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Isa Soares Tonight
Gabbard Confirmed as Director of National Intelligence; Musk Addresses Controversy from Oval Office; Pope Rebukes Trump on Mass Deportations. Trump Holds Talks with Putin and Zelenskyy to Begin Talks on Ending War in Ukraine; Dutch Defense Minister Says Ukraine's Battlefield Situation is Grim; Netanyahu: Ceasefire Ends if Hamas Delays Hostage Release. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 12, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a crucial call between the U.S. and
Russian President. We go live to Moscow for all the details. Plus, the Dutch Defense Minister tells me that the situation on Ukraine's battlefield
looks grim, and that he doubts the country can gain back the territory it has lost.
We'll bring you that interview. And three weeks into a fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, each side is accusing the other of violating the
deal. So where do we go next? But first, tonight, a call that can change the course of history. That is how one ally of Russian President Vladimir
Putin describes today's conversation between Mr. Putin and his American counterpart, Donald Trump.
For weeks now, the U.S. President has been signaling his desire to speak with Mr. Putin as he works to end Russian hostility in Ukraine. The Kremlin
says this morning's call lasted for nearly 90 minutes. Just before noon Eastern Time, President Trump wrote about the call on social media.
In the post, he says the U.S. and Russia have, quote, "agreed to have our respective teams start negotiations immediately and will begin by calling
President Zelenskyy of Ukraine to inform him of the conversation, something which I'll be doing right now." Well, a spokesperson for the Ukrainian
President says Mr. Zelenskyy and President Trump did have that call, which lasted about an hour.
And all of this comes -- and this is important, on the heels of American teacher Marc Fogel's return to the United States. We brought you that story
yesterday after he was detained in Russia for three years. And this moment also comes as U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, you can see there, rules
out NATO membership for Ukraine.
And while the U.S. and Russian President were on the phone, America's new defense chief was at NATO headquarters delivering a rather sobering
message. Pete Hegseth said, returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders before, of course, Russia's annexation of Crimea, for context here, is quote,
"unrealistic" and he called it, quote, "an illusionary goal".
He also ruled out NATO membership for Ukraine as an outcome on negotiations. Hegseth called on his NATO and European counterparts to take
a larger role in supporting Ukraine. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, UNITED STATES: We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that
returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a
realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. Instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable European and non-European troops.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, in a moment, I will take you to Moscow for more on that call between President Putin as well as President Trump. In the meantime, let's
stay from what we heard from Pete Hegseth. The Netherlands is throwing its support behind Ukraine, delivering another batch of F-16 fighter jets just
in the past week.
I asked the Defense Minister, Ruben Brekelmans what he thinks of U.S. Defense Secretary Hegseth's comments that, quote, "returning to Ukraine's
pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective." Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBEN BREKELMANS, DEFENSE MINISTER, NETHERLANDS: I think if you look realistically at the current situation at the battlefield, it is indeed
unlikely that Ukraine is able to regain all the territory that they so far has been taken -- what so far has been taken by Russia. Of course, it's
different. The question is, if we accept it and if we officially acknowledge it, that's a different question.
But realistically-speaking, if you look at the battlefield, the situation looks grim and it's unlikely that Ukraine in the short-term would be able
to retake all the territory.
SOARES: And as we have hear-ed(ph) here -- heard here time and time again, NATO membership has been very much at the heart of Ukraine's hopes before
the war, during the war. So, I wonder, Minister, what you think, what kind of impact these comments will have in Ukraine? Because today we heard
retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Alexander Vindman, well respected, saying this is a complete capitulation to Putin, justifying his wars of aggression,
starting in Georgia in 2008.
[14:05:00]
"This will embolden Putin and undermine the interests of peace in Ukraine and Europe." Do you agree with that comment, with that view?
BREKELMANS: No, I think we need to make sure that we do not embolden Putin. I heard the Secretary of Defense, Hegseth, also say that we need
peace through strength, and that we need enduring peace. And in order to get that enduring peace, Ukraine needs robust security guarantees.
And I think we need to discuss among allies and among friends, how can we create those robust security guarantees in the short term? And of course,
we need to continue our support to Ukraine, because fighting is taking place every day and we cannot stop with this. But in the medium and in the
longer term, we need to clearly define how can we make sure that if there is something like a ceasefire or even a peace agreement, how would those
robust security guarantees look like?
So, I think based on what the Secretary of Defense had said, I think there's a lot that we can work on together. We need to make sure that we
show unity during this process, also keep a certain level of ambiguity so Putin cannot look into our negotiation cards. But I think there is still --
there is enough ground for us to further work on and to make sure that we get peace through strength.
SOARES: Let's talk about the security guarantees, because we also heard the secretary say that -- calling on Europe to step up, saying they need to
be doing more. This is something I've heard European ministers here on my show have repeatedly told me they are stepping up. They are doing more in
terms of spending.
We now have heard President Putin -- pardon me, President Trump calling for defense spending to be increased from 2 percent to 5 percent. I mean, how
realistic is this, given that many countries, including your own, are just making the 2 percent threshold GDP?
BREKELMANS: I agree, we need to do more. We need to spend more. We also need to produce more. Because if you look at our industrial capacity both
in Europe and the United States, it's not big enough. So, we need to scale up as well. The question, of course, is what kind of target are we going to
set, and how fast are we going to reach that target?
In the Netherlands, we are -- indeed, we are growing very fast. We are now above 2 percent. We are able to grow further, but we also in the
Netherlands, we need to have not only a discussion about how do we -- do we spend more on defense, but also how do we finance this? And of course,
that's politically a more sensitive question.
I think in the Netherlands and many other countries, we need some time in order to get to a clear position on this. But it's very clear, European
countries, we need to do more. We need to spend more on defense, and we need to make sure that -- towards the big NATO summit, that's going to
happen in June in The Hague. We need to get to a joint position among 32 allies.
SOARES: Let's look ahead, because there's a lot of talk about a potential peace plan. And of course, President Trump, we all remember him saying that
he would end the war, Minister in 24 hours. So far, we have heard very little in terms of an outline of what could be negotiated at this point.
There was talk that the President, Zelenskyy, in an interview, in fact, with the British newspaper, he said he suggested swapping territory seized
by Ukrainian forces inside Russia's Kursk region for Ukrainian territories by Russia. But Moscow seems to have rejected that. So, in your view,
Minister, what does Russia want? And what may -- do you think a peace plan -- what would it look like realistically here?
BREKELMANS: I think Russia in the short term wants two things. One is to sit back and to wait until we are coming and asking for negotiations. And I
think we need to make sure that Ukraine is in a position of strength so that Ukraine is not the party who is -- was asking, but that Russia is also
feeling the pressure to compromise.
And second, I think what Putin also wants is to divide us and to see us debating among each other what should happen at the negotiation table. But
I think it is important at this point that we discuss among allies what our position at the negotiating table should be, and how can we enable Ukraine
to be as strong as possible at the negotiation table, but not inform Putin about this?
And I do see a risk of now having this open discussions about how a peace plan should look like. But it would only make Putin more informed than he
already is. And I think we should avoid that at all cost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:10:00]
SOARES: For more on what we heard from Secretary Hegseth, I'm joined now by Nick Paton Walsh, our chief international security correspondent. So,
Nick, let's just take a step back for our viewers to get a sense of what we heard from Secretary Hegseth saying that it wasn't realistic, his words --
unrealistic to expect Ukraine to return to the pre-2014 borders. So, we're looking at parts of the eastern front here, Crimea, also annexed by Russia
in 2014.
Just give us a sense of your analysis because, you know, you've just come back from Ukraine, you're potentially going there again. Of what those
words mean in real terms?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, look, they're trying to retake the land taken off them back to 2014 borders
in Summer 2023, and the big counteroffensive, the West spent a lot of money and training and advice on, and it failed.
So, Hegseth is essentially stating what we know to be the reality that, that maximalist Kyiv position of let's take everything back from the
Russians is unrealistic. He also said, you're not going to join NATO, well, you know, that's something Ukraine wants.
Ukraine wants a lot of things. But the idea of a war-torn country where even after a ceasefire kicks in, reconstruction, corruption, loads of
complications are going to really impede their ability to join the world's largest, most sophisticated military group. Yes, sure. That was never going
to happen, too. The issue is the tone.
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: His first appearance at a key meeting like this, he's shooting down two things that Ukraine desperately wants. And the third one, they want to
see any peacekeeping force involve U.S. troops, because without it, they kind of think it's meaningless. They may have a point. And Isa, that's just
not going to happen.
SOARES: Yes, calling on the Europeans to kind of step up.
WALSH: Yes --
SOARES: Let's look at the eastern front. I want to change the map and focus on the eastern front, which is where we've seen a lot of --
WALSH: Sure --
SOARES: The fighting. I know you've covered Pokrovsk, you've also been covering that this eastern -- the push for the eastern front and on how
much territory already the Russian troops are occupying. How will those comments you think by Secretary Hegseth will be received along those front
lines? How are they seeing this new administration?
WALSH: You've got to see this process happening on two separate levels. There's the capitals chat and any future hotel room, conference room,
negotiations about peace and that virtual strata about what they would like an end state to be and who's willing to give up what?
And then what is really happening down here along the frontlines. And this is going in Russia's favor. And so, why would it want the other process to
speed up or even get any traction? Now this has been a long, horrific fought eastern frontline, and when -- you know, there are many western
officials who say that Russia has actually suffered a strategic defeat.
And you can argue, yes, it should have taken way more for the hundreds of thousands of lives. Some estimates saying that there are 1,500 dead and
wounded on the Russian side every single day, which is staggering. They've seen steady but constant progress over the past months, particularly around
here, Pokrovsk, they moved here much faster than we thought.
About a year, they've kind of come all this way --
SOARES: Wow --
WALSH: Tiny distances. But in the progress of this war -- you know, remember how many people died and fought over --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: Bakhmut, a town of not massive consequence before, but the headlines as part of this war where thousands of people have died in
horrific urban fighting, the Russians are moving fast here as well. Now, why does all this matter? Well, we may be reaching a tipping point of
sorts. If they take Pokrovsk, if they get closer to Kramatorsk, these are two Ukrainian military hubs.
And let's face it, the current rate of Ukrainian morale and manpower --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: They're likely to get closer if not take them. Then we have a problem, because there aren't many urban major settlements left until you
start reaching central Ukraine here.
SOARES: Let's broaden it out. Let's bring the other map out if we can.
WALSH: Yes --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: I mean, this is the broader fear that at some point, you will see the Russians finishing up what they need to do here.
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: And the next major goal being Zaporizhzhia, Dnipro --
SOARES: And that's --
WALSH: And that's a large amount of open ground. I've traveled it many times. It's 2 or 3 hours drive, there are some villages, some towns in the
way, but there's nothing massive. And so, you could reach a point in the months to come where Ukraine feels its support is slipping. The Russians
are slowly moving forward and feel emboldened, even perhaps get a break in the tempo and can rebuild and reinforce, and then you might see a larger
change happening here.
That's the broader worry in all of this. Ukrainians have held them back, but the signals we're getting from the Trump administration now have been
few.
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: Initially, Trump saying he thinks Putin needs to make a deal because the war is going badly for his economy, and then signs suddenly
with the release of Marc Fogel --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: That a lot more has been happening behind the scenes than we necessarily knew. And it shows that Moscow and Washington are working
together to achieve things that make Trump look good. And that's complex, certainly for Zelenskyy.
SOARES: And it seems that Zelenskyy might not be in, might not know as much as what's going on behind the scenes between those talks that he has
had to wait --
WALSH: He has been complaining loudly in interviews that he is anxious, angry, most recently said he doesn't know what contacts Trump's having. He
reads about it in the press --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: And this sounds like a Kyiv administration who for three years have been front and center of literally --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: Everything the West has done, wondering what's happening without them.
SOARES: Incredibly sobering. Nick, appreciate it. Thank you very much. Well, that is the frontline. Let's bring you the scene on the diplomacy
front, of course, because there was that call between President Putin and President Trump, well, also called President Zelenskyy, as we warned you at
the top of the hour.
[14:15:00]
Monitoring all for us is our Fred Pleitgen. So, Fred, just give us a sense of what we know, what was said in this call between President Putin and
President Trump. Do we have a readout from the Kremlin at this hour?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There is, Isa, a readout from the Kremlin's side, and it is -- matches pretty much
what President Trump said as well. But there are some pretty important nuances. First of all, hear the view from Moscow, if you will. We've been
monitoring this very carefully, is that they believe that this was a big success for the Russian President, also for Russia as well.
In fact, the spokesman for the Kremlin, Dmitry Peskov, he said that he believes that the call was both positive and very constructive. Also,
there's also Russian politicians who are coming out and saying they believe this is the beginning of diplomacy again between the United States and
Russia, and that relations could get a lot better in the not too-distant future.
So, that's the sort of the vibe that we're feeling here on the ground in Moscow. At the same time, if you look at the readout, the Russians were
also saying the call was upward of 90 minutes long, they are saying that it was a positive atmosphere. They are also saying that Vladimir Putin did
indeed invite President Trump to come here to Moscow for a visit in the not too-distant future, and also is saying that the Russians are willing to
accept U.S. officials coming here for any sort of talks, also for talks on trying to end the war in Ukraine.
Of course, Steve Witkoff landing here yesterday was a big topic in Moscow, and of course, a big topic around the world as well. The big nuance in what
we're seeing from the Russian readout is that President Trump was saying on his Truth Social post that he wants to end the war as quickly as possible.
Russians are saying that Trump said that as well.
However, I want to read for you one quick portion. He said, "President Putin, in turn, mentioned the need to eliminate the root causes of the
conflict and agreed with Trump that a long-term settlement can be achieved through peaceful negotiations". And that root causes of the conflict is
something that the Russians have been talking about a lot.
They are essentially saying that negotiations will not be as easy as maybe the U.S. President had let on before taking office, in the early days after
taking office, and that there are things that the Russians consider red lines for themselves. You were just in front of that map with Nick, and
certainly the territory that Russia controls on the ground in Ukraine is going to be a big topic, but also the territory, of course, that the
Ukrainians control on the Russian side as well.
The spokesman for the Kremlin saying today there's absolutely not going to be any negotiations about that. They say they're going to oust the
Ukrainians from there. So, there is definitely a lot of controversy still potentially in any talks. And then there is still that question, despite
what was said at that NATO Summit today about future NATO membership for Ukraine, where the Russians also are saying absolute red line for them.
Isa.
SOARES: Indeed, it seems the ball is starting to roll on the diplomacy front, but we are very far away from reaching any sort of agreement so far.
But this comes -- and you and I were talking about this yesterday. This comes just less than 24 hours after the release of Marc Fogel. Important
news for him and for the family as well. What more do we know at this hour, Fred, about this exchange and who initiated this release?
PLEITGEN: Well, it seems as though it might have actually been the Russians that initiated the --
SOARES: Yes --
PLEITGEN: Exchange and the release. In fact, Steve Witkoff came out earlier today and said on CNN that he received information that possibly
Marc Fogel was in play. Of course, he had been in Russian custody for three and a half years, for almost four years. He was someone who in the last big
prisoner exchange that took place, really his family felt as though he'd been left behind in all of that.
And so, the negotiations apparently did continue when Steve Witkoff was already on the ground. He did say that there were still issues to be ironed
out. There is a gentleman here in Russia, Kiril Dimitrov, from the Russian Direct Investment Fund, who apparently was part of that negotiations as
interlocutor to try and help make that happen.
In the end, however, both sides came to an agreement to release Marc Fogel, and then on the Russian side to release someone who is in custody in the
United States, Alexander Vinnik to also be released back to Russia. And the Russians are saying that he will be in Russia, the Russian citizen as soon
as possible.
And I think one of the interesting things that the Russians have hinted at is that they say that an event like that is not going to turn things around
immediately, but they did say that they believe that it was a very important trust building measure that possibly then led to this for the
Russian side at least, very successful phone call between President Trump and the Russian President, Isa.
SOARES: Yes, well, the fact that they initiated speaks volumes, right, Fred? Fred Pleitgen for us in Moscow. Thanks very much, Fred, good to see
you. And still to come tonight, Israel's Defense Minister threatens a new war in Gaza if Hamas fails to meet a U.S. and Israeli deadline on the
release of hostages. We'll have more on that.
[14:20:00]
Plus, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faces one more major challenge in the U.S. Senate as he seeks to lead Health and Human Services. We have the very
latest on both those stories after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, Israel's Defense Minister warns there could be a new war in Gaza as concerns grow that the fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas
could collapse within days. A Hamas delegation arrived in Cairo today amid reports that Egypt, as well as Qatar, are intensifying efforts to rescue
the ceasefire as well as the hostage deal.
Israel has joined Donald Trump in demanding that Hamas release hostages in Gaza by this Saturday or the ceasefire is off. Hamas earlier announced it
would delay the next hostage release. It accuses Israel of violating the ceasefire, including withholding the delivery of some tents as well as
mobile homes. Israel's Defense Minister says the gates of hell -- his words, will open on Hamas if it fails to meet the Saturday deadline. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISRAEL KATZ, DEFENSE MINISTER, ISRAEL (through translator): If Hamas stops the hostage release, then there is no ceasefire agreement. And there is
war. The new Gaza war will be of another intensity from the one before the ceasefire, and will not end without the defeat of Hamas and the release of
all the hostages. And it will also allow the realization of Trump's vision for Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, my next guest says a ceasefire is very close to a total collapse. Daniel Levy is President of the U.S./Middle East Project, a well
known face on the show. Daniel, great to have you back. I mean, it's very clear at this point from what we've been hearing in the last few days that
this ceasefire is very much on life support at this stage, which perhaps may not surprise those viewers who have heard our conversation in the first
phase of this hostage negotiation ceasefire agreement.
Because I remember you pouring cold water on the second stage. This is all very good, but you wait until the second phase. Does it surprise you're
here?
DANIEL LEVY, PRESIDENT, U.S./MIDDLE EAST PROJECT: It doesn't quite need to be gasping for breath --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: So early. We could have -- and we might still, although --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: It looks more precarious now, gotten through to the end of the first phase, there are still three weekends to go --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: Clearly, those second phase talks were going to be difficult. But that statement by President Trump regarding Saturday --
SOARES: Everyone, yes --
LEVY: Everyone at midday, noon at the O.K. Corral, this isn't serious --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:25:00]
LEVY: America was the guarantor of an agreement according to which three are supposed to come out Saturday. You need that guarantor, if the
guarantor walks away from what it mediated, then you're really left with nothing. Netanyahu has a blank check --
SOARES: Of course --
LEVY: It seems --
SOARES: Does he feel empowered here?
LEVY: But it's a blank check that no bank is going to accept. Hamas aren't going to be intimidated and say fair cop -- the Palestinian people have
been told you're going to be ethnically cleansed. No Arab state has gone along with this. So, Netanyahu actually now faces and it's maybe where he
wants to be because --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: It helps bring his coalition back together, his domestic politics. But why will this go any better for him than the last 16 months? He didn't
defeat Hamas, there's no --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: Total victory. The resistance was resilient. And this is the only way you get the hostages out. The kind of attention may shift to what
happens in that Israeli public domain.
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: People have seen the Israelis coming out. Now, you're likely to see a stop to that --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: And a return to what the International Court of Justice is now ruling, could it be a genocide? And many leading Jewish historians of the
holocaust have said it is.
SOARES: And, you know, of course, we also have seen protests by families of hostages, important, who want to see their loved ones return. Some even
come on this show saying, you know, fearing that their son may be -- may have been killed, but wanting that body back. So, that pressure too,
domestically, I think that will -- that will play very heavily.
It will be interesting to see how he maneuvers that. But this all comes kind of on the -- at the same time that we hear Trump and this plan for
Gaza, that suddenly it was an off-the-cuff comment that it's sounding like -- more like policy. And that press conference alongside King Abdullah of
Jordan, that was so awkward. What did you make of that?
LEVY: Well, here's a President putting something forward, but you're not going to have American troops on the ground. I don't think they would be
able to secure this anyway. He's not saying he's going to put money into it. I think he either thinks Arab states will be intimidated or they've got
more money than sense and they're going to back it.
They have said no. Netanyahu now says, well, this is my plan for the day after, but he can't implement it. So, it's a plan that you can't go
anywhere with.
SOARES: Yes.
LEVY: Therefore, you are still stuck. If you want a solution, you can dust it all off. Hamas has said we don't have to govern. Here's --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: The governing arrangement that they would agree to. Arab states have said under these --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: Circumstances, we will be involved in the reconstruction of Gaza. Israel, you can have your normalization if there's a political horizon,
Palestinians actually get the end of occupation, but none of that is on the table. So, we're left actually with this --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: Thing, which I think is just going to deflate over time, and perhaps the President has found his new shiny ceasefire toy to work with now on
Russia-Ukraine --
SOARES: On the Russia and Ukraine. And that -- you know, that's come on very quickly in just in the last 24 hours -- I want to play you what we
heard from Steve Witkoff speaking to CNN today on Gaza and on this plan. Have a listen to this, Daniel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: And going back to a place that's going to take anywhere between 10 and 20 years to successfully
and correctly and efficiently redevelop it, makes no sense at this point in time. That is his policy. And candidly, I agree with it and so do many
responsible people.
You would never -- if there was this sort of destruction in any major city in the United States, no one would be allowed to cross the dividing line
and go back in, and because it's inherently dangerous there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And what we heard from President Trump, we're going to take it, we're going to own it. Where do Arab nations -- what do they have to do
here? Do they have to put forward an alternative proposal? And what would that look like, Daniel?
LEVY: Well, as we've said, the alternatives are out there. They've been out there for a long time. Actually, if you're serious about the idea that
Palestinians in Gaza -- first of all, he's saying they can't go back ever - -
SOARES: Yes, that's correct --
LEVY: But if you were serious about the idea that they need to be somewhere else, they come mostly from southern Israel. That's why Gazans
live in refugee camps. They have a right to return to those places in Israel. In fact, if the two-state solution has now been rendered obsolete,
we all live in this one space, Israelis and Palestinians, let's have equality in this one space.
President Trump has plenty of former South Africans. He can ask what post- apartheid living inequality looks like, but this idea that you will have people in this region, first of all, come together to be part of the ethnic
cleansing of Palestinians, something that has been attempted for decades. This isn't new.
And this idea that ethnically cleansing Palestinians will make Israel more accepted in the region --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: More at peace, more secure in the region, it really is for the birds. It's not serious. And I fear that we're going to be chasing after in
these next years, some ideas that we end up saying, do you remember when we spent weeks --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: Talking about --
SOARES: Yes --
LEVY: That particular nonsense? I think this will fall into that category.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Daniel, as always, it makes plenty. You make so much sense. I have a feeling that you and I will be discussing
this for months to come. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.
LEVY: Thanks.
SOARES: And still to come right here on the show, America has a new Director of National Intelligence despite, as you all know, a controversial
past We're going to go live to Washington next.
Plus, a look at Elon Musk's ongoing efforts to reshape the u. s Federal government. We'll have more on those stories after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Two of Donald Trump's most controversial cabinet picks are getting the green light from the Senate. Tulsi Gabbard is
now the new U.S. Director of National Intelligence, despite being accused of promoting Russian propaganda. The Senate voted 52-48 to confirm the
former congresswoman today.
Former Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell voted no with Democrats, accusing Gabbard of having, quote, "a history of alarming lack is in
judgment." Senators, meanwhile, voted along party lines to break a filibuster and move Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 's bid to be the next health
secretary forward. A final confirmation vote is expected late on Wednesday or potentially even early on Thursday.
Let's get more from our Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. And, Jeff, good to see you and beautiful background there -- backdrop there
of the White House in the snow. Let's just give our viewers a sense of what we have seen just in the last kind of few hours or so.
[14:35:00]
These are the most controversial cabinet picks. Just speak to the turnaround on the Hill that we have seen over Tulsi Gabbard's confirmation
here.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Isa, we say the word extraordinary a lot, at least in the first few weeks of this
administration, but this certainly fits that bill. Even Republicans were deeply concerned initially when these nominees were first announced just a
couple months ago, but they are now coming to a fruition. I'm told within just a few moments or so that Tulsi Gabbard is going to be sworn in here at
the Oval Office on this snowy February day as the Director of National Intelligence.
There were deep reservations among many. Republicans, but in the end, only one voted against her, Senator Mitch McConnell, of course, the longtime
Republican Senate leader who has emerged as a leading critic of this administration. He said she had alarming judgment. And, of course, pointing
to her visit to Syria to meet with Bashar al-Assad a few years ago, her comments on Edward Snowden on and on. But other Republicans have circled
the wagons and voted for her.
This is largely the work of President Trump getting his will among the Senate Republicans and getting exactly the cabinet he wanted. And RFK Jr.,
of course, he will be voted on tomorrow, we're told by the Senate. Also facing almost certain confirmation now to lead the Health and Human
Services agency, that also would not have seen possible even a couple months ago, largely because of his skepticism of vaccines. We will see. How
Senator Mitch McConnell votes on that. He is emerging is as the leading and loudest voice of the Republican conference. But there's no doubt this is
Trump's party, and he's getting his own cabinet.
SOARES: All happening very, very quickly, despite, of course, very loud concerns. Appreciate it, Jeff. Good to see you. Thank you very much.
ZELENY: Good to see you.
SOARES: Now, Elon Musk, the world's richest man who is leading a sweeping effort to overhaul the U.S. government and perhaps even dismantle it, has
been granted even more power. On Tuesday, President Trump signed an executive order giving DOGE, a newly created unit with an administration,
more authority to make large scale cuts and limit hiring.
Musk touted what he says is so just transparency, though, important to point out, he offered no evidence of that. The unelected billionaire,
meanwhile, whose companies have a variety of contracts with the Defense Department, also downplayed his own potential conflicts of interest. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The White House says that you will identify and excuse yourself from any conflicts of interest that you may have. Does that
mean that you are in effect policing yourself?
ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Well, we actually are trying to be as transparent as possible. Well, all of our actions are fully
public. Transparency is what builds trust, not simply somebody asserting trust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: CNN's Kevin Liptak is tracking this massive government overhaul as we wait for more executive orders, I understand, to be signed any moment
now. And, Kevin, I was reading an article from our Stephen Collinson, who actually frames it very well. I'm going to read it for what he said in
part, it was an unmistakable statement that true power in Washington lies not with the Congress or the courts, but somewhere in the rich mix of egos
between the world's most powerful man and the world's richest person.
So, just for our viewers right around the world, just explain how much power are we really talking about here and speak to those fears of
transparency?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, it's an extraordinary amount of power, and you saw it on full display in the Oval Office.
President Trump really sort of sitting by and listening as Elon Musk described this sweeping effort to reshape the federal government and Trump
saying that he had his backing to do it. He said that they spoke every day about these efforts to root out what they call waste, fraud, and abuse from
the government and essentially to go about it using the expansive view of executive power that the president has taken as he starts this second term.
Now, as you know, Elon Musk said that he was going to be providing evidence to some of these outlandish claims of fraud within the government. But when
you go and look and see at what they've have actually sort of said that they're doing, they say that they've rooted out these programs, for
example, at USAID, that aren't necessarily reflective of fraud. They may not align with the president's own agenda, but they, at the end of the day,
are items that were passed by Congress.
This isn't fraud. This is something that the government has approved him to do. And that is where you get into this clash between the executive branch
-- the legislative branch, but also the judicial branch. At the end of the day, almost all of the president's actions when it comes to DOGE are being
challenged in the courts.
[14:40:00]
You have already heard representatives from the administration questioning the authority of these judges to put these programs on hold or to put them
on pause. And it was interesting what we just heard in the last hour from the White House press secretary who has said that what, in her view, is the
real constitutional crisis are is what she calls judicial activists trying to flip the script, saying that these judges are abusing their power by
blocking executive authority, calling it a continuation of this weaponization of justice against the president.
So, to all of the, sort of, judicial scholars who are watching this and warning of a mounting constitutional crisis, I don't think anything she
said in there will necessarily ease their concerns.
SOARES: And I wonder, if we just take a step back here, Kevin, what do Americans -- how do they feel about Musk's power here, DOGE's control?
Because, of course, we wanted to point out they did not vote him in.
LIPTAK: They didn't. But I think in Musk's argument is that Trump did relay this to voters when he was running for president that he would take a
very serious look at how the federal government was run. He ran on this idea of reforming the federal workforce, maybe not to the degree that Musk
is doing it now, not to the level of specificity that we're seeing him do this, but when we saw Musk in the Oval Office yesterday, his argument was
that there was public will behind what he was doing.
I think that the polls that have come out since Trump was elected do show a lot of Americans supportive of what he is doing. His approval rating
clearly well above what Biden had when he departed office, it's over 50 percent.
And so, I think Americans, as they're watching this, you know, they might not understand exactly what Musk is doing in all of these federal agencies,
these, you know, various acronyms that they may not have heard of on an everyday basis, but I think, by and large, you will hear Americans say that
they do think that the federal government, the size of the federal government, the fact that they didn't think that a lot of what the
government was doing was benefiting them, they are eager for some sort of reform.
But I think the rubber will come to the road when some of these reforms start to affect every day Americans lives, and that's just too early, I
think, for that to have happen here.
SOARES: That's exactly what I was going to say. When it starts trickling down to people's lives and starts impacting, that's when it really hit
home. Stephen -- really appreciate you breaking it all down for us. Kevin Liptak there. Thank you, Kevin. Apologies.
LIPTAK: No worries.
SOARES: Now, still to come tonight, Pope Francis writes an open letter to U.S. Catholic bishops. We'll tell you what he had to say about the Trump
administration's mass deportation policy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Pope Francis is rebuking the Trump administration for ramping up deportations under its new border policy. In
an open letter to U.S. Catholic bishops, the pope says deporting poor migrants who left their homes for a better life would only make them more
vulnerable. This isn't the first time the pontiff has criticized Mr. Trump's deportation policies, and the president's borders czar, well, he's
firing back. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM HOMAN, U.S. BORDER CZAR: He wants to attack us for securing our border? He's got a wall around the Vatican, does he not? So, he's got a
wall around to protect his people and himself, but we can't have a wall around the United States? So, I wish he'd stick to the Catholic Church and
fix that, and leave border enforcement to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Now, we have a boarder czar attacking the Ponto. Who'd have thought? Joining us now from all is our Vatican Correspondent Christopher
Lamb. So, Christopher, just add some meat in the boat, just give us a sense of what we heard from the pope regarding these mass deportations and this
policy that we are seeing under this new administration.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, this was a significant and unusual intervention by the pope formerly rebuking the
Trump administration for its policy for deporting immigrants.
Now, in the letter, the pope saying that deporting migrants damages their dignity, saying that it's wrong to assume that illegal migrants are
criminals and also saying that this policy is going to end badly. So, really an extraordinary and unusual intervention by the pope.
Now, as you mentioned, he has spoken out in the past on the question of migrants and defending migrants has been a hallmark of his papacy. And on
the eve of Trump's inauguration, he said the president's plan to deport migrants was a disgrace. So, the pope really emerging as a kind of leading
voice of opposition to the Trump administration's immigration plans.
And France is not just speaking out, but also taking action on this. He's appointed Cardinal Robert McElroy, a Trump critic and strong proponent for
migrants to be archbishop of Washington, D.C. So, the pope backing up his words. And it's shaping up to be a battle between the pope and Trump on
this question.
SOARES: And he didn't stop there, Pope Francis, because he also called out J. D. Vance and his -- one of his theological ideas. Of course, J. D. Vance
is a Catholic. I do wonder how that would sit with him. But give us a sense of what the attack was from the pope.
LAMB: So, you mentioned J. D. Vance, vice president, who is a Catholic, who converted to Catholicism not that long ago, a few years ago. He used a
theological justification for this immigration crackdown. And in the letter, the pope specifically rebutted some of the arguments that J. D.
Vance had made. And essentially, what the pope is saying is that Christian teaching means that all people, migrants particularly, must be respected.
Their dignity must be valued.
J. D. Vance was trying to argue that Christian love and charity has a sort of hierarchy or tiers to it. And the pope was saying, no, that's not the
case. That Christian love and charity is universal and particularly goes to those who are on the margins of society.
So, the pope, you know, unafraid, it seems, to challenge different elements of the Trump administration's argument on this topic.
SOARES: Thanks very much. Christopher Lamb, bringing us up to date on this little spat, people spat. We will keep across it. Thanks very much. Good to
see you.
And still to come tonight, the U.S. is facing a trio of powerful winter storm. Meteorologist. Derek Van Dam will have the forecast when we come
back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: The Associated Press says it was denied access to a White House event for its continued use of Gulf of Mexico. The news organization says
one of its reporters was not allowed into an Oval Office event on Tuesday. The AP says it was informed that it would be blocked from attending events
if it did not align with President Donald Trump's executive order renaming the body of water the Gulf of America. Google has reflected this change on
its U.S. based maps. However, the AP has not. And it says it goes against the news organization's style guidelines.
Now, one winter storm has come and gone across the United States. And now, another round of storms is about to hit the Midwest as well as Northeast.
Parts of Virginia recorded more than 12 inches or 30 centimeters of snow yesterday. And according to power outage U.S. more than 170,000 customers
are now of power -- out of power right now in the state.
Our meteorologist Derek Van Dam is tracking all the developments and really looking at what's coming next.
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Isa, they'll be cleaning the roads for several hours to come because of the fresh six inches or half a foot of
snow that fell from the sky in and around the nation's capital.
Believe it or not, that's not the most amount of snow that fell in the region. I'll show you the totals in just one moment, but this is a look at
the millions of Americans under some sort of winter weather alerts. Again, the first storm system exiting off the east coast. It's the secondary storm
system that is bringing us heavy snowfall across parts of the Midwest and into the Plains. You can see the winter storm warnings downwind from Lake
Huron and Lake Michigan as well.
Here's a look at those snowfall totals. We're talking about over 15 centimeters at the Reagan National Airport. But in Virginia, we saw over 35
centimeters of snowfall. So, fairly potent storm system, especially considering we have another one waiting on its heels. And it's all driven
by this very active weather pattern. It's being driven by the upper-level winds called the jet stream, pushing storms from the West Coast to the East
Coast. Once they reach this area of the country, this is where they start to pull in moisture and really produce a significant amount of
precipitation.
But depending on where that low actually traverses is who gets the snow, who gets the mix in the of rain and snow and then who gets the heavy rain
and severe storms on the south side. That's also a factor here. So, a complex weather pattern.
We are anticipating an additional six to eight inches or roughly 15 to 20 centimeters across the State of Michigan, all thanks to this second storm
that's moving through. But to the south, it will certainly be warm enough to produce rainfall. So, this storm is coming in warmer across the areas
that just saw the freezing rain and the snow from the first storm.
And then, we focus in on the southern flank. This is the area we have an enhanced risk of severe storms through the course of the day today. So,
head heads up, Montgomery, Alabama, into southern portions of Mississippi. Read these important threats here, a strong tornado or two is possible.
Damaging winds and large hail also can't be ruled out. And this area that the Storm Prediction Center has hatched has our greatest risk of the most
powerful tornadoes today, EF2 or greater.
[14:55:00]
So, it is a significant and very dynamic storm system unfolding here across the south. And along with it comes heavy rainfall as well. Millions of
Americans under flood watches as we speak. Several inches of rain from this system moving through.
And then, speaking of the rain threat over the West Coast, this third storm, that will enter into the equation, brings rain to the area's hardest
hit by the wildfires earlier in the year, and that could create mudslides and debris flows in and around Los Angeles.
Isa, back to you.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Derek Van Dam for that update there.
And just before we go, astronauts, Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore are becoming -- are coming back to Earth sooner than expected after what has
been a very, very long delay, as we've been telling you on the show. The pair have been stuck on the International Space Station since last June.
NASA says they could be heading home as soon as March the 12th, weeks ahead of schedule. That's after SpaceX agreed to switch the capsules being used
for an upcoming space flight.
Meanwhile, NASA hosted its first ever Twitch stream today. Viewers questions were broadcast live into space, giving Twitch users a chance to
speak directly with Astronaut Don Pettit aboard the ISS.
That does it for us for today. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Erica Hill is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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