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Isa Soares Tonight
PM Starmer Meets with Trump at the White House; Trump to Meet with Zelenskyy Friday; USAID Employees Given 15 Minutes to Pack Up and Leave; Investigation Into Gene Hackman's Death. Donald Trump Confirms Zelenskyy's Upcoming Visit to the White House; U.S. President Trump and U.K. Prime Minister Starmer Meet at the White House; Family of Israeli Hostage Alon Ohel Pleads for His Immediate Release. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 27, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can say whatever you want about security, who is going to do it or on -- and that's going to be
a very pleasant conversation. The hard conversation is will we have an agreement? And I think the answer is yes. I think Russia will agree, and I
think that I really believe Ukraine will agree also.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, will you discuss this as well?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to follow up on that, if British troops are in Ukraine keeping the peace and get attacked by Russia, will you come to
their aid?
TRUMP: If the British people are in Ukraine and they get attacked --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If British soldiers --
TRUMP: You know, I've always found out about the British, they don't need much help. They can take care of themselves very well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That sounds like --
TRUMP: You know what? No, it sounds like it's evasive, but it's not evasive. You know, the British are -- have been -- incredible soldiers,
incredible military, and they can take care of themselves. But if they need help, I'll always be with the British, OK, I'll always be with them. But
they don't need help. You look at their career -- you have done very well over the years, haven't you? Yes --
KEIR STARMER, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: We have. I'm very proud of our country --
TRUMP: Oh, yes --
STARMER: And we have -- but we've also always been there backing each other up between --
TRUMP: Yes --
STARMER: Our two countries. That is why this is the greatest alliance for prosperity and security I think the world has ever seen. Whenever
necessary, we absolutely backed each other up, and that's at the --
TRUMP: Could you take on Russia by yourselves?
STARMER: Well --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: All right, one or two more.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In his remarks at the Munich Security Conference, Vice President Vance condemned free speech violations in the U.K.,
particularly. Could you respond? What is your message?
TRUMP: Well, I have an idea. We have the man right here. Come on --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Let's go, J.D., let's -- we're putting you on stage.
JAMES DAVID VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Great. Yes, look, I said what I said, which is that we do have, of course, a special
relationship with our friends in the U.K., and also with some of our European allies.
But we also know that there have been infringements on free speech that actually affect not just the British, of course, what the British do in
their own country is up to them, but also affect American technology companies and by extension, American citizens. So, that is something that
we'll talk about today at lunch.
STARMER: We've had free speech for a very long time in the United Kingdom, and, and it will last for a very long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree --
STARMER: Well, no, I mean, certainly, we wouldn't want to reach across U.S. citizens and we don't. And that's absolutely right. But in relation to
free speech in the U.K., I'm very proud of our history there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We discussed with ourselves -- we've been discussing all of it with the Australians and the Brits. Were you discussing AUKUS
with the Prime Minister, sir?
TRUMP: What does that mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AUKUS, the Australia-U.S. defense alliance?
TRUMP: Yes, well, we'll be discussing that. We've had another great relationship and you have too, with --
STARMER: Yes --
TRUMP: Australia.
STARMER: Yes.
TRUMP: We've had a very good relationship with Australia. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, while we have the Vice President here, are you both disappointed that the AfD didn't come first in the German
elections, given your previous support for them?
TRUMP: No, whatever happens with Germany -- look, the relationship has been very strong with Germany, but we'll have to see what happens. They
have a lot of things going on right now. We'll have to see. No, I'm not disappointed about anything. If anything, you would say that the group that
we would be most opposed to lost, and -- but we got along with them also. We have a very good relationship with all groups in Germany.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blackwater CEO Erik Prince, he was on our channel, "NewsNation". He was talking about his proposal to use private forces to
assist in deportations. Have you read that proposal and do you support it?
TRUMP: No, I haven't seen it. I don't think it's necessary. Our people are doing a phenomenal job. I wouldn't be opposed to it necessarily, but I'd go
to our military people and I'd go to Tom Homan and Christie(ph), I'd go to the various and ask, but I don't -- I don't see it as being -- we're doing
unbelievable -- unbelievably and getting people out, getting criminals out, people that should have never been here, that the Biden administration with
their stupid open borders should have never allowed.
They came in from prisons and jails and mental institutions, and gang members and drug dealers coming into our country like this, we're getting
them out and we're doing really well. I mean, they have -- the level of effectiveness has been incredible. Everybody is talking about -- how about
one more?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Well, no, you've asked --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, one on the Middle East.
TRUMP: Go ahead, you look so nice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
TRUMP: Here we go. Here's the kill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, are there areas specifically of Ukraine that you're talking about in giving back, specifically Crimea? Have
you gotten to those details yet on such an agreement?
TRUMP: Well, we -- you mean the areas that were taken?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes --
TRUMP: There are a lot of areas that were taken. Yes, we've talked about it. A lot of the sea line has been taken. And we'll be talking about that,
and we're going to see if we can get it back or get a lot of it back for Ukraine if that's possible. We'll be seeing about that. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been one of --
TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, press --
TRUMP: Thank you very much --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, press --
TRUMP: Appreciate it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're headed out --
TRUMP: Thank you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, guys --
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: You have been listening there to U.S. President Donald Trump and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, as you
can see there, speaking in the Oval Office surrounded by many ministers from both sides.
[14:05:00]
Both men, as you saw at the top, well, it's been about 30 minutes or so of both of them speaking there, both men really lavishing praise on each
other, talking to start off with about the ties that bound them together for a long time, the strong allies that they are. Prime Minister Starmer
thanked the President right from the offset for changing what he called the conversation when it relates to Ukraine, saying it's a historic deal that
makes sure that no one breaches.
This is something that we've heard repeatedly from Prime Minister Starmer. And two -- and he came to the White House to meet with President Trump with
a gift, a gift, a royal invitation, in fact, got a letter from King Charles for a state visit which President Trump said he would accept, and said --
called King Charles a beautiful man and a wonderful man.
Now, the majority of the conversation that you heard there was focused on Ukraine. We've got President Zelenskyy visiting tomorrow. We have seen
President Macron of France today, as you could see there, is Prime Minister Starmer there trying to make sure they bring President Trump back into the
fray to get those security assurances.
Really calling, asking for a backstop in Ukraine in what relates to Ukraine. Let me tell you what we heard from President Trump. He was asked
repeatedly whether if British troops were attacked in Ukraine, would the U.S. step in? And he, President Trump basically said, you know, the British
can take care of themselves.
He was asked repeatedly as well if he thought that Putin will invade again? And he said, I think he will keep his word. And he also added, I don't
think anyone is going to play around, he said, if there are workers there, talking about the U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal that we're expecting to be
signed tomorrow.
Ukraine calls this a framework, President expects this to be signed. But what the President has said repeatedly in that 30 minutes is basically
that, if there are people working, Americans working there on those minerals, trying to extract them, then he sees that in itself as a security
guarantee.
I'm not sure whether that will go far enough for Prime Minister Starmer or for Europe, because what we heard from Prime Minister Starmer is that he
wants a lasting peace, this could be a historic deal, but to make sure he said, critical, that no one breaches it. On the question on NATO, I thought
it was very interesting as well.
He was asked about NATO, whether Ukraine would ever be brought into NATO, which is something that we know the President Zelenskyy has asked for,
something that many European leaders that we -- I've spoken to on the show want to see. And he said quite clearly, it is not going to happen. That's
what started it all.
On the question of territory in Ukraine, he said, we can certainly try, which is something that we have -- we have heard differing viewpoints and
positions here from this government, this administration. Let's get more on this. I want to go to Kevin Liptak, who is joining us from the White House,
to try and dissect what we heard.
And Kevin, there was a lot for us to take on board. It seems that they both get on, get on well, clearly, President Trump enjoyed getting that message
from that letter from King Charles, but it still seems to me they're both at odds on this question of security guarantees.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, the Prime Minister, clearly, they're following the playbook of Theresa May, who did the exact -
-
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: Same thing when she visited the White House in 2017, offered this invitation for a state visit. But I think if he's looking at what happened
to Theresa May, that relationship soured, she didn't necessarily get most of what she wanted out of Trump throughout the years. He could see that
almost playing out in real time during this Oval Office meeting, particularly when it came to the question of the backstop, the question of
how the U.S. would help Europe guarantee security in Ukraine.
When Trump was questioned about it, he said that the backstop would amount to this minerals deal, this deal that he plans to sign with Zelenskyy here
at the White House tomorrow, that he said will provide security enough for Ukraine, that if enough American workers are there, if American companies
are there trying to mine the rare earth minerals, that, that would essentially prevent Russia from going in further, which is not at all what
Keir Starmer is talking about when he's talking about a backstop.
He's talking about U.S. military muscle, which everyone seems to agree Europe doesn't have enough of to prevent Russia aggression once this war
ends. And so, these two men, obviously, they will have to talk about this more now that the cameras are out of the room. But I certainly don't think
that is what Starmer was hoping to hear when Trump was describing the backstop.
[14:10:00]
The other sort of issue that I think Starmer was entering this meeting, hoping to talk about was offering some warnings about Putin, telling Trump
that, you know, Putin is not necessarily someone whose word you can take to heart. That was the same message from Emmanuel Macron on Monday, talking
about all of the peace deals that Putin has violated since 2014.
But when you listen to Trump there, he offers a remarkably credulous take on Putin. In fact, he says that because they both endured what he calls the
Russia hoax, that he inherently trusts him not to violate a peace agreement in Ukraine, which I think will probably send shivers down many Europeans
back.
So, it was an interesting meeting. Obviously, Starmer is here to try -- in his view, to talk some sense into Trump. But I think listening to him
there, you don't hear him moving off any of the positions that he has held previously. There was one other interesting moment when someone asked,
would you still refer to Volodymyr --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: Zelenskyy as a dictator? Remember he posted about that last week, and he was -- sort of sarcastically said, oh, did I say that? Well, yes, he
did say it. He doesn't want to talk about it now a day before Zelenskyy is here at the White House. But certainly, that sentiment still lingers in the
air.
SOARES: Yes, what's the saying? Take Trump seriously, but not literally. I mean, I don't know, don't leave it for both. I appreciate it, thanks very
much for the very latest there, Kevin Liptak. I want to get the very latest from our Matthew Chance, who I believe is in Moscow. Matthew, we're
listening in and I'm sure, Kremlin must have been pleased with what they heard there.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I guess to some extent that they are. Certainly, Vladimir Putin, the Russian President
has over the past 24 hours or so, been speaking to Russian officials here, saying that the initiative by the United States -- to paraphrase him, to
get into peace talks about Ukraine, inspires certain hopes, I think is the is the phrase that he used.
And so, you know, that's -- I think Vladimir Putin saying that this is all positive. But at the same time, you know, that the Kremlin has made it
absolutely clear that it has certain red lines, and one of them, for instance, is peacekeepers. You know, President Trump talks about how the
Europeans could provide security and peacekeepers in the event of an eventual deal.
That's something that both the Kremlin and other Russian officials have categorically ruled out. They said that wouldn't be acceptable to them. The
other issue, I think is territorial concessions on the part of Russia. Remember, Russia has annexed four -- well, you know, most recently annexed
four regions of Ukraine. It doesn't control all of those regions.
But nevertheless, within the Russian constitution, they've been formally absorbed into the Russian federation. And, you know, Putin and the Foreign
Ministry have come out repeatedly over the past day or so, saying that, that is not up for negotiation. They're not going to be backing away from
the territory they have essentially taken over inside Ukraine, and now annexed and absorbed inside the Russian federation.
And so, while there's some positivity from the Kremlin side about this process that's underway, and of course, they must be enjoying the idea of
western unity being undermined in the way that it has been since President Trump was inaugurated, or was it just over a month ago? There are still
plenty of scope for these negotiations to find a peace agreement over Ukraine to fall apart over those Russian red lines.
And so, you know, it's not -- you know, maybe -- they may be talking about a deal, but a deal has not yet been done.
SOARES: Yes, and what we heard from President Trump, he said, I don't want to talk peacekeeping until there is a deal. So, it kind of contradicts
himself just in the last 30 minutes or so. So, we'll see what more he says in that press conference when it does begin. Matthew, appreciate it, thank
you very much. He's there live for us in Moscow.
Let's get -- continue this conversation, and I believe we have -- joining us to discuss, Lithuanian Foreign Minister Kestutis Budrys, and he joins me
now from Lithuania's capital in Vilnius. Foreign Minister, welcome to the show, I'm hoping that you were able to listen to President Trump there and
Prime Minister Starmer.
Clearly, both get on well, Prime Minister Starmer trying to push for those guarantees. But it does seem to me, at least, from what I heard there, that
President Trump is not budging.
KESTUTIS BUDRYS, FOREIGN MINISTER, LITHUANIA: We've seen already, first of all, that's a good news that more European leaders are present in
Washington, and they have talks with President Trump about our common interests and about our common interests into achieving just and
sustainable peace in Ukraine.
And, of course, we understand that during the talks, there is certain dynamics. And during this, I have the hope that the basic principles will
be underlined there.
[14:15:00]
And first of all, we have to start from who is who? And in the overall picture, Russia is an aggressor here and started this war of aggression
against Ukraine to subjugate the country. And they cannot leave without the accountability of what they did, Ukraine is victim here, and we cannot
question the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.
And we have to talk about the instruments that would allow us to assure the sustainability of the peace. And during these talks, of course, there are
different aspects that are raised there and there, and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion yet.
SOARES: Right, not jumping to the conclusion. But you know, he was asked, President Trump was asked repeatedly about backstop. Other words, U.S.
security guarantees. And he said that because of this mineral deal that the U.S. is expected to sign with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine tomorrow,
that, that would amount to a security guarantee. This is something that, from what I understand, the Europeans want much more of. Would that
suffice?
BUDRYS: We have to go into the details, talking about the backstop. We're talking about this final guarantee of the -- of the peacekeeping, because
we need the credible deterrence first of all, starting with. And we all understand that previous agreements with Russia, be it Minsk one, Minsk
two, or in other -- in other wars and conflicts was not the reason for Russia to fulfill those and then commit the signature as the fact it's not
the reason for Russia to implement it.
We need the credible deterrence. And for the credible deterrence, we have to have strong Ukrainian armed forces, first of all, and also that -- for
them being backed by additional forces, be it the Europeans on the ground, in the sea or in the air with the air defense, albeit, Americans also with
some backstop of this operation, without it, we cannot talk about the credible system. The agreement on the earth materials is the pathway
towards the further discussions. And of course --
SOARES: Right --
BUDRYS: It creates the big incentive then for the United States to look for the sustainability of this agreement and protection of its interests.
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: So, it's natural that we will have the discussion about the peacekeeping then.
SOARES: Right, it's an incentive. You're saying it's the first part of the negotiations or conversation, but I didn't hear anywhere there in that 30
minutes, anything from President Trump to suggest that he would want any sort of boots on the ground or any sort of security. What -- you know, in
fact, what we -- what we have -- what he has said is that you will have people working within the minerals and that he thinks will suffice.
We did hear from President Trump talking about President Putin, saying, I think he will keep his word. And what we've heard from President Macron,
what we've also heard from Prime Minister Starmer is trying to warn President Trump about Putin and what that likelihood is, wanting, of
course, a lasting peace, he said, Starmer said, the key to a lasting peace, but also a deal that no one breaches. If there is a ceasefire, but no U.S.
backstop, where does this leave Europe, Foreign Minister?
BUDRYS: We need -- of course, we need some guarantees for sustainability, and that's what we already talked. And -- well, I have no illusions about
Putin's regime, about the views on their neighbors, we've seen from so many Presidents from 1991, from the very fall of Soviet Union, how the -- how
Russia started wars again and again with different other types of aggression against its neighbors.
So, I have no background or no proof to believe that this time it will be something different. Why it has to be, Russia doesn't need peace. They want
territories. They want to subjugate the neighboring country, and they are just focused on Ukraine. So, for that, of course, we need some credible
things there. And for that, we need the strong armed forces of Ukraine and we need the Ukraine within the western community.
And that would work as some deterrence factor. And we need leverages to push Putin to agree with that. Otherwise, appeasements or some -- or some
other tricks or some shortcuts to the ceasefire is the illusion. It's a trap. And this is --
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: Our experience from what we've seen. So, it's our duty then as the Europeans and the Trans-Atlantic partners also to convince our American
friends not to fall into this test and into this trap.
SOARES: And it seems that you believe from what? From -- I'm just reading between the lines that you think you can bring eventually President Trump
and the Americans back in. But you know, we've seen -- we've seen very little. We've seen a lot of carrot and very little stick in the
conversation between the Russians and the Americans.
[14:20:00]
Of course, no concessions on land, no to Ukraine joining NATO. And we've heard Dmitry Peskov saying that the four Ukraine regions that have been
occupied and annexed by Russia, which he calls an integral part of Russia are not negotiable. President Trump again saying today, you know, on the
land question for Ukraine, we'll certainly try. But no clarity here.
So, I wonder then where that leaves, you know, what you want to see from Europe, because Pete Hegseth, as you well know, when he came to Brussels,
he said on the question of Europe, safeguarding European security must be an imperative for European members of NATO.
Stark strategic realities prevent the United States of America from being primarily focused on the security of Europe. It seems to me that the status
quo has changed. So, what does Europe need to do? Putting aside the United States, what does Europe need to do from here on in?
BUDRYS: First of all, let me comment on your first part of the question --
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: On -- yes, on Ukraine's territorial integrity. It's not questionable.
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: That is the very reason what that occupation and annexation, illegal annexation of this -- of those territories was the reason for
Europe to impose the sanctions against Russia until Russia won't leave Europe, Lithuania will be against reducing sanctions against Russia. That
is no question about it. Ukraine's sovereignty in all its territory, that is in the borders of 1991, first.
Second, on what Europe has to do. Europe has to follow what Lithuania is doing and leading by example. We made the decision to strengthen our
defense and invest up to 6 percent starting from next year until 2030 -- we will reach the capabilities of our --defense capabilities to the level
where we will be able to achieve the results that we see as the very needed to deter Russians together with the troops that are in the region.
And this example also, we see that is followed by other nations that announce their plans to increase defense, first of all. And it worked as
the big wake-up call from U.S., and we appreciate it. We needed it. It was done previously, it didn't work. Now, it's the final time then start to
act.
Second thing, what we have to do, we have to support Ukraine more, and we have to integrate Ukraine into the western structures. EU and NATO, we
still think that is the fastest and most effective way to defend Ukraine. And we have to act.
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: We know all the problems in front of us, defense industry capacities, and may we -- there is a lack of the -- that was the huge
under-investment previously. All these problems have the solutions and those solutions are in front of us. And we have just to take the action.
And third thing, and it's really important we have to continue putting pressure on --
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: Russia with sanctions and adding to that frozen assets. We have to --
SOARES: Yes --
BUDRYS: Use those.
SOARES: Foreign Minister, I really appreciate you taking the time and being so generous with your time as we talk through these main talking
points that we heard there from Prime Minister Starmer and President Trump, of course, we are expecting a press conference, but your view is so
important at this very juncture. Thank you very much, sir.
BUDRYS: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, with the clock ticking on the first phase of the Israel-Hamas ceasefire, the sides agree to go back to the
negotiating table. Details on those talks just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Israel says it's sending negotiators to Cairo to continue talks on phase two of a ceasefire deal with Hamas. But an Israeli source tells CNN,
Israel will not withdraw its forces from the Gaza-Egypt border, a key requirement for second phase of the ceasefire and something Hamas says
would be a clear violation of the agreement.
Hamas returned the remains of four Israeli hostages just days before the first part of the fragile truce is set to expire. In exchange, Israel
released hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Meantime, the mother of Israeli hostage Alon Ohel was taken in October the 7th, recently learned her son is
alive. Earlier, she spoke to us about his condition. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IDIT OHEL, SON TAKEN HOSTAGE BY HAMAS: He's been in the tunnels for the whole time. He has a sharp nail in his eye, so he can't see in one eye. And
that he's being starved, getting maybe a piece of bread a day, and also being chained in his legs, so, he cannot move for the whole time. So, he is
a sign of life, but what kind of life is that?
You know, and I have to go with this for so many days, not knowing how he is, and now knowing that he is in this condition is even worse. So -- and
I'm a mother and I want to help my child. I want to go and, you know, hug him and give him what he wants. And I can't do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Yes, put yourself in her shoes there. I mean, this month, Alon turned 24 years old, he's spent more than 500 days now in captivity. One
Israeli hospital says at least nine people were injured in a suspected car ramming attack in the central part of the country. Police say the suspect
was a 53-year-old Palestinian man who was killed.
A 16-year-old girl was among those hurt in the incident, which is being investigated as a terrorist attack. I want to get more from our Jeremy
Diamond who is in Tel Aviv. So, Jeremy, just bring us up to date with the very latest there.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, unfortunately, Isa, this is certainly not the first time that we have seen this type of car
ramming attack happen in Israel. This time it happened in central Israel, in the town of Pardes Hanna, where this suspect apparently rammed into a
group of pedestrians who were standing at a bus stop.
Ten people were taken to the hospital, two of those were in serious condition. One of those was listed in critical condition, and indeed,
police, according to reports, chased down the driver as he attempted to flee, and he was then, quote, "neutralized" by the police, according to a
statement by the Israeli police.
We understand that the police do indeed consider this incident to be a suspected terror attack, and all of this coming at a very delicate moment
as questions arise about what the future of this ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas in Gaza will actually be. Early this morning,
Hamas handed over the last four Israeli hostages, the remains of those hostages were handed over to Israel, completing the -- its part in
releasing 33 Israeli hostages as part of the six-week agreement.
Israel released 643 Palestinian prisoners. But now the question is, what happens next? The Israeli Prime Minister has now agreed to send a
delegation to Cairo to pursue negotiations, but it does seem like the Israeli side is more interested in extending phase one, getting more
hostages out in exchange for Palestinian prisoners without making the big decision regarding ending the war in Gaza, the withdrawal of Israeli troops
and all of the other thorny issues that accompany those fragile negotiations.
Question is whether that's something Hamas will go for. But an Israeli source is indeed telling us that they hope to get more hostages out,
perhaps even as early as this Saturday. Isa.
SOARES: Jeremy Diamond, thank you, Jeremy. And still to come tonight, critical talks on Ukraine at the White House as we showed you at the top of
the hour. But will Keir Starmer achieve security guarantees for Kyiv? That is the big question we discuss. The Prime Minister is meeting with
President Trump. We are expecting a press conference, of course, we'll bring that to you as soon as it gets underway.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back everyone. Returning to our top story this hour, a meeting between British Prime Minister Keir Starmer and U.S. President
Donald Trump. Mr. Starmer has an important task in the Oval Office and that's to draw President Trump away from Russian President Vladimir Putin
and really firm up on security guarantees or backstops as we've been calling it for Ukraine.
The pair, as you saw in the last 30 minutes, appear to be pretty putting on a united front about finalizing the mineral deal between the U.S. and
Ukraine. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The deal, if we get it, is going to be hugely important. I don't think it would have happened if the space
hadn't been created for it by yourself. But if there's a deal in, we've got to make sure it's a deal that lasts, that is not temporary, but lasts. And
that's why we need to make sure that it's secure. And we've lent in and said, we'll play our part. And we've talked and we will talk about how we
work with yourself, Mr. President, to ensure that this deal is something which is not violated, because it's very important that if there is a deal,
we keep it.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And that will be -- and I think I can say that will be the easy part. That's the part we look forward to. Because
putting security there, that's the part we all look forward to. That's easy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Keir Starmer and French President Emmanuel Macron rushed to Washington in the week after Donald Trump sent shockwaves through the West.
Look how buddy they look there. Telling Europeans they must take responsibility for their own security.
[14:35:00]
Today's talks comes just a today, and context is important, before Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is supposed to visit the White
House, visit Washington. I'm joined now by Leslie Vinjamuri, director of the U.S. and America's program at Chatham House and CNN's Clare Sebastian,
two well-known faces here on the show.
Leslie, I mean, there's a lot for us -- a lot of ground for us to cover. So, let me start with you and what you took away from that, because to me
it seems that still miles apart.
LESLIE VINJAMURI, DIRECTOR, U.S. AND AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Oh, they're miles apart. But I have to say, we knew that going in and I
thought to be fair to the Prime Minister Starmer, very well played. A letter from the king. I mean, this really -- you know, apart from
everything that was said, just being able to hand that gift --
SOARES: To his ego.
VINJAMURI: -- to President Trump, applies to his ego, but to -- you know, to be fair, it really is symbolically -- it's very important. Obviously,
it's important to President Trump, it's important to Americans, it's important for the relationship, it really signifies that we're coming in to
win this relationship.
I think Starmer was also -- you know, he made it clear that that backstop is important. And in some ways, the most interesting thing that I heard
President Trump say was trust, but verify. We used to hear this all the time, right? Trust, but verify. That was the line. And that -- you know,
that was an opening.
That was a little bit of an opening that, you know, Donald Trump doesn't want to talk right now about backstops. He doesn't want to get into the
details of, you know, European -- anything specific about European troops. He wants to do, in my view, a sequenced deal.
And look, sequenced deals, when it comes to holding the line, a ceasefire, a second phase of negotiation, a third -- we're seeing this in the Middle
East, it's not unusual. It raises all sorts of questions that are absolutely critical. Starmer's putting them there. Trump is, you know,
plausible deniability on where he will go, but he wants to see that ceasefire and that peace before he's going to get into any real discussion.
SOARES: But these steps, Clare, are just, first of all, so many -- so much of what he says have been contradictory, right? He said don't want to talk
peacekeeping until there is a deal, and then, he said, actually that, you know, if he has people on the ground, work Americans on the ground, working
on this U.S. Ukraine mineral deal, it kind of -- that basically amounts to a backstop. And I don't know if you heard the Lithuanian minister. This
lack of clarity makes Europe incredibly nervous.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This makes their job harder, right? Because any deterrent against Russia is only as credible as Russia believes
it is. And that's why I think it's problematic that we saw him say, like, the rare earths deal as a backstop. It isn't. U.S. companies exploiting
Ukrainian critical minerals is not military muscle behind any kind of European troops that might be in Ukraine to try and police this deal.
And I think there was one really telling moment where he said -- where he was asked, you know, if British troops who were in Ukraine were attacked,
would you defend them? And he said, you know, oh, Brits can take care of themselves, you know, they're great. And then he said, oh, actually, you
know, if they need us, we'll be there for them.
But I think this is sort of a metaphor for this whole problem, right? He allowed the doubt to come in. Russia is watching this very closely. They're
looking for holes in the NATO alliance. They're looking for signs of weakness there. And allowing that doubt to creep in is something that has
been happening as we've seen this diplomacy ramp up over the past couple of weeks.
SOARES: And not only that, I mean, we've heard from -- we were hearing from a correspondent in Moscow today, and they'll be listening to this,
Leslie, and probably the press conference. They'll be rubbing their hands with glee because there have been no concessions from the United States.
It's just a lot of carrots.
I heard today, again, on the question of NATO, I'm sure you heard, or Ukraine joining NATO, that it's not going to happen. This is what led to
this problem in the first place. On territory, also saying on the land. Certainly, tries. So, President Putin's looking at this and thinking what?
VINJAMURI: I mean, there's no doubt that right now the reset that that President Trump is trying to achieve with Putin is deeply distressing, it's
deeply concerning for Europeans. But I think, again, his game right now, and it -- you know, there's a, lots of questions about whether it coins --
it can be achieved and whether he, as president of the United States, will even follow through, but I think his game right now is to push Europe to do
more, right? Not to say too much, certainly, not on live television about - -
SOARES: Do more in terms of GDP defense? Do more in terms of --
VINJAMURI: Well, clearly, the medium-term questions of spending on defense, but to be prepared to help hold the line on whatever deal is
agreed, it's not realistic, right? With -- Americans aren't going to go in and work in Ukraine if they don't feel protected.
As soon as Donald Trump sends Americans in, he's going to want a credible security protection for them.
SEBASTIAN: So, that's how you see the play eventually you think he'll be reeled back?
VINJAMURI: I think it's not credible to say that Americans will be on the ground, whether they're troops or just, you know, people earning a living,
without some sort of security protection.
[14:40:00]
And I don't think Donald Trump's going to leave that to Europe to guarantee, because does he want to be the U.S. president that sees
Americans killed in Ukraine? Absolutely not. And people tend to go back, they say, he doesn't want to be the American president who loses Ukraine in
the way that Joe Biden was seen to have lost Afghanistan in a chaotic withdrawal.
So, there are -- you know, there are checks that, I think, you know, it doesn't instill confidence in people, it's -- there's so much uncertainty
that the conversation that the sort of -- you know, the warming up to Putin is deeply distressing, but I do think that there are checks. There were
other interesting things in that conversation also. I won't come to them yet, but --
SOARES: Yes, and I'll come back because I want to tap into the Russian side because Clare's so tapped into this, because he was asked by numerous
times and whether do you think Putin will invade again? Can he be trusted? I think he will keep his word, Clare. And this is what we see from Macron,
what President Macron, we saw from Prime Minister Stamer, trying to warn him about, don't take him at his word. Do you think that message came
across?
SEBASTIAN: I think he has not received that message yet, and Zelenskyy is trying to --
SOARES: Understatement?
SEBASTIAN: Yes, President Zelenskyy said this week that he had sent, via General Kellogg, a list to President Trump of all the times in the past
where Russia has violated ceasefires. I mean, it took a day after signing the Minsk agreements for fighting to ramp up again in 2015 on the Eastern
Front. And I think, you know, he didn't provide any evidence as to why, today -- President Trump, why he trusted Vladimir Putin and why he thought
that a deal would hold.
He only said, look, we've been through so much together, we both went through the, quote/unquote, "Russia hoax" together. But aside from that, he
doesn't offer any concrete reason as to why he should believe President Putin when he says he should stick by a ceasefire.
And look, all of this is good news for Moscow. I mean, they are watching really closely. President Trump, even -- President Putin, rather, even said
today that he was warning against Western elites trying to sabotage this reset between Russia and the U.S. And he was going to use intelligence
services and diplomats to try and thwart those efforts. So, they're watching really closely.
As I said, they're looking for signs of weakness. They're looking for holes in NATO. And they are in absolutely no mood, but the wind in their sails
from this reset to make any concession whatsoever.
SOARES: Yes, and I think -- and I'm sure if it was Putin -- I think it was Putin, not Peskov, who said -- he used the word hope in terms of this deal.
But looking ahead, let's focus on tomorrow because we're still waiting to hear a press conference from both leaders, but we are waiting, of course,
for President Zelenskyy.
The rapport that these two have had, and Macron, very different from Zelenskyy. The relationship has soured. President Trump called President
Zelenskyy a dictator, although today he was actually asked, did I say that? What are we likely to see? Because they're also not on the same page in
terms of this framework. One calls it a framework, one calls it a deal. What are we likely to see tomorrow, you think, Leslie?
VINJAMURI: You know, I don't see very many meetings that take place in Washington with President Trump going badly on the day. He just -- he
enjoys the interaction, the intimacy of the -- two people with cameras. And so, I think the day itself is actually not indicative of what comes
afterwards.
And this is, you know, obviously a potential problem for the prime minister as well. You know, you have one feeling, you hear one set of things and
then, you turn around and suddenly, you know, there's a headline that you didn't anticipate.
But -- so, I don't actually anticipate very much negative. I think that there will be, you know, warm talk. Of course, we can achieve this deal. Of
course, we care about Ukraine. No promises. I mean, NATO, I think we're -- this is pretty clear where this administration stands or this president
stands, you know, we're only lucky right now that he's not saying that the U.S. is coming out of NATO, let alone expanding NATO.
But I think a tough line in saying, you know, you've got to engage in this question of getting a deal and he's -- you know, President Trump keeps
saying it's the deal that's the hard part not really what comes next, and we know it's the -- it's actually the enforcement. It's the staying power
of the deal.
SOARES: Yes, as we heard, you know Stamer trying to emphasize, you know, the importance of not being violated and President Trump saying, well,
that's -- you know, that's not going to be a problem. So, we shall see where that leads. We've got to wait for that press conference We are
keeping an eye on the White House. And of course, tomorrow's deal signing, if there is a deal sign between both men.
Clare, thank you very much, Leslie, we appreciate it.
VINJAMURI: Thanks.
SEBASTIAN: And still to come right here tonight, people gather to support some U.S. government workers as they pack up and leave their headquarters.
It turned out to be, well, a pretty emotional farewell. We'll hear from some of their stories after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Now, to the latest on the funding battle on Capitol Hill, we are seeing the real-life impact of the dismantling of USAID. And it's happening
in Washington, D.C. over the next few days. Supporters have been applauded -- applaud terminating. You can see the employees and those placed on leave
who are picking up their belongings from USAID headquarters.
Each person, get this, was given basically 15 minutes to sort out their workspace and leave. The agency become one of the first cut, if you
remember, by DOGE in what's turned out to be a rather chaotic moment and chaotic month for U.S. government workers. Our Arlette Saenz has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: These fired staffers have been giving 15-minute windows where they can come in and pack up their
desks and other items as they are preparing to leave the agency.
As you can see right behind me, there are a little over a dozen people here who have showed up. They say this is not a protest, but this is meant to
show support for those USAID staffers who are coming here to collect their belongings today.
On Sunday, about 2,000 USAID staffers began to learn that they were being laid off and thousands more were put on administrative leave. USAID is
facing some of the most drastic cuts since President Trump came into office in this second term.
And I had a chance to speak with a union representative with the American Foreign Service Association about how they feel the administration has
handled these cuts. Take a listen to that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been quite tragic. I think there's been a lot of lack of communication in general about what's happening to USAID. Staff
don't know day in and day out what they're supposed to do. We've had our e- mails -- most people have had their e-mail accounts shut off. So, they're getting notices third-party from Facebook groups and from chat groups. So,
it's really a haphazard way to tell people what to do and how to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAENZ: So, a lot of uncertainty that has been facing thousands of workers who are either direct hire, employees with USAID, or federal contractors. I
was up on Capitol Hill a bit earlier in the week with some people who had recently been laid off. One woman telling me that she had received a notice
on Sunday saying she had been placed on administrative leave and just one day later, received another notification that she had been terminated.
So, here we are expecting to see staffers beginning to come pick up some of their belongings, a slice, a window into the human impact of some of these
cuts that have been made by the Trump administration in the start of his term.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks Arlette Saenz there for that report. And still to come tonight, legendary actor Gene Hackman and his wife have been found
dead in their home. We'll have a live report and really explain why an investigation is now underway. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: Legendary actor Gene Hackman, along with his wife and dog, have been found dead at their home in New Mexico. The sheriff in Santa Fe County
confirmed the couple was discovered on Wednesday. While an investigation is underway, right now, officials do not believe foul play was involved.
95-year-old Hackman is a two-time Oscar winner with a career that really span decades. Some of his most famous roles coming in, of course, classics
such as "The French Connection," "Unforgiven," "1978 Superman," and for the younger generation, "The Firm."
Joining us now from Los Angeles is our Elizabeth Wagmeister. Elizabeth, I understand from my team that you have heard a call that was identified --
someone has identified themselves as a caretaker who called 911. What can - - what was said in that call? What can you tell us?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we have just obtained the 911 call that was made. As you've said, someone who identified
themselves as a caretaker on the property of Gene Hackman's home in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
In this call, the caretaker sounds frantic and is panicking. They say that they see two bodies from outside through a window and they are frantically
pleading with the dispatcher to send someone to the home. So, now giving us some more indication of how these bodies were first discovered.
And according to the search warrant, which our team has obtained, authorities did say a few moments ago, because we got access to this 911
call, that maintenance workers were the first to find Gene Hackman and his wife. So, this clear picture coming into play here, but still so many
questions.
As you noted, authorities said first thing this morning that no foul play is suspected. The investigation is ongoing. But I want to read you a part
of the search warrant here. Authorities say, quote, "The circumstances surrounding the death of the two deceased individuals is suspicious enough
in nature to require a thorough search and investigation."
Now, earlier today, I told you that we had heard that a gas company was assisting in this investigation. But now, we have learned, according to
this search warrant, authorities say that there were no visible signs of a carbon monoxide leak or any poisoning. So, again, adding to the mystery of
this entire situation.
[14:55:00]
Now, some other details from this search warrant are that Gene Hackman and his wife, their bodies were found in different rooms of the home. Gene
Hackman was found in a room near the kitchen, and his wife was found in the bathroom near a space heater, and also there was a bottle of prescription
pills on the counter with some pills on that counter.
Now, their dog, who also was found deceased, was found in a closet of that bathroom where the wife was. So, some very disturbing and tragic details as
this all unfolds. Authorities also said in the search warrant that the bodies appeared to have been deceased for a few days when they were found.
SOARES: Yes. In the meantime, of course, we are heading into the Oscars this weekend. And I imagine, very briefly, in about 15 seconds have been an
outpouring of tributes.
WAGMEISTER: Yes, and I actually just got brand-new reporting for you. I hear from a source very close to the Oscars that Gene Hackman will, in
fact, be honored at this ceremony. The exact plans are still being worked out, but there will be a tribute to him this Sunday.
SOARES: Appreciate it. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you very much. And that does it for us for tonight. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Omar Jimenez
is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
