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Isa Soares Tonight
Zelenskyy Leaves White House Early After Explosive Meeting With Trump; Putin's Aide And Special Envoy Calls Heated Exchange Between Trump And Zelenskyy "Historic"; Official: Trump Ordered Ukrainians To Be Told To Leave WH; Trump: Zelenskyy Can Come Back When He Is Ready For Peace; Vatican: Pope Put On Breathing Machine After Sudden Episode. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 28, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News!
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, and a very warm welcome, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, I'm going to take you to the White House, live images
coming to us here after really stunning, abrupt and very bitter ending to talks between U.S. President Donald Trump and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
of Ukraine.
Just moments ago, an extraordinary moment. Mr. Zelenskyy left the White House without signing a deal to give the U.S. access to Ukraine's natural
resources in exchange for help ending Russia's invasion. A news conference originally scheduled for this hour has been canceled after what can only be
described as really jaw-dropping and fiery exchange earlier from the Oval Office.
An all-out shouting match between world leaders that it's almost never seen by the public. I've never seen anything like this. And here's how it all
unfolded in front of the White House cameras. And really just bear this in mind, millions of people watching around the world. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your message for them?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, if I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal. You want me to say
really terrible things about Putin, and then say, hi, Vladimir, how are we doing on the deal? It doesn't work that way. I'm not aligned with Putin.
I'm not aligned with anybody.
I'm aligned with the United States of America. And for the good of the world, I'm aligned with the world. And I want to get this thing over with.
You see the hatred he's got for Putin, it's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. He's got tremendous hatred, and I understand
that.
But I can tell you, the other side is exactly in love with, you know, him either. So, it's not a question of alignment. I have to -- I'm aligned
with the world. I want to get the thing set. I'm aligned with Europe. I want to see if we can get this thing done. You want me to be tough? I can
be tougher than any human being you've ever seen.
I'd be so tough, but you're never going to get a deal that way. So, that's the way it goes. One more question.
(CROSSTALK)
JAMES DAVID VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will respond to this. So, look, for four years, the United States of America, we had a
President who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of
the country.
The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and
pretending that the President of the United States' words mattered more than the President of the United States' actions. What makes America a good
country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE: Can I ask you?
VANCE: Sure.
ZELENSKYY: Yes?
VANCE: Yes.
ZELENSKYY: OK, so, he occupied it, our parts -- big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So, he occupied it on 2014. So, during a lot of years -
- I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was Obama, then President Obama then, President Trump, then President Biden, now the
President Trump.
And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took -- he killed people. You know, what
the contact --
TRUMP: Twenty-fifteen --
ZELENSKYY: Twenty fourteen --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty fourteen and 2015 --
TRUMP: Oh, 2014 --
ZELENSKYY: Yes, so, he killed --
TRUMP: I was not here --
ZELENSKYY: Yes, but --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly right --
ZELENSKYY: Yes, but during 2014 until 2022, you know, well, the situation the same. People have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him.
You know that we had conversations with him. A lot of conversation -- my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me like a new President, in
2019, I signed with him the deal, I signed with him, Macron and Merkel, we signed ceasefire.
All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him, gas contract, gas contract. Yes. But after that, he broke the ceasefire.
[14:05:00]
He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy J.D.,
you are speaking about? What do you mean?
VANCE: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country --
ZELENSKYY: Yes, but if you are not strong --
VANCE: Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this
in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the frontlines because you have manpower problems.
You should be thanking the President --
ZELENSKYY: Have you ever --
VANCE: For trying to bring an end to this conflict --
ZELENSKYY: Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?
VANCE: I have been to --
ZELENSKYY: Come once --
VANCE: I have actually -- I have actually watched and seen the stories and I know what happens is, you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda
tour, Mr. President -- do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?
ZELENSKYY: We have problems --
VANCE: And do you think that it's respectful --
ZELENSKYY: I'll answer --
VANCE: To come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is prying to -- trying to prevent the
destruction of your country?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of -- a lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning.
VANCE: Sure.
ZELENSKYY: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the
future. God bless --
TRUMP: You don't know that --
ZELENSKYY: God bless --
TRUMP: You don't know that --
ZELENSKYY: God bless you're not at a war --
TRUMP: You've got to -- don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
ZELENSKYY: I'm not telling you, I'm only saying how --
TRUMP: Because you're in no position to dictate that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's exactly what you're doing --
ZELENSKYY: I'm not dictating --
TRUMP: You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.
ZELENSKYY: You will --
TRUMP: We're going to feel very good --
ZELENSKYY: You will feel influenced --
TRUMP: We're going to feel very good and very strong --
ZELENSKYY: I'm telling you, you will feel influenced --
TRUMP: You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself --
ZELENSKYY: From the very --
TRUMP: To be in a very bad position --
ZELENSKYY: From the very position --
TRUMP: And he --
ZELENSKYY: Of the war --
TRUMP: Happens to be right of that --
ZELENSKYY: From the very beginning of the war, Mr. Trump --
TRUMP: You're not in a good position.
ZELENSKYY: I was --
TRUMP: You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards --
ZELENSKYY: I'm not playing cards --
TRUMP: Right now, you don't know --
ZELENSKYY: I want to see this, Mr. President --
TRUMP: You're playing cards. You're playing cards --
ZELENSKYY: I want to see this --
TRUMP: You're gambling --
ZELENSKYY: I'm the President in war --
TRUMP: With the lives of millions of people.
ZELENSKYY: You think --
TRUMP: You're gambling with World War III.
ZELENSKYY: What do you expect --
TRUMP: You're gambling --
ZELENSKYY: What else we gamble(ph)?
TRUMP: With World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you --
ZELENSKYY: I am -- with all the respect to you --
TRUMP: Far more than a lot of people said --
ZELENSKYY: I already have respect --
TRUMP: They should have.
VANCE: Have you said thank you once this entire meeting?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of times --
VANCE: No, in this entire meeting --
ZELENSKYY: Even today --
VANCE: Have you said thank you?
ZELENSKYY: Even today.
VANCE: You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America
--
ZELENSKYY: Wow --
VANCE: And the President who is trying to save your country.
ZELENSKYY: Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can --
TRUMP: He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble --
ZELENSKYY: Can I -- can I -- can I also --
TRUMP: Wait a minute. No, you've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning --
ZELENSKYY: I know --
TRUMP: You're not winning this.
ZELENSKYY: I --
TRUMP: You have a damn good chance of coming out OK --
ZELENSKYY: Winning, we are staying --
TRUMP: Because of us.
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. We've been alone, and we are thankful.
I said thanks --
TRUMP: You haven't been alone --
ZELENSKYY: In this cabinet --
TRUMP: You haven't been alone --
ZELENSKYY: And not only in this cabinet --
TRUMP: We gave you through --
ZELENSKYY: I said --
TRUMP: This stupid President, $350 billion.
ZELENSKYY: You voted for your President --
TRUMP: We gave you military equipment --
ZELENSKYY: You voted for your President --
TRUMP: And your men are brave, but they had to use our military --
ZELENSKYY: What about first of all --
TRUMP: If you didn't have --
ZELENSKYY: You invited --
TRUMP: Our military equipment --
ZELENSKYY: You invited me to speak --
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.
ZELENSKYY: In three --
TRUMP: OK?
ZELENSKYY: Days, I heard it from Putin in three days. This is something --
TRUMP: Maybe less --
ZELENSKYY: In two weeks, of course, yes.
TRUMP: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you --
VANCE: Say thank you --
ZELENSKYY: I said a lot of times separate --
VANCE: Except that there --
ZELENSKYY: To American people --
VANCE: Except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when
you're wrong. We know that you're wrong --
TRUMP: But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on.
VANCE: Yes sir --
TRUMP: I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful --
ZELENSKYY: I'm thankful --
TRUMP: You don't have the cards. You're buried there, your people are dying --
ZELENSKYY: I can tell you, I know --
TRUMP: You're running low on soldiers, listen --
ZELENSKYY: Don't -- please, Mr. President --
TRUMP: You're running low on soldiers, it would be a damn good thing --
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Then you tell us, I don't want a ceasefire, I don't want a ceasefire. I want to go and I want this. Look, if you can get a ceasefire
right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop --
ZELENSKYY: Of course --
TRUMP: Getting killed.
ZELENSKYY: Of course, we want to stop the war, but I --
TRUMP: But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire --
ZELENSKYY: But I said to you --
TRUMP: I want a ceasefire --
ZELENSKYY: With guarantees --
TRUMP: Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than any agreement.
ZELENSKYY: Ask all our people about ceasefire, what they think.
TRUMP: That wasn't with me --
ZELENSKYY: It doesn't matter for you what --
TRUMP: That wasn't with me. That was with a guy named Biden who is not a smart person.
ZELENSKYY: But this is your -- this is your --
TRUMP: That was with -- that was with Obama --
ZELENSKYY: It was your President --
TRUMP: Excuse me? That was with Obama who gave you sheetz(ph) and I gave you javelins.
ZELENSKYY: Yes.
TRUMP: I gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheetz(ph). In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheetz(ph) and Trump gave
javelins. You've got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don't have
any cards.
[14:10:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more question to Mr. Vice President -- I'm sorry, here.
TRUMP: It will be a tough deal to make because the attitudes have to change.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if Russia breaks ceasefire? What if Russia breaks peace talks? What do you do then? I understand that it's a heated
conversation right now --
TRUMP: What are you saying?
VANCE: She's asking what if Russia breaks the ceasefire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if Russia, what if Putin breaks the ceasefire?
TRUMP: What if -- what if anything? What if a bomb drops on your head right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they kind of --
TRUMP: OK, what if they broke it? I don't know, they broke it with Biden because Biden didn't respect him. They didn't respect Obama. They respect
me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But --
TRUMP: Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch-hunt where they used him and Russia, you ever hear of
that deal? That was a phony -- that was a phony Hunter Biden-Joe Biden scam. Hillary Clinton, Shifty Adam Schiff, it was a Democrat scam. And he
had to go through that. And he did go through it, we didn't end up in a war.
And he went through it. He was accused of all that stuff, he had nothing to do with it. It came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom. It came out of Hunter
Biden's bedroom. It was disgusting. And then they said, oh, the laptop from hell was made by Russia, the 51 agents. The whole thing was a scam. And he
had to put up with that. He was being accused of all that stuff.
All I can say is this, he might have broken deals with Obama and Bush, and he might have broken them with Biden. He did -- maybe he didn't. I don't
know what happened, but he didn't break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don't know if he can make a deal. The problem is, I've empowered
you to be a tough guy, and I don't think you'd be a tough guy without the United States.
And your people are very brave.
ZELENSKYY: Thank you.
TRUMP: But you either are going to make a deal or we're out. And if we're out, you'll fight it out. I don't think it's going to be pretty, but you'll
fight it out. But you don't have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position. But you're not acting at all thankful.
And that's not a nice thing. I'll be honest. That's not a nice thing.
All right, I think we've seen enough. What do you think?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: This is -- this is going to be great television, I will say that. All right, we'll see what we can do about putting it together.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Truly remarkable. Well, in a social media post just a short time later, President Trump slammed Mr. Zelenskyy, saying, quote, "he
disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back", he said, "when he is ready for peace." Meanwhile, the
Russian Presidents special envoy Kirill Dmitriev, is calling the exchange between both leaders historic.
Let's go straight to the White House, our Kevin Liptak was listening in to all of this. And Kevin, as I was saying, seeing this play out, my hands too
were on my head, I could not believe what I was seeing. Truly remarkable. President Zelenskyy has left, it seems, from what I understand, no press
conference and no deal.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right. You know, I've been around for a lot of these Oval Office meetings, I don't
think I ever expected to see something quite like this. I think it's fair to say this was completely unprecedented in at least modern presidential
history to see essentially, the American President, with the help of his Vice President, berating the war-time leader who had come to visit him, who
had come to discuss the future of his country, security guarantees, the mineral deal.
All of that now seems to be out the window. Just to sort of fill you in on what exactly happened between when that meeting ended and right now, there
is about an hour of time between when that meeting ended and when we saw Zelenskyy leave the West Wing Portico, get into his SUV and pull away from
the White House.
I understand from an American official that, that minerals deal, that he was here at the White House to sign has not been signed. And that joint
press conference that he was set to convene with President Trump up in the East Room no longer happening. You know, I think it's fair to say that this
is -- now, we're in uncharted territory.
What exactly is the future of the American relationship of ties between Washington and Kyiv? As you mentioned, the President in that tweet about an
hour ago says that Zelenskyy can come back when he is ready for peace. You know, I think heading into this, there were a lot of questions about
whether Zelenskyy's approach would match President Trump's sort of like of being flattered.
You know, Zelenskyy is not someone who goes to these meetings -- these meetings prepared to flatter people. He wants to get something out of them.
That's something that rubbed the Biden administration the wrong way. But certainly, it never broke out into something like we've just witnessed just
now.
[14:15:00]
And I think the real question is, where does this -- where does this take us now? What happens going forward? You know, I think there was a real sort
of moment in that Oval Office right before the part that you just played when things did seem to be going somewhat well. You know, the two men
seemed to be getting on just fine. And it wasn't until Vice President Vance sort of interjected into the meeting that things really got very heated.
And I think that kind of represents the role that Vance plays in this administration in some ways. He has been much more of a vocal opponent of
continued American assistance to Ukraine than Trump has. And that really did seem to sort of throw a match on the -- on the -- on the whole
situation.
And so, you know, I think now we'll have to go back to the Ukrainians, the Americans, and see where exactly this is going. One thing that I think is
interesting, once the cameras were out of the room, there was a sense that at least, on the Zelenskyy side of things, that maybe they would be able to
get things back on track.
But the Americans were clear that he was no longer welcome in the White House. They essentially asked him to leave, and he did just that.
SOARES: So, are you -- are you -- are you hinting there and clarify this to me, Kevin. Was he told to leave? Was he -- was he basically told to leave
the White House, President Zelenskyy, that is?
LIPTAK: Well, that's essentially what we're hearing from American officials. And we'll --
SOARES: OK --
LIPTAK: Have to talk to our -- their Ukrainian counterparts as well. But I think at a certain point, it was probably just clear that there was nothing
left for Zelenskyy --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: To say to Trump that could help repair what had just taken place. Now, Zelenskyy had been in Washington, you know, for almost a day before
this meeting. He had talked to some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, Republicans and Democrats about how they expected all this to proceed.
He'd had also, after this, been planning to sit for an interview with "Fox News". And so, we could potentially hear from him later today to get his
accounting of all of this. But you know, having, you know -- been walking around the West Wing today, things were not happy back there after this
meeting took place.
When you talk to Trump's aides and listen to them, they were disrespected. They felt disrespected. They said the President felt disrespected. You
know, I think we can assess whether disrespect was intended just by watching that video, I'm not sure that it was. But if Zelenskyy is being
spoken to in the way that Vance was speaking to him, you can only naturally expect the tensions to flare and the voices to rise.
But that is not how Donald Trump likes being talked to. I think, you know, just listening to their -- I don't think we have ever heard Trump as angry
or as allowed to be as angry in public as we did during this meeting. And I think that just tells you how he felt about the situation, but also sort of
how the tensions had been building up for so long with Zelenskyy. This was sort of a moment for them all to be blown out into the public, which is --
SOARES: Yes --
LIPTAK: Just extraordinary.
SOARES: Yes, there was bad blood between them. But you know what we have seen just in the last week with really the diplomatic push that we're
seeing from President Macron earlier in the week, from Prime Minister Keir Starmer yesterday, it seemed that we were seeing a shift, right? But
understandably, why would you want to stay if you're being humiliated and berated in that way?
Kevin Liptak, I know you'll continue pushing on the point of whether he was asked to leave or told to leave, appreciate it, thank you very much, Kevin.
Let's get a view really from Kyiv now. Andriy Zagorodnyuk is a former Ukrainian Defense Minister, he's currently a Distinguished Fellow at the
Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center, well-known face here on the show.
Andriy, great to have you back on the show. Look, I was gobsmacked when I saw what I saw and what I heard, and incredibly uncomfortable, incredibly
uncomfortable to watch. Give me your reaction first of all.
ANDRIY ZAGORODNYUK, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL EURASIA CENTER: Well, obviously it was extremely uncomfortable and shocking. I'm in Kyiv,
Ukraine. There's lots of people over the last hour discuss that, and certainly, we're all worried about like where this is going. Generally
speaking, it's not in the strategic interest of Ukraine to break with the United States.
That's obvious. I don't think it makes sense for the United States as well. And we somehow need to amend that. But the thing is that, obviously also
that discussion, if we just put all emotions away, it highlights the certain like fundamental differences in understanding where we should go,
because we need to -- it's very difficult.
It's very difficult to put emotions away because when you -- when we see these heated exchanges, it's like -- you look at that, and of course -- but
we need to do that and just to distill the messages, and that some messages are clearly showing that for White House administration right now, a
ceasefire is the goal.
And that's basically whatever the terms are, we need to get the ceasefire. For Zelenskyy, he says that ceasefire if to translate into military
language, it's -- without the security guarantees, it just becomes an operational pause, which then Russians can use to regroup and start again.
[14:20:00]
And so, he says that the key thing for this is the -- is the security guarantees, which is the fact, and all security analysts in Ukraine and
Europe, and most in the United States, they agree with that. The security guarantees will distinguish this between the ceasefire, between they
actually lasting peace and not.
And it seems like that's where the -- that's where the difference is. And of course, it has to be sorted in a sort of negotiations and discussion
manner, perhaps between Kyiv and Washington D.C., but it seems like it's a -- it's a tough call right now.
SOARES: It certainly does. Look, he left the White House --
ZAGORODNYUK: Yes --
SOARES: Told to leave the White House from what we understand. No deal, no press conference. This is, Andriy, just for our viewers around the world,
this is Ukraine's biggest supporter, strongest ally here in this war. Really felt -- feeling very much like an ambush. Do you think, Andriy, just
to get your perspective, do you think that perhaps President Zelenskyy should have been slightly more differential when he was asked some of the
questions? He could have handled it better.
ZAGORODNYUK: It's tough to say being in that situation back there after the flight, after the stress of war for all these years, et cetera. It's
difficult to say what he should have done. The same thing we clearly see in some a little bit of provocative or maybe not a little bit provocative
statements from the J.D. Vance's side --
SOARES: Yes --
ZAGORODNYUK: For instance which you just mentioned now. So, certainly, diplomacy between U.S. and Ukraine has to remain because we are allies. We
like absolutely on the same side. We are like in a -- on a side of like of good, you know, and that doesn't help anyone except -- like this situations
of course, they -- like Russia is probably obviously happy about that.
But that doesn't help the international security, the fact that Russians are happy. So --
SOARES: Yes --
ZAGORODNYUK: So, it's difficult to say, but we clearly -- we clearly need to collaborate further. That's absolutely like 100 percent.
SOARES: Can you very briefly, Andriy, just give me a sense of what you're hearing from Ukrainians following on from this press conference, just very
briefly.
ZAGORODNYUK: Well, Zelenskyy came to sign a mineral deal. The mineral deal, which was prepared, not easy, but it was --
SOARES: Yes --
ZAGORODNYUK: Done. And it was apparently quite good for both sides. So, it's actually -- we found that, you know, middle ground on which like
everybody was happy and everybody -- we're obviously expecting this to be signed, and that would be like a huge big step because it would install the
western interests of U.S. economy and protection, partial --
SOARES: Yes --
ZAGORODNYUK: At least, and so on. And it went not that way. And so, we feel like it needs to be -- we need to amend the relationship, and they should
not turn into the -- a serious big trouble between the countries. We cannot afford that.
SOARES: Yes, I --
ZAGORODNYUK: Absolutely, I think collectively, we -- none of that -- like democratic world cannot afford that. Let's put it --
SOARES: Yes --
ZAGORODNYUK: This way.
SOARES: Let's see how they can remedy this. President Trump saying on Truth Social, he disrespected the United States of America. He can come back when
he's ready for peace. Really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us, Andriy, as always, thank you very much. And we will continue our breaking
news coverage here after this short break. Don't go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: If you're joining us at the top of the hour, we played a snippet, really, of what was a truly angry exchange in the Oval Office, a shouting
match just a short while ago between U.S. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. President Trump telling Zelenskyy
to either make a deal or wear out.
Russian President Vladimir Putin, special envoy Kirill Dmitriev called the exchange historic. Let's bring in our chief global affairs correspondent
Matthew Chance, and he joins us now from Moscow. And Matthew, I imagine that the Kremlin is watching this and rubbing their hands with glee.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you'd imagine that. And I know for a fact that Russian officials watch with some
astonishment as the spectacle played out. Although, you know, most Russian officials, certainly from the Kremlin at the highest level, have been
reluctant to go on record and to express their reaction so far. But that might come.
But look, I've got a couple of bits and bobs of Russian reaction from officials and others to paint a sort of a picture of the sort of mood in
the corridors of power as they watched this unfold. You know, Kirill Dmitriev, who is a negotiator and a special envoy of President Putin to the
U.S.-Russia negotiations. He was in Riyadh a couple of weeks ago. He called it historic.
That's all he said. But it's an indication of the about-turn and the departure from the previous position of Washington when it comes to Ukraine
here, of course, they had been supporting militarily and politically. Maria Zakharova; who's the spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, saying
it was a miracle that Trump and Vance didn't slap Zelenskyy in the face, I've slightly paraphrased there, because I haven't got the quote right in
front of me.
But that's the essence of what she said. Dmitry Medvedev; who is a former Russian President and Prime Minister, a close ally of Putin, he's given to
pretty outlandish, outspoken statements. But he went on social media calling Zelenskyy an insolent pig, is how he's phrased it. But you know,
nevertheless, you know, you get a sense from all of this that the Kremlin, those in power here in Russia are very much enjoying what is playing out in
front of them on their television screens. Isa.
SOARES: Do we know then where this leaves this ceasefire, this peace deal? Because obviously, we know the Americans have been talking to the Russians
about trying to get through this -- through the line. What has been happening just in the last 48 hours before this, before we saw President
Zelenskyy here?
CHANCE: Yes, well, I mean, look, I mean, what's been happening publicly is not very much. There have been --
SOARES: Yes --
CHANCE: Various bilateral negotiations between the United States and Russia. But we, of course, learned from President Putin that there's been
another phone call -- sorry, from President Trump. There has been another phone call with President Putin. We don't know what was discussed, there's
not been a readout from either side.
But it did give us a sort of, you know, kind of insight into the fact, which is what many people suspected, is that negotiations are taking place
behind closed doors in private, even at the highest level. And so, you know, it's -- you know, you can imagine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy going to
Washington and basically, you know, being told what the fate of his country is going to be as these negotiations take place over the top of his head,
that he would have reacted, you know, extremely badly to this.
But again, you know, in terms of where we go now with the peace talks and the -- you know, potential, you know, ceasefire in this very bloody
conflict that's been underway for the past three years in Ukraine, that's unclear. And I'm not sure it's something the Kremlin are that bothered
about? I mean, it's the whole process that they benefit from.
The fact that they're in face-to-face negotiations with the White House, they're being dealt with at the highest level, at the top diplomatic table.
The fact that disunity in the western alliance has been, you know, kind of bursting out almost every day since President Trump was inaugurated, that
is all a big positive result for the Kremlin watching this.
[14:30:11]
SOARES: Thank you very much. Matthew Charles there for us in Moscow. Well, we're getting some more details some more color really of what unfolded at
the White House. We're hearing from our Kaitlan Collins, from my colleague, that after that very -- that exchange where President Zelenskyy was berated
there, that President Trump consulted Vice President J.D. Vance. He also consulted Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the Treasury Secretary as well,
and other top advisers. And that was when President Trump ultimately decided that Zelenskyy was "not in a place to negotiate."
He then, as has been reported by my colleague, Kaitlan Collins, he then directed Rubio and his National Security advisor Mike Waltz to deliver the
message, it was time for Zelenskyy to leave. And that's what we heard from the top of the hour that President Zelenskyy was asked to leave.
In the last few minutes we've also seen a tweet from Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I'm going to ask my team if they have it to bring it up, but we'll get it
to you as soon as we have, but you just have to trust me here. Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying, thank you, America. Thank you for your support. Thank you
for this visit. Thank you POTUS, Congress, and the American people. Ukraine needs just and lasting peace and we are working exactly for that.
We'll bring that to you as we get it. This is important of course because he was accused of not acting at all thankful. That's what President Trump
told President Zelenskyy.
Let's get the reaction from my next guest, Carl Bildt. He's the former prime minister of Sweden and co-chair of the European Council on Foreign
Relations. And Carl, I'm seeing you shaking your head. You and I spoke two days ago and there was so much hope, of course, of getting this backstop
and getting this steal. It seems that we're very far away from that. Just your reaction to what unfolded.
CARL BILDT, FORMER PRIME MINISTER, SWEDEN: It was most remarkable. I suspect they ran out of champagne in the Kremlin several weeks ago because
what we've seen in the last few weeks has been the one strange move by the Americans after that. And the end conclusion so far is that the seriousness
of American power is something to be doubted.
You have the Vice President attacking President Zelenskyy in the way he did. And that really initiated the entire sequence of things. There was an
element between Zelenskyy and Trump as well, but I think it was the Vice President really took it to another level of attacking the President of
Ukraine. Can anyone pick up the pieces of this? I don't know. Can the United States return as a serious diplomatic power? That looks debatable at
the moment.
SOARES: And Donald Trump, President Trump took to social media and he said he can come back --talking about President Zelenskyy -- he can come back
when he's ready for peace. Look, we knew there was already bad blood. You and I spoke about this just two days ago between them. But they've come a
long way in the diplomacy, right, with Prime Minister Starmer also with President Macron.
But today we heard you're not in a good position, you are gambling with World War III, you have -- you're not acting at all thankful. Just you
know, make a deal or we're out. Basically berating him -- berating him in front of the cameras. Does this -- do you worry this puts U.S. aid in doubt
here?
BILDT: Well, it certainly does. And it puts the -- yes, it might well be that Americans would leave the scene. But that will be something for Europe
to step up. That is going to be difficult but is absolutely necessary. I can understand President Zelenskyy because if you have President Trump
talking to President Putin on the future of Ukraine without Ukraine being there, that is fairly natural that President Zelenskyy has some fairly
tough questions to President Trump about that because it's his country, it's his future, and he's not involved in it.
And he's essentially said to -- that he has abide by what the White House says. I mean, it's a -- it's remarkable. It's historic. It will have
consequences. We'll see if the pieces can be picked up.
SOARES: And what -- the point he was trying to make, and this is what I took away, I wonder if you saw the same thing, was that he was saying
diplomacy hasn't stopped, right? Just words haven't really stopped Putin. We've seen that time and time again. We need that assurances. We need that
security guarantee. So, then Vice President Vance then pushed him.
Where then -- what position -- what does Europe do now in terms -- do we see -- do we see President Macron, do we see Prime Minister Starmer and
others picking up the phone trying to build this? Can they turn this around?
BILDT: Well, there will be -- there will be meeting in London on Sunday. There's a meeting a European Summit a couple days later, so they will be
fairly busy. But I mean, the essence of the thing remains the same. We need to increase the support for Ukraine so they can stand up to Russia. We need
to increase the pressure on Putin so he's ready not only for a ceasefire but for something that is more durable, not just a pause in the fire. those
are the essence of the thing. And that hopefully the Americans will join into. But if they want to pressure Zelenskyy into something that he ceases
capitulation, that's simply not going to work.
[14:35:43]
SOARES: Yes. And what we haven't heard, and what we haven't seen, and you and I discussed this, is you know, them asking Russia for anything. We
haven't seen any concessions from Russia and that is important just in the last --
BILDT: No.
SOARES: Right? That's what we haven't seen it at all. Mr. Bildt, we really appreciate you taking the time as always. You're generous for your time
this week. Thank you very much.
We'll continue our breaking news coverage after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Take you back to our breaking news this hour. A stunning diplomatic breakdown that could have huge implications for the future of Ukraine, for
European security, and indeed for President Zelenskyy. Let's get more on what we saw unfold the last hour, that little meeting between Presidents
Zelenskyy and President Trump that just I have no words. I was left gobsmacked really.
Let's get the reaction from the Czech Republic who's really seen, who's been front and center in this war, who's seen it for firsthand. The Czech
Republic's Foreign Minister Jan Lipavsky joins me now. Foreign Minister, let me get your sense of what you saw. It turned into pretty much a
shouting match. Your take.
[14:40:27]
JAN LIPAVSKY, FOREIGN MINISTER, CZECH REPUBLIC: Hello and thank you very much for having me. Of course, this is unpleasant situation and such
meetings which should happen behind the closed door. I would like to say that European security is something which most European countries has on
its mind and heart, and we will continue support Ukraine because we don't want to be influenced by Russian imperialism. And the numbers are saying
so. We are delivering more humanitarian aid and more military deliveries than U.S. side. The number is around $250 billion.
So -- and this weekend will take place, meeting in London. And European Council also critically -- pretty near, so I would expect strong results
from those meetings.
SOARES: Before we get to that, let's take a step back and just dissect what we saw. We saw the -- actually, let's go to the White House. Stay with us
for a minute. I want to go to the White House. We'll come back to Lindsey Graham speaking. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): -- Ukraine eight or nine times since the war started. I understand the consequences of Putin's actions against Ukraine.
I appreciate what the Ukrainian people have done. They fought like tigers At the end of the day I was hoping that this minerals deal which would be
transformative in the relationship would go over well.
I talked to Zelenskyy this morning. Don't take the bait. President Trump was in a very good mood last night. Somebody asked me, am I embarrassed
about Trump, I have never been more proud of the president. I was very proud of J.D. Vance standing up for our country. We want to be helpful.
What I saw in the Oval Office was disrespectful, and I don't know if we can ever do business with Zelenskyy again. I don't -- I think most Americans
saw a guy that they would not want to go on business with. The way he handled the meeting, the way he confronted the President was just over the
top. So, I think the relationship between Ukraine and America is important, vitally important, but can Zelenskyy do a deal with the United States after
what I saw? I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quick question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did President Trump say to you? You just had lunch with President Trump. What did he say to you about his interactions
and whether --
GRAHAM: He was shocked. He was very upbeat. I told Zelenskyy we'll talk about security guarantees. We'll talk about ceasefires and how the war
ends. This is a process. You have a new relationship with America. A $500 billion, half a trillion dollar deal, that President Trump is proud of that
gives us an interest worth defending. Let's talk about the positive. But he was terrible at Munich, Zelenskyy, and I think he has made it almost
impossible to sell to the American people that he's a good investment, that he is a good business partner.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you -- do you regret -- Senator, do you --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One at a time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, do you regret --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One at a time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Do you think President Zelenskyy needs to resign to resume these peace talks?
GRAHAM: He either needs to resign and send somebody over that we can do business with, or he needs to change.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you -- do you regret --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
GRAHAM: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: You've been listening there to Linsey Graham outside the White House. As you heard there, he said to the Ukraine eight or nine times. We
know -- he said the Ukrainians have fought like tigers, and you know hoping really -- he was really hoping for this minerals deal. And he told
Zelenskyy prior to this meeting with President Trump, don't take the bait.
And he said he's proud of J.D. Vance. He's proud of President Trump. He says we want to be helpful, but what he saw today between President Trump
and President Zelenskyy and what we heard from President Zelenskyy, he said, was disrespectful. He said he wants to have a relationship with
Ukraine and wants a deal. The deal I don't know. He went on to say that Trump prior to this was upbeat to meeting Zelenskyy, and that Lindsey
Graham told him that this is a process. We'll get to the security guarantees.
But what he saw from Zelenskyy made it almost impossible you see to sell to the American people that he is a good investor. Either Zelenskyy needs to
resign or something needs to change.
In that meeting, as we told you, we also -- we heard -- we heard President Trump saying you're not acting at all thankful. We said you are not in a
good position. You are gambling World War III. You -- have you said thank you at least once, said J.D. Vance?
[14:45:30]
Well, on that let me bring you the tweet from President Zelenskyy. If we can bring up -- I'm going to ask my team to bring that tweet up because
President Zelenskyy took to Twitter in Ukrainian and in English and he said thank you America, thank you for your support, thank you for the visit.
Thank you POTUS, Congress, and the American people. Ukraine needs just and lasting peace and we are working exactly for that.
But now we are hearing from Lindsey Graham who too seems to be offended by the way -- by the way what we heard and the way that Zelenskyy reacted to
that. I was speaking before Lindsey Graham was speaking there to the Czech Republic's Foreign Minister Jan Lipavsky who joins me now.
Foreign Minister, I'm hoping that you're still with me. Let me pick up really what we heard there. He -- it makes it almost impossible as Lindsey
Graham said, to sell to American people that he is a -- he's a good investor. He either needs to resign or something needs to change. Where
does this leave President Zelenskyy and indeed Europe? Will you be calling for President Zelenskyy to step down?
LIPAVSKY: Absolutely not. President Zelenskyy is democratically elected president of Ukraine with more than 70 percent votes for him and he still
has support of his people, the people who fight every day and night for Ukraine security and for European security. So, we need to find a way how
to have this -- how to how this dialogue could continue.
SOARES: How then do you find a way? You were telling me that the European leaders are meeting I I believe here in the U.K. We saw President Macron.
We saw Prime Minister Starmer really pushing for those security guarantees, a diplomatic perch, a diplomatic dance all week very well handled from both
sides. How can they turn this around? Because as we've heard there from Lindsey Graham, they don't think they can be -- this can be done because of
obviously the bad blood between President Trump and President Zelenskyy. How can you turn this around at this juncture?
LIPAVSKY: Europe must develop a strategy how to contain Russia, how to contain Russian imperialism. It was last 75 years which proved that it's
better for the U.S. to be part of such a security architecture to contain Russia or Soviet Union rather not to be part of that. So, again, there will
be meeting in London. There will be Europe Council and we need a strong European leadership on this matter.
SOARES: Yes. We shall see what happens this weekend, whether that can be turned around and resolved. As we heard from President Trump, he can come
back, he said, when he is ready for peace. Minister, I really appreciate you taking time to speak to us. Thank you very much indeed.
LIPAVSKY: Thank you very much. Goodbye from Prague.
SOARES: Thank you. We will continue following this breaking news. I want to get the very latest on Pope Francis because Pope Francis has suffered a
sudden episode of breathing difficulty today, we're being told, and was put on a breathing machine. That is the latest word we are hearing from the
Vatican. Vatican officials of the Pope remained alert and oriented at all times. The 88-year-old pontiff has been in the hospital as you know in Rome
for two weeks receiving treatment for double pneumonia.
Our Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb has been across this story from the onset. He joins me now. And Christopher, I was under the impression
from what we were hearing from the Vatican that he was doing fairly better. What is -- what is the very latest that you're hearing here?
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, this is a setback for Pope Francis tonight. As you said, the last few days had been news of
improvement slowly, slowly. But today we were told the pope had this respiratory or breathing crisis. We're told it was a bronchospasm which is
a tightening of the bronchi. And then followed by an episode of vomiting, and he needed to be put on this breathing machine. It's a non-invasive
breathing machine but it is clearly a sort of an intensification of the need for oxygen the pope is suffering from or needing.
Francis has been in the hospital now since February the 14th, 15 days, the longest stint he's had in hospital. He is battling pneumonia in both of his
lungs. He's 88 years old. He has breathing and respiratory difficulties. And so, we were told by the doctors there would be good days and bad days.
The one bit of good news is the pope remained alert and was able to correspond or cooperate with the medical therapy.
Obviously, there's a lot of concern and anxiety here in the Vatican. And behind me you can see people or perhaps hear the prayers that are about to
start for the pope. They've been taking place every evening for him. And tonight they'll be led by Cardinal Victor Fernandez, the compatriot of the
pope from Argentina, who leads the Vatican's Doctrine Office. He will lead the prayers tonight after this uh concerning development.
We are going to expect to have an update from the Vatican on Saturday morning. Isa?
[14:50:42]
SOARES: I appreciate it. Christopher Lamb there with the very latest on Pope Francis. Thank you very much, Christopher. Do stay right here. We'll
be back on more breaking news after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Let's get the very latest on the breaking new we've been following on and bring in my colleague Nick Paton Walsh who is in Ukraine. And Nick,
all week, you and I have been looking ahead this meeting, talking about the potential for this deal. What could this mean for Ukraine? What could this
mean for European security? And then we have no deal. President Zelenskyy told to leave. He can come back when he's ready for peace.
In the last few minutes, Senator Lindsey Graham saying, you know, it's almost impossible to sell to American people that he is a good investor.
Either he needs to resign or something needs to change. What -- just give us a sense of the mood this hour in Ukraine.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, the -- it's really hard to overstate the consequences of the last two
hours in Washington here for a country where every night, last night, 200 drones were fired at it. Since Trump called Zelenskyy dictator, 47
civilians have been killed by Russian strikes, 222 people have been injured. This is an existential question.
And I think that's the heart of the disparity here between the mood that Zelenskyy brought to that meeting with Trump and the kind of President that
Trump wanted to be speaking to. He'd had Macron, France President Emmanuel Macron, U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer over the past week being very
ingratiating, setting the tone for this meeting. But he didn't find it seemed the same kind of flexibility or even dotage from Zelenskyy.
And it was clear when vice president J.D. Vance spoke up. Remember, he's been in many of these key meetings over the past weeks but not been vocal,
that things began to at very rapidly. And it was extraordinary to hear President Trump say you don't sound very thankful, and that isn't very
nice. I mean, he even did an impression of Zelenskyy during that meeting saying I don't want to ceasefire.
And I think that's a suggestion that there is this personal acrimony between the two, potentially a legacy from the first term in which
Zelenskyy's "perfect phone call" as Trump described it was involved in Trump's first impeachment.
So, a lot messy here but a real sense I think of utter shock and conation here in Ukraine. Because remember this may impact front lines and cause
even greater loss of life and maybe even significant change in Ukrainian sovereignty.
[14:55:38]
SOARES: Nick Paton Walsh there for us in Ukraine, thanks very much, Nick. And before we just wrap up, I want to just bring you up today with some of
the support that we've been getting, unwavering support as one as the Estonians called it, for President Zelenskyy. We've also heard from Donald
Tusk saying, dear Zelenskyy, dear Ukrainian friends, you are not alone.
We've also heard from Josep Borrell of the -- of the E.U., Trump and Vance have put on a disgraceful show. This is on X, by the way. I am ashamed of
that behavior. The U.S. deserves something better. The Free Worl must support Ukraine. I was and I am still with President Zelenskyy.
Sweden stands with Ukraine. You are not only fighting for your freedom but also Europe. Slava Ukraini.
That does it for this hour. Do stay right here. We'll be back in just a few minutes.
END
