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Isa Soares Tonight

Judge Pauses Deadline for Workers to Accept Trump "Buyout"; Trump Admin. Planning Widespread Layoffs; Author Hisham Matar on Isa's Book Club. Aired 2:00-3p ET

Aired February 06, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Benjamin Netanyahu meets with lawmakers

on Capitol Hill as the Israeli military makes plans for voluntary departure of Palestinians from Gaza. Donald Trump doubles down on his plan for Gaza,

with at least one notable change.

We'll get reaction from the region as assistant Secretary-General of the Arab League joins me live from Cairo this hour. Plus, we'll bring you the

latest installment of my book club, I sit down with Libyan-American novelist Hisham Matar to discuss his latest book, "My Friends". Well, we

begin this hour, though, with breaking news that impacts millions of federal workers in the United States and many millions more, both in the

U.S. as well as around the world that rely on the work they do.

Just a short time ago, in the last 15, 20 minutes or so, a federal judge paused a deadline that was set for hours from now for government workers to

accept the Trump administration's so-called deferred resignation offer or risk being laid off. The ruling basically means that the deadline is now on

hold indefinitely until legal challenges play out.

President Trump, with plenty of help from Elon Musk, is taking a sledgehammer to the U.S. government in an effort to downsize it. Both argue

the cuts would save taxpayers' dollars. Critics say they are breaking the law. We'll have much more on this breaking news story in just a moment and

the impact of this for all those federal employees, but also the legal aspect of this, what will this mean going forward?

So, we'll go to that story in just a moment. I do want to stay in Washington because the dust hasn't even settled from Donald Trump's

stunning announcement of U.S. plans to take over Gaza. But the Israeli military is already preparing for the displacement of millions of

Palestinians. Israel's Defense Minister says he has ordered troops to plan for what he calls voluntary exit options, the transport of Palestinians by

land, sea and air.

He mentioned some countries by name, including Spain, Ireland and Norway, saying they are legally obligated to allow Palestinians in. President Trump

is walking back some details, meantime, of his plan to turn Gaza in what he calls the Riviera of the Middle East. He now says no U.S. soldier will be

needed.

Mr. Trump says Israel would turn over Gaza to U.S. after the war, and says its people have already been resettled by that point. He did not say how

that would happen, and that's no small detail, of course, as many Palestinians insist they will not leave their homeland. We've heard from

them on the show.

Governments around the world are slamming the plan as unworkable and immoral, and of course, contrary to international law. What Trump's Gaza

takeover plan may have shocked the world, but not Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The White House says he was aware of it before Tuesday's

announcement.

Mr. Netanyahu is now enthusiastically backing the plan, and he's making the rounds, you can see there on Capitol Hill today, meeting with both

Republicans and Democrats. One senator says Mr. Netanyahu told law -- told lawmakers, pardon me, not to dismiss President Trump's proposal. Here's

what the Israeli Prime Minister said about the plan in an interview with "Fox News".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: This is the first good idea that I've heard. It's a remarkable idea, and I think it should be really

pursued, examined, pursued and done because I think it will create a different future for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's get more now from our chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju. I know Manu, it's been a very busy day for you. Just give us a

sense of you as a sense of what we heard, what the message was from Prime Minister Netanyahu to lawmakers because there was certainly a lot of

concern, consternation and criticism over Trump's Gaza plan.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it looks like it didn't -- it wasn't addressed in depth in these meetings with lawmakers. In

fact, the one senator who was in the meeting with the Democratic leader of the United States Senate, Chuck Schumer, he came out and he said that was

not discussed at all.

But then a different senator, in that same meeting, Senator John Barrasso, who is the number two Republican said that it was discussed. But it sounds

like it was discussed very briefly. And what Barrasso told reporters, he said that Netanyahu said to, quote, "not dismiss that plan".

[14:05:00]

So, there seems to be some -- a little bit of different interpretations about what happened inside that room. But the overall -- the effort by

Netanyahu is to try to make it clear that there is bipartisan support in the Capitol behind the Israeli effort, and there is bipartisan support even

though Democrats are much more critical about Netanyahu's prosecution of this war. One thing that Netanyahu did press for was for a bill to sanction

the International Criminal Court, which of course called for arrest warrants for Netanyahu and other people -- senior leaders of the Israeli

government.

He has called for a bill that would target the ICC over that effort. The United States Senate has not moved on that because Democrats led by Chuck

Schumer are opposed to that bill, but that was a topic that was broached in this closed-door meeting. Now, Netanyahu also has a meeting this afternoon

with the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.

But that meeting actually has been significantly delayed. It was actually supposed to happen about half an hour ago, we don't know exactly when it

will happen, but Johnson right now is at the White House meeting with Donald Trump and a whole separate matter trying to move the Donald Trump

agenda through the United States Congress, so that Netanyahu meeting is delayed.

But we'll see if in that meeting, this controversial idea of Donald Trump's suggesting the U.S. could somehow occupy the Gaza Strip, something that

Republicans and Democrats alike simply do not believe is a workable, feasible idea, but one that Donald Trump continues to push. Will that come

up in the meeting with Mike Johnson, the U.S. Speaker of the House?

The Speaker himself has said that he's called that idea a bold move, defended Donald Trump for saying it, and has been open to it. So, it's an

issue that continues to divide members on Capitol Hill as Donald Trump continues to pursue it.

SOARES: Manu --

RAJU: Isa --

SOARES: Let me just pick up with what you said. I mean, we are expecting President to sign executive orders. Is this at all -- does the ICC --

there's a push that you were making there from Netanyahu. Are we expecting -- are we expecting this to be related to that?

RAJU: It's not clear. There are also a whole host of executive orders on Donald Trump's --

SOARES: Yes --

RAJU: Desk. So, it's not part of that. There is legislation that would -- that is pending in the United States Senate that if passed, would create a

law targeting the ICC. But that bill has been blocked by Senate Democrats, House Republicans pushed it through their chamber. They control the United

States House, they also control the United States Senate.

But they didn't have the votes, they need 60 votes in the United States Senate, meaning Democrats would need to vote to -- in favor of advancing

this in the United States Senate. That did not happen because they did not like the way it was structured. But Netanyahu making a pitch for that bill

in these closed door meetings, Isa.

SOARES: Important context, so whenever, of course, that happens, we will bring to viewers in less than 25 minutes or so. Thank you very much, Manu,

really appreciate it. Well, let's stay of course with what we heard from Manu and what relates to that meeting with lawmakers and Prime Minister

Benjamin Netanyahu, because President Trump insists the Palestinians want to leave Gaza, but many say they'd refuse no matter how brutal daily life

has become.

We've been showing you and you've been hearing some of the sound over the last 24 hours. Heavy rain meantime and wind are deepening the suffering of

so many families left homeless after more than a year of war. Authorities in Gaza are making an urgent appeal for tens of thousands of new tents, as

well as rescue equipment to pump out water that's flooded temporary shelters.

They say Israel is still blocking the entry of aid caravans despite a ceasefire. CNN has reached out to Israel for comment on that. Well, all

across the region, there's virtually blanket condemnation to U.S. plan to displace Gaza's entire population. Egypt says it will not be part of any

such effort, warning that Mr. Trump's plan weakens ceasefire negotiations and could have catastrophic consequences.

Jordan is also strongly rejecting the idea, and Saudi Arabia says it remains firm and unwavering in its support for a Palestinian state. A U.N.

human rights expert is also speaking out with blistering condemnation. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCESCA ALBANESE, U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON HUMAN RIGHTS: It's nonsense and it's unlawful what he proposes. It's -- I mean, people talk of ethnic

cleansing, no, it's worse, it's worse. It's forced displacement. It's inciting to commit forced displacement, which is an international crime.

Forced displacement and further dispossession, and in the -- in the context of a genocide, I mean, it will strengthen the complicity in the crimes that

Israel has been committing over the past 15 months and before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, for more reaction now, we're joined by Hossam Zaki in Cairo; he's assistant Secretary-General of the Arab League. Mr. Ambassador,

appreciate you joining us. We have heard or we played some context there for you to hear. President Trump doubling down on his comments that we

heard in the last 24 hours or so over Gaza.

[14:10:00]

Today, as you probably saw, he took to social media and wrote, quote, "the Gaza Strip will be turned over to the United States by Israel at the

conclusion of fighting." I was wondering if you can give me your reaction to what we have been hearing so far, because we are also hearing from

Israel that, you know, telling the troops to prepare a plan.

HOSSAM ZAKI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL, ARAB LEAGUE: These are just stunning developments, really, if you want to take them seriously, and we

do take them seriously by the way, and I think everyone should take them seriously. This is the completion of the Israeli plan that has been in

place since October 8th, making use of the horrible attacks that happened on October 7th.

And the plan is simple. It's cruel, it's heartless, it's against the international law, but it is simple. Just force the people of Gaza, outside

of Gaza, make Gaza a wasteland, make Gaza an unlivable territory, and they will either be removed forcibly or they would willingly come and say, we

want to leave this territory because we cannot stand anymore.

This is not a single part of this, not a single element of all this is in conformity with law, with morality, with anything that we know of human

decency. I wonder how much the Palestinians can take more, you know, after the beating they have been taking for over 15 months, the slaughters that

they have been witnessing.

This is just unacceptable. And you have played on your channel on many occasions the reactions from the region, from the Arab region and beyond,

everywhere, even in Europe, elsewhere --

SOARES: Yes --

ZAKI: The reactions are just overwhelming. How much more can be said about such an illegal, immoral plan?

SOARES: Yes, and you know, the proposal like you say, and like we have been showing here, has been wholeheartedly rejected by the region. Today,

we heard yet again from Egypt saying Palestinians should not be leaving Gaza while it is being rebuilt. But as you also know, Mr. Ambassador, the

United States has leverage both over Egypt and Jordan.

And President Trump is adamant. He said this last week that -- he said "they will do it. We do a lot for them and they're going to do it." Do you

think that President Trump will try to strong-arm Egypt and Jordan to take in Palestinians? Do you think he will use that leverage?

ZAKI: I think all indications, all indications show that this is probably going to be the case. But again, those are two sovereign states. They know

how to defend their interests. I think it is very clear that they have made their positions abundantly clear that this is rejected. It's not a workable

plan. If the idea is to make Gaza a better place, then we can make Gaza a better place with Palestinians staying in Gaza, not without the

Palestinians.

We make it a better place for the Palestinians, not without the Palestinians. This is not just a piece of property that we can exchange or

buy from another country, because even Israel doesn't own it. As anyone who has a remote sense of or knowledge of international law would tell you,

Israel doesn't own it. This is not Israeli territory.

This is Palestinian territory, and it is occupied by Israel. So, Israel legally has no right to give up this land to anybody, to any other country.

SOARES: Give me a sense. You're in Cairo, give me a sense of the conversations that you're having then. We've heard Egypt's position. We've

heard Jordan's position. But if President Trump does use that leverage, what have you been hearing in terms of how defiant? You know, Egypt will

be, should any sort of aid be -- USAID being taken away.

ZAKI: Well, that's a little bit going ahead and jumping the gun on this. I don't want to speculate what can be done on the part of --

SOARES: Yes --

ZAKI: Of the United States or on the part of Egypt. I'm speaking on the capacity of an Arab League official, you understand that. But let me tell

you that the sense -- the sense in Cairo, the sense in Cairo as in all Arab countries, Arab capitals, is just an overwhelming rejection of such ideas.

The idea of forcibly removing the --

SOARES: Yes --

[14:15:00]

ZAKI: Palestinians from their territory is not new. It's not new. The Israeli extremist government and the extremist elements in Israel have been

talking about this for years. Now, they have -- they are living a dream because this talk of theirs has been echoed by none other than the

President of the United States. So, we need to -- we need to have a sensible conversation with American officials, with the administration in

the United States, and see what is the objective that they're trying to achieve.

If the objective is to make peace, to retrieve stability in the region, then that's the wrong way to go, because the right way to go about it is to

go through the two-state solution. If the objective is something other than --

SOARES: Yes --

ZAKI: Stability and peace, then that is something that we do not share.

SOARES: Yes, let's focus on some of those objectives, and you probably have heard some of the arguments that are being thrown around here, Mr.

Ambassador, that this is Trump just using this, you know, proposal, if you want to call it proposal as a leverage or as a ploy to either spur Hamas to

kind of accept certain parts of the deal or to pressure neighboring Arab nations to come up with their own solutions.

I mean, what do you say to that? What are the solutions for Gaza? What are Arab nations putting forward in terms of rebuilding Gaza conflict,

political framework? Is this something that is being discussed? I know you've been discussing for a while, but is this something that would be

presentable to President Trump as an alternative solution here?

ZAKI: I hate to think that this is the right way to push countries around to come up with ideas. But if this is the case -- I don't know if this is

the case, but if this is the case, then it surely has succeeded in getting heads turning around and getting the attention of countries. I tell you

that the Arab countries have expressed their will to chip in this -- reconstruct the issue which is a big issue.

And it should not be only footed by the Arab states -- by the way, this is an international responsibility as you and others -- the U.N. issue, this

is an international issue. It's not an Arab issue, but the Arab side, the Arab countries are willing to chip in, are willing to do their part and

even more in order to help their Palestinian brethren.

SOARES: Oh, I think we have lost --

ZAKI: From there, peace again.

SOARES: We're having problems with your --

ZAKI: Yes, hello --

SOARES: Audio, we were having -- we just lost you at the end there --

ZAKI: Oh, sorry --

SOARES: But we appreciate, we -- I got the gist --

ZAKI: Can you hear me?

SOARES: Of your message. I did indeed. I heard -- we got the gist of your message that it's not just Arab countries chipping in, everyone else has to

chip in. Ambassador, I really appreciate your time and your honesty here, so important, so valuable at this -- at this time. Thank you very much,

sir.

ZAKI: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SOARES: Now, I want to go back to our breaking news from Washington. A federal judge, as we told you in the last 17 minutes or so, pausing

President Trump's ultimatum to millions of federal workers quit or risk losing your jobs. I want to bring in Rene Marsh, CNN's Rene Marsh from

Washington with more.

So, Rene, just bring us up-to-date because we know there have been so much anger, so much confusion over this. What does this mean?

RENE MARSH, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It means that the Trump administration's midnight deadline is effectively just paused, and not a

thing at this moment as well as the actual program. The judge says, and this is a federal judge in Boston, he essentially said that he needed more

information to make the determination on whether even Trump's buyout or the Trump administration's buyout offer is even legal.

And so, while he is receiving more information, he has put a temporary pause on both that midnight deadline as well as the program altogether. And

taking it all back, if you remember, the Trump administration essentially told all federal employees they have until today at midnight to make the

determination if they were going to resign and get paid for the next eight months through the end of September or risk getting fired anyway if they

didn't choose to take the offer because their jobs would not be guaranteed.

And so, this really is a hail Mary for federal employees as the clock was ticking towards that deadline. We do know that the White House said that

some 40 to 50,000 people had already accepted the buyout offers. It sounds like a big number, but in the grand scheme of things, it is just a sliver

of the workforce, which is more than 2 million individuals working across the U.S. government.

[14:20:00]

But that is the headline for us, that union that brought this lawsuit, and there were several of them, but one of the unions that brought this lawsuit

telling me just moments after this judge decision that they were gratified and that the court made the right decision. I will say that there is

another hearing that is scheduled for this upcoming Monday, and we will see what happens at that point.

SOARES: Hopefully, some good news for those workers. I know how stressful and nerve-wracking it's been for them, as we have been showing here on the

show. Thanks very much, Rene, appreciate it.

MARSH: Sure --

SOARES: On the latest move to implement President Trump's immigration agenda, his administration is now suing officials in Illinois, Chicago and

Cook County. The lawsuit accuses officials of obstructing the recent immigration crackdown. This marks the administration's first major

challenge against Democratic-led cities as well as states that oppose local law enforcement being used to help the federal government enforce

immigration laws.

Meanwhile, the top U.S. Diplomat continues his tour of South and Central American countries. Today, Marco Rubio is speaking with Dominican President

Luis Abinader as part of a larger effort to drive forward the Trump administration's agenda on migration story we have focused at length here

on the show. Still to come, though, tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAM MATAR, AUTHOR: My father was kidnapped as you say in 1990, from his home in Cairo. For a long time we didn't know where he was. Several years

later, we begin to get letters that he --

SOARES: Yes --

MATAR: Wrote from prison, and really tell us where he is. He's in Tripoli, in Abu Salim Prison, big political prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Author Hisham Matar joined me to discuss his book, "My Friends" as his own experiences of loss and exile. You don't want to miss that. Plus,

new details are emerging about a truly horrifying attack on female inmates during a jailbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The details on that

story just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: We are learning barbaric new details about precisely what happened during a jailbreak in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo just last

week. The United Nations says that during the chaos, more than 150 female prisoners were raped and then burned alive by the fleeing male inmates.

Only a few of the women survived the blaze.

[14:25:00]

And it comes amid a wave of violence in Goma as Rwandan-backed rebels have been fighting government forces to take control of the city. Our Salma

Abdelaziz has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER (on camera): This is truly horrible and a trigger-warning to our viewers. We are learning that at least 165 female

prisoners were raped and then burned to death. This video shows where and when this horrifying mass rape took place. You are looking at inmates

fleeing from a prison in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Now, more than 4,000 detainees made it out that day. But before their escape, some of the men carried out the mass rape of 165 women, then they

set the prison alight. Most of those rape victims died in the fire. That's according to the United Nations, only around a dozen female inmates who had

also been raped survived the blaze.

Now, fighting has been taking place after a feared and dangerous rebel group called M-23 battled government troops for control of Goma, city in

the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of Congo. In a matter of days, the M-23 rebels forcibly seized control of the city. Systematic sexual

violence has long plagued the country, and with the conflict now spiraling out of control, women and girls are yet again at risk. Salma Abdelaziz,

CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Our thanks to Salma for that report. And still to come tonight, with the future of 2 million federal workers on the line, a judge steps in

to put the Trump administration deadline on hold. What would it mean moving forward? We'll go live to the White House next. Plus, one of the main

architects of Project 2025 is on the verge of getting confirmed for a very powerful position.

Ahead, if Russell Vought becomes the next White House Budget Director, will he implement his extremist vision for America? We'll ask that question,

we'll try to get an answer for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome back. Let me bring you up to date with our breaking news. Last hour, a federal judge paused today's

deadline for federal workers to decide whether to accept the Trump administration's so-called deferred resignation offer or risk losing their

jobs.

That deadline was, in fact, just hours away. With the ruling, it's now on hold while legal challenges play out. Federal unions argued in court that

administration doesn't have the legal authority to implement its government downsizing plan.

On Capitol Hill meantime, Democrats spent all night on the Senate floor, voicing their opposition to today's expected confirmation of Ross Vaught on

the head of the Office of Management and Budget, the agency behind last week's memo to freeze all federal funding. And any moment President Donald

Trump is expected to sign yet another series of executive orders. So, another busy day in Washington, D.C.

Our Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is at the White House for us. Jeff, good to see you. Just give us a sense of what the reaction,

if there has been any, to this breaking news, the judge pausing Trump's buyout offer to those federal workers.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We have not heard official reaction from the White House yet. We do expect to hear from the

president at some point on this. But there is no doubt the White House is becoming somewhat accustomed to doing an action and then having a federal

judge put it on hold. This is really, yes, at least the third or fourth major time it's happened.

In terms of this order, though, the White House still firmly believes that it is giving federal employees a good deal by offering them a buyout plan,

but labor unions and much of the federal workforce is not so sure about that. They've got about 50,000 people or so. They say that is well below

their target of some 10 percent of the federal workforce, which would be much, much, much more than that.

So, look, the bottom line here is there is deep skepticism here about what Elon Musk is doing at this government. You know, this went out to federal

employees under the subject line of fork in the road. That's exactly the language that he used when he bought the social media company now known as

X, of course, was Twitter when he purchased it, and got rid of so many employees there under that mantra, a fork in the road. So, there is some

suspicion about it, but we will see what happens.

Now, a federal judge on Monday will hear arguments from both sides about this plan. But there's no doubt this is part of the Trump administration's

effort to reshape and remake the federal government and they would like it to be smaller.

SOARES: Yes. And look, and it's certain that the courts have indeed legal -- you know, President Trump has been facing other legal challenges. We've

seen a federal court in Seattle. We've also seen a lawsuit brought forth by FBI agents. Just put that -- wrap that all for us into context.

ZELENY: Look, it is one of the only checks on the executive branch of government here, the judicial branch. So, these federal judges, of course,

are hearing these cases, everything from birthright citizenship to, as you said, the FBI and certainly this federal workforce case. And people are

filing suit in friendly areas, if you will. This judge for the federal buyout offer was in Massachusetts. He was an appointee of the Clinton

administration.

But look, this is something that is going to be one of the few roadblocks for what the Trump administration is trying to do. It happens on both

sides. It happened certainly during the Biden administration. Conservative appointed judge would put a program on hold. But with Republicans in full

control of the House and Senate and, indeed, here at the White House, the judiciary, the federal bench is one of the few speed bumps, if you will, on

the way to President Trump seeing his agenda take shape.

SOARES: And very briefly, Jeff, what do we know about these executive orders that we're expecting any time now?

ZELENY: We are getting a word that the president is likely to sign a couple different executive orders. One could be sanctions on the

International Criminal Court. Of course, the U.S. has been at odds with their posture toward Israel, but that is one of the possible executive

orders the president could sign here today.

SOARES: Jeff Zeleny at the White House, appreciate it. Thank you, Jeff.

ZELENY: Sure.

SOARES: Well, my next guest is a professor of political science at Brown University and the author of "The Presidents and the People: Five Leaders

Who Threatened Democracy and the Citizens Who Fought to Defend It." Corey Brettschneider joins me now from New York, a very well-known face on the

show. Corey, great to see you.

[14:35:00]

Let me first get your reaction to the breaking news that we brought just in the last 34 minutes, the judge pausing the buyout offer to federal workers.

The new hearings scheduled for Monday. It seems that the courts is the way to go.

COREY BRETTSCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, BROWN UNIVERSITY AND AUTHOR, "THE PRESIDENTS AND THE PEOPLE": It's certainly a good sign. So,

many of these actions, including birthright citizenship, including the desire to simply put a freeze on government spending are both illegal and

unconstitutional, and one of the main themes here is that it's Congress that allocates funds and the president who executes the law and spends the

funds that are allocated. And yet, what this president is trying to do is really reverse that and to be both a lawmaker and a president.

And so, I think when it comes to sensible judges, and there are many in this country still, they're going to do the right thing, and they did in

this case.

SOARES: Do we know that the -- what the judge delayed in terms of the reasoning behind it? I mean, is it even legal what this administration is

doing?

BRETTSCHNEIDER: Look, the idea that the president could all of a sudden, you know, decide to restructure the federal workforce by creating this

buyout, I think it -- no, that's something that Congress does.

As I said, the spending power and the power of the purse lies with congress and he would need congressional action, in my view, in order to do this.

Now, he sees things very differently. He -- and I think this has to be understood, too, in combination with the desire to simply cut off the

spending of federal funds. He's trying to usurp that spending power of Congress, really its primary function as a lawmaking body, and do what he

wants.

And I think part of it is, of course, he has advisers who are telling him, that's not how the three branches of government work. But he's trying to

restructure all of this in the form of autocratic control, to use the power of the presidency. And it is vast. It's 2 -- more than 2 million people in

the executive branch, control over a huge budget and to do what he wants.

The power of the purse is formally with Congress, but Elon Musk and Donald Trump have figured out that the actual purse is located in the Department

of Treasury office, and they're trying to control things illegally from there.

SOARES: Let's stay in Washington. I mean, there's so much happening right now. And I want to ask you about the confirmations that we expected to see

later on, in fact, on the Senate. And I think it's Russell Vought that is expected to go ahead today to lead the Office of Management and Budget.

He is, of course, the co-author of Project 2025. And while President Trump has repeatedly, I should say, distanced himself from Project 2025, we are

seeing some of what is written in Project 2025 play out. We've got a little graphic. I'm asking my producer, Julie, if she can bring up, because I

think it's important to see.

This is what was written in Project 2025, rescind all climate policy from its foreign aid program, implement a hiring freeze for career officials,

maximize hiring of political appointees. The next conservative administration should scale back USAID's global footprint. Well, it seems

to me it's all happening, doesn't it?

So, how much is his confirmation, how much is it a threat to constitutional democracy?

BRETTSCHNEIDER: It's a deep threat and this might, to some Americans and people around the world, seem an obscure office, the OMB, within the

executive branch, but it really, in many ways, is the control system of the entire executive branch. And normally such a person would follow the law.

But this is the architect of Project 2025, and as much as you said, Trump tried to distance himself, putting this person in such a firm control over

the organization of the executive branch shows that really was the plan all along.

And just to speak to the most dangerous part, we have for a long time, since the 19th century, had protections for civil servants. We're supposed

to do the job of carrying out the law, laws like the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act. And yet, what Trump is trying to do is exert control by

switching, getting rid of the protection against arbitrary political firing so that he can demand loyalty at all costs.

And I think his aim is no less than to undermine the law, to demand that this massive federal government, this massive part of the executive branch,

do his bidding and prioritize loyalty over the law.

SOARES: Corey, always appreciate your perspective on this. Corey Brettschneider, thanks very much. Good to see you.

BRETTSCHNEIDER: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SOARES: You're welcome. And still to come tonight, a story of friends, family, and the pain of exile. Author Hisham Matar tells me how the anguish

of his father's disappearance continues to influence his life as well as his writing. That story and interview next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Joining us. In the Book Club this week is Hisham Mattar with the book, his new novel, "My Friends." Hisham, welcome to the show. Welcome to

our Book Club.

HISHAM MATTAR, AUTHOR, "MY FRIENDS": Thank you. Thank you.

SOARES: This was a beautiful, beautiful read. I found it incredibly moving, very intimate at moments as well, very tender, melancholic. And it

touched on themes that I think a lot of people can relate to, friendship, grief, loss, uprootedness, and it's all in the shadow, all plays out in the

shadow of Gaddafi's brutal regime, right?

Speak first of all about the three characters and that relationship, just so viewers understanding and what the story is about.

MATTAR: So, there are three male friends. They live in London. All of them are from the same place. They're all from Benghazi, Libya. And none of them

intended to live outside of that place. But they ended up here and they can't return. And they improvise a life together and in one another's

witness.

And the book opens really with Khalid, the narrator saying goodbye to his friend Hussam who's getting on a train and immigrating going to Paris, from

Paris going to California. And he's overcome by this farewell. And so, the book really opens with this parting and him walking, he decides to not take

the bus home, but walk home. And tells the history of this friendship across the walk, across London.

SOARES: And that moment when he -- I think he's at King's Cross Station.

MATTAR: Yes.

SOARES: And the journey, it grabs you right from the get-go, that moment of saying goodbye to a friend that really shaped his life for so many

years. The moment it all centers around is the Libyan embassy, where events turn. And this was -- I'm just checking my dates, 1984, April 17th.

MATTAR: Yes.

SOARES: An incident that happened in real-life and that really shapes two of the characters forever, right?

MATTAR: Yes.

[14:45:00]

SOARES: Why -- first of all, tell us what happened on that day.

MATTAR: Well, first of all, I have to admit that I had no intention of ever writing about that event. It's an event that has marked many people,

particularly Libyans and Londoners, I would say, because on the 17th of April, 1984, Libyan students from around the United Kingdom go to the

Libyan embassy, which then was on St. James' Square, to demonstrate the arrests, torture of their fellow students back home in the university

student union in Libya. And actually, the authorities killed a couple of the student leaders who didn't want to -- who refused to pledge allegiance

to the dictatorship. They wanted the student union to remain independent.

And so, these kids from around the United Kingdom go to St. James' Square to demonstrate, thinking, you know, they're doing something good and maybe

also having a bit of fun in London.

SOARES: But with balaclavas, for identities protection.

MATTAR: With balaclavas because they want to go back home at some point. But then, from inside the embassy staff fire at the demonstration. They

kill WPC Yvonne Fletcher, a young policewoman working that day. And they wound 11 of the Libyan demonstrators. It's a very dramatic event.

SOARES: And this book very much centers around the weight of exile and that -- how that shapes you throughout. And I wonder, having read your

story, Hisham, how much Khalid's stories, you know, his shock, his abandonment, are your own. Do you see yourself in some of these friends, in

some of these moments?

MATTAR: I suppose one of the things that you have to do when you write about people like -- you know, people that you've made up is that you have

to find some common ground between your experience and theirs. And for sure, you know, the stories are very different, but I've also had to make a

home somewhere else under different circumstances. I was always able to visit my family. And, you know, unlike these characters.

And I've also felt very intimately the searing negative pressure of political violence in my own life.

SOARES: Because your father was -- was it in 1990 your father was taken, I think from his apartment in Cairo, is that right?

MATTAR: Yes.

SOARES: In Cairo.

MATTAR: Yes, yes.

SOARES: By the Gaddafi forces stuck, forced into a prison, never to be seen again. Is that right?

MATTAR: Yes.

SOARES: You -- did you ever find out, Hisham, when he died? Did you find any closure around that moment?

MATTAR: So, my father was kidnapped, as you say, in 1990 from his home in Cairo for a long time. We didn't know where he was. Several years later, we

begin to get letters that he wrote from prison and really tell us where he is. He's in Tripoli in a Muslim prison, big political prison.

And, you know, I've spent the majority of my life campaigning for the whereabouts and liberty of my father. And then, also searching for, you

know, now that it has over the years became very clear that he is -- he's been -- he was killed at some point by the Gaddafi regime, but where, when,

how, where the remains are, you know, I still don't know.

SOARES: Well, that cathartic process, that writing, but how does it make you feel not knowing? Because you have written and this is -- on this,

there is shame in knowing where your father is, shame in not being able to stop searching for him and shame also in wanting to stop searching for him.

How much? Speak to the shame aspect here and how much your identity, Hisham, is tied to his.

MATTAR: Well, I mean, I think one of the great gifts that my father has always given me is he encouraged me to be my own man. And I feel very much

I am my own man, where -- but this has been a very complicated burden to carry.

SOARES: Yes.

MATTAR: And I had to think very carefully about how to find my liberty within it.

SOARES: Hisham, really great to have you on the show. If you do us the pleasure, I'm going to give you the pen, of signing this fantastic book.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: It is a very good read. And next time on Book Club, another remarkable story of loss and resilience. My conversation with David Holmes,

the British actor and stuntman whose life was changed forever when an accident on the set of Harry Potter movies left him partially paralyzed.

Listen to what he told me about that day.

[14:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID HOLMES: It started off like any other day working on the Potter franchise, excited to go to work. A series of terrible events, you know,

and things went wrong. And unfortunately, I went into a wall of crash mats. Incredible velocity at a certain angle and my chest folded into my nose. My

spinal cord separated at the C6, C7 vertebrae.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: You don't want to miss that conversation. We'll take the Book Club on the road for that.

And, as you know, we've also been asking anchors here at CNN, correspondents, as well as producers, what books they're reading right now.

And here's what our field producer, Seb Shukla, told us he's reading in Berlin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER: Hi guys, Seb Shukla here in Berlin. And I've just finished reading this book, "Munichs" by David Peace. It's a

story about two things close to my heart, football and Manchester United. It's a fictionalized account of a true story involving the Manchester

United team known as the Busby Babes involved in one of the worst sporting disasters in English football known as the Munich air disaster. It's a

story about grief, rehabilitation, tragedy, but also about how football is more than just kicking a ball.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Great recommendation there from our Sebastian Shukla. And check out my Instagram account @isasoarescnn for more reading recommendations

from my CNN colleagues from right around the world.

And still to come tonight, see who won this year's People's Choice Award in the Natural History Museum Wildlife photographer competition. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: If you are eating right now, whatever it is, may I suggest, well, you put it down. The next story might give you a bit of indigestion. The

beetle you see in this jar, and 36 others just like it, were discovered as they were being smuggled into America disguised as snacks, that the insects

valued at almost $1,500 were concealed in packets of crisps as well as chocolate. The shipment was coming from Japan and was intercepted at L.A.

International Airport, which was lucky. Exotic insects like this are seen as a potential pest in the U.S., where they end up eating trees, plants,

and crops.

And the Super Bowl is this Sunday, in case you did not know, and we want to know, are you a Team Rough or Team Fluff? Forget the action the field in

New Orleans, the real competition, well, is expected to be rough at the annual Puppy Bowl.

[14:55:00]

This year's battle for the Lombarky Trophy will feature more than 100 puppies from dozens of animal shelters and rescues. There will also be 16

pups competing for the title of most popular. The event will be shown across multiple networks that share CNN's parent company. I wonder why

there's no gnat in this story. I would love to hear them bark and how excited they are.

But from the pup athletes at the Puppy Bowl to the natural history museum's Wildlife Photographer of the Year, one of my favorites. I take my kids to

go every year This was the people's choice winner of the 60th annual competition the portrait title No Access shows a badger on the street of a

town along England's southern coast.

The photographer, Ian Wood, noticed badgers near his house passing by a piece of badger graffiti and snapped the winning shot, winning a record-

breaking number of votes. Other submissions you are seeing now were highly commended.

And that does it for our hour tonight. Absolutely stunning shots. Doesn't matter whether you're on or not. The amount of hours that goes into getting

that shot is absolutely incredible. True dedication.

Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Jim Sciutto is up next.

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