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Isa Soares Tonight
U.K. Announced Increased Military Spending; Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra Performs in Warsaw; Winning Lottery Ticket Bought with Stolen Credit Card. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired February 25, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer says
the U.K. will up its military spending as he prepares for a trip across the pond to meet with President Trump. We are live outside 10 Downing Street.
And as DOGE continues to sow chaos in the federal government, 21 federal employees call it quit in protest. We'll bring you the latest from
Washington. Plus, a winning lottery ticket purchased with a stolen credit card. The thieves could get half the jackpot if they turn themselves in.
Tonight, though, before all that, we start in Europe as the continent looks to strengthen its defense and ties with its long-time ally, the United
States. A relationship that has been shaken by President Donald Trump's rapprochement in the last few weeks with Russia.
And we've seen some evidence of that just in the last two weeks, in the last 24 hours, I should say, the British government's decision to raise
defense spending over the next few years. British Prime Minister Keir Starmer made the announcement ahead of his Thursday visit to the White
House. He says the Russian President Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine must be met by a show of strength.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: Putin's aggression does not stop in Ukraine. Russian spy ships menace our waters. Russian planes enter
our airspace. Russian cyber attacks hit our NHS. And just seven years ago, there was a Russian chemical weapons attack in broad daylight on the
streets of Salisbury. We can't hide from this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: All of this follows Monday's meeting between Mr. Trump and French President Emmanuel Macron. President Trump touted what he says are his
skills in deal making, while Mr. Macron warned against making a weak agreement that he says must not amount to Ukraine's surrender. In a
stunning vote meanwhile, we brought you the story yesterday, the U.S. sided with Russia in the passing of U.N. Security Council resolution on the war
in Ukraine.
The resolution drafted by the U.S. did not assign blame for the war. France and Britain were among those that abstained. Let's get more on this story.
Our international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson joins us now from outside 10 Downing Street. And Nic, we heard Prime Minister Keir Starmer
making it very clear that this government will be taking the money from foreign aid and using it for defense.
Calling this a dangerous new era, saying everything has changed. The timing, though, as we said of this decision, is important. Speak to that.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the timing is important to make this public announcement because he's about to meet with
President Trump. President Trump has long demanded that NATO's defense spending per GDP, per -- defense spend per GDP must be around 5 percent.
That's the threshold he's putting it at.
No European nation is doing that. No European nation is anywhere near doing that. So, what Keir Starmer has set out here is a figure that approach --
begins to approach that, that shows that European countries are listening. He thinks that he can have a relationship with President Trump. That speaks
to the strength of the alliance and the strength of the relationship that he wants to build on that strength.
That's the pitch that he's going in with, and this helps bolster that. But I think what we heard from the Prime Minister today was really a sell, not
just to President Trump in the White House, but a sell to the British public who need to understand why the Prime Minister is taking money from
international development aids, something that is actually very important for the Labor Party.
And the Prime Minister spoke to that, and putting it into defense, because as you heard him say, that this is something that we can't hide from. He's
been criticized by some of the NGOs that get some of that international spend. They're not going to get it now. This is an environment that they
say will make the world's needy in a much less safe environment.
But the pitch to the country is very clear from the Prime Minister today. And I think when he said in his press conference, imagine those bombs are
going off and the missiles while you're on the way to work, while you're taking your children to school, not in a distance, not on the television,
but actually close to you.
[14:05:00]
So, he's really trying to explain to people this is necessary. These hard choices are being made and he's trying to frame it, not under pressure of
President Trump, but because he wants to go into that meeting presenting British -- the British population united behind their Prime Minister in
this.
SOARES: Yes, and he's already been criticized on the foreign aid when he did speak about the difficulty, of course, of making that decision. Let's
look ahead, though, Nic, to that meeting with President Trump, because foreign U.K. Foreign Secretary William Hague -- former, I should say, said
today on X, I'm going to read it out to you.
"When Starmer arrives at the White House to discuss the future of Ukraine, he must fix his eye on the bust of Churchill and relay his message that the
belief that security can be obtained by throwing a small state to the wolves is a fatal delusion." This is, of course, William Churchill quote.
"The future of Europe depends on Starmer convincing President Trump of this Churchillian wisdom." So, how can -- do we have a sense of how Starmer can
reel what he's doing? What is he going to offer to reel President Trump back in?
ROBERTSON: Look, I think you'll be able to follow on from the progress, if you will, that the French President Emmanuel Macron, who has a deeper and
stronger relationship, albeit a bumpy relationship with President Trump. Starmer is going into this new, Starmer is going into this carrying the
baggage that many Republicans around Donald Trump, not least of which Elon Musk, who has called for Keir Starmer to stand down, saying that he isn't
doing a good-enough job.
All of this in tweets earlier on in the year. So, that's the sort of broader context that Starmer goes into this, that he is not particularly
liked by Republicans. And I think what William Hague, a conservative is saying here is, you've got to be tough, you've got to be strong. And this,
in essence, is Keir Starmer's message.
You know, here's a politician who's a statesman, who's controlled, who doesn't ride -- rise, if you will, to some of the jibes that he hears
coming across the Atlantic, and he does want to go in with that message, build on the strength. He sees that this is not the moment for the sort of
Trans-Atlantic allies to be trying to choose sides which side of the Atlantic, et cetera. He sees the U.K. as being a bridge to part of that.
And of course, that was Churchill's legacy. It was Churchill that brought the United States in along with the allies, to fight Nazi Germany at the
time. And it's that, that William Hague is speaking to. And really, that's the position that Starmer seems to be setting himself up for. But the
difficulty, of course, is going in with a very -- with a President who speaks loudly, speaks in a very tough tones. And as we saw, President
Emmanuel Macron had to correct President Trump --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: That can be a -- that can be a challenge for Starmer.
SOARES: And he did it delicately with a smile on his face, clearly know each other. Well, that speaks volumes for that relationship. Nic,
appreciate it, thank you very much, outside 10 Downing Street, our Nic Robertson there. I want to turn now to CNN's chief international security
correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, who is in Kyiv.
And Nick, you will talk -- we'll talk about this deal that -- this minerals deal that has been worked -- being worked on in just a moment. But I want
to get your sense of what we've heard, not just from Macron, but also in the last two hours from Starmer. We've now had pledges of increased defense
spending from Keir Starmer.
We've seen Norway and Denmark putting out a joint statement on increased cooperation on defense. What do you make -- how do you interpret, I should
say, the moves we are seeing out of Europe and the impact that this may have on the ground, the guarantees, crucially, that they're looking for.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, I mean, I think there were moves around this essentially, possibly before the tumultuous
previous two weeks, although it is remarkable to see the United Kingdom accelerate defense spending in this way. Clearly, a bid to answer, Trump
officials claims that they're not doing enough. They want 5 percent.
But this is obviously about trying to be sure that the European-led peacekeeping force that look, we're so far away from this right now,
potentially, is adequately viewed favorably by the Trump administration that, that peacekeeping force gets the logistical assistance, the backstop,
as Keir Starmer has referred to it, that they basically say they need -- that they can't function without.
Now, as I say, we are far away from those ideas at this moment. But there clearly has been coordination between Ukraine's European allies to be sure
that as Macron and then Starmer go into meetings with Trump, that they have an answer to his demand, that they contribute more to their own defense.
That was basically levied with the threat that the United States wasn't going to have their backs anymore. Now, it may be that the Macron meeting
has softened that to some degree. But the more urgent question really is Ukraine's future and Ukraine's aid.
[14:10:00]
We've heard more about that from the Europeans. That, too, was something which Trump at times mistakenly and corrected by Macron, has suggested the
United States has been significantly the majority contributed for. In fact, it's the Europeans -- but there's a huge question mark as to how much more
the Trump administration is willing to contribute.
We've heard good signals yesterday from a Ukrainian source familiar with the negotiations to suggest, indeed, that final drafts have been sent to
the Americans for a response that don't include security guarantees, but leave the thornier details about exactly what minerals, what, how, where
and who to later agreements and talks.
And the indication we got yesterday from President Donald Trump in the Oval Office is that he was inviting President Zelenskyy to Washington, to the
Oval Office to sign that deal. His Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said they were at the one yard line. So, it feels as though it is close to done.
We still need that signing and most importantly, that personal meeting because the animosity between Zelenskyy and Trump, frankly, has
overshadowed the past week.
It seemed to come from nowhere to some degree, and then maybe even disappear again after a G7 meeting again with Macron seemingly trying to
act as the peacemaker here. So, a huge amount has happened back and forth, but the whiplash of the last week does just leave you thinking now as to
exactly what of this sustains into next week.
But Europe, clearly working together here, trying to send a message to Trump that they will put up their end of the bargain, but that ultimately,
they're going to want something back from Trump indeed. And that will lead him to have to probably have some more awkward conversations with Moscow
than he's had so far.
SOARES: Nick Paton Walsh for us in Kyiv, thanks, Nick. I want to welcome in Matthew Karnitschnig; he's the editor-in-chief of "Euractiv". He's the
former chief Europe correspondent for "Politico". Matthew, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. I just want to first get
your take of what, you know, what we've heard just in the last two hours or so from the British -- U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, to really -- his
decision to increase defense spending.
This, of course, as he travels to Washington. I mean, do you think -- we put the question I put to our Nic Robertson, who was outside 10 Downing
Street. Do you think this -- he will be able to turn Trump's -- Trump around to Europe's thinking on Ukraine and indeed, you know, steer him away
from Russia here.
MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, EURACTIV: Well, thank you for having me. We know how transactional Trump is. So, this is the kind of
thing that one needs to do with him to get him sort of onside as it were. I'm not convinced that this is going to do the trick, however, because
Trump seems intent on pushing through a deal with Russia over Ukraine.
At the same time, he wants Europe to continue to spend more on defense. So, he'll probably say to Starmer, you're going to need to do this anyway, and
he's going to expect the same thing from the other European countries, as he's repeated really over years. And the one thing that we know about
Donald Trump is when he gets sort of an issue in his craw, as it were, and he doesn't let go of it, and European defense spending is one, you know,
he's going to continue to push it until the other side relents.
SOARES: Yes, and look, to be fair, not many countries, actually meet the 5 percent. I think Poland is the closest in terms of GDP, not even the United
States, 3.4 percent. So, that will be a challenge for many countries, indeed. But you know what seems clear from what we've heard from Starmer,
from what we heard also from Macron in the last 24 hours, is that Europe has realized here, Matthew, that the status quo can no longer hold, right?
Macron said yesterday, and I wrote it down. "The cost and burden of Ukraine war must be borne by Europe, but they still both made it very clear --
Macron, I should say, made it very clear that they need the United States looking for this so-called backstop. Have you heard anything, any signals
from the United States, from President Trump, particularly in the last 24 hours, that suggests he's on board, that he may be willing to change here
when it comes to providing this backstop?
KARNITSCHNIG: No, not at all. Just the opposite, in fact. And I think the 5 percent figure, as you say, the United States isn't reaching 5 percent.
This is a fantasy number, and I think, you know, Trump will just keep raising the figure, you know, as needed. Because what he wants to do is to
show that Europe needs the United States.
This is almost a kind of protection racket here, and he's done the same thing now with Ukraine by demanding access to the mineral wealth as a
condition of continued protection here. And this is not the United States that anybody in Europe knows or has known over the past 80 years. This is
not what the United States ever stood for.
It was supposed to be the -- really, the bulwark in this western alliance, in the NATO alliance, which was created around common values and not around
which country could pay X amount in order to guarantee its security.
[14:15:00]
So, it does not look like Trump is really willing to move in Europe's direction here. He's going to continue to demand more military spending
from them and other concessions in areas like trade and in particularly on trade as we've seen in the past. So, this is going to be a very
contentious, very contentious relationship going forward, I think, as we saw --
SOARES: Yes --
KARNITSCHNIG: Last night at the United Nations -- at the United Nations, where for the first time, I can remember the United States and Europe were
really on two different planets, with the United States siding with Russia on a key resolution about Ukraine.
SOARES: Yes, that was staggering. We reported on that yesterday. It was unbelievable to see that. But very quickly, you don't think he's going to
budge here then on providing a backstop. So, if there -- if there is a ceasefire, if he reaches a ceasefire, but if Europe doesn't get then these
assurances, Matthew, what does then collective defense look like without the United States for Europe here?
KARNITSCHNIG: Well, it means that Europe is going to continue to do what Keir Starmer announced today to spend more on defense, that's going to make
it very difficult for the Europeans to continue to fund the social welfare states that they've enjoyed for as long as they have. That's just a --
that's just a reality, because they also realize, I think that even if Trump says that he's going to provide a backstop, that they can't count on
it, that, you know, it's not going to be worth the paper it's written on, as it were.
And as he said recently about Europe and Ukraine and the security situation, he said that the Europeans have much more at stake there than
the United States does, and that there is -- to quote him -- to paraphrase him, there's a beautiful ocean between the U.S. and Europe. So, you know,
just for strategic reasons, Europe is going to need to deal with this problem to the best, you know, of its ability.
And, you know, for many in Europe, that's a -- quite a frightening prospect because it's not like flipping a switch, improving your defense position.
This could take decades, really. And this is something that the Europeans are really scrambling to figure out now.
SOARES: Yes, and it's not just the financial aspect of it. It's also the message you're giving to Putin, and what that means and the assurances and
security and the safety net for Ukraine and for the rest of Europe. Matthew, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you
very much indeed. And still to come tonight, CNN visits a West Bank refugee camp to get a firsthand look at the destruction amid a major Israeli
military offensive.
Plus, my conversation with former CIA analyst David McCloskey about his gripping new novel, "The Seventh Floor".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MCCLOSKEY, AUTHOR: You do step back some days and think what purpose is my --
SOARES: Yes --
MCCLOSKEY: Analysis actually serving if we continue -- if very smart people who are committed to making good policy in the region continue to
make terrible policy in the region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: The first phase of the fragile truce between Israel and Hamas is set to expire within days. But an Israeli source tells CNN, Israel is
trying to extend it as long as possible in the hopes of seeing more hostages released, even as it prepares for a possible return to war.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his troops are ready to resume intense combat at any moment in Gaza. The second phase of the
ceasefire agreement is meant to broker a permanent end to the war and the full withdrawal of Israeli troops. In the occupied West Bank, meanwhile,
bulldozers are demolishing more homes and infrastructure in the once crowded Jenin refugee camp, now cleared of its inhabitants.
Part of a major military operation that Israel says will continue across the West Bank for at least the rest of the year. That is, according to a
local official in Jenin. The Israeli army is attempting to change the map, saying the refugee camp is quote, "over". The IDF has said it's using
lessons from Gaza to counter what it calls terrorism in the West Bank. Palestinians say there are chilling similarities.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASHEER MATAHEN, SPOKESMAN FOR JENIN MUNICIPALITY: Jenin camp is a repeat of what happened in Jabalya. The number of houses that we saw completely
destroyed is in the hundreds, and the houses that were not destroyed were completely burned, and the houses that were not burned were partially
demolished. The camp has become uninhabitable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And it's not just Jenin. Our Jeremy Diamond visited another West Bank refugee camp to bring us a firsthand look at the destruction. Have a
look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): As the Israeli military expands its military operation here in the occupied West Bank, we
are getting a firsthand look at some of the destruction that's been wrought in the Nur Shams Refugee Camp. You can see all around me, really, this
entire area has been dug up by those D9 bulldozers, and we're also seeing evidence of powerful blasts that have ripped open, for example, the front
of this residential building.
The Israeli military began its expanded operation in the West Bank over a month ago, but it expanded it here to Nur Shams about two weeks ago. And
you can see here, for example, this used to be a pharmacy, and this kind of destruction is happening increasingly frequently in the West Bank,
resembling the type of military operations that the IDF has been carrying out in Gaza.
You also don't hear any people around me. We haven't seen many civilians in the area, and that's because of the displacement that has been happening
here in the Nur Shams refugee camp, and Tulkarm and the Jenin Refugee Camp as well. We're overall about 40,000 people have been forced to flee their
homes.
We spoke to some of those people earlier today who said that they really don't know when they're going to be able to return home. That's because the
Israeli defense ministry, Israel Katz had said this military operation could last for over a year, and that until that operation is over, the
residents of camps like this one, they will not be allowed to return home. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Nur Shams Refugee Camp in the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, Pope Francis remains in the hospital in critical condition with double pneumonia. And a new statement from the Vatican, it says the
pope did not experience any, quote, "acute respiratory episodes and that he had a scheduled CT scan." The Vatican also says the 88-year-old pontiff met
with senior officials on Monday, a prayer service is expected to take place today at St. Peters Basilica in Vatican city.
And we are tracking for you a really gruesome story out of Paris, where a report says a young U.S. mother had been arrested after the death of her
newborn. The 18-year-old is being held by French police for suspected homicide. According to prosecutors, she threw her baby from a hotel window.
Our Saskya Vandoorne has more now from Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASKYA VANDOOME, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER (on camera): An American teenager was arrested Monday after she allegedly threw her newborn baby out of the
second floor window of this hotel here. According to local officials, the baby was then taken and placed in a trash can nearby before being found by
authorities.
[14:25:00]
The baby was rushed to an emergency room at the Children's Hospital, Robert-Debre Care, but died shortly after being admitted. Now, the young
mother was taken to a different hospital where she underwent surgery after giving birth. Now, we know that an investigation for homicide has been
opened by the Paris prosecutors office, who told us this morning that they believe the young woman may have been in denial about her pregnancy.
Now, what do we know about the young woman? Not much. We know, of course, that she's American, that she's 18 years old, and that apparently she had
been staying at this hotel for roughly a week with a group of young friends, and they were traveling in Europe. We spoke to neighbors here in
this area -- we're in the 20th Arrondissement, it's east of Paris. It's not a very touristy area.
And the neighbors were telling us this morning that they awoke Monday to the sound of sirens of police cars, and that when they discovered what had
happened, they were deeply shocked. The U.S. Embassy released a statement a few hours ago saying that they were saddened by the loss of this young
life. Saskya Vandoorne, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, pressure mounts on Trans-Atlantic relations between Europe and the U.S. We unpack what it means for the
future of Ukraine's security. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back everyone. Returning to our top story this hour. The U.K. says it will raise defense spending to 2.5 percent of GDP by 2027, and
target 3 percent in the longer term by cutting its overseas development budget. This, as the longstanding Trans-Atlantic relationship between the
U.S. and Europe unravels under President Donald Trump.
[14:30:00]
The shift in Britain's strategy comes just ahead of Prime Minister Keir Starmer's visit to the White House later this week. Mr. Trump has
repeatedly called for NATO members to spend more on defense. European leaders are scrambling meantime to imagine a world without U.S. support,
while also peering firmly behind Ukraine as the brutal war with Russia enters its fourth year.
And in a flurry of diplomatic activity, European Council President Antonio Costa is holding a special summit on Ukraine in March. Our Clare Sebastian
explains what's at stake.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ukraine has been very clear that the best security guarantee of all would be this, an invitation to NATO. But
even before this comment from the new U.S. defense secretary --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: The United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: NATO was not an imminent prospect for Ukraine. Right now, what does it have? It has a commitment from NATO, but with no time frame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Ukraine's pass to membership is irreversible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Now, if we shade this map in a different color, you can see that most NATO allies, 29 in total, have signed 10-year security agreements
with Ukraine. Those are the countries shaded there. Those agreements promise ongoing military support, but no mutual defense clause. So, Europe
needs now to bridge the gap between this and of course, the biggest prize of all, which is NATO membership with a deterrent that will actually work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We cannot just agree to a ceasefire without real security guarantees, without a system to keep Russia
in check.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Well, if we zoom in on the European countries that have these bilateral security agreements, the big focus now is the possibility on the
ground. Now, the U.K. and France have said they could front a so-called reassurance force of around 30,000 troops, along with other partners, which
could include Sweden and Switzerland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): These would be peaceful deployments of troops, not for combat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Some of Europe's biggest armies, like Poland, for example, are not on board with sending troops, while Italy remains skeptical. But there
are other things that countries could contribute, logistics perhaps, even air defenses. Germany has been the top contributor to Ukraine so far when
it comes to those.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW SAVILL, DIRECTOR OF MILITARY SCIENCES, RUSI: It sounds like, they would need quite a lot of additional support from the U.S. to make it
viable. Europe doesn't have in large numbers the kind of air power that you would need to essentially push back Russian ground forces and Russian air
defenses. A lot of that rests in the U.S.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: And, of course, there's another club Ukraine could join, the European Union. Membership in this would come with its own mutual defense
clause.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIA COSTA, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Ascension to the European Union will be the most important security guarantee for the future of Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: That would probably still take years. So, the bottom line is that Europe cannot afford to lose U.S. support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: There must be a U.S. backstop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Even as the U.S. effort to reset ties with Moscow leaves that country emboldened --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): No one can demand anything, especially from Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: And the NATO alliance in uncharted territory.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks to Clare Sebastian for that. So, important to see that all laid out, to see what is at stake here.
Well, this hour, even in a time of war and tragedy, the arts still prevail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: The Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra is performing in Warsaw tonight, commemorating three years since Russia's invasion. These Ukrainian
musicians are bringing a glimmer of hope through Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, right as the world needs it most.
Stay right here with CNN. In the next hour, my colleague Lynda Kinkade will be speaking with the conductor, Keri-Lynn Wilson.
I want to turn to the United States because the jobs of U.S. government workers remain in limbo. Another sign of the growing backlash against the
mass layoff. CNN has obtained a letter signed by 21 U.S. digital service staffers who are part of Elon Musk's DOGE who are resigning. A source says
they are stepping down in protest.
I want to go to Sunlen Serfaty who joins us now for more. So, Sunlen, what more are we learning about these 21 federal workers here?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is certainly significant, Isa, because first and foremost, these workers are people who
have been in the federal government for years. They are highly trained. They have very specific jobs. We're talking about engineers, designers,
data scientists, product managers, these people who are, in essence, keeping some critical technology afloat in the U.S. government. And a
source I spoke to within the team confirmed that 21 on the team decided to quit and resign en mass today in opposition to what DOGE is doing within
their agency.
[14:35:00]
And specifically, the feeling that they are in essence breaking things and that they are not going to sit idly by. A source telling me it's people
that don't want to be part of this. The source says for this group, it is a protest. They don't -- they just don't want to be a part of this. And in
the resignation letter that they sent just this morning, it's very clear how they feel about this. And notably that resignation letter was addressed
to Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff.
And in the letter, they say, quote, "We will not use our skills as technologists to compromise core government systems, jeopardize American
sensitive data or dismantle critical public services." Adding, "We will not lend our expertise to carry out or legitimize DOGE's actions." So, that
very clearly while they are resigning.
And I spoke with a source within the team and they said after the Valentine's Day mass firing, there are 43 people on their team that were
let go. They gave it a beat and came back into the office on Tuesday, this is going back now one week. And for the first time, their team meeting was
led by a DOGE official and the sense there was that this official wanted to smooth over what had happened, acknowledge that it was a tough time, but
really turn the page, and that didn't sit well with these highly skilled workers that felt the work that they were trying to do was being
compromised by DOGE.
So, there was a discussion that started last week and ultimately, culminated in this resignation letter today, certainly significant 21
highly skilled government officials. Isa.
SOARES: Important reporting there from our Sunlen Serfaty. Thank you, Sunlen. Good to see you.
SERFATY: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, our book club takes you inside the secretive world of intelligence. My conversation with CIA analyst turned
author, David McCloskey. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Joining us today in the book club is David McCloskey, the author of "The Seventh Floor." David, welcome to the show.
DAVID MCCLOSKEY, AUTHOR, "THE SEVENTH FLOOR": Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
SOARES: This is an incredibly gripping book right from the get go. In fact, right from the first paragraph that makes your jaw drop as my
producer and I discovered when we were reading it. But before we even start on that first page, you include in the part -- in the beginning of your
book a CIA proverb, the building doesn't love you back.
MCCLOSKEY: Yes.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: And you were a CIA analyst for many, many years. And I wonder why you decided to focus on the CIA, because it's not your first book where you
delve into this, but talk to the relationship that you have with the CIA and the importance of, you know, writing, you think capturing that building
and the workings.
MCCLOSKEY: Yes. So, I think this book -- I mean, this -- "The Seventh Floor" is my third novel. It's probably the most personal, I think, in many
respects about the culture of CIA, CIA headquarters, Langley, what it's actually like to just work inside the espionage business. And that epigraph
you read, the building doesn't love you back, I think reflects a very deep truth about working for CIA or frankly, just working at any big
organization, which is you're in for many, many years, it becomes your life and you can grow to feel as though you're somehow indispensable. And the
reality is that a few days after leaving, you know, work goes on, that life goes on.
SOARES: And one of your central characters -- the one of -- the central character, CIA agent Artemis Proctor, she is -- she has tons of experience.
She's quite a character, very rich, very layered. But, you know, she's not everyone's cup of tea.
MCCLOSKEY: She's one of those characters who takes over the page, takes over the chapter, as I -- as you write it. And she's grown -- I think her
role in each of my books has sort of grown in importance, as I've gone along as a writer. And, honestly, it's a very strange answer. But the
reality is that she's one of those characters, she walked onto the page in Damascus Station, and she felt as real to me as I was writing, as you are
here sitting in front of me.
SOARES: Yes. The overarching theme -- and there's lots of layers to this, but the overarching theme is about foreign interference, something that we
all know all too well about not, just in the United States, but right around the world. Given the relationship we have seen in the first term
with President Trump and now with President Putin, it's definitely more -- definitely cozier than with President -- former President Biden, who
clearly did not see eye to eye.
Do you worry? Do you worry about what Putin may want to get out of this vis-a-vis Ukraine, which is so, so crucial right now as we're in the third
year of this war?
MCCLOSKEY: Yes. Yes, I do. I think -- you know, I think I worry about this from a number of angles. I mean, one of them certainly would be just an
absolute about face on our part in terms of our, you know, sort of military and security and economic assistance to Ukraine.
Another piece of it though, which is, I mean, perhaps less interesting from the standpoint of headlines, but reflects a reality inside America now is
that we have completely lost any focus whatsoever on this conflict, and it's really drifted into kind of, you know, back page news in many
respects, as I think our public has gotten tired of hearing about it.
And I -- you know, so I think we have, sort of from an attention standpoint, we have kind of ADD when it comes to the world and that makes
it very easy, I think, for really any kind of policy to be changed on Ukraine or on Russia. And most Americans will probably just kind of shrug
their shoulders, to be honest with you.
SOARES: And, you know, that answer is really important given what we know where you were based. You were based in Syria, in Damascus, I read
something like eight years, you can correct me if I'm wrong. And this was before Civil War thing, during and -- before and during, right? Just
explain why you decided to leave the CIA. Why did you feel that that was the right moment to leave?
MCCLOSKEY: Yes, you know, for me, the decision to leave was actually a very I guess kind of a pedantic one in some ways. I had gotten to a point
where I've been working on Syria, as you say, for eight years, you know, I'd been in Syria for part of that, at Langley for a lot of it. And I got
to a stage in my career where I thought I would like to see something else outside of CIA.
SOARES: Were you at all disillusioned by U.S. foreign policy when it relates to Syria? I mean, there's a lot to be said for policy vis-a-vis
Iraq, Afghanistan. But I wonder specifically with Syria, any disillusionment on your part?
MCCLOSKEY: Yes. You know, I've reflected on this a lot in the years since, and I don't think that disillusionment played a role in me leaving CIA, or
at least not a big one, but I was extremely disappointed in how our policy played out.
You know, it's extremely discouraging to be an analyst, to be trying to tell the truth to an administration about Syria, and to kind of see -- even
though I have no envy for the policymaker's position, it really was a problem from hell.
SOARES: Yes, yes.
[14:45:00]
MCCLOSKEY: You know, to see how badly I think we did on the policy front in those years was extremely discouraging. And I think it's very hard even
to, you know, sort of widen the aperture more and look at our policy in the Middle East over the past generation and think, you know, don't give us
very high marks.
And so, that is hard as an analyst in that kind of system to think, you do step back some days and think, what purpose is my analysis actually serving
if we continue -- if very smart people who are committed to making good policy in the region continue to make terrible policy in the region.
SOARES: Thank you very much, David. We're running out of time. Would you mind doing us the honor of signing the book?
MCCLOSKEY: Love you.
SOARES: There you go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Fascinating conversation there with David McCloskey. And for more where that came from, you can head to our website to see all of our Book
Clubs so far. And of course, you can catch up on anything you may have missed. Do stay tuned for our next edition where we go on the road to Essex
and speak to David Holmes, the former stunt Double and author of "The Boy Who Lived." He tells us all about an accident on the set of the "Harry
Potter" films that changed his life.
In the meantime, you can head to my Instagram, @IsaSoaresCNN to hear what our anchors and correspondence are reading, and here's what my colleague
John Berman is reading right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I am reading "The Pardon" by Jeffrey Toobin, which is about -- and I don't think I'm giving anything away here, pardons,
presidential pardons. Now, this hits on really three things that I absolutely love. Number one is politics. Number two is the 1970s, because I
love velour and also 1970s music, but also, I love Jeffrey Toobin's writing. It's incredibly crisp, incredibly energetic, and incredibly clear.
And this book focuses on why we even have pardons, how they're being used today, but it does it really through the entire prism of Gerald Ford's
pardon of Richard Nixon in 1974. It's really good, really riveting, and really relevant for right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And our thanks to John for that recommendation. And still to come right here tonight, imagine winning the jackpot thanks to a ticket bought
after your credit card was stolen. We have the details on that story just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: Now, two thieves in France bought a winning lottery ticket with a stolen credit card and the owner is now offering to split the jackpot worth
more than half a million dollars. Jean-Davide Estele's lawyer says it's a miracle for both his client and the thieves who appear to be homeless and
have since disappeared.
France's national lottery operator tells CNN they cannot confirm any details of the case because, quote, "no request for payment has been made."
Our Melissa Bell is standing by in Paris. And, Melissa, this is a story that has all of us talking. What more can you tell us?
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what are the odds, right? These two apparently homeless men, and we know this from the
bar where they bought this ticket, that's what they look like, that's what he said, broke into this guy's car, took some papers, his wallet, his
credit card, had time to spend 50 euros in this bar, buying amongst other things, this winning lottery ticket, and ran out when they realized they'd
won, leaving everything else.
Now, the guy who bought the tickets, the guy who had his credit card stolen, realized that his only hope of getting any of that money is
launching this appeal, Isa, hoping that these two thieves will make themselves known. Because the trouble is, although his card paid for the
ticket, it is actually in the hands of the thieves, and without it, the money just can't be claimed.
SOARES: And they're not coming forward. They haven't come forward so far. Would they pardon them?
BELL: So far, he's begun pressing charges. What he said by way of this kind of radio appeal to try and get their attention is that if they come
forward, not only can they have half, but he won't press any charges. For now, though, they haven't tried to collect the money themselves, and we
simply don't have any idea where they are. Will they hear the appeal? Will they feel safe enough to come forward?
The trouble is also, Isa, they only have eight days left to do that. If not, the money's lost forever. So, I would say actually that the chances of
these two guys coming back with a ticket are about as slim as where their chances of winning at all, Isa.
SOARES: And if they come forward, I mean, what are the charges possibly here, Melissa?
BELL: Well, the whole thing, the money's been frozen for the time being because technically these were ill gotten gains. But it is apparently in
the hands of the guy who had his credit card stolen to press those charges. And what his lawyer said is that, look, the argument they're making is that
had the card not -- had they not had the card, they wouldn't have been able to buy the ticket. But if they hadn't stolen the card, the ticket wouldn't
have been bought either. So, somehow all deserve half and half. That's the argument. Whether or not they'll heed it, I'll keep you posted.
SOARES: Yes, please do. We would love for this to be a happy ending where -- well, hopefully, they both be able to share it. But I can see the
frustration for the credit card owner. Melissa Bell there with that story. Appreciate it. Thanks, Melissa.
Now, a close call at a Chicago airport. Federal aviation investigators say a private jet entered the runway at Chicago's Midway without authorization.
The crew of a Southwest Airlines plane had to initiate a so-called go around, that is according to the FAA, to avoid basically a possible
collision. A Southwest Airlines statement said their plane landed safely without incident.
And the close call comes as the National Transportation Safety Board and the FAA are investigating a string of safety incidents, of course, as we
brought you here in recent weeks. And that includes, of course, the deadly midair collision over the Potomac River near Ronald Reagan Washington
National Airport. If you remember, that happened just month.
Now, have you ever wondered why on earth the planet Mars is red? Well, something my kids have asked me. It's a question that's long puzzled
scientists, but they believe they might have the answer. There's iron in the rocks on Mars, and at some point, that iron reacted with water in the
air to create iron oxide, i.e., rust.
Over billions of years the iron oxide broke down into dust and covered the whole planet in that truly iconic red color. And this is according to a
team of scientists in the journal Nature Communications. Past research didn't factor in that there was water on Mars and led to scientists to
theorize the iron came from a different source.
Researchers say this new data could change the way they understand what Mars was like millions of years ago and whether it could have been
habitable. At least I've got an answer now for my kids. Let's leave you with that.
And finally, tonight, we want to leave you with some truly, truly picture- perfect moments from Sony's World Photography Awards. Let me just -- a handful of the finalists who are going through really to the next round.
Truly fantastic sites here. As well as those who made it onto the short list. Out of more than 400,000 submissions categories included everything
from architecture to sport, wildlife as well as the environment.
[14:55:00]
What this year's judges really valued was how varied all these pictures actually were. I want to look at some of the highlights. This image, first
of all, showing the bond between one woman and a horse in Kazakhstan, part of a gallery that's called Trust Me. If we show you the other one, an
employee of one of the world's highest golf courses, perfecting her swing, as you can hear, wearing traditional Bolivian dress. And then, this skater,
female skater in India, part of a series called Shred the Patriarchy. I love that.
The contest will officially come to a close in April when organizers will announce the big winner. And of course, once we know who wins we'll, of
course, bring that to you. Wish them all the very best of luck.
And before we go, we mentioned the top of the show and just to update you on this, we are -- we'll have more from the Ukrainian Freedom Orchestra who
have been performing Beethoven's Nine Symphony, listen to this, in Warsaw tonight. We'll hear more in the next hour after this. Thank you for your
company.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
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[15:00:00]
END
