here. Plus, a call to restore U.S. foreign aid.
The future of USAID is hanging in the balance, creating fear, as you can imagine, and uncertainty for agency workers and so many others around the
world, many of them, of course, protesting today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Fear, anger, uncertainty. Three words to describe how many U.S. government workers are feeling right now in the midst of President Donald
Trump's efforts to shrink the federal workforce. A CIA spokesperson says everyone at the agency is being offered a so-called buyout.
Under the offer, employees would receive roughly eight months of pay and benefits if they quit their jobs. Two officials tell CNN, the
administration is planning widespread layoffs of federal workers who don't accept resignation offers. A directive issued last night said USAID
employees around the world will be placed on leave on Friday and ordered to return to the United States.
And with funding on hold, offices shuttered and agency workers in limbo, the lives of so many across the globe that depend on USAID are now at risk.
And that is the message at a rally being held right now in Washington led by some congressional Democrats and former USAID officials.
They are calling on the Trump administration to immediately restore U.S. foreign aid. Monitoring all these threats for us is our Jennifer Hansler
who watched -- joins me from Washington now. And Jen, we are seeing pretty much what you and I have been discussing this week at USAID on the verge of
collapse here.
Now, nearly all of the USAID employees working overseas have been told they need to be brought back in the next few weeks. Just bring us up-to-date
with the very latest here.
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Isa, that's about all of these employees have been told up to this point, according to
conversations that myself and my colleagues have been having with folks around the world. They saw that directive last night that also was posted
on the AID website, something that had been dark as of this weekend.
They brought it back online just to post this message about all of these employees with few exceptions being recalled and put on leave. And
employees around the world say they've gotten little information, if any information about what comes next, about how exactly they are getting back
to the United States.
And this is, of course, incredibly disruptive. These are people who have spouses, who have children in schools. They are going to have to now uproot
their entire lives because of this directive, and they are struggling to figure out the timeline and what comes next. More broadly, of course, as
you mentioned, there's a huge impact on AID's work and the people it benefits, coming from both this directive and the foreign aid freeze.
That freeze went into effect about two weeks ago, and it cut off all existing work immediately, not just future projects, but things that were
ongoing, and this has had a detrimental effect, lifesaving medicine and food we're still hearing is being held up. All of these projects are on
hold, contractors are having to lay off and furlough thousands of people because they're not getting paid, congressional Democrats said today they
are planning to take action in the courts and in the halls of Congress to bring this to an end, Isa.
SOARES: Jennifer Hansler, I know you'll stay across it for us, thank you very much indeed. And 50 marches in 50 states in one day. That is the goal
for online movement 5051. It's looking to protest President Trump's early actions of his second term. The movement all was organized under the
hashtag "build the resistance and 5051".
It also denounces Project 2025 guidelines for American government and society from the hard right. We will stay across all those images for you.
Well, President Trump's pick for U.S. Attorney General has been sworn into office. Pam Bondi is expected to take immediate action to reverse Biden-era
policy, she's seen as a staunch Trump ally.
[14:30:01]
But her qualifications are fairly conventional after she served as a state attorney general in Florida. Bondi begins her new role facing, as we've
just outlined, really a firestorm over the firing of agents and prosecutors who worked on cases related to Mr. Trump and the January the 6th
insurrection.
It is the latest in a series of wins for the Trump administration this week. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is due for a full Senate vote after clearing
committee this week. And the full chamber will also vote on Tulsi Gabbard to serve as Director of National Intelligence.
And big questions, of course, remain still around the transparency, the aptitude, as well as honesty of a number of Trump's appointees. I asked
former CIA analyst and author David McCloskey how concerned he is about independent agencies becoming entangled with politics. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MCCLOSKEY, FORMER CIA ANALYST: The CIA is by design intended to speak truth to power and is intended to deliver rough messages to the president
that he or she, you know, sort of by definition doesn't want to hear.
You know, I think it's too soon to tell if someone like John Ratcliffe will play that role. I mean, I hope he does and I'm cautiously optimistic that
he will. But I think there is and remains a tremendous kind of systemic risk in D.C. now that these institutions that for a long time have been
able to sort of remain above the worst of the political fray are going to get pulled into it.
I truly hope though that the Central Intelligence Agency will not, because we desperately need places like CIA to tell the president bad news.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And we'll be bringing you more of that interview with David McCloskey in the coming weeks. And joining our Book Club to discuss his
thrilling new novel "The Seventh Floor."
And that's not all, tomorrow we'll bring you the latest episode of our Book Club. I'll be speaking with Pulitzer Prize winning author Hisham Mattar to
discuss his latest book, "My Friends." It is a powerful new novel following the lives of three Libyan friends whose lives are changed forever after
protesting against Muammar Gaddafi's regime. You do not want to miss that conversation.
And still to come tonight, I'll be speaking with Guatemalan President Bernardo Arevalo about today's visit from America's top diplomat, Marco
Rubio. That interview is just after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back everyone. America's top diplomat is touring Central America this week as part of an effort to drive President Trump's crackdown
on immigration. On Monday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio praised El Salvador's questionably legal offer to imprison violent American criminals.
Rubio unveiled the agreement after meeting with Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele.
Then on Tuesday, he spoke with Costa Rican President Rodrigo Chaves Robles and doubled down on a sweeping freeze of most U.S. aid. That brings us to
today's trip in Guatemala, where Rubio held a joint press conference just a short time ago, the last hour or so with Guatemalan President Bernardo
Arevalo, where he announced this. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. STATE SECRETARY: President who's made the offer today, then we'll be working on the details of all of this, but the offer to
increase these flights, these -- by -- and these deportations by 40 percent. It's very important for us in terms of the migratory situation
that we're facing. His willingness to accept not just nationals, but those from other nationalities as they seek to ultimately return to their own
homelands is also important.
And we've pledged our support with those efforts as we've done with other countries like Panama. We recognize that in addition to those who may be
returned because they're currently in the United States, there are those who are here now from faraway places. And we are pledged to do all we can
to help assist getting them from here to their final destinations in their homelands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, joining us now after Rubio's trip to Guatemala is Guatemalan President Bernardo Arevalo. Mr. President thank you very much for taking
the time to speak to us this hour. We played a little clip of what came out of that meeting, of that press conference that happened last hour.
Guatemala accepting 40 percent increase in deportation flights, but also a safe third country agreement. How soon, Mr. President, is this going to
start? How soon are these deportations going to begin?
BERNARDO AREVALO, GUATEMALAN PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, Isa, and it's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you for having me. Well, first of all,
correction, we have not signed in any way, any third safe country agreement. What we have actually agreed is that in the context of processes
of repatriation, we will accept, of course, our Guatemalans returning to their home country, and we are preparing for that.
But also, all the nationalities in the process of flow -- of continuing in their journey to their own homelands. So, it is not in any way a third safe
country. It's a very different migratory agreement.
SOARES: Right. So -- and in terms of the flights, the acceptance of deportation flights, do you have a sense, Mr. President, how soon that will
start? Do you know that at this point?
AREVALO: Well, we weren't -- we have already started receiving flights. Actually, this is not something that started with this administration. We
have been already receiving flights with returnees from the United States, from Guatemala all over the last years. At this point in time, the -- this
flow is continuing and we will be expecting to see some increase gradually as the United States advances in the implementation of its policy.
But on our side, we have already developed all the preparations so that we can get all our different agencies in line to ease and facilitate the
process of return and reintegration of our nationals to Guatemala.
SOARES: And we'll talk about that process. I think that's critical. But just, of course, because you had this press conference in the last few
minutes. In the -- I wonder what Guatemala gets in return.
AREVALO: Well, first of all, we're getting our own Guatemalans, because these are assets to our country. We are -- we have people that are going to
come back with experiences with capacities.
[14:40:00]
We are very much setting up a facility so that it will enable us to identify exactly what capacities, experiences, knowledge our returnees
bring so that we can match them with opportunities working in different industries, or even setting up businesses and aligning possibilities for
credit and so on and so forth. So, that's in terms of our own returnees.
We have also been discussing, and Secretary Rubio has been very positive about continuing the flows of cooperation that we have been having
precisely on the type of programs that relate to migration and security. So, there was a discussion this morning and the teams were exchanging
information on these programs, which are going to be renewed.
We have in sight a very ambitious program of building national infrastructure, macro infrastructure, ports, airports, roads, railroad, the
metro, and the United States has agreed to provide support in this endeavor, which is going to be critical because he's going to enable us to
generate many, many, many jobs, but also to generate the type of transport infrastructure that the country needs --
SOARES: Is that --
AREVALO: -- to actually further develop.
SOARES: Is that financial support or is that manpower?
AREVALO: Well, we are -- at this point in time, we're getting assistance in the design of the processes. Then afterwards, we're going to be having a
public tendering processes so that private companies, national and international, can compete. And the intention, of course, is trying to have
as many Guatemalan jobs in place through this mechanism.
SOARES: And, Mr. President, I wonder what impact -- you know, as Guatemalan nationals come back to your country, what impact that will have on your
economy. Because I was reading that remittances from the U.S. account for roughly 20 percent of GDP. I mean, just last year, you had a record amount
$21.5 billion. Just talk us through that, the impact of how you're preparing to change this, because you also have to accommodate, of course,
all these Guatemalans who are returning in terms of generating employment here.
AREVALO: Well, that's precisely the initiatives that I were telling you, are initiatives that are aiming to generate the levels of employment that
we need. We have a tourism industry that is growing. Last year we grew 13.7 percent. We are expected to grow more this year. Many of those returnees
are people that come with the skills in English, but also from having worked on hospitality industries that are going to be able to join our
workforce and help the development of the tourism sector.
We don't know exactly what is the extent, how many people are going to be returning to have an estimate on the impact that these will have in the
remittances. But we know, for example, that as people that have been working for many years in the United States return, we expect that they're
going to be returning with savings, with properties, with know-how that actually we plan to harness into our economy to try to help it.
So, at the end, it's going to be a process of violence because, you know, as a country, we cannot plan a sustainable economy based on the
remittances. Need to generate the development and bring the people here so that they can be the ones furthering development in the country.
SOARES: And a wider point I wonder, Mr. President, if you can expand on this as well, is whether you're having conversations with your counterparts
in Mexico, let's say, with Ms. Claudia Sheinbaum here to -- and others to try and generate employment regionally.
AREVALO: Yes, we are. Actually, we've had very recently conversations with President Sheinbaum's team. The -- our teams met in a border town in
Tapachula. And one of the discussions that they were having is following up on a conversation I had with President Sheinbaum, where we discussed that
actually one of the best ways to stem flows of immigration is actually generate processes of development on both sides of the border.
[14:45:00]
It so happens that our border with Mexico -- is there is a concentration of poverty in both our sides, in the Mexican side, in the Guatemalan side. So,
there was a whole discussion about identifying possibilities for joint development programs.
SOARES: Yes. Mr. President, really appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule to speak to us. Always welcome back on the show. Thank you
very much, Mr. President.
AREVALO: Thank you very much, Isa, and have a good day.
SOARES: Con mucho gusto. And still to come tonight, President Donald Trump is proposing the U.S. takeover and rebuild Gaza. We'll have the global
reaction to that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, welcome back. We are seeing, as we showed you at the top of the show, global condemnation in response to President Donald Trump's plan
for the U.S. to take over, President Trump's words, Gaza. Mr. Trump says the region could be rebuilt and turned into what he calls the Riviera of
the Middle East.
Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, France and Germany are among those against the idea. There are plenty more others as well. Many saying it would be a
direct violation of international law.
Palestinians in Gaza are also strongly condemning President Trump's plan. Many of them, as we showed you at the top of the show, are vowing to remain
in Gaza and rebuild. Our Nic Robertson joins me now, international diplomatic editor with more.
And, Nic, just give us a sense, first of all, what you are hearing from your Middle Eastern sources about this out of the box idea as we heard from
the press secretary.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Mad was one expression that I heard because what President Trump is doing, they believe, it ticks
a number of rather negative boxes. It potentially undermines security and stability in the region because it would put pressure on Egypt and Jordan,
who, by the way, already under pressure or could be put under further pressure by President Trump because they rely on U.S. aid.
But by exporting Palestinians from Gaza to those countries, you destabilize those countries. Yet, those countries are key for the west in the region to
help keep stability writ large in the region, counterterrorism, counter movements of radical elements. Many, many things that they're relied upon.
Yes?
SOARES: I was going to say, from Jordan, Egypt, what are you hearing with those scenes? Because President Trump, we think we heard last week, oh,
they will do it. I think that was his line, they will do it. And the insinuation was like, well, the aid, we'll cut off the aid. What are you
hearing from your sources on that, on those two countries?
ROBERTSON: Yes. That's not going to work.
SOARES: Yes.
ROBERTSON: It's a very, very firm pushback. And the pushback says, go look at the Gazans. Look at them. They're the ones going back to their homes.
This speaks volumes. They will live in their homes even if they are dirt and rubble. So, no, they reject this.
However, I am hearing other conversations coming from the region that would say this is something, in some measure, maybe not a full measure of
everyone from Gaza, but in some measure there that Palestinians will be forced into Jordan or Egypt even if those leaderships don't want them. They
are vulnerable.
[14:50:00]
King Abdullah is vulnerable. President Sisi is vulnerable. They're both going to Washington this month. They're both going to plead their cases,
but they both need U.S. support.
SOARES: Where then -- I mean, there's so much talk about, OK, this is just you know, crazy idea, there's no policy attached to this as of yet. And
this is a tactic, right, part of the deal. What do the Saudis -- what does he want? Is -- does he want something from the Saudis? Because we know he
very much is about the art of the deal.
ROBERTSON: He does. He's already said he wants 600 billion of their money. That's half their GDP. It's not going to happen invested in the U.S. But he
knows that there are big arms and security deals to be done with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia wants those things from the United States. He also
wants Saudi Arabia to normalize with Israel. So, there's a lot there.
Saudi is not coming out, and it wouldn't come out. Diplomatically, it's not going to do it. It's not going to come out and say, President Trump, this
is madness. You can't do it. What they've just said is, look at what we said. And they came out with a statement very quickly after Trump said
this. Look at what we've said. There cannot be normalization, what you, Mr. President, want, with Israel, if there isn't a Palestinian State. And,
quote/unquote, "it is, should be obvious to him, if you eject 2.1 million Palestinians together, there is no Palestinians."
SOARES: And that has been that position throughout. Nic, appreciate it, thank you very much indeed. We are going to take a short break. We'll see
you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: The whole of Sweden is in mourning. That is the message from Sweden's king following what's been called the worst mass shooting in
Swedish history. Flags across the country flying at half-staff after a gunman opened fire at an adult education center.
At least 10 people were killed and several others wounded. Police say it appears the shooter then killed himself as our Melissa Bell reports
authorities are just beginning to piece together this tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A nation in mourning left reeling after an afternoon of horror on Tuesday.
ULF KRISTERSSON, SWEDISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We've today seen brutal, deadly violence against completely innocent people. This is
the worst mass shooting in Swedish history.
BELL (voice-over): At least 10 people killed, with more injured, in a massacre at an adult school in the city of Orebro, Central Sweden.
[14:55:00]
Witnesses spoke of bangs and screams from inside the building as the rampage unfolded.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): A guy next to me was shot in the shoulder. He was bleeding a lot. When I looked behind me, I saw three
people on the floor bleeding. Everyone was shot. The police were not on site and neither was the ambulance, so we had to help.
BELL (voice-over): Authorities now believe the perpetrator, found dead at the scene, shot himself. Police have ruled out terror or gang violence as
possible motives.
DISTRICT CHIEF ROBERTO EID FOREST, OREBRO POLICE (through translator): There's much to suggest that it's a solitary act. And that's the picture we
have right now.
BELL (voice-over): Sweden has grappled with gang related violent crime in recent years, but scenes like those at Orebro are rare. Such violence in a
school has stunned the country.
In the words of the prime minister, a darkness fell over Sweden on Tuesday night. And as dawn broke, a tide of questions and grief to come.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Orebro.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, we are keeping a close eye on the White House this hour, as President Trump is expected to sign an executive order that would ban
transgender women from women's sports. A White House official says the order's titled Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports. As of now, the Title IX
civil right law prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs and activities that receive federal funding. We'll have more at
the top of the next hour.
That does it for us for this hour. Thank you very much for your company. Stay right here. NEWSROOM with Jim Sciutto is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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END
